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Murray Trial - 30 September - Day 4 - Discussion

. The memeber of the defense that got in trouble was gonna be on Piers Morgan tonight aswell but, I guess that not gonna happen now! lol What a MORON! The Judge will be meeting with him to tell him the hell off basically. But, I doubt he will be held in contempt, proably just get a warning because the gag wasn't issued yet. He'll just tell him he should have known better! BOOO!
 
wendy2004 said:
At work and can't sort thru my notes right now to do the math or search back thru the thread at the mo. Do you mean 3-5 minutes from when the 911 call ENDED or 305 minutes from when Alvarez first started talking with the operator? If it was 3-5 minutes after the911 call ended, that could be an issue. Shouldn't have taken 3-5 minutes to put MJ on the floor unless they moved him back to up to the bed for some reason.
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After it ended. Call was made at 12:21. Paramedics arrived at 12:27. The call was shorter than that, maybe a minute or two, I think. That's why I think this is an issue.
 
what worries me is that according to the law the jurors can decide to dismiss the entire testimony of a witness if they believied he lied about something on the stand. The defense will for sure use this timeline error between alberto and the paramedic to get the jurors to disregard all of albertos testimony which would be really bad.....​
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I don't know why some r worried , the jury during delibrations will be provided with transcripts of the testimonies that took place and they will look at the full picture . OK, let's assume Alvares can't be trusted and his account of what happened that day was not really trustful, but what if they have other evidence supporting Alvarez account ?


what was the most damagin claims by Alvarez?


Murray performing CPR on bed . Confirmed by the 911 and the paramedic who saw them relocating him to the floor.

Murray asking him to bring a bag so he could put vials in it . That was not true ? ok, has not the paramedic just testified he saw Murray collecting various drugs from the bedroom while holding a bag? was not he asked to confirm that no one but Murray was in the room when they left ? did not the police find the bag in a closet in a different room and it was Murray who told them where to find it? did not one of the paramedic testify he saw vials of lidocaine on the floor? those vials were not present when detectives arrived at the house .

the only conclusion the jury will reach is going to be Murray did collect the vials , did hide them , and Alvarez was trustful . Why r you worried ?
 
it would've been better if they had lost gorjian or gorgiant or whatever he calls himself, wish he would've made the mistake of doing interviews.. I'm really scared of him, in less than a minute he called michael a drug addict. idk I just dont like he looks like he's into hard drugs himself.
 
I think AA is most likely mistaken, I don't think he lied, it was a very stressful situation. Most important factors here are the time lines when phone calls were made.

I'm more concerned that the prosecution didn't question the paramedic more on the iv bag.
 
The Paramedic comfirmed alot of what Alaverz testifled too aswell. Let's not forget that and the things he did comfirm was far more serious and damaging to the defense! Chernofff implied Mj was an addict since the opening statement this isn't anything new that just happened today.
 
they should've asked him about his opinion on how long he thought michael was already dead/in the situation he was in when he first arrived. that would've been a good question to ask, but they didn't
 
Thank you all for the updates. I am at work so if it weren't for you guys I wouldn't know what was going on!! It is very appreciated. Thank you for taking the time:flowers:
 
OnirMJ said:
I said that Alberto and Conrad moved him to the floor during the conversation. Then Faheem entered. Then Conrad asked someone to help him with CPR. And that in that time 12:27 paramedics entered the room and saw something (maybe Conrad tryed to move him somewhere else, not back to bed, so he lift him up!) That is what paramedics saw.
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I agree with this. Maybe after unsuccessful CPR Murray moved Jackson and then paramedics arrived. Or...

OnirMJ said:
Alberto did not lie. I'm sure 100%. He was talking on the phone at 12:22 and paramedics arrived at 12:27. Only logical thing to me would be that the paramedic saw something wrong (I'm not saying that he is lying).
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This!
 
Faheem Muhammad also said that MJ was on the floor when he entered the room. He said that the first thing he saw was MJ's feet behind the bed. And he arrived before paramedics!
 
Soundmind, the problem is, if the jury decides to disregard his entire testimony, that wouldn't be good. His testimony is important. Not the only important one, but still. Just listening to the 911 call ... when the operator says that they have to get him to the floor, it doesn't sound like he then actually places the phone between his shoulder and ear and the tone of his voice also doesn't change the way you would expect when lifting a body from a bed. I don't know, maybe he did get the timeline wrong, but like I also said, he was very elaborate about all the details of this in his testimony. Getting the timeline wrong wouldn't surprise me all that much, since it was a traumatic experience, but I don't know what the jury will think.
 
The interview with Chernoff's partner is on the Today Show's website. He said that MJ was addicted to Propofol, that Murray was trying to wean MJ off Propofol, and that Murray recorded Michael to try to show him what he was like under the influence. IMO, it was like trying to get Murray's version of events out, and hopefully to the jury, without putting Murray on the stand.
 
"Faheem Muhammad also said that MJ was on the floor when he entered the room. He said that the first thing he saw was MJ's feet behind the bed. And he arrived before paramedics! "


but the defense is gonna argue amir williams, muhammed and alvarez created this storys to hurt murray, hence all questions about meeting at lawyers office together on august 31.
 
twinklEE said:
they should've asked him about his opinion on how long he thought michael was already dead/in the situation he was in when he first arrived. that would've been a good question to ask, but they didn't
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Agree. but theres the second medic to testify so im hoping the comment in the prelim came from that medic. if not imo the pros didnt push the point out there enough other than when the medic first commented about it being off interms of it didnt look lije it just happened
 
Faheem Muhammad also said that MJ was on the floor when he entered the room. He said that the first thing he saw was MJ's feet behind the bed. And he arrived before paramedics!

So if Alberto lied that means that Faheem lied too!
 
the second emt is gonna testify as well right? Or am I mistaken? So let's wait what he has to say
 
911 was called too late and he never told anyone about the propofol. He is a doctor that didn't do anything right that day. The jury should think about how about if that happened to their loved one what happened to Michael. People put their trust in doctors and that was broken.

Here is a paramedic basically saying that if it just happened they could have saved Michael. It didn't just happen. Michael was dead and there was nothing they could have done. It makes me so mad how much time was wasted.
 
Milka said:
After it ended. Call was made at 12:21. Paramedics arrived at 12:27. The call was shorter than that, maybe a minute or two, I think. That's why I think this is an issue.
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Hi Milka, I share your concerns about the testimonies from Michael's staff. Not only Alberto, but also Faheem (he said that he arrived before the paramedics and saw MJ's feet on the floor, didn't he ?) , and I also found some things that Kai said a bit weird. I don't know, I could be misinterpreting some things, though.

I'm not worried about the outcome for Murray because the important things are confirmed by other witnesses.
 
OnirMJ said:
Faheem Muhammad also said that MJ was on the floor when he entered the room. He said that the first thing he saw was MJ's feet behind the bed. And he arrived before paramedics!

So if Alberto lied that means that Faheem lied too!
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That's what defense want to do. They are implying that Faheem, Michael Amir and Alberto are made up the whole story later and went to the Police 2 month after MJ died. I have to admit that it really made people wonder because Alberto is so elaborate how he put MJ down the floor. What happened before the EMT people came in during those time?
 
they should've asked him about his opinion on how long he thought michael was already dead/in the situation he was in when he first arrived. that would've been a good question to ask, but they didn't​
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calls for speculation = sustained :mello:

they did good by not asking him .

so far the prosecution did not present their own theory of what happened to MJ which is really odd, we did not know what they think took place, we who have been following this case for two years now , what about the juros? Their case revolves around impeaching Murray's statement which he gave to the police, they believe that's enough to prove he was guilty . If they can't not rule out self-injection the defence does have a 50% chance of wining this case. In other words they will leave many unanswered questions if they don't have a theory .
 
Cinnamon234 said:
This is so hard to listen too.

The blame here lies with Murray and no one else.

The EMT's responded quickly. Michael COULD HAVE been saved, but Murray waited too damn long to call for help.

I blame him and no one else.
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I knew it. This is my main problem with CM. He took all that time and tried to save his own ass instead of Michael. :(
 
bouee said:
Hi Milka, I share your concerns about the testimonies from Michael's staff. Not only Alberto, but also Faheem (he said that he arrived before the paramedics and saw MJ's feet on the floor, didn't he ?) , and I also found some things that Kai said a bit weird. I don't know, I could be misinterpreting some things, though.

I'm not worried about the outcome for Murray because the important things are confirmed by other witnesses.
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Yeah, things are a bit weird. I know there are a lot of other facts, but the testimonies of the people who worked for Michael are important too. I have to check Faheem's testimony now, I translated it yesterday, but my head was already spinning while I was doing it, so I don't remember that part. If he said the same as Alvarez, then yeah, don't know, with other testimony, like from the EMT's, that might not really affect the outcome, but it could confuse the jury.
 
Milka said:
Soundmind, the problem is, if the jury decides to disregard his entire testimony, that wouldn't be good. His testimony is important. Not the only important one, but still. Just listening to the 911 call ... when the operator says that they have to get him to the floor, it doesn't sound like he then actually places the phone between his shoulder and ear and the tone of his voice also doesn't change the way you would expect when lifting a body from a bed. I don't know, maybe he did get the timeline wrong, but like I also said, he was very elaborate about all the details of this in his testimony. Getting the timeline wrong wouldn't surprise me all that much, since it was a traumatic experience, but I don't know what the jury will think.
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I don't think they will disregard the entire testimony. Even if they did, what the paramedic just said is still there. And he basically said the same things (MJ on the bed, Murray lied, hid vials).
 
calls for speculation = sustained :mello:
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the comment was made in the prelim though.

i wonder about the pros theory on what happened and whether they will even present one. is it more dangerous to present one that the defence can pick apart or is it worse not to have one at all. after all interms of the charge. its about showing murrays negligence re the diprivan. do the actual details/theory matter so much. i dunno. tbh if i were a jurror id want a theory. so i can look at the defence theory and the pros one. but then again the case is about showing negligence not trying to show exactly what happened interms of how the dip got into mj
 
There was some insistance with the time records:

- AA phone's records show call to 911 at 12:20.

- Beverly Hills department receives call at 12:21.

- Call is transferred to Senneff's station at 12: 22.

Maybe these different times can explain the issue of the moving.
 
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