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Murray Trial - 30 September - Day 4 - Discussion

twinklEE said:
that's somethign that crossed my mind as well, why are their testimony's so different?
Maybe someone got it wrong as so much was happening?>

I hate Gorjian the most so far, he seems to be worse than flanagan, why didn't they let chernoff handle this?
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I thought he was the best of the defense so far. He didn't ask the exact same questions as the DA for twenty minutes.
 
alvarez and medic has different story regarding when MJ was moved from bed
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it's actually worse for Murray because proper CPR was delayed for an additional 6 minutes
 
It seems to me Alberto messed up in a moment when they put Mike on the floor. Hope defence won't prove he was lying at all because of this......
 
The report from the paramedics posted on the previous page said that they found Michael on the floor, and CPR was being performed, right?
 
He can call Michael an addict all day. But he can't refute what the guy said about Murray
 
I can't look through the thread, for some reason the board is extremely slow for me today, but I just saw on the last page this has been discussed. Alvarez said that they put Michael on the floor during the 911 call, and now Senneff said that Michael was still on the bed when they arrived. This is disturbing, I don't think Senneff would lie, but why would Alvarez be lying? He had a pretty elaborate story about this too, as far as I remember. What he did with the phone, how he expected Michael to be heavy, but when they picked him up, he wasn't ... Something is wrong there, but why? And what does that mean for the trial?
 
JMie said:
is it possible that everything was happening so quickly that while they were moving him and Alvarez was on the phone with 911 the paramedics already arrived and were entering the room? who was the person Alvarez talked to? was it one of the paramedics that arrived or someone from 911 office (sorry don't know what whose ppl are called)?
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Well technically Alvarez was calling 911 to get help, so I don't think it's theoretically possible (I may be wrong) that the paramedics managed to arrive inside the house while he was still on the phone asking for help... that's what makes it strange for me. Unless they moved him twice, but still that can't be the case, I'm confused on that.
 
Cross examination by The Defense


-The EMT said that Michael didn't well to him. Says MJ looked very underweight, he was able to see his ribs, looked pale and looked like someone with a chronic disease.

-The Defense asked the EMT if Michael resembled someone who looked like he could have been a long time drug addict. EMT stated that drug addicts can look like anything. He said he's seen overweight drug addicts, skinny addicts,etc. ..., but said MJ just looked like someone who had a chronic disease.

- The EMT stated that he asked Murray three times if MJ was in good health before he responded. EMT stated that Murray claimed that MJ did not have any underlying healthy problems. EMT stated that he found that hard to believe because of the ivy in the room and MJ's general condition.

-EMT stated that Murray said that he did give MJ a sedative to sleep, but never mentioned that he gave him Propofol
 
I don't care about what's good for the defense, I only care about the prosecution, to hell with Gorjian and his aggressive approach, where the heck did Murray get him from? Wasn't he the one working as an intern for Garagos when Garagos was still Michael's defense back in 2004?
Or was that someone else?
 
Showman74 said:
They are defending a killer and slashing the reputation of our angel with lies...
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... because this is their job as a lawyer and part of the constitutional democracy. Defending someone as a lawyer does not necessarily mean that they really believe their client is in the right. Please don't confuse this.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
all these feckers trying to help get a killer off deserve to go to hell
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I'm sure some of the defense in the back of their minds know of Murray's guilt; they simply have to do their job in order to make it a truly fair trial. It's difficult to bear, I know, but it keeps the system balanced.
 
Mariuana said:
It seems to me Alberto messed up in a moment when they put Mike on the floor. Hope defence won't prove he was lying at all because of this......
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I noticed that too . Alvarez also said yesterday that he was in the car with Amir when he went from carolwood too UCLA . Amir testified that he was with the 3 children and with faheem in the car but has never specified that alverez was with them . What do you think ??
 
as far as I'm concerned Murray can take all his lawyers to prison and hell afterwards with him especially this gorgiant or whatever his name is. from the looks of it, he's the one who looks like a drug addict IMO
 
JMie said:
is it possible that everything was happening so quickly that while they were moving him and Alvarez was on the phone with 911 the paramedics already arrived and were entering the room?
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No, the paramedics didn't arrive during the 911 call, they arrived a few minutes later.
 
Samtkaninchen said:
... because this is their job as a lawyer and part of the constitutional democracy. Defending someone as a lawyer does not necessarily mean that they really believe their client is in the right. Please don't confuse this.
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I understand that... and I've seen defence lawyers in the past do their job in a correct and normal matter even when they were wrong... but these guys are acting like bitches, especially Chernoff who makes me feel uncomfortable everytime he talks and looks at the witness, he truly has an evil streak to him and that has nothing to do with his job, it's his personality! He's a bad guy!
 
When one calls 911, rescue vehicles are dispatched immediately, regardless of whether or not one is still on the phone with them. Very typically, the phone is only hung up when EMTs arrive. So we are talking a VERY few minutes here, or maybe seconds. The EMT said Murray and Alvarez were in the process of moving Michael to the floor, i.e. upper part of his body still on the bed. It's not really a discrepancy, or if it is, a very minor one?
 
It seems to me Alberto messed up in a moment when they put Mike on the floor. Hope defence won't prove he was lying at all because of this......
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it will be up to the jury , he did not lie , he got the timing mixed , the most important revelation was Murray hiding the vials which the paramedic confirmed today. Again it was stupid to remind the jurors that for additional 6 minutes MJ was still in the bed and not receiving adequet CPR.
 
Milka said:
I can't look through the thread, for some reason the board is extremely slow for me today, but I just saw on the last page this has been discussed. Alvarez said that they put Michael on the floor during the 911 call, and now Senneff said that Michael was still on the bed when they arrived. This is disturbing, I don't think Senneff would lie, but why would Alvarez be lying? He had a pretty elaborate story about this too, as far as I remember. What he did with the phone, how he expected Michael to be heavy, but when they picked him up, he wasn't ... Something is wrong there, but why? And what does that mean for the trial?
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I think it means he got the timing wrong. It's not as if he lied about moving him, he did move him just maybe not when he said. The question is then would the jury think he was mistaken with some of his other testimony like having time to hide the drugs, did Murray pull out the line from Michael's ankle as the paramedic still saw it in his leg.

However the fact he had the line in his ankle a saline bag with propofol in it seems to suggest that only a doctor would do that. Every witness has said that he's tried to hide drugs why would he do that if not for a cover up, but the Prosecution need to prove Murray gave the propofol.

How are the defence claiming Michael gave himself the propofol? is it by mixing it with his drink? Can you take it that way?
 
Alberto didn't lie. Yes he's just mixing up the time. Also remember Alberto said he was holding MJ from the ankles, and the paramedic said MJ's feet were on the ground.

So Alberto could have said to Murray " we need to get him to the floor" , hold his ankles and got them to the floor and though that Murray did the same as well. It seems like Murray was lagging behind. Alberto got the part he's holding (MJ's feet / lower half) on the floor.
 
Everyone was trying to save Michael Jackson's life but Conrad Murray; because Murray knew he
had already killed Michael Jackson some time ago.
 
ivy said:
Alberto didn't lie. Yes he's just mixing up the time. Also remember Alberto said he was holding MJ from the ankles, and the paramedic said MJ's feet were on the ground.

So Alberto could have said to Murray " we need to get him to the floor" , hold his ankles and got them to the floor and though that Murray did the same as well. It seems like Murray was lagging behind. Alberto got the part he's holding (MJ's feet / lower half) on the floor.
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Maybe ... but to me in his testimony it sounded like they both actually were lifting him together while he was still on the phone. With him saying that he was suprised that Michael wasn't as heavy as he thought he'd be. With just lifting the feet and putting them on the floor, that statement doesn't make much sense. But maybe he just got the timeline wrong and hopefully the jury will see it that way.
 
Showman74 said:
Well technically Alvarez was calling 911 to get help, so I don't think it's theoretically possible (I may be wrong) that the paramedics managed to arrive inside the house while he was still on the phone asking for help... that's what makes it strange for me. Unless they moved him twice, but still that can't be the case, I'm confused on that.
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At some point Senneff did say that the caller was still on the line, I think at least when they set off.
 
myosotis said:
At some point Senneff did say that the caller was still on the line, I think at least when they set off.
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Actually, they did hang up at some point, before the EMT's arrived. The operator even mentions that they are on their way and will be there soon and to call back if they need more help.
 
Gag order issued. A partner from Chernoff's firm in Houston was commenting on the case to the Today Show.
 
ivy said:
Alberto didn't lie. Yes he's just mixing up the time. Also remember Alberto said he was holding MJ from the ankles, and the paramedic said MJ's feet were on the ground.

So Alberto could have said to Murray " we need to get him to the floor" , hold his ankles and got them to the floor and though that Murray did the same as well. It seems like Murray was lagging behind. Alberto got the part he's holding (MJ's feet / lower half) on the floor.
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Alverez said that he moved Jackson on the floor during 911 call, and as far as I remember during cross-examination he was asked where did he put phone and he said that he was holding phone between neck and shoulder!

Edit: BTW I agree Alberto didn't lie...
 
Whether or not Alberto mixed up some things regarding to the time line it still doesnt take away the fact that the testimonies so far have been expremely damaging.
 
I think that Conrad & Alberto moved MJ to the floor, just like Alberto said. Because it is impossible that paramedics arrived in the room while Alberto was stiil on the phone with the operator. That was in 12:22 and the paramedics arrived in the room in 12:27. I think that while they (Conrad & Alberto) were giving MJ CPR they tried to move MJ again (legs on the floor and Conrad holding Michael's torzo). And that in that time paramedics arrived.

Also Faheem M. said that he arrived in the room before paramedics and that at that time MJ was already on the floor! And that Conrad asked him and Faheem to asist him with CPR before paramedics had arrived.

I think that no one is lying.
 
diana79 said:
The report from the paramedics posted on the previous page said that they found Michael on the floor, and CPR was being performed, right?
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Yes, it says "found supine on the floor" (lying down face up). So is it Alvarez who is wrong, or the paramedic? Alvarez only has to remember one emergency call, whereas the EMT must handle hundreds.
 
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