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Murray's manslaughter charge hangs on voicemail evidence

Victoria83 said:
I think the "Michael was a drug-addict" story stopped in its tracks when no opiates were found in his system. Don't think this will be an issue.

I think it will be incredibly easy to prove that Murray was "totally negligent." He gave Michael a drug at HOME that should only be used in a hospital or clinic setting. And after that, he neglected to tell EMTs what he'd given Michael. I think the charges should have been even higher.

No one knows for sure if there were or were not "others" involved. Murray was the last doctor standing, and I'm sure he'll take the fall for this. If there were "others," that info might come out in a civil suit. No way to know at this point, though.

My opinion is that it will be very, very easy to convince twelve people that Murray was totally negligent.
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MJ was not a drug addict but he was still a addict if that makes sense. Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep

So because of this YES MJ needed a intervention. This is the only way his life could have been saved. Get off the propofol and find more natural ways to get sleep. MJ was a grown man though, so he probably woud not have voluntered to do so. He would have had to be forced to do so which in my opinion would have been best for him and his life and kids. Get him in a clinic that treats addiction and insomia where they could time help him get sleep without having to use propofol.
 
RockWithMichael4eva said:
Funny you should mention this because at the begging when Michael First passed The LAPD and DA thought Murray was using A Say now Phone plan...Which is a throw away prepaid kind of phone plan. GO Figure?
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On the inventory of seized items, attached to the search warrant for Murray's office, '1 Cricket phone receipt' is listed.

May or may not mean something. May or may not even have been his...but it raised enough of a red flag for them to take it and (I'd assume) look into.



There are just so many things I want answers to.
 
BabeBeMine said:
MJ was not a drug addict but he was still a addict if that makes sense. Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep

So because of this YES MJ needed a intervention. This is the only way his life could have been saved. Get off the propofol and find more natural ways to get sleep. MJ was a grown man though, so he probably woud not have voluntered to do so. He would have had to be forced to do so which in my opinion would have been best for him and his life and kids. Get him in a clinic that treats addiction and insomia where they could time help him get sleep without having to use propofol.
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If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you know for sure he demanded or even begged for propofol?
 
BabeBeMine said:
MJ was not a drug addict but he was still a addict if that makes sense. Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep

So because of this YES MJ needed a intervention. This is the only way his life could have been saved. Get off the propofol and find more natural ways to get sleep. MJ was a grown man though, so he probably woud not have voluntered to do so. He would have had to be forced to do so which in my opinion would have been best for him and his life and kids. Get him in a clinic that treats addiction and insomia where they could time help him get sleep without having to use propofol.
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I do think he was very troubled with insomnia and this lead him to some desperate measures. It is unfortunate, but that part is true. He clearly knew what the drug was and as someone here pointed out he had a PDR and many medical books, so he absolutely had to know this.
 
BabeBeMine said:
MJ was not a drug addict but he was still a addict if that makes sense. Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep

So because of this YES MJ needed a intervention. This is the only way his life could have been saved. Get off the propofol and find more natural ways to get sleep. MJ was a grown man though, so he probably woud not have voluntered to do so. He would have had to be forced to do so which in my opinion would have been best for him and his life and kids. Get him in a clinic that treats addiction and insomia where they could time help him get sleep without having to use propofol.
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It amazes me you know so much about what Michael was thinking! I wish i had the ability to read peoples minds!!!!!!!!! :mello:

Dont state things as facts when you dont know this for certain please!
 
BabeBeMine said:
Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep
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You dont know that Michael demanded anything. We dont know what went on in that house that morning.

And its still odd that Michael would want propofol (which does not give you rest BTW) hours before having to go to rehearsal?
 
BabeBeMine said:
MJ was not a drug addict but he was still a addict if that makes sense. Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep

So because of this YES MJ needed a intervention. This is the only way his life could have been saved. Get off the propofol and find more natural ways to get sleep. MJ was a grown man though, so he probably woud not have voluntered to do so. He would have had to be forced to do so which in my opinion would have been best for him and his life and kids. Get him in a clinic that treats addiction and insomia where they could time help him get sleep without having to use propofol.
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You absolutely do not KNOW this as fact. Michael is not here to tell us what really happened.

Michael was SMART. He had children. Those children were his LIFE, and I highly doubt that he would have risked himself that way. He had a lot of medical knowledge. He bought a lot of medical books, and he read them. That is confirmed.

What we have are Murray's (conflicting) statements, and the sudden appearance out of nowhere, a nurse who said "Michael begged for propofol." Oh, really? Let's just keep open minds, here, to any possibility?

Bottom line for me? Michael was not responsible for his death.
 
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babebemine said:
mj was not a drug addict but he was still a addict if that makes sense. Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of june 25 when mj demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep

so because of this yes mj needed a intervention. This is the only way his life could have been saved. Get off the propofol and find more natural ways to get sleep. Mj was a grown man though, so he probably woud not have voluntered to do so. He would have had to be forced to do so which in my opinion would have been best for him and his life and kids. Get him in a clinic that treats addiction and insomia where they could time help him get sleep without having to use propofol.
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wtf!!!!!
 
BabeBeMine said:
MJ was not a drug addict but he was still a addict if that makes sense. Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep

So because of this YES MJ needed a intervention. This is the only way his life could have been saved. Get off the propofol and find more natural ways to get sleep. MJ was a grown man though, so he probably woud not have voluntered to do so. He would have had to be forced to do so which in my opinion would have been best for him and his life and kids. Get him in a clinic that treats addiction and insomia where they could time help him get sleep without having to use propofol.
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How do you know for certain the timeline of when Michael "SUPPOSELY" asked for propofol?? you talk as if you were present. Secondly How do you know EXACTLY how an addict feelings are????????
 
Victoria83 said:
You absolutely do not KNOW this as fact. Michael is not here to tell us what really happened. This is a Michael Jackson board.

Michael was SMART. He had children. Those children were his LIFE, and I highly doubt that he would have risked himself that way. He had a lot of medical knowledge. He bought at lot of medical books, and he read them. That is confirmed.

What we have are Murray's (conflicting) statements, and the sudden appearance out of nowhere, a nurse who said "Michael begged for propofol." Oh, really? Let's just keep open minds, here, to any possibility?

Bottom line for me? Michael was not responsible for his death.
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Of course michael is not responsible, his death would have been labeled a suicide or an accidental overdose but the fact is someone else is responsible, hence homicide.

Why do people feel michael was a medical expert. Yes michael read alot and was knowledgeable but he did not go to medical school so I don't expect him to have known more than a medical expert. Yes he had kids and alot to look forward to in his future so that is why he probably sought for a doctor to monitor him because he did NOT want to die. I think there is more of a probability that this was all just negligence rather than a premediated murder. I am open minded so I have not closed off murder as an option but it just seems that michael trusted too many doctors and didn't have enough people who cared for his well being around.

What if michael did contact the nurse and asked fore propofol? what if he did ask murray for to give it to him? this would not justify murray's actions because he took an oath and disregarded it but I believe michael was familiar with propofol, it's alleged that he had a anesthesiologist traveling with him during the history tour to give him it so he probably felt comfortable with it as long as he was monitored. I'm also sure people warned him of the dangers but may have also had others telling him he'd be fine. If he had used it before and felt fine he may have felt it was ok to use it again. What he needed was a doctor to find him a safe and effective solution for his insomnia but people wanted to get paid so they did things out of greed.
 
It does not matter if Michael was a drug addict or not. The fact there were no drugs found in Michael's system at the time of death is all that matters. There was nothing in his body that was not put there by Conrad Murray so he won't even be able to go there in my view. A judge may not let him and if he wants to go there pull out that tox report where they found nothing in his system nothing not a damn thing. I am getting very tired of hearing that drug addict line because dammit it not true. If there was one drug in Michael's system that was not put there by Murray then Murray would not have been charged.
 
BabeBeMine said:
MJ was not a drug addict but he was still a addict if that makes sense. Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol. Thats a addict who feels there is no other way to get sleep. He needs propofol or else he won't be able to sleep

So because of this YES MJ needed a intervention. This is the only way his life could have been saved. Get off the propofol and find more natural ways to get sleep. MJ was a grown man though, so he probably woud not have voluntered to do so. He would have had to be forced to do so which in my opinion would have been best for him and his life and kids. Get him in a clinic that treats addiction and insomia where they could time help him get sleep without having to use propofol.
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Michael may have been dependent if that's what you mean but not a drug addict. He may have depnded on propofol to sleep when he felt there were no other options.

In the morning of June 25 murray claims michael demanded for propofol. Murray at this point may saying anything to save his behind so whe have to take things he says with a grain of salt. What is fact is that murray was the doctor and no patient demands that doctor to give them something they don't need and the doctor does it.

Michael did not need propofol and it should not have been in his body but he had lethal levels in his system along with other benzos. What doctor gives sedative after sedative and then anesthesia without the proper equipment and expects their patient to live?

Michael may have needed an intervention in the past but according to his autopsy he didn't have anything expect the drugs murray gave him to "sleep". I agree that michael did need help for his insomnia and if anyone who cared for him knew they would have probably tried to help but no one knew it was that serious. Only michael's medical friends knew of his troubles and they did nothing.
 
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And I do not care what Michael may of asked for as a doctor you don't give it
 
nena said:
Of course michael is not responsible, his death would have been labeled a suicide or an accidental overdose but the fact is someone else is responsible, hence homicide.

Why do people feel michael was a medical expert. Yes michael read alot and was knowledgeable but he did not go to medical school so I don't expect him to have known more than a medical expert. Yes he had kids and alot to look forward to in his future so that is why he probably sought for a doctor to monitor him because he did NOT want to die. I think there is more of a probability that this was all just negligence rather than a premediated murder. I am open minded so I have not closed off murder as an option but it just seems that michael trusted too many doctors and didn't have enough people who cared for his well being around.

What if michael did contact the nurse and asked fore propofol? what if he did ask murray for to give it to him? this would not justify murray's actions because he took an oath and disregarded it but I believe michael was familiar with propofol, it's alleged that he had a anesthesiologist traveling with him during the history tour to give him it so he probably felt comfortable with it as long as he was monitored. I'm also sure people warned him of the dangers but may have also had others telling him he'd be fine. If he had used it before and felt fine he may have felt it was ok to use it again. What he needed was a doctor to find him a safe and effective solution for his insomnia but people wanted to get paid so they did things out of greed.
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And what exactly are you talking about? There is a lot of people who don't go to college, but have great jobs, There are children who are in elementry school who read on a 12th grade level who aren't in High school, There are people who study the bible, but aren't ministers. The point I'm trying to make is that Michael of course didn't go to medical school, but he was very bright, You don't have to go to Medical school to become an expert at mastering something, Just look at Murray for an example, who actually went to medical school, who had 2 patients die under his care. I wouldn't consider him an expert at anything.

Secondly It doesn't matter IF Michael asked for propofol, I can ask everybody on this form to send me a million dollars, does that mean I will get it? It was alleged that Michael brought the elephant Mans bones too and what was the result of that?

How do we know for certain that people Warned Michael about propofol? If these people had this much concern about Michael using this, why didn't they go public with it? Michael didn't need a doctor to give him what he wanted, he needed somebody by his side who he can trust to give him the right advice, who didn't sh*t on him the second he blinked his eye.
 
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RockWithMichael4eva said:
And what exactly are you talking about? There is a lot of people who don't go to college, but have great jobs, There are children who are in elementry school who read on a 12th grade level who aren't in High school, There are people who study the bible, but aren't ministers. The point I'm trying to make is that Michael of course didn't go to medical school, but he was very bright, You don't have to go to Medical school to become an expert at mastering something, Just like at Murray for an example, actually went to medical school, who had 2 patients die under his care.

Secondly It doesn't matter IF Michael asked for propofol, I can ask everybody on this form to send me a million dollars, does that mean I will get it? It was alleged that Michael brought the elephant Mans bones too and what was the result of that?

How do we know for certain that people Warned Michael about propofol? If these people had this much concern about Michael using this, why didn't they go public with it? Michael didn't need a doctor to give him what he wanted, he needed somebody by his side who he can trust to give him the right advice, who didn't sh*t on him the second he blinked his eye.
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What do you mean what am I talking about… We go to specialist because they specialize in their medical fields. My point is Michael was NOT a doctor he did not have the experience of one and I don’t expect him to have the knowledge of one, it’s that simple. Michael went to doctors because they are professionals and he wasn’t.

Unfortunately patients do sometimes die under the care of a doctor but what did 2 of murray’s patients dies of? Murray is a cardiologist not an anesthesiologist, he had no business giving someone that stuff even if it isn’t illegal he knew it was unethical.

Secondly I AGREE, unless Michael held a gun to Murray’s head he should not have been given propofol.

What does the the elephant mans’s bones have to do with this, it wasn’t alleged that michael bought them, it was alleged that he was interested in buying them and the media ran with the story from there.

We don’t know for certain but I believe people did, why would all the doctor’s on tv who knew Michael lie? Michael knew a lot of people in the medical profession and I believe at least ONE person had to have told him it was dangerous like that nurse, I don’t see a motive for her lying.

I am wondering why people who knew didn’t come forward either, maybe they felt someone else would…maybe they wanted to protect his privacy while he was alive…maybe they just didn’t want to get caught up in it and maybe because some had no physical proof.

Like I said Michael needed a doctor to give him safe and effective help, someone who cared about his well being.
 
The same nurse who only came forward after Michael had already passed away to tell her side of the story of events what she claims took place, Why would I believe anything she says, specially since she knew exactly what was in Michael's house that made the cops look for propofol in his system, I wouldn't put my trust in her because clearly she knew what was going on all along and didn't come forward.

Murray punctured one of his patients heart in surgery and the patient died back in 2007 and was under investigation, and his second patient was michael.

My point in my post was that Michael read a lot and he was bright. We all know michael didn't go to medical school.
 
ensleyave said:
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you know for sure he demanded or even begged for propofol?
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Do you honestly think Dr Murray voluntarily said MJ i have some propofol for you, how about we try this. The fact that MJ has used it before and has asked others for it including the nurse months earlier, i think it's fair to say MJ after he could not sleep throught the night asked for it that morning.
 
RockWithMichael4eva said:
The same nurse who only came forward after Michael had already passed away to tell her side of the story of events what she claims took place, Why would I believe anything she says, specially since she knew exactly what was in Michael's house that made the cops look for propofol in his system, I wouldn't put my trust in her because clearly she knew what was going on all along and didn't come forward.

Murray punctured one of his patients heart in surgery and the patient died back in 2007 and was under investigation, and his second patient was michael.

My point in my post was that Michael read a lot and he was bright. We all know michael didn't go to medical school.
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Please stick to facts and don't throw accusations at Dr Murray from tabloids that isn't even true.

And for all who say that is defending him, dream on.
 
BabeBeMine said:
Do you honestly think Dr Murray voluntarily said MJ i have some propofol for you, how about we try this. The fact that MJ has used it before and has asked others for it including the nurse months earlier, i think it's fair to say MJ after he could not sleep throught the night asked for it that morning.
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Is it an established fact that Michael used propofol during History tour? I know there were some reports but are they 100% credible?

Another thing is that it is highly doubtable that Michael would survive 6 weeks with propofol looking at how he was "cured" by this doctor and at the level of Murray's professionalism (lack of).

We only know it from Murray that Michael asked for propofol, and now we know that Murray is not credible at all.
 
daisy said:
Is it an established fact that Michael used propofol during History tour? I know there were some reports but are they 100% credible?

Another thing is that it is highly doubtable that Michael would survive 6 weeks with propofol looking at how he was "cured" by this doctor and at the level of Murray's professionalism (lack of).

We only know it from Murray that Michael asked for propofol, and now we know that Murray is not credible at all.
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Yes, they even interviewed the doctor who declined to speak about it.

We don't know what Michael said on that last night. I think everyone is clear about that, but there are many on this forum who know he was looking for a doctor to administer this medication. To think otherwise is not rational at this point, but of course, you can believe what you need to believe.
 
Beachlover said:
Yes, they even interviewed the doctor who declined to speak about it.

We don't know what Michael said on that last night. I think everyone is clear about that, but there are many on this forum who know he was looking for a doctor to administer this medication. To think otherwise is not rational at this point, but of course, you can believe what you need to believe.
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No, it´s not about believing in "what I want" it´s exactly about finding out about what we know for sure.

If it´s not 100% proven Michael was using propofol before then we cannot really be sure that he was using this in June 2009.

We also know that it was extremely dangerous and Michael would have probably not survived each night being given propofol like this.

Which leads me to doubt about Michael using propofol for sure and especially asking for it, especially in the light of the facts that Murray is a proven liar.
 
Mj felt propofol was the only way he could sleep and that was it. Thats a addict feeling that there is no other solution and he knew it was not the right way to get sleep.
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and u know that how? u are taking what murray says as fact. murray bought the dip in may so what was mj using b4 that and in the years b4 that?.did mj not sleep for 12 years seeing as the last time he supp used it was on the history tour? if u are addicted u dont use it once in 10 years when u know u need to sleep so need to use something

In the morning of June 25 when MJ demanded the propofol.
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so u believe murray yet again. ok.
 
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I am getting very tired of hearing that drug addict line because dammit it not true. If there was one drug in Michael's system that was not put there by Murray then Murray would not have been charged.
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well said. im frankly sick of the media once again trying to rewrite history when it comes to mike. and the sad thing is some fans actually fall for it
 
Is it an established fact that Michael used propofol during History tour? I know there were some reports but are they 100% credible?
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who knows. what is classed as credible. if in fact u mean a doctor came out and said yes i gave it to him then no no one has.

nother thing is that it is highly doubtable that Michael would survive 6 weeks with propofol looking at how he was "cured" by this doctor and at the level of Murray's professionalism (lack of).
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i very much doubt he gave him it for 6 weeks as amounts of dip needed for 6 weeks havnt been found. considering how clueless murrray was theres no way he would have survived 6 weeks. wouldnt surprise me if murray used dip for the first time on june 25th or at least it was the first time he used dip with loz which is so dangerous
 
BabeBeMine said:
Do you honestly think Dr Murray voluntarily said MJ i have some propofol for you, how about we try this. The fact that MJ has used it before and has asked others for it including the nurse months earlier, i think it's fair to say MJ after he could not sleep throught the night asked for it that morning.
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So you are stating as fact that you were there on that night in question and witness all of this. If you have evidence to that fact. I highly suggest you inform the proper authorities.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
who knows. what is classed as credible. if in fact u mean a doctor came out and said yes i gave it to him then no no one has.
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Thanks, that´s why, if we`re looking for facts, this is not confirmed at all and I do not see the point of making a statement that Michael had a habit of using propofol, if it´s not even confirmed that he ever used that before?

elusive moonwalker said:
i very much doubt he gave him it for 6 weeks as amounts of dip needed for 6 weeks havnt been found. considering how clueless murrray was theres no way he would have survived 6 weeks. wouldnt surprise me if murray used dip for the first time on june 25th or at least it was the first time he used dip with loz which is so dangerous
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Absolutely.
That´s why I am not giving credibility to this doctor. Apparently, he wants to shift responsibility to Michael talking about this "dependence" or "addiction" to propofol.
Btw is ti possible to "addict" to propofol :unsure:?

Even for developing psychological addiction Michael would need a series of nights with it being administered. But then, I think, Michael would be gone much earlier.
 
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