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Official MJJC Support Thread - Japanese Tsunami

Webbie said:
Update from a Belgian reporter who is there at the minute:

NEW UPDATE: German rescue workers are withdrawing because it simply is too dangerous! They argue that the Japanese government minimalizes the dangers.

"The radioactivity is much higher than what the Japanese prime minister says. It's too dangerous to stay here. We leave right away.

"The German government calls on his rescue crue to leave Japan as soon as possible."
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Ok, this says it all. "Right away" in the context of radiation says it all. Who knows what's really going on there, I'm sure this will kill more people than the earthquake and the tsunami in the long run. It's man-made. Will we learn?

bouee, yes, 2 days ago and that they managed to put out the fire. And then ... nothing, crickets.

Building them is insane, building them in seismic zones is above and beyond insane. They can't give us a worst case scenario, because nobody knows. And the worst case scenario is definitely worse than what the public is told (in general, not just now, aren't we always told how safe nuclear power plants are?).

The worst case scenario is so horrible that they would never tell us. I think I posted this yesterday, this is my worst case scenario (and that's only my opinion and doesn't have to happen as long as they can avoid meltdown, or if it's already happening stop it and as long as the protective shell remains intact AND the wind blows the radioactive cloud to the east) - if something similar like Tschernobyl happens in Fukushima AND the wind blows the cloud south ... there is Tokyo with 35 million people living in and around Tokyo. It's impossible to evacuate 35 million people. So one stupid reactor can potentially kill and/or make 35 million people sick (and more, it's not like there are no people between Fukushima and Tokyo and further down south). That's really worth it?

And just because it hasn't happened yet anywhere in the world doesn't mean it won't in the future. Could happen every day. And it's not like there aren't alternatives. It's not like we have to go back to candles and oil lamps.
 
Milka said:
Ok, this says it all. "Right away" in the context of radiation says it all. Who knows what's really going on there, I'm sure this will kill more people than the earthquake and the tsunami in the long run. It's man-made. Will we learn?
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Apperently, they can't/won't leave after all:

The German workers were here in Nirata since yesterday morning and were ready to leave. But the risk is too big for them. All roads have been blocked now. It would mean traveling for hours through mountains and small roads. Even a piece in the snow.

The other workers currently hold a large briefing. Wonder what they will decide!

Off topic: Lady Gaga has just donated $16 million to the people who have been affected... She also designed a bracelet which is for sale in her shop now. All profits will go to the Japanese victims.
 
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Different subject that hasn't been posted about a lot today and yesterday. The consequences of the earthquake and the tsunami.

At least 1.4 million homes are without water, 2.5 million homes have no electricity. Witness reports of people panic buying food. Not enough gas for cars, since most gas stations are closed. Vast areas are still surrounded by water and can't be reached. Thousands of people are struggling because they are running out of food.

3.000 people were saved so far, said Prime Minister Naoto Kan on Saturday. According to police, 390.000 people had to leave their homes, including the people that were evacuted around Fukushima. Thousands are in shelters, the 1.400 shelters are not enough though for all the people looking for shelter.
 
Prime minister Naoto Kan says this is the biggest crisis for Japan since the end of World War II. He is confident that Japan can overcome it. He also said the situation in Fukushima is serious, but that it's very different than Tschernobyl 25 years ago.

The French government gave a recommendation for French citizens to leave the region in and around Tokyo because of the risk of after shocks and the situation in Fukushima.

It's still not foreseeable how many casualties there are, they are still recovering hundreds of dead people. 12.000 people have been saved from the debris so far. 100.000 soldiers are helping, there are 600.000 refugees in shelters, many have to be turned away because there is no room left.

So far there were 25 after shocks magnitude 6 and higher, more than 150 weaker after shocks, according to USGC.

Source: http://orf.at
 
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Local news:

The Meteorological Agency of Japan has removed the tsunami alerts for the Japanese coast on the Pacific Ocean. Seismologists warn, however, for severe aftershocks over the next few days.

Experts fear that a new major earthquake will cause further damage to the nuclear reactors of the Fukushima I and II, while technicians remain busy to prevent a possible meltdown.

From the Belgian journalist:

The situation gets out of control again at Fukushima nuclear power plant. For the second time, 160,000 Japanese have just been evacuated..
 
This whole situations that the people in Japan have to go through is so frightening and horrifying.. :sad:
My prayers and positive wishes go out to all of them! :pray:
 
After reactor 1 and 3, there is now reactor 2 without cooling system and has to be cooled with boron enriched sea water. So it's 3 reactors now. Will this ever end?

And about reactor 3 - according to Greenpeace in reactor 3 there are special rods made of toxic plutonium, and this plutonium/uranium mix has a low melting point, which means a meltdown is possible at lower temperatures (than in reactor 1).

Greenpeace also said that due to a chain of different events, things are possibly out of control. I think Greenpeace is right ...

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/
 
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1st state of emergency (the lowest) at the Onagawa nuclear plant (that's another one, north of Fukushima). There is unusual radioactivity near the plant. The operator of the Onagawa power plant is Tohoku Electric Power Company. They are investigating the source of the radiation, but say that the reactor is OK.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html
 
The French embassy is advising against travelling to the area, and advises to leave Tokyo for 3 to 4 days , because of the nuclear situation combined with the risks of aftershocks.
 
bouee said:
1st state of emergency (the lowest) at the Onagawa nuclear plant (that's another one, north of Fukushima). There is unusual radioactivity near the plant. The operator of the Onagawa power plant is Tohoku Electric Power Company. They are investigating the source of the radiation, but say that the reactor is OK.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html
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That's the one with the fire ... somebody make this stop.

A map of Japan's nuclear power plants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Japan_nuke_plant_map3

If I'm not mistaken Sendai is basically right in the middle between Fukushima and Onagawa.

According to STUK (Radiation and Nuclear Safety Authority, Finland) wind direction might turn towards Tokyo Monday evening.
 
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Milka said:
If I'm not mistaken Sendai is basically right in the middle between Fukushima and Onagawa.
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Yes, and there is also Fukushima City. I haven't been able to figure out how far they are from the plants, if they are within the evacuation zone.
 
bouee said:
Yes, and there is also Fukushima City. I haven't been able to figure out how far they are from the plants, if they are within the evacuation zone.
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If you find a good map of Japan, please post the link. Fukushima City:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima,_Fukushima

"It lies about 250 km north of Tokyo and 80 km south of Sendai"

"As of 2003, the city has an estimated population of 290,866"

Did we hear about that many people being evacuated? Wasn't it something around 200.000? In any case, that's a lot of people living there and it sounds pretty close to the power plant.
 
Milka said:
Did we hear about that many people being evacuated? Wasn't it something around 200.000? In any case, that's a lot of people living there and it sounds pretty close to the power plant.
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About 150 000 , then it's not clear within what radius (some reports say the evacuation is complete within a 20 km radius, others say 10 km ), I think the evacuation is going on, but I haven't heard about it for some time.
 
Oh My God, People!!!!!
WHAT ABOUT THE HELPLESS ANIMALS WHO SUFFER TOO?!?!
It's ALL about HUMAN ALL THE TIME
 
Thanks Webbie bouee, and Milka for your informative updates.

One thing that is fairly certain is that the extent of damage is being minimized by the Japanese government. Possibly to prevent widespread panic, and to minimize the appearance of the risk of nuclear power plants -- upon which Japan is heavily dependent?

At this point we have no way of knowing how high the radiation levels really are. Japan has a history of nuclear accidents, and then for the official reports to minimize the severity.

We know there has been an evacuation order. What we DON'T know is how possible this is, given damaged railways and roads, and the inevitable traffic congestion. Also, do we know if shelters have been provided for these people, outside of the "nuclear zone?"

One thing that keeps cropping up on news is "the situation is under control." Sure doesn't LOOK like it? Also, every plant into which they are pumping sea-water is a plant they have given up on. The sea-water causes terminal corrosion to the plant, and it wouldn't be functional again. So this is a last-ditch scenario.

The good news (??????) is that so far, the containment buildings seem to be holding. That is the most important factor, to contain radiation from a meltdown. At this point, do we know if there is one meltdown, or two, or three? Anyone know?
 
The police in the north-eastern district of Miyagi believes the death toll will exceed 10.000. This district was hit very hard in the earthquake and tsunami, one town was completely swept away. According to Japanese authorities, the "official" death toll is 801.
 
Autumn II said:
Also, every plant into which they are pumping sea-water is a plant they have given up on. The sea-water causes terminal corrosion to the plant, and it wouldn't be functional again. So this is a last-ditch scenario.
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I think they gave up on the plant days ago. And also, not just because of the damage to the plant, but because of the radiation, this power plant won't be used anymore for anything. By now I'm pretty sure the whole area (no idea what radius) is contaminated and nobody will live or work in that area again for hundreds of years.

Autumn II said:
The good news (??????) is that so far, the containment buildings seem to be holding. That is the most important factor, to contain radiation from a meltdown. At this point, do we know if there is one meltdown, or two, or three? Anyone know?
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Hard to say, still conflicting reports, not much on reactor 2 yet. In my opinion and with all the conflicting reports in the last 36 - 48 hours, I'd say possibly 3. Because I'm sure "we" are the last to know what's actually going on and how bad it is.

Any news about Onagawa?
 
I do hope this is a wake-up call to other countries that nuclear energy is not as safe as is often claimed. I don't live in an earthquake area fortunately but our new government is planning to build a lot more nuclear plants because nuclear energy is so cheap, clean and "safe". The nuclear waste is stored underground in (densely) populated areas. We are also storing American nuclear weapons. I'm not sure how "safe" this is, but it doesn't sound very comforting to me. We haven't had that many earthquakes in the past but nature is very unpredictable and shouldn't be messed with! Besides, it wouldn't take a 9-scale earthquake to cause a devastating tsunami here cause my country is far below sea level... if the dykes break, we'd be trapped like rats in a cage with nowhere to go. The idea is terrifying. We may not be able to prevent natural disasters, but we can often minimize the effects if we aren't so reckless and greedy. Why on earth are we willing to take these huge risks just to save a few bucks?

Btw, experts are warning for heavy aftershocks in the coming days, some with a scale of 6 or higher. When will it stop? :(
 
Autumn II said:
At this point, do we know if there is one meltdown, or two, or three? Anyone know?
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I'd say 2 likely partial meltdowns (they are not confirmed) : Fukushima 1 and 3.

They believe the explosion in Fukushima 1 was due to hydrogen. It's difficult for me to explain in English, I'll try : according to what I heard different expert say, the presence of hydrogen means that the water level inside the reactor was low, and the core was partly out of the water. If it was out of the water, the heat will get higher, that's why it is likely that there was a partial meltdown.

The japanese authorities say they fear an explosion due to hydrogen in Fukushima 3.
 
If we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. If this is not a wake-up call about the risks of nuclear power, I can't imagine what would be. As a member of an "older generation," I am SO sorry that I didn't try harder in anti-nuclear efforts, and I am SO sorry for what the children face.

In terms of "history," the Japanese have a long and very poor track-record in telling the TRUTH about their nuclear accidents. Given the enormity of this disaster, and the potential effect on other countries, I think they have a RESPONSIBILITY to tell the truth in their official statements. But, I doubt they will. We must read between the lines. The truth? Not sure, except that this has been a series of catastrophic failures at nuclear power plants, and the emissions of radiation must be far greater than they are telling us. The risk is obviously ongoing.

If we've learned ANYTHING from Michael's life, at least we should understand media-spin, and that we have to search for the truth on our own. . it won't be "given" to us. So in this instance, we should look at what is being DONE. Foreign relief teams are saying it's too dangerous, and are trying to leave. Compare that to the official spin of "minimal radiation released?" That is a LIE. Compare that official spin to the 170,000 people being evacuated, and the iodide tablets being handed out. That, alone, tells us that exposure was significant.

In terms of "evacuations," you do realize that just because a population has been told to "leave," doesn't mean they CAN? How? Rail-lines are broken, roads in bad shape, and traffic-clogged. HOW are they going to leave?

This is a disaster of such a scope, I've seen nothing like it in my lifetime.

(Oh, and this is a small thing compared to the human tragedy . . . but, "goodbye, Sony?" Just think about it? Don't know how many office/factories were in Japan, but a large number of Japanese buildings were damaged, infrastructure wrecked -- little or no transportation or ways to even get to work -- and no shipping of products or obtaining parts. Japanese industry will be incredibly badly affected. THINK about it?)
 
Milka said:
Any news about Onagawa?
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A guy from the IAEA was just interviewed, he insisted he didn't have more info than the statement they issued.
Based on what they are told, he said it could be radioactivity coming from Fukushima.

there will be un update in the news in about 2 hours, with people from the government, experts and green activists.

I have heard now that 215 000 persons had been evacuated.
 
Autumn II said:
In terms of "evacuations," you do realize that just because a population has been told to "leave," doesn't mean they CAN? How? Rail-lines are broken, roads in bad shape, and traffic-clogged. HOW are they going to leave?
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Evacuation doesn't just mean they tell people to leave and then they are on their own. They are transported out of the evacuation area in a controlled way according to evacuation plans. So I really don't think that there are many people left in the evacuated areas. Or any.

bouee said:
Based on what they are told, he said it could be radioactivity coming from Fukushima.
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I just read that too. It's possible, it's just 150 km away. But it would also mean that radiation is spreading (which, of course, it is, but we haven't been told yet).
 
Autumn II said:
This is a disaster of such a scope, I've seen nothing like it in my lifetime.
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I wouldn't go that far. What about the tsunami in Indonesia that killed 250.000 people? Or the earthquake in Haiti that killed between 92.000 and 220.000 people? Or the horrible nuclear disaster in Tchernobyl? At least Japan is a developed country with enough resources and knowledge to (at least partially) handle this. I'm afraid we won't know the true scope of this disaster for many years to come, though.
 
Breaking News on orf.at:

Cooling system in nuclear power plant Tokai (south of Fukushima) stopped working. It's about 120 km north of Tokyo, there was an accident at that plant in 1999.

Will this ever end?

I was worried about that one, it's so close to Fukushima. Didn't I say yesterday 11 plants were shut down and we don't know if the cooling systems in the 10 other ones are working? Now we know ...

This is insane.
 
Update from 11 minutes ago:

Very heavy aftershock in Fukushima. I'm staying on the fourth floor of a hotel in the center and you could feel the building shaking during more than 30 seconds ...

They fear for a new explosion this night or tomorrow.
 
LindavG said:
I wouldn't go that far. What about the tsunami in Indonesia that killed 250.000 people? Or the earthquake in Haiti that killed between 92.000 and 220.000 people? Or the horrible nuclear disaster in Tchernobyl? At least Japan is a developed country with enough resources and knowledge to (at least partially) handle this. I'm afraid we won't know the true scope of this disaster for many years to come, though.
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It is the worst I have seen in the sense that the nuclear disaster in now 3 power plants can potentially kill millions of people (about 35 million people live in and around Tokyo alone).
 
The situation here is incredibly complicated :

I'm not sure they completely lost control on the Fukushima plant, but they're not far from it.

Then the area has been devastated by the earthquake and a tsunami. a lot of people there have no home to protect themselves from the radiations, so they have to evacuate.

Evacuation is complicated, there are huge traffic jams, it takes more time.

And they expect aftershocks...

I hope, I really hope they are taking extreme precautions because of all those combined factors, and that it turns out to be a big scare, and not a big disaster..

I have just seen some of the evacuated people on TV, its heartbreaking ... :no:

They are exhausted, some of them were contaminated (they didn't say how many, or how much contamiantion they received), they say that it was very cold around Fukushima...

Some of the evacuated people were taken to Tokyo.
 
:( All the news from Japan are scaring me to death. I still remember me of Tschernobyl. ... And all news are terrible. My prayers are always with the people in Japan.:angel:
 
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