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Official MJJC Support Thread - Japanese Tsunami

Milka said:
Evacuation doesn't just mean they tell people to leave and then they are on their own. They are transported out of the evacuation area in a controlled way according to evacuation plans. So I really don't think that there are many people left in the evacuated areas. Or any.
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Some of them were taken by bus, ambulances, etc.. I have heard that a 10 or 20 km radius had been completely evacuated, but I think it's still on going. And some people must take their cars, they just showed huge traffic jams.


Milka said:
I just read that too. It's possible, it's just 150 km away. But it would also mean that radiation is spreading (which, of course, it is, but we haven't been told yet).
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yes, it is spreading. What we STILL don't know is the level of radiation. Apparently, if radioacticity is rising above the legal limit around the plantn , the power plant operator HAS to report it to the authorities.

Remember I wrote something about that this morning. I said they were conflicting reports about Onagawa. One thing I heard on TV this morning was just that , that there was some radioactivity outside the Onigawa plant. But I couldn't find any confirmation, so I didn't post it this morning. And I didn't hear about it until the IAEA confirmed it, 5 hours later.
 
Milka said:
Breaking News on orf.at:

Cooling system in nuclear power plant Tokai (south of Fukushima) stopped working. It's about 120 km north of Tokyo, there was an accident at that plant in 1999.

Will this ever end?

I was worried about that one, it's so close to Fukushima. Didn't I say yesterday 11 plants were shut down and we don't know if the cooling systems in the 10 other ones are working? Now we know ...

This is insane.
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:bugeyed

just :angel:
 
(Reuters) - Japan Atomic Power said on Monday that the cooling process was working at its Tokai No.2 nuclear power plant's reactor although two of the three diesel power generators used for cooling were out of order.

The reactor at the plant, about 120 km (75 miles) north of Tokyo in Ibaraki prefecture, was automatically shut after Friday's massive earthquake and tsunami. (Reporting by Kiyoshi Takenaka; Editing by Chris Gallagher)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/13/japan-quake-cooling-idUSTKG00708220110313
 
Someone was wondering about animals,here is a newsletter I got from IFAW-internationell Fund for Animal Welfare

"Our hearts go out to the people of Japan.

The magnitude 8.9 earthquake that struck near Japan’s east coast spawned a ferocious tsunami that swept away buildings and vehicles, sparked numerous fires, and inundated vast swaths of cropland.

The human tragedy is profound: hundreds of people have already perished and that number could quickly rise as rescue efforts continue. Scores of homes were destroyed and much of the impact area will likely be without power for some time.

Of course, there may also be hundreds or thousands of domestic and wild animals in need of care and attention.

The human rescue and relief efforts are already underway, and I’ve advised our Emergency Relief Teams to be on standby to rescue animals.

IFAW’s teams are experts in water rescue and have responded to numerous earthquakes, tsunamis, floods and other disasters. We are closely monitoring the situation in Japan through IFAW’s office in Tokyo, and have already reached out to our friends and contacts there to offer whatever assistance is needed.

I will update you as soon as we know more about any help IFAW might be asked to provide.

In the meantime, please join me in keeping the people of Japan in your hearts and thoughts."
 
Milka said:
Breaking News on orf.at:

Cooling system in nuclear power plant Tokai (south of Fukushima) stopped working. It's about 120 km north of Tokyo, there was an accident at that plant in 1999.
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We've had the same update, but here they are speaking about 2 new nuclear power plants with problems instead of only one: the first in Tokai (cooling problems) and the second would be in Onagawa.

The plant in Onagawa does not have cooling problems, but is leaking right now.
 
Autumn II said:
Don't know if this has been posted before, but if so, here it is again, FYI.

This is a link for live-stream Japanese tv. (It's translated into English, but the news is Japanese.)

http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/6810.htm
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Thanks, that's great! That's NHK, Japan's public service broadcaster (like our ORF). They showed a lot of their news on ORF yesterday in special news broadcasts about the disaster, with German translation. Today, I don't know why, but they basically just stick with the usual news broadcasts (just a couple of minutes every few hours instead of hours and hours on end yesterday). Maybe there are just not enough news today with all the secrecy.

Webbie said:
We've had the same update, but here they are speaking about 2 new nuclear power plants with problems instead of only one: the first in Tokai (cooling problems) and the second would be in Onagawa.

The plant in Onagawa does not have cooling problems, but is leaking right now.
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It's leaking? Haven't seen that on our news. Here it still says it's possibly radiation from Fukushima. If it is leaking, then the big question is why. I wish they would stop playing hide and seek with us.

Interesting post, MIST, thank you!

Speechless09 said:
:( All the news from Japan are scaring me to death. I still remember me of Tschernobyl. ... And all news are terrible. My prayers are always with the people in Japan.:angel:
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I'm scared too, I also remember Tschernobyl all too well ...
 
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Absolutely no idea what the reason may be though... It doesn't mention anything else, except that and the fact that the level of radioactivity is high.

We've received a new update claiming that the problems in Tokai have been solved. The problem started after the failure of a pump, but a spare pump has now taken over and is working appropriately. But this last update comes from the plant manager and the local news here says that the plant manager is not exactly reliable.

Here is the previous update regarding the leak, translated in English:

Japan has declared a state of emergency for the plant in Onagawa (north of Tokyo), because of the release of excessive radiation.

The Japanese authorities are investigating exactly where the radioactive leak comes from.

According to the Japanese nuclear experts, there are no problems with the cooling process in the three reactors of the nuclear plant.
 
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angel.gif
 
^^ Sony has blocked this video in my country! Thanks, Sony! If this is all you are worried about right now ...
 
well there was a 30mn debate on TV, with a politician (minister for industry and energy), a green party politician, anti nuclear activist, a technician from Areva (Areva is a french nuclear energy company, equivalent of Tepco), and an expert.

Before they did the debate there was a news update.

it could have been interesting, but the minister kept interrupting everyone, and turned it into a political debate ...

here's what they said about the current situation in Japan :
News update :

Occording to the Iaea Onagawa is the closest plant to the epicenter.

Tokai : a water pump broke down, but the back up system is working.

radiation level outside fukushima = equivalent to what you can receive in one year (there are no figures)

People fleeing the Fukushima area : there have been several strong aftershocks for the past 2 days.


expert : about Fukushima 1 & 3 : it's a race against time to keep the reactor temperature low. They are pouring seawater into the reactor and into the shell, to be more efficient in cooling the reactor. If they can't maintain the low temperature , there will be a meltdown, and the consequences would be .... (he asked the Areva guy to talk about what could happen after a total meltdown)

Areva : if the cooling is not efficient , there will be a total meltdown. That's also the reason for the water in the shell : it helps cool the reactor and it's a barrier in case of a meltdown. it would reduce/stop the particles from coming out. That's 2 barriers (there is a protection around the reactor + the shell).

Minister : the most important thing is the shell. It seems that it is resisting. If there is a meltdown, particles will go into the atmosphere. There are 3 «shields» (he was saying that the particles would have two go through 2 barriers (a protection around the reactor, and the shell), + the water. To him there is no reason to "over react now"

Anti nuclear activist : she was asked what she knew about contaminated people. She began to answer that the workers on the Fukushima site were contaminated, and then she was interrupted by the minister.

She confirmed a partial meltdown on reactors 1 and 3, because the japanese authorities said so themeselves. (personal note : they said it was possible, or likely).

She said that Fukushima 3 is more dangerous than Fukushima 1, due to the fuel that's used in 3.
She said that Fukushima 1 is an old reactor (she said too old)

Minister : was asked about the French embassy asking the french to leave tokyo : he did not answer.
The minister for ecology was asked the same question in a different program, she said it was about a probable very strong aftershock in Tokyo (7 on the richter scale)

Areva : he was asked about the possible evolution of the situation : he doesn't have enough info to say what possible evolutions are. He said that given the conditions, the japanese authorities/experts were in very bad conditions to deal with the problems they have.
 
bouee said:
it could have been interesting, but the minister kept interrupting everyone, and turned it into a political debate ...
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I hate it when they do that in situations like this one.

bouee said:
She said that Fukushima 3 is more dangerous than Fukushima 1, due to the fuel that's used in 3.
She said that Fukushima 1 is an old reactor (she said too old)
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Yes, that's true, I posted about this earlier, the fuel in reactor 3 is a highly toxic plutonium/uranium mix, plutonium has a lower melting point, which can cause a meltdown at a lower temperature.

http://www.greenpeace.org/internati...cerns-remain-for-safety-in-fukushi/blog/33715
 
thank you guys for all of the updates..this is so tragic...I continue to pray for Japan and its people and those reactors...:(
 
First idependant readings of radioactivity level near Fukushima

this from a press release from "sortir du nucléaire" a french anti nuclear organisation.

they say that 2 japanese journalists went to Futaba (2 km from Fukushima) to measure the level of radioactivity. They did that this morning.

Depending on how it was measured :

0,1 mSv/h = one person would receive the dose tolerated in 1 year in France in 10 hours.

0,02 to 1 mSv/h = 1 mSv is the anual dose tolerated in France. You would receive it in 1 to 5 hours.

They say that the dose measured in Miyagi, 80 km from Fukushima was 400 times higher than normal.

I have no idea how dangerous that would be, I hope if there are people there that they are aware and respect the precaution measures, if they can.

Edit : see post 267, the measures were probably taken after the depressurisation of reactor 3, sunday morning.

According to them, the Japanese authorities are clearly minimising what's going on.

(in French)
http://www.sortirdunucleaire.org/actualites/communiques/affiche.php?aff=769
 
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Just watched our news - there are no new news about the power plants. But there can't be no new news ... it's not like Japan is frozen in time and nothing has been happening in the last couple of hours ...

Rescue teams and other aid groups and help in form of food, etc. from all over the world arrive in Japan.

bouee said:
I have no idea how dangerous that would be, I hope if there are people there that they are aware and respect the precaution measures, if they can.
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I think it basically means that you can be in that area for a short period of time, but not for very long without health risks. I think it's hours, not days or weeks.

Edit: There is a 70 % probability for a magnitude 7 or higher earthquake in the next 3 days, which could do more damage to buildings and cause another tsunami.

If THIS isn't the best argument against nuclear power plants, then I don't know what is:

japan_erdbeben_akw_so_gal12_kind_r.2056572.jpg


How can you explain to small children why they have to be tested for radioactive contamination?
 
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.. feeling like a stupid, insignificant dot with no money and nothing that can do to help in... how is Anything, really, ever going to compensate for the death of over 10,000 people?... don't think anything will.. over 10,000 lives gone from this earth, thousands other people possibly damaged forever, with no roof above their heads or food... nobody could say things like 'Live goes on'. How can it?.. and even messages like 'you're in our prayers', like basically saying 'we can't do anything else for you', and it's suffocating to imagine.... Mass deaths.
 
I was just wondering what to make of this radiation levels. They said they would release radioactive steam to release pressure from within the reactor, and apparently they did.

So these measures could also have been influenced by this steam.
 
Milka said:
Edit: There is a 70 % probability for a magnitude 7 or higher earthquake in the next 3 days, which could do more damage to buildings and cause another tsunami.
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Yes that's why the french embassy asked the french people to leave. The big fear seems to be what would happen to those nuclear plants.
 
Milka said:
If THIS isn't the best argument against nuclear power plants, then I don't know what is:

japan_erdbeben_akw_so_gal12_kind_r.2056572.jpg


How can you explain to small children why they have to be tested for radioactive contamination?
Click to expand...

:no::no::no:
 
Milka said:
Just watched our news - there are no new news about the power plants. But there can't be no new news ... it's not like Japan is frozen in time and nothing has been happening in the last couple of hours ...

Rescue teams and other aid groups and help in form of food, etc. from all over the world arrive in Japan.



I think it basically means that you can be in that area for a short period of time, but not for very long without health risks. I think it's hours, not days or weeks.

Edit: There is a 70 % probability for a magnitude 7 or higher earthquake in the next 3 days, which could do more damage to buildings and cause another tsunami.

If THIS isn't the best argument against nuclear power plants, then I don't know what is:

japan_erdbeben_akw_so_gal12_kind_r.2056572.jpg


How can you explain to small children why they have to be tested for radioactive contamination?
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the poor babies...this is so heartbreaking....they are so innocent..:(
 
Absolutely devastating..Tell these babies what?
"We have used your future as a collateral for the questionable safety of new techniques for financial profit?"
This picture speaks volumes..
"What have we done to the earth? Look what we've done?"
It's all that comes in mind since the tsunami day.
Michael's prophetic words..
I was at a collective memorial service for the Japan victims this morning. Hundreds of people united in prayer for their souls.
Tomorrow I'll visit Doctors Without Borders and see how I can help.
 
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Maria MJ said:
Absolutely devastating..Tell these babies what?
"We have used your future as a collateral for the questionable safety of new techniques for financial profit?"
This picture speaks volumes..
"What have we done to the earth? Look what we've done?"
It's all that comes in mind since the tsunami day.
Michael's prophetic words..
I was at a collective memorial service for the Japan victims this morning. Hundreds of people united in prayer for their souls.
Tomorrow I'll visit Doctors Without Borders and see how I can help.
Click to expand...
it really is very heartbreaking to see these poor people suffering. Bless you Maria for donating your time to do what you can.
 
bouee;3293666 said:
First idependant readings of radioactivity level near Fukushima

this from a press release from "sortir du nucléaire" a french anti nuclear organisation.

they say that 2 japanese journalists went to Futaba (2 km from Fukushima) to measure the level of radioactivity. They did that this morning.

Depending on how it was measured :

0,1 mSv/h = one person would receive the dose tolerated in 1 year in France in 10 hours.

0,02 to 1 mSv/h = 1 mSv is the anual dose tolerated in France. You would receive it in 1 to 5 hours.

They say that the dose measured in Miyagi, 80 km from Fukushima was 400 times higher than normal.

I have no idea how dangerous that would be, I hope if there are people there that they are aware and respect the precaution measures, if they can.

According to them, the Japanese authorities are clearly minimising what's going on.

(in French)
http://www.sortirdunucleaire.org/actualites/communiques/affiche.php?aff=769
Click to expand...


Thanks! But, did you mean to say the journalists were French? Or, were they Japanese?

Can anyone analyze these amounts?
 
A press release from the IRSN (French public agency for nuclear safety)

they were able to get more info :

they fear that highly reactive material was released during the explosion of Fukushima 1 saturday morning. They still say that they do not have enough info, and that would need to be confirmed with more measures. They say that at the time of the explosion , the measure at the fukushima site was 1mSv/h, it was 0,040 mSv/h 12 hours later, the normal measure would be 0,0001 mSv/h. They say that to them it shows an important release of radioactive material, and they think it is consistent with the measures to protect the population taken on Friday.

Fukushima reactor number 2 : water is maintained. Tepco indicated they needed to depressurize the shell quickly, but it seems they haven't done so yet.

Fukushima reactor number 3: Water is maintained, Tepco has depressurised the shell this morning as they said they would, but they did it after the beginning of the core meltdown. This has caused the release of radioactive material , but no explosion as feared.

Second Fukushima power plant (Daini)
reactors 1 2 3 4 : the water is maintained , but it seems there is no cooling system. Tepco asked to depressurize reactors 1 2 3 at 8 am monday morning. There is no further info about that.

Onagawa : radioactivity on site, that may be due to the Fukushima depressurisation this morning.

Tokai : main cooling system is not working, but the back up cooling system seems to be working

*****

so basically they confirmed the beginning of meltdown of reactor 3, 4 other reactors need depressurisation (they are not cooled down properly if cooled at all), another one has no cooling system, and nothing on the status of the first reactor (the one twhere there was an explosion)

Milka, you were right, it's worse than worse.

And Autumn & Milka, I think it is clear now that the Japanese authorities have been withholding information. Probably to avoid panick reactions.



http://www.irsn.fr/FR/Actualites_pr...Seisme-Japon_Point-situation-13032011-23h.pdf

:angel:
 
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I remember when I heard the first reports about September 11, 2001....in disbelief
I hoped and prayed that it wasnt as bad as I was hearing. But it was.
Now here on 3-11-11 I found myself hoping the same thing.
As the day wore on I realized that yes, it's bad. Really bad.

My thoughts are with Japan.
 
Autumn II said:
Thanks! But, did you mean to say the journalists were French? Or, were they Japanese?

Can anyone analyze these amounts?
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the journalists were japanese. I'm going to edit my post, because it's clear now that their results were probably influenced by the "depressurisation" that was done this morning.
 
bouee said:
And Autumn & Milka, I think it is clear now that the Japanese authorities have been withholding information. Probably to avoid panick reactions.
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Trying to avoid panic reactions is definitely not the only reason. Might be one, but not even the most important one. Sadly ...
 
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