Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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jaydom7;3907346 said:
Once again I agree with you Victory! I believe Katherine knew because MJ told everyone in 1993 that he had a problem with pain meds/ demerol.. Did Katherine close her ears to that press conference? I am sorry.. that was 20 years ago and Katherine was like 61 or 62 there is no way her age can be blamed on her not knowing or her family thinking she was too old and fragile to deal with anything. I really dislike Katherine so much.. She knew something was going on with MJ. Hell the world knew something was going on there.. she acts stupid and plays dumb but she knew.. I just can't fathom his Mother not being concerned when his hair caught fire, his skin started lightening, his nose reshaping etc.. did she even ask anything? if she knew about the discoid lupus and vitiligo then she knew he had some issues. Did she ever go with him to a specialist or anything to find out about discoid lupus or vitiligo? did she do her own research? I am just confused as to what her role was with him. She did absolutely nothing to help her son.

Metzger was telling Karen Faye, Grace and Debbie his treatments and what he was taking yet Katherine was clueless?? Randy claimed he told his Mother she needed to do something but she refused. Joe Jackson and Leonard Rowe claimed they told Katherine that she needed to check on MJ because he was too thin and frail yet she did nothing. She was worthless to him but there she was standing with her hands out begging for money, and asking for $600,000 recreational vehicle. Why did she need that? she should've been going to Carolwood making sure her son was healthy and fine to do these shows or cooking him hot, fattening meals to put some meat on his bones.. she did none of it!

It appears she was too busy going door to door with her Watch Tower magazines and buying new blue suits to worry about the hell her son was going through or cook him a meal. After all Queens don’t have to worry about the toil their loyal servants put forth in order to make their lives comfortable. That seems to be all Michael was good for with her. Keeping her living like a queen and worry free was her top priority. Did she every come to New York when he passed out on stage at rehearsal that time and almost died?
 
Re: Who will win: The Jacksons or AEG Live?

I hope the verdict favor the Jackson's, clearly AEG had a hand in hiring CM.
 
and another typed by Junky on twitter

Affirmative Defense-Patient's Duty to Provide for His or Her Own Well-Being

A patient must use reasonable care to provide for his or her own well being.

AEG Live claims Michael Jackson's death was caused by his own negligence with his medical care. To succeed, AEG Live must prove both of the following:

That Michael Jackson did not use reasonable care to provide for his own well-being; and

That Michael Jackson's failure to use reasonable care in connection with his medical care was a substantial factor in causing his harm.

Comparative Fault of Decedent

AEG Live claims Michael Jackson's own negligence contributed to his death. To succeed in this claim, AEG Live must prove both of the following:

1. That Michael Jackson was negligent; and

2. That Michael Jackson's negligence was a substantial factor in causing his death.

If AEG Live proves the above, the plaintiffs' damages are reduced by your determination of the percentage of Michael Jackson's responsibility.

Appointment of Responsibility

If you find that the negligence of more than one person, including AEG Live and Michael Jackson, was a substantial factor in causing the death of Michael Jackson, you must then decide how much responsibility each has by assigning percentages of responsibility to each person listed on the verdict form. The percentages must total 100 percent.


Even if jury find AEG negligent, this bit is going to significantly reduce damages that AEG insurance company would have to pay. AEG has proven that: MJ wanted CM, has used propofol before, and was told many doctors and nurses that is was dangerous, refused AEG suggestion to get another doctor from UK, + other things that have come up during the trial. So I think that will reduces AEG's respnsibility even if they lose.
This bit is from NY daily post:
"If the jury ultimately finds AEG hired Murray either alone or in part, it then must decide whether the company should have known Murray presented a risk to Michael, the judge said. And if AEG was negligent in that way, the jury must decide how much blame the company should assume compared to Jackson himself, the judge said.
For example, the jury could find that AEG was 75 percent at fault while Michael was 25 percent responsible for his own fate. In that case, the verdict amount would be reduced by 25 percent."

Just out of my hat, jury decides it is AEG 50%- MJ 50% and damages are set to $1 million.
AEG pays $500 thousand as they were guilty only %50,
then Panish & Co takes 40% off that %50 that plaintiffs won and other costs,
that leaves Randy and other family members % 10

I'm sure they would be happy with that as they weren't suing for the money but "justice":cheeky:
 
Re: Who will win: The Jacksons or AEG Live?

50/50 for me. Just have to wait and see.
 
Re: Who will win: The Jacksons or AEG Live?

i hope AEG is made to pay for their role in Michael's death. BUT im hoping that every penny AEG is ordered to pay will go to the kids.
 
I have a question. I was wondering if plaintiffs loses this case and no money goes to their direction, can they sue CM for medical malpractice or something?
 
Tygger my friend is going to let me know in between break today so i will let you know.

She has begin going very faithful and sometime she get in the courtroom or in the overflow.
 
Alan Duke posted a story about verdict form. I removed his commentary to get an idea about the verdict form

Jurors will have a verdict form with 16 questions to answer during their deliberations. A "no" answer to any of the first five would end their deliberations and the trial immediately.

Question No. 1
Did AEG Live hire Murray?

Question No. 2
Was Murray unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired?

Question No. 3
Did AEG Live know or should it have known that Murray was unfit or incompetent and that this unfitness or incompetence created a particular risk to others?

Question No. 4
Did Murray's unfitness or incompetence harm Michael Jackson and the Jackson plaintiffs?

Question No. 5
Was AEG Live's negligence in hiring, supervising or retaining Murray a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson and the Jackson plaintiffs' harm?

Questions No. 6-13
If jurors get to question six, it means they've decided AEG Live is liable in Jackson's death. The next eight questions would decide a dollar figure for the economic and noneconomic damages suffered by his mother and children.

Questions No. 14-16
The amount of damages calculated by the jury could be significantly reduced when they reach the last three questions on their verdict form. These ask them to decide how much, if any, Michael Jackson's own negligence was a factor in his death.
 
In case the children and KJ win, most of the money goes to PPB, isn't it? Katherine will only have 10 billions. She doesn't deserve to win but if it happens, I hope her amount don't give her greedy cubs the power for going after the children's money or the estate.
 
In case the children and KJ win, most of the money goes to PPB, isn't it? Katherine will only have 10 billions. She doesn't deserve to win but if it happens, I hope her amount don't give her greedy cubs the power for going after the children's money or the estate.

10 billion? She doesn' deserve a dime (10 cents)
 
For me the answer is still no to question number 2.

If you take the draft contract Murray was hired to carry out general medical needs - he was more than qualified to do that. Murray wasn't hired for specialist services which imo would include anaesthetic.

In order for the jury to vote no they need to be certain that AEG did not know the kind of treatment Murray was administering.
 
Re: Who will win: The Jacksons or AEG Live?

I hope the jacksons win tho I was sorry to hear all of Michael Jackson' s dirty laundry aired out for the public.
 
Re: Who will win: The Jacksons or AEG Live?

50/50 for me. I hope Jacksons win if one can call it a victory...
 
When I think about the first question and contract etc, I think they would say Murray was hired (by who isn't that clear but I wouldn't be surprised with an AEG or AEG& Michael determination)

However I've been thinking about this jury instructions

qo7igk.jpg


Did AEG and Murray agreed to be bound? To me it seems that AEG made it very clear that it was binding after Michael signed the contract. Furthermore AEG refused to pay any money before a signed contract. so did they agree to be bound before the written contract was signed and completed? This is an interesting instruction IMO.
 
In case the children and KJ win, most of the money goes to PPB, isn't it? Katherine will only have 10 billions. She doesn't deserve to win but if it happens, I hope her amount don't give her greedy cubs the power for going after the children's money or the estate.

I was watching some fox news or abc news, and they talked about this case with legal expert. They said if either side loses, there is going to be appeal, just as Ivy has said many times. It will take a long time before KJ and others get any money, if they get at all. KJ and kids are just fine moneywise, but it is the other family members who are in urgent need for money.
Because they will have to wait untill appeal, those crooks will keep pestering kids for all sort of shady deals etc, so kids will get no peace even after this case is over.

In case if AEG loses and appeal is unsuccesful, their insurance company pays the damages, and if KJ is still alive and kids under age, she will be in control of kids share.
We know where the kids share will go if that happens. The only thing is that if they get damages after unsuccesful appeal, they are over 18, so KJ cannot control their money.
 
Provided any juror believes Michael was a "secretive addict" that contributed to his own passing, it does NOT absolve AEG from allegedly and negligently hiring the doctor. It will only reduce damage payout.

Although the jury instructions say that, they also say something more. It appears it's now official that aeg's defence in blaming mj wasn't just to reduce damages but to provide an 'affirmative defence'. Even if the plaintiffs prove that aeg hired and supervised murray, a defence to that is that mj's death was caused by his own negligence.

Hence all the emphasis on doctor shopping and the stories of mj deceiving doctors - it's one thing to be secretive to family and concert promotors about what he was up to re medical treatments, but to bring in all this testimony to try and show how mj 'tricked' doctors, for me seemed designed to take off the pressure and blame on murray. What was murray to do, mj was busy asking for propofol from doctors behind his back and going to dr klien. Unfortunately for aeg, the autopsy didn't show demoral in mj's body, but that didnt' stop an aeg expert in some failed attempt during his depo to suggest that maybe demoral cd have played a part in mj's death. It's all done to minimise murray's responsibility - if it wasn't murray, it wd have been some other poor doctor mj managed to talk into treating him which wd have led to his death.
 
Last edited:
Alan Duke @AlanDukeCNN
Judge tells @CNN we can televise Michael Jackson trial closing. Setting up cameras now. Stayed tuned.
 
Did AEG and Murray agreed to be bound? To me it seems that AEG made it very clear that it was binding after Michael signed the contract. Furthermore AEG refused to pay any money before a signed contract. so did they agree to be bound before the written contract was signed and completed?

It's clear Aeg were expecting murray to act as mj's doctor in month leading up to mj's death. They were including him in crisis meetings, giving him the responsibility of getting mj to rehearsals, asking where he was on the 'trouble at front' day ie expecting him to be with mj acting as his doctor, arranging accommodation in london for him. I would say the money not being paid til all signatures were on the contract was a formality at that point - there were no major disagreements re the terms of the contract - the parties were acting as if there was a contract in place imo.
 
Question No. 3
Did AEG Live know or should it have known that Murray was unfit or incompetent and that this unfitness or incompetence created a particular risk to others?
(...)
But two doctors called by Jackson lawyers testified they had discussed Jackson's tendency to abuse painkillers, while on tour, with Paul Gongaware when he worked as Jackson's tour manager in the 1990s.
Dr. Metzger testified that he had discussed Jackson's problem with insomnia to Gongaware.
Jackson's former wife Debbie Rowe testified that Metzger arranged for anesthesiologists in Germany to treat Jackson's insomnia between concerts in Munich with propofol in a hotel room in 1997. Gongaware was the tour manager then.
Jurors will have to decide if that is enough evidence to prove that it's more likely true than not true that AEG Live executives should have known that Murray might be using dangerous treatments for Jackson's insomnia as he prepared for his 2009 tour.

I find this comment from Alan Duke a likely answer to question 3 of the jury form.
 
When I think about the first question and contract etc, I think they would say Murray was hired (by who isn't that clear but I wouldn't be surprised with an AEG or AEG& Michael determination)

However I've been thinking about this jury instructions

qo7igk.jpg


Did AEG and Murray agreed to be bound? To me it seems that AEG made it very clear that it was binding after Michael signed the contract. Furthermore AEG refused to pay any money before a signed contract. so did they agree to be bound before the written contract was signed and completed? This is an interesting instruction IMO.

Yes I thought of this as well, there are a few things that if AEG has any sense they will highlight during closing.

Alan Duke @AlanDukeCNN
Judge tells @CNN we can televise Michael Jackson trial closing. Setting up cameras now. Stayed tuned.

No sign on sky news yet, what time is it starting today?
 
Don't be so sure about Jacksons winning even $ 1.00. We all remember all the hype about Snedon winning his case. I'm very positive Jacksons will regret their shame very soon.

What evidence has been presented to show AEG is not liable of negligent hiring?

I asked the question above and have not gotten an answer. Can you tell me what evidence has been presented to show AEG is not liable of negligent hiring? The jurors cannot rely on any feeling they may have of the Jackson family, only the evidence presented.

Tygger my friend is going to let me know in between break today so i will let you know.

She has begin going very faithful and sometime she get in the courtroom or in the overflow.

Thank you. I am looking forward to it.

It's all done to minimise murray's responsibility - if it wasn't murray, it wd have been some other poor doctor mj managed to talk into treating him which wd have led to his death.

Not true. It frightens me that some fans feel this way. Michael used anesthesia as a sleep aid at different times in his life and never passed. He did not pass because he used anesthesia as a sleep aid. He passed because the doctor he chose was negligent in the administration of the anesthesia.
 
Does anyone know what time todays proceedings start

Edit. Don't worry its started
 
Bubs;3907826 said:
From NY daily post:
"A big crowd — possibly including Prince — is expected for final arguments, so court personnel moved the proceedings to the much larger courtroom with more than 200 seats."

I wouldn't be surprised if KJ drags all 3 kids on court room to get pity votes from jurors.

I know this case is a technical matter, but I am wondering if Prince really think that AEG had something to do with his dad's death? I know he said his dad cried and I guess this may help him think AEG had something to do with the death? Prince did not show up for the Muarry trial, and I know he was younger then. If he shows up for this, then that would send a clear message to me that he sees it as important.
 
What kind of closing is this? I hope AEG does better to bring all their points together.

Funny about the video not being there about Randy.
 
^^

Panish was very eager to let the jury know in a civil trial the burden of proof is lower than in a criminal trial.

He had a a pic on a scale on the projector and showed a feather to demonstrate the lower burden of proof.
 
Panish shows the video of where Randy Philips says "so, we hired him (Murray). "The CEO of company admitted they hired him".

Eager to say an oral agreement is as legit as a signed one.
 
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