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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Actually the lawyer next to Putman was smiling a lot and seemed to enjoy the videos of MJs performances & shortfilms
 
Michael Jackson's death was terrible tragedy and extremely unfair. However we have to ask ourselves as not only fans but people who use their brains, logic and have some morals: how AEG should be blame for choosing Conrad Murray as Michael's doctor and suspect that he was unfit for it's role when MJ was happy with the doctor treatment of the most important people in his life, his children. I personally feel Jacksons claim is terrible ugly way to get money in any way. Most of us suffer horrible loss when we loose the love one. Please, I would like to know how many of you would go to that kind of extreme and lies to get money. Why to critize now all molestation "victims" for extorting money from Michael when his own family does the same: lying for money.
 
I thought it was good but will wait to see Putnam. I thought the presentation on Leiweke, Phillips & Gongaware not remembering anything was very effective.
 
I could not watch it due to work. what's the impression from the people that watched the closing statement of panish?
 
Just >
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Tired of this shit trial and praying to end soon. *big sigh*
 
I thought it was fine. I was watching and they kept taking commercial breaks so it was hard to get into it. He showed that Michael wasn't nothing and had a lot to give to the world. I knew that anyway. I never saw the videos before so it really got to me.
 
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1m
If they award everything Jacksons attorney asked, it's over $1.5 billion
$325 million in non-economic damage
$1.2 billion in economic damage
 
How long was Panish closing argument? I watched the last hour, didn't know they would air it before that.
 
I thought the way the AEG lawyer was laughing and smirking all the way through was disgusting.

Overall that was a good summary of AEG's role in contributing to Michael's death. I think the amounts that Panish discussed were quite reasonable considering what they have lost. Like he said, we can't propofol anyone at AEG to death, sadly, so economic damages is the next best way to hurt them.
 
ivy said:
I could not watch it due to work. what's the impression from the people that watched the closing statement of panish?
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Honestly I do believe that Panish brought up many valid points. I know he can come off as cray but

1) Oral agreements are legit which even AEGs witness testified to
2) If AEG did not supervise/hire Murray then why did they check out a house for him too and made him in charge of MJs rehearsal?
3) Travis Payne/Kenny Ortega worked without a fully signed contract and was yet paid
4) Murrays fee was put in the budget
5) Nobody (witnesses or even AEG exces) had seen a contract like the one between MJ, Murray and AEG.
6) Emails and videoclips of where AEG say 'they hired Murray', 'they are paying his salary'.
7) Evidence that even Putman had told police about MJ going on a worldtour
8) Video of how AEG praised the sold-out shows and said MJ could easily sell out 50 more
9) A very effective video of Randy Phillips, Congaware, Liewke and many other from AEG repeating 'they dont recall' to several different questions (compared them with Prince who answered all of Putmans questions).
10) Good videos and pics to show MJs love for his kids and vice versa.
11) Conflict of interest - AEG put pressure on Murray to make sure MJ would go to rehearsals. Even LAPD thought Murray was pressured due to his financial situation
12) A cringe-worthy video shown of Congaware dodging and lying in his depositions. Most awkward video yet hands down
13) Poems and videos that shows MJs love for his mother
14) Discussions and statements of future plans (movies) and worldtour
15) Panish apologized for his behaviour towards some of the witnesses but blamedhis frustration on their attitude and their 'i dont recall' answers. He called Randy Philips 'combative'.
16) Why did Randy Philips insist on that everything with MJ was fine on June 20th when ppl had told him about the incident on June 19th?? They showed a photo of Mj from the fitting and asked the jury how Randy could say MJ was fine when he looked like 'that' 12 hours earlier?
17) No background check was done on Murray
18) Murray was not a sleep expert
19) Lots of focus on whether Murray was unfit and incompetent
20) AEG objecting openly to photos/videos of MJ and his kids being shown
21) Panish ask for $255 millions in monetary damages for all children combined.
22) How ppl that worked on the tour alerted/alarmed AEG that MJ was not well

However, there were not alot of talk of the prescription issues. Not even trying to make sure the jury understand MJ had legit reasons to seek out medications . He mentioned it a bit at the end but then only said 'everything was fine till Murray came along'. No mention of burn injuries or vitiligo/lupus or emotional pain etc.
 
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Seeing Panish and his court room style for the first time, i rushed to judgement thinking he is the worst lawyer ever. But the man sneaks up on you. He is authentic, a damn good lawyer, and i am riveted.

The judge is too ready for her close up. Is that the jury we are seeing.? The media waiting for the defense closing. Cnn gearing up with an old MJ special on sunday. Today was a good day for Michael.
 
I am torn to be honest. Michael wanted Murray but he also wanted Kenny and Travis and others. Did they work for AEG? Murray was getting a contract from them to be signed. I am just being honest in my feelings and hope nobody gets offended. I just don't think it's clear cut that AEG did not hire Murray. I think this could go either way.
 
IMO he did a good job. I don't think AEG like the pictures begin show to the jury.Their did talk to the judge after Panish was done in open court. About Panish showing these pictures to the jury AEG felt it was unfair. The pictures show how caring and loving Michael was and how he loved his childrens very much.
 
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I can't see how any of the pictures of Michael loving and caring for his mother and children proves in any way that AEG should have known Murray would give Michael Propofol in his bedroom without proper medical monitoring.
 
I see what you mean Michael wanted all of those ppls the problem here is why did AEG do a contract on Murray and nobody else that is the question. It was not AEG job to get the doctor that was the artist job to do all of the experts have said that their have never seen this done before. Like Tom M said it was a oral agreement between Murray and AEG that didn't need a signature it was vaild. That is the problem that has got me.
 
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Vici said:
1) Oral agreements are legit which even AEGs witness testified to
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and that's the law so no surprises there. I think the main issue is not whether Murray was hired but more so who hired him. AEG, Michael, AEG& Michael or no one as the jury instructions say


15) Panish apologized for his behaviour towards some of the witnesses but blamedhis frustration on their attitude and their 'i dont recall' answers. He called Randy Philips 'combative'.
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that's what I was hinting before. normally jurors see people testifying at a disadvantage and they see lawyers as the people who has all the knowledge and control of the case. so jurors don't like when a lawyer badger and harass a witness. that was a negative point for Panish, he seems to be making up for it


18) Murray was not a sleep expert
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no he wasn't but the question (verdict 2) is that "the work he was hired for"? and question (verdict 3) did AEG knew this?

I would agree that Murray was incompetent for a sleep or anesthesia position but competent for general health care. so what was the work he was hired for - as far as AEG known or should have known?


21) Panish ask for $255 in monetary damages for all children combined.
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abc7 says

If they award everything Jacksons attorney asked, it's over $1.5 billion
$325 million in non-economic damage
$1.2 billion in economic damage


max000 said:
Is that the jury we are seeing.?
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no, jury is never shown. they are probably showing other lawyers from each sides. main table only has 2-3 seats.
 
ivy said:
I think the main issue is not whether Murray was hired but more so who hired him. AEG, Michael, AEG& Michael or no one as the jury instructions say
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Do the actual jury instructions specify that or was that asked in one of the proposed jury instructions?

Today emails between Murray and AEG were shown and on them they talked about the agreement between them.

ivy said:
I would agree that Murray was incompetent for a sleep or anesthesia position but competent for general health care. so what was the work he was hired for - as far as AEG known or should have known?
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That's the key question: who will the jury believe, the doctors who testified they told Gongaware about the sleep issues or Gongaware testifying "I don't recall" too many times?
 
Hey, I am "not getting enough sleep" either and I just told a friend about it--does that mean I am going to get propofol at home?? How many people in USA are "not getting enough sleep"?? Are they going to get propofol too--is that a realistic conclusion that someone who is "not getting enough sleep" is soon going to die from a propfol and bezo combination???

And people can recognize who is sleep deprived by "looking at them"??? "We can just tell from the appearance"?? I have been sleep deprived for months and I look ok and no one has said otherwise. Panish wants people to be mind-readers.

I can't listen to any more of this faulty reasoning.
 
elapentela said:
Michael Jackson's death was terrible tragedy and extremely unfair. However we have to ask ourselves as not only fans but people who use their brains, logic and have some morals: how AEG should be blame for choosing Conrad Murray as Michael's doctor and suspect that he was unfit for it's role when MJ was happy with the doctor treatment of the most important people in his life, his children. I personally feel Jacksons claim is terrible ugly way to get money in any way. Most of us suffer horrible loss when we loose the love one. Please, I would like to know how many of you would go to that kind of extreme and lies to get money. Why to critize now all molestation "victims" for extorting money from Michael when his own family does the same: lying for money.
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This is my feeling too. I don't think it is right to get millions for these types of technical issues, but the judge said you have to go by the law even if you do not believe in it. I guess that is the reason why juries are unpredictable--sometimes they feel they really cannot go by what that law is saying.

I guess the video of Michael's performance was done to affect the emotions of the jurors.

I wonder if AEG changed their closing after listening to the plaintiffs' closing?
 
Hey, if the doctor who brought in the anesthesiologists in Germany to deal with the insomnia testified that he told promoter about his plan to deal with that, it is up to the jurors whether to believe it or not. Why should he lie? He is not an interested part in this trial as Gongaware is, hence his constant "don't recall".
 
Jamba I have to agree with you. Panish says Muarry was not fit for the job he was hired for because Michael died. Well of course we know Michael died because that information is after the fact. I found his reasoning faulty at times. The thing is that the jury is going to look at both sides testimony for the main issues and not just take Panish and Putnam's closing arguments at face value.

I hope the defense has a more organized closing that deals with the issues and not a bunch of videos. I hope it is more like an argument.

I thought it funny the way Panish claimed that all AEG had to do was admit about the hiring; then they did not have to spend all those weeks presenting evidence. However, it was really Panish who took up most of the time in court, and he did not merely stick to the issues of hiring either.
 
smoothlugar said:
Do the actual jury instructions specify that or was that asked in one of the proposed jury instructions?

Today emails between Murray and AEG were shown and on them they talked about the agreement between them.



That's the key question: who will the jury believe, the doctors who testified they told Gongaware about the sleep issues or Gongaware testifying "I don't recall" too many times?
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And what about Michael Jackson "not recalling" about sleep issues during medical examination for insurance policy?
 
marebear said:
I feel like the AEG side want to roll their eyes watching the videos or something.
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I thinks the AEG side was rolling their eyes because that showing of Michael videos was something what a shyster would do because lack of arguments and proofs.
 
Victory22 said:
I can't see how any of the pictures of Michael loving and caring for his mother and children proves in any way that AEG should have known Murray would give Michael Propofol in his bedroom without proper medical monitoring.
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That was shown in court to show MJs strong and loving bond with his kids => non-economical monetary damages.

Although I say Panish brought up many valid points, he seemed tired and not passionate enough.
 
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