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Preliminary Hearing 11/1/11. Day Six. Discussion Thread

Autumn II said:
You're welcome. I always knew the petition was a long-shot, but at least we are now on record, one-by-one, for standing on the side of justice and that's something to be proud of. For those who believe in this, think it's important to STAND UP and be counted. Six-thousand six-hundred fifteen of us did just that.

...

In the larger sense, it is NOT over and Murray will be accountable, one way or another. . .
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It could have happened. Yes.

And it was our only way to go on record, even making our voices heard. There was no other way.

Was it popular with everyone? NO. Down to personal, slanderous attacks.

I am proud to have signed this petition as number 44. And I would sign it again, with my name.

We may not be the ones to have brought the charges- but at least 6615 people were willing to even attempt to raise their voice. You gotta start somewhere. 6615 felt compelled to sign, 6615 felt obligated to at least speak up and go on record.

Thank you to the organizers.

Earlier today I prayed and hoped for an elevating of the charges, that this goes to trial and that Murray's license should be suspended.
The Universe and Mr. Pastor on Temple Street agreed to 2 out of 3. "Keep your head up!"
 
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We have never heard the time of death, if we knew the time of death we can find out who is involved.
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LOL i told u it was the nation of islam

We heard from an anethesiologist what he would use as a standard of care. We didn’t hear from a cardiologist in a similar situation and training.
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LOL a cardiologist would never use diprivan cause hes not trained to use it u idiots. whoops yeah just like your client. i guess they are saying all cardos are as thick and untrained as murray.


Murray injected around 10:40 so if Dr. Murray was away from MJ, how could he have given another dose of propofol? so what was going on between 11 am and 12 am? That goes to show you right there that Dr. Murry could not have given that dose, he was on the phone.
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isnt that an admittance of guilt LOL i wasnt even in the room for an hour!
 
ivy;3187549 said:
- Murray injected around 10:40 so if Dr. Murray was away from MJ, how could he have given another dose of propofol? so what was going on between 11 am and 12 am? That goes to show you right there that Dr. Murry could not have given that dose, he was on the phone.
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Could it be that Murray was on the phone AND giving MJ propofol at the same time?

Murray injected at 10:40 now according to the defense? I thought they changed the story. Im so damn confused with his timeline.

Didnt they say he gave it 11:40, watched Mike for 10 minutes, went to the bathroom for 2 minutes and came back.. and now they went back to the original story?

ivy;3187549 said:
- Walgren mentions Murray's timeline "According to Murray’s own timeline, that he let MJ lie there for over an hour not breathing. Or he could be lying about his timeline, and Murray is not being truthful about his timeline. Third option, is that Dr. Murray is so utterly so incompetent and reckless, that he has no idea what he gave him or when."
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This.

ivy;3187549 said:
- Arraignment is set for January 25th, at 8:30 am.
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Thanks Ivy, i was just gonna post about if we had any confirmation about that yet.
 
That man should not be allowed to treat a patient, ever again.

With a maximum of four years for I.M., it's entirely possible that Murray will not see jail-time, at ALL. And certainly not the four years. That was MAXIMUM. He'd get probation after a very short time.

The only victory here is the loss of his medical license (but that is temporary, not necceesarily a permanent loss.)
 
ivy However said:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/01/11/entertainment-us-michael-jackson-doctor_8250729.html[/url]
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Hm, if Michael Jackson swallowed some of the drug, the trace would have been found on the teeth, mouth and throat during the autopsy.
 
ivy;3187549 said:
- We heard from an anethesiologist what he would use as a standard of care. We didn’t hear from a cardiologist in a similar situation and training.
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And I doubt they will ever find another cardiologist in the whole, wide world who ever did any of those things that Murray did. A cardiologist treating insomnia with Propofol, at the patient's home and without proper equipment. That's like trying to find an anesthesiologist who performed heart surgery during his/her career.
 
Dr. Rogers (chief forensic med. for LA coroner Testimony: " I would still call this a homicide even if the doctor didn't administer the propofol to Jackson. Care was? substandard. Could not be self administered given configuration of IV set up. Vital signs should have been written down every 5 minutes, and sophisticated medical equipment should have been present".
 
elusive moonwalker said:
LOL i told u it was the nation of islam


LOL a cardiologist would never use diprivan cause hes not trained to use it u idiots. whoops yeah just like your client. i guess they are saying all cardos are as thick and untrained as murray.




isnt that an admittance of guilt LOL i wasnt even in the room for an hour!
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Exactly! it's like now Chernoff is admitting that he pumped MJ full of drugs and left the room for an hour.
 
Murray's defense is grasping at straws

- We don't know the time of death - they act like MJ's room had a revolving door and 10,000 people walked in the room. Geez. but we already know what they are trying - if the time of death period comes around the bodyguards called in the room, they might argue that bodyguards did it. (Alberto's prints should be on some items).

- 10:40 injection : Goes to Murray was outside and MJ injected himself theory. Doesn't explain why Murray left Michael alone or lied about his timeline to the detectives though.

- Standards of care differs among different doctors - is plain ridiculous. for months we heard from people in the medical area and they all say the same basics - it isn't given in a home setting and you need to monitor.
 
StacyJ said:
Exactly! it's like now Chernoff is admitting that he pumped MJ full of drugs and left the room for an hour.
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Exactly!! Lol, first in the search warrant it said Murray told detective Martinez that he gave MJ propofol at 10:40 am.. when that became public, he denied that story. And now here again, the defense is actually saying he gave it 10:40.. and then found him at 11am.. meaning it took him more than a hour to call for assitance..

ivy said:
- 10:40 injection : Goes to Murray was outside and MJ injected himself theory. Doesn't explain why Murray left Michael alone or lied about his timeline to the detectives though.
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Exactly, goes to that Murray must have been outside the room for more than 1 hour. Dipshit
 
Autumn II said:
That man should not be allowed to treat a patient, ever again.

With a maximum of four years for I.M., it's entirely possible that Murray will not see jail-time, at ALL. And certainly not the four years. That was MAXIMUM. He'd get probation after a very short time.

The only victory here is the loss of his medical license (but that is temporary, not necceesarily a permanent loss.)
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I have 1 peace of mind and only 1 from this dission of IM...taking his license....Murray will never again do to another patient what it is he did to Michael Jackson. Michael didn't deserve to die.....The universe is still silent and dark as far as my ears are concerned...Michael is not hear anymore to put his light into it.
 
marebear said:
I am sorry for the dumb question but didn't he already have an arraignment before?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arraignment

In federal courts in the United States, arraignment takes place in two stages. The first is called the initial arraignment and must take place within 48 hours of an individual's arrest. During this arraignment the defendant is informed of any pending legal charges and is informed of his or her right to retain counsel. The presiding judge will also decide whether or not to set bail, and, if so, at what amount. The second arraignment is called a post-indictment arraignment or PIA. It is during this second arraignment that a defendant will be allowed to enter a plea.

Are you referring to the one that has to take place 48 hours after arrest?

And also, the one on January 25 - so that's where he can enter a plea? So we won't know until that day if the trial will actually happen or not?
 
virginia_woolf said:
Let's hope Oxman is not their spokeman.
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Well, no wonder there was no statment on their behalf is he was the one who was supposed to make it - He didn't know what to say after today's testimonies on Michael's health. At least he knew when to shut up today. He should exercise that restraint more often.


StacyJ said:
I think Diane Demon is guilty of killing Michael Jackson truth be told. I pray she will get hers one day.
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:agree: Nice little quip. Pieces of him, for sure.
 
Milka said:
From TMZ:

Judge Michael Pastor just ordered the suspension, as a condition to Dr. Murray's bail in the Michael Jackson manslaughter case.

The Medical Board of California has asked the court twice before to yank Murray's license, to no avail. But minutes after ordering Murray to stand trial, Judge Pastor granted the request.

Dr. Murray has 24 hours to notify the medical boards in Texas and Nevada of Judge Pastor's decision.

It's a devastating blow to Murray, because he needs to practice to make enough money to pay his legal team. Murray's team believes the move is designed to take away his right to defend himself in the manslaughter trial.

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Awwwwwwwwwwww ... that poor guy. Guess he has to find a new job now. At least he can't endanger patients anymore. Saying that he needs to work as a doctor (!) to defend himself in this case where he killed a patient with doing things that no doctor would ever do, that's almost comical.
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So his medical license has been yanked from him? yay!! :punk:
 
ivy said:
The involuntary manslaughter charge against Dr. Conrad Murray in the death of Michael Jackson will be sent to trial, a Los Angeles judge ruled Tuesday.

Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor also prohibited Murray from using his California medical license until the trial is completed. The state medical board requested that be made a provision of his bail.

While Michael Jackson was Murray's only and last California patient, Murray's lawyer argued a suspension in one state would prompt Texas and Nevada, where he sees patients, to also take action.

Pastor denied the prosecution's request to increase Murray's bail, which is now set at $75,000.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/1...ackson-doctor-conrad-murray-will-go-to-trial/
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It's a devastating blow to Murray, because he needs to practice to make enough money to pay his legal team. Murray's team believes the move is designed to take away his right to defend himself in the manslaughter trial.
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BITCH!!!!!!! this ass needs to suffer!

I wonder if his ever so faithful patients in these states are gonna protest his innocence and decry this move? like I care!
 
xthunderx2 said:
I have 1 peace of mind and only 1 from this dission of IM...taking his license....Murray will never again do to another patient what it is he did to Michael Jackson. Michael didn't deserve to die.....The universe is still silent and dark as far as my ears are concerned...Michael is not hear anymore to put his light into it.
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I'm so sorry, but that's not actually the case. The loss of the license is only temporary. If he's acquitted (and he won't be), the license would probably be restored. If convicted, then it could be restored when his sentence is finished.

Yes, the universe has grown silent, and dark.
 
Autumn II said:
I'm so sorry, but that's not actually the case. The loss of the license is only temporary. If he's acquitted (and he won't be), the license would probably be restored. If convicted, then it could be restored when his sentence is finished.
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if convicted I think the medical boards will ask for a permanent revoke of his licence.
 
Oh darn it..was hoping it meant his license was removed for good
 
Autumn II said:
I'm so sorry, but that's not actually the case. The loss of the license is only temporary. If he's acquitted (and he won't be), the license would probably be restored. If convicted, then it could be restored when his sentence is finished.

Yes, the universe has grown silent, and dark.
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Talk about damn unfair......why does complete justice keep eluding Michael Jackson?

if convicted I think the medical boards will ask for a permanent revoke of his licence.
__________________
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Well, that would be better
 
ExoticPrincess said:
Talk about damn unfair......why does complete justice keep eluding Michael Jackson?
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Cuz it is michael jackson and the justice system has never been reallt fair to mj. Just look at the 2003-2005 as proof
 
ExoticPrincess said:
Talk about damn unfair......why does complete justice keep eluding Michael Jackson?


Well, that would be better
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.....


Because HE IS Michael Jackson....the world just was not ready for such a wonderful human being. I think God sent him here for as test for man kind...well guess what ??...we failed....so God took him back....why should Michael have to suffer in a world that didn't appreciate him.
 
I have been trying to do some reading about involuntary manslaughter versus 2nd degree murder. The first couple of days of testimony had me convinced that the charges should be stronger and I still think that. However, the law makes a distinction between these two--and while we may not like it in this case, there are cases that make the distinction an upholding of justice due to circumstances.

In this case, it comes down to what can be proven. I know that there has been a definition posted that makes it seems as if the malice/intent factor can be totally removed. But, based on what I've been reading, for murder there has to be some degree there even though there are other factors that would separate murder 1 from murder 2. The jury will be given instructions and if the defense can get in an instruction that puts any amount of doubt in the jurors or if the jurors are confused in anyway about the malice factor, then Murray could get off.

Also, I thought about the charges being stacked but one article says that "malice aforethought" has to be part of a murder charge. If the D.A. can't begin to prove this, then I guess that would be why they don't even begin to start with it. While the defense can throw out a lot of what ifs to create reasonable doubt, the prosecutor doesn't have that luxury.

Now, I'm not a law expert and this is just my opinion based on reading but it appears that there is way more into the murder 2 charge that just may not be provable no matter how much we think this or that.

But, it did seem that at the end of the trial, charges seem as if they can be adjusted; well, I at least saw cases where a lesser charge was added for consideration, so I'm not sure if it can be upped at that time.
 
I don't understand the last sentence. So he can still practice in Texas and Nevada? If this is so then this is going through the motions this is not justice.
ivy said:
Trials and Tribulations unedited draft updates

Conditions of bail is appropriate. Orders all of existing conditons of bail amt. and also orders the conditonal

Immediatley cease and disist frompracticing in the state of californila is now suspended by this court as a conditon of bail.

They are to notifiy the approprite authorities in other states within the next 24 hours.

Provide represite proof to this court, in the next 24 hours. to any and all licensing agencies where Dr. M holds a license.

Find there is good cause. (lists examples of the changed circumstances)

cites a case for finding. for good cause.

Dr. Murray is not to practice in any other jursdiction, in less he is so license.
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