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Preliminary Hearing 5/1/11 Day two. Discussion thread

  • Thread starter elusive moonwalker
  • Start date
summer said:
Wow....:mello: It sounds more and more like someone really was "on a mission".... Just there to make SURE Michael will NOT live.....:scratch:
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It looks that way to me too.
 
i do not get this:scratch:why was the bottle of the propfol inside of the IV bag????????? i too think this sound strange like it were a mission
 
So anyway back to reality I see now why there was print on that broken syringe. Sounds like it was Murray's print
 
Ohood said:
although i tried hard to belive he was a reckless doctor ,deep in my heart i believe that all what Murray did infront of the bodygaurds and the kids was a farce...i feel it was well prepared before.
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Based on just two days testimony, it seems like he did everything he could to make sure no one was able to revive MJ. I don't think we've seen testimony as of yet to show he killed him intentionally, but I do believe based on the testimony thus far that he did intentionally ensure that no one was able to revive MJ, i.e. 1) not calling 911 right away, 2) not telling the paramedics or the hospital staff that he gave MJ propofol, 3) as was mentioned in a recent post he broke the IV/syringe in MJ's leg when the paramedics told him to use that same one to get MJ some ephedrine to start his heart.

Not knowing CPR, I can label that as incompetency, maybe even 3) above, but 1) and 2) can't just be attributed to incompetency. Even I would know to do 1) and 2) above. One can justifiably argue that that was intentional.

I hate to accuse anyone of something so severe, but I just can't grasp how an experienced doctor can be so incompetent. This whole thing just boggles my mind. His actions are beyond my comprehension.
 
bluetopez said:
Erin on Ustream also said that Murray broke the IV/syringe in MJ leg when the paramedics told him to use that same one to get MJ some ephedrine to start his heart! When Murray broke it they couldn't find the vain and had to start all over again poking him everywhere in his arms until they got it on his neck! *SIGH* :,(
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:bugeyed:bugeyed:bugeyed:bugeyed:bugeyed

I should have gone to sleep when I said I would :cry:
 
marebear said:
They want to make it seem that Michael did this to himself.
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No, they will not be able to prove it. Chernoff knows that, he is not an idiot. You just watch, you will be very surprised what will happen next.
 
MJFan07 said:
Based on just two days testimony, it seems like he did everything he could to make sure no one was able to revive MJ. I don't think we've seen testimony as of yet to show he killed him intentionally, but I do believe based on the testimony thus far that he did intentionally ensure that no one was able to revive MJ, i.e. 1) not calling 911 right away, 2) not telling the paramedics or the hospital staff that he gave MJ propofol, 3) as was mentioned in a recent post he broke the IV/syringe in MJ's leg when the paramedics told him to use that same one to get MJ some ephedrine to start his heart.

Not knowing CPR, I can label that as incompetency, maybe even 3) above, but 1) and 2) can't just be attributed to incompetency. Even I would know to do 1) and 2) above. One can justifiably argue that that was intentional.

I hate to accuse anyone of something so severe, but I just can't grasp how an experienced doctor can be so incompetent. This whole thing just boggles my mind. His actions are beyond my comprehension.
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Sounds more to me he tried to hide his guilt by hiding as much as the evident as possible. He knew that needle would point to him given Michael something that he shouldn't.

However, it is obvious that Murray didn't think things through. Like how guilty does it look to break the needle after he was told not to or trying to lie about what he had been given, ect. I don't believe this was on purpose because I think he would had done a better job of covering his tracks and not made so many obvious mistakes.
 
so anyway I think we should all give Ivy and Bluetopez and others who have kept us updated a big thank you.
 
can someone tell is it okay that a propfol bottle can be inside the IV bag?:scratch:
 
Asedora said:
No, they will not be able to prove it. Chernoff knows that, he is not an idiot. You just watch, you will be very surprised what will happen next.
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Yes ur right, they only way they prove it is if they have video evidence
 
Taaj on twitter:

Via @Taaj2001 from inside this mornings preliminary hearing. 15 members of the Jackson Family present for today's hearings, Mrs.Jackson, Mr.Jackson, Janet, Rebi, Randy, Latoya and extended family members. Full morning session. Alberto Alvarez one of Michaels body guards got a call in the hut to run to the residents. He entered the front door and saw Prince and Paris at the bottom of the stairs and Murray looking down at them. Alberto ran up the stairs taking them two at a time. Alberto followed Murray in to the bedroom and Murray began pumping Michael with one hand. Murray told Alberto that Michael had a reaction then said "call a ambulance". AT that point in time Paris walked in the room and began screaming "daddy, daddy", Alberto said "don't worry about it we'll take care of him", and he ushered her out of the room. Murray told Alberto to get a bag and Murray took a bunch of bottles and dropped them into the bag. Murray then told Alberto to drop that bag into a brown bag. Alberto observed Michael hooked up to a I.V. and another I.V bag with a bottle inside it was dripping which appeared to look like a milky substance. Murray told Alberto to place the I.V in bag also at that point in time he instructed Alberto to call 911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuzVZgfExjU . After 911 call made Murray and Alberto lifted Michael and placed him on the floor. Then Michael Amir came into room and Murray asked if they knew C.P.R. Alberto began C.P.R while Murray gave mouth to mouth, he turned to Alberto and said " I have never done this before but I am doing it for my friend". Paramedics arrived and while they were taking Michael down the stairs Alberto moved Prince, Paris and Blanket away so they could not see Michael. At the hospital Murray thanked Alberto for his assistance then asked for a ride back to Carolwood. Alberto said no and Murray left. Alberto received a call asking him to take the childrens dog to Havenhurst. Alberto was very emotional during his testimony and had to stop to hold back tears, you could tell it was still affecting him all this time. Mrs. Jackson sobbed most of the time while Janet, Rebi and Latoya were tearful. Fans cried also it was a very emotional morning in court. Court Resides back at 1pm. These details were given quickly over the phone did my best to cover all the details exactly as given to me.
 
Asedora said:
No, they will not be able to prove it. Chernoff knows that, he is not an idiot. You just watch, you will be very surprised what will happen next.
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I can honestly say that I can't believe the things I am reading now. This is all horrible. Very hard to take in all the testimonies.
 
Yea, I guess that would be where MJ got all those marks on him! Since they where poking him all over cause Murray yet again Screwed up! Also Katherine was visibly upset and said to them to stop calling MJ a drug addict and that Murray was a cardiologist and should have been taking care of him she even cursed according to Erin from Ustream who was sitting right next to her! Later Joe said to a reporter outside that there should be a federal investigation after hearing the testimony!
 
bluetopez said:
Yea, I guess that would be where MJ got all those marks on him! Since they where poking him all over cause Murray yet again Screwed up! Also Katherine was visibly upset and said to them to stop calling MJ a drug addict and that Murray was a cardiologist and should have been taking care of him! Joe said to a reporter outside that there should be a federal investigation after hearing the testimony!
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Funny, Katherine didn't make such a plea when her children, husband, and friends were calling Michael an addict. Where was this outrage when Oxman went on every new show and called Michael an addict? Where was it when Janet called him an addict or Randy or Rebbie. It's a little late to act outrage now.

Joe, just no comment.
 
yeah I add my voice to Justthefacts and thanks all those who kept us informed and updated us , THANK YOU ALL. :)

Thanks to the staff and Gary :)
 
Ramona122003 said:
Funny, Katherine didn't make such a plea when her children, husband, and friends were calling Michael an addict. Where was this outrage when Oxman went on every new show and called Michael an addict? Where was it when Janet called him an addict or Randy or Rebbie. It's a little late to act outrage now.

Joe, just no comment.
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Exactly!!! she didn't say a word. It's much too late to be showing anger and outrage now. She should've said this 18 months ago when Oxman and Rowe were making the rounds.
 
StacyJ said:
Exactly!!! she didn't say a word. It's much too late to be showing anger and outrage now. She should've said this 18 months ago when Oxman and Rowe were making the rounds.
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Maybe somone was telling her to keep her mouth shut???? i dont just a thought..
 
Well Mrs Jackson if you want them to stop you should have made your children stop
 
StacyJ said:
Exactly!!! she didn't say a word. It's much too late to be showing anger and outrage now. She should've said this 18 months ago when Oxman and Rowe were making the rounds.
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You are in no position to say it is to late for her to show outrage about what happened to her son none
 
bluetopez said:
Yea, I guess that would be where MJ got all those marks on him! Since they where poking him all over cause Murray yet again Screwed up! Also Katherine was visibly upset and said to them to stop calling MJ a drug addict and that Murray was a cardiologist and should have been taking care of him she even cursed according to Erin from Ustream who was sitting right next to her! Later Joe said to a reporter outside that there should be a federal investigation after hearing the testimony!
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Katherine spoke out in court?
 
8701girl said:
Yes ur right, they only way they prove it is if they have video evidence
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(that Conrad did not give the fatal dose)

But since CM is the defendant in the eventual case, the prosecution will have to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty; the defense just needs to plant that doubt (I think, if I understand correctly). I still think/hope the defense is screwed.
 
bluetopez said:
F*ck TMZ!

Erin on Ustream also said that Murray broke the IV/syringe in MJ leg when the paramedics told him to use that same one to get MJ some ephedrine to start his heart! When Murray broke it they couldn't find the vain and had to start all over again poking him everywhere in his arms until they got it on his neck! *SIGH* :,(
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I've been hinting many times before about why TMZ is allowed to have their articles posted in other threads other than the tabloid section but apparently some people think they're not like other tabloids. TMZ BELONGS IN TABLOID section period.

Every single articles listed in the no-discussion thread reported the paramedic exact response and nothing was said about blue feet being signed of drug addiction:doh:

Also the ephedrine listed in the coroner's report was given by the medics? Ok, I was wondering where it came from.

One more thing that puzzles me is chef Kai said MJ ate a meal of Ahi tuna before leaving for rehearsal but didn't eat his late night meal/soup she'd left in the fridge.

I know in TII we see Michael pick at some food and we heard that Kenny was cutting up his chicken?? don't know if it's true or if on that same day.

My point is that it really doesn't look like enough food for someone preparing/dancing/spending all that energy. So the fact that Murray was supposed to care for Michael's health shouldn't that include making sure he eats enough to be able to sustain his strenght and absord those meds? Shouldn't he have made sure MJ eats his meal when he came home that night?

It seems to me that Murray wasn't going by their usual routine that night even before the awful tragedy happened and he lost all judgement. Too many things are puzzling about him.:scratch::scratch:
 
jemini515 said:
(that Conrad did not give the fatal dose)

But since CM is the defendant in the eventual case, the prosecution will have to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty; the defense just needs to plant that doubt (I think, if I understand correctly).
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What do u mean "that conrad did not give teh fatal dose"??

Of course he did, he was the only person in the room!
 
Justthefacts said:
You are in no position to say it is to late for her to show outrage about what happened to her son none
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Not saying it is too late, but it would had been nice to have this 18 months ago or even when she was on Oprah. Instead of saying beyond a shadow of a doubt that Michael was no addict we got lines like 'I heard' or 'I don't think'. Not to mention the BS Joe has been saying along with his friends Oxman and Rowe. Even her lawsuit she pretty much called Michael an addict.

So, her statement falls flat to me. Although, I'm glad someone in that family, other than Jermaine and Jackie, finally said it. Now, they just have the pass the memo to other parts of the family and 'friends'.
 
Michael's feet were not that color because he was a drug addict. His feet were that color because he was dying.

My uncle passed away in September of the very same year that MJ died. My family and I were at my uncle's bed side daily. We took turn as we waited for my uncle to pass over. He was elderly.

I learned from being with my uncle that a person's feet get cold first as they are dying and then the coldness works its way up.

This info that I pulled from a website about the signs of dying will explain it to you guys. Chernoff was grasping at straws. He should have done some research before trying to pull that sh*t.

*******************

As the heart becomes weaker, circulation fails to adequately reach the hands and feet and they will become cool to touch and the nails maybe bluish, while the arms and legs maybe pale, grey, mottled or purplish.

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To read more, click on this link and scroll down to "Body Temperature and Colour" on this website titled "Signs of Dying." Also scroll down to "Signs of Imminent Death"

http://www.amitabhahospice.org/public/helpful_info/signs_of_dying.php
 
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