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Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

rita.gibson said:
"This is the first time I've given mouth to mouth but I 'HAD' to do it because he's my friend. This sentence alone is manic for a doctor, if someone had a heart attack in the street he wouldn't give mouth to mouth because he didn't know them, Did he or did he not take an oath to preserve life?:bugeyed
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IMO, he said that in an attempt to save face. "I would never act recklessly and irresponsibly with Michael, he's my friend."
 
Please everyone re-read the first 3 posts of the thread. Also, I am going to remove the posts about the TMZ article to its own thread since it is not about Preliminary hearing testimony.

Thanks you guys.
 
hi there back again, is it strange to say im looking forward to the medical experts testify? because they problaby nail murray :)
 
Ingelief said:
hi there back again, is it strange to say im looking forward to the medical experts testify? because they problaby nail murray :)
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In a way, I am too. Mainly for the reason that you stated. On the other hand, it pains me to know details like what we have heard up to now.
 
JMie said:
sometimes I think that Murray is crazy and belongs to a mental institution. Just read his latest words about Michael's mom. I am speechless he dares to behave like that and say things like that.

or probably he wants to appear crazy to avoid conviction?
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Can you post what he said about Katherine? At work. Can't search. Much thanks.
 
Doctor Pinnochio obviously doesn't care about how anything coming out

of his mouth towards her could emotionallyaffect Katherine. The woman at Ustream

is right: he sounds more and more like a sociopath.
 
ivy said:
Although this is an update about the first day of prelim hearing, I'll post it in the current information and discussion thread so that it won't be overlooked in the no longer active threads.

Trials and Tribulations is following Murray Prelim and they are taking detailed notes. As their notes requires transcribing and typing (which is not an easy task), it consumes some time to post their notes on their website. They do not wish their full notes to be copied and posted so as they post a new entry I'll go through it and post only important additional information and make corrections (if needed) to what we already heard from the press. If you want to read their full posts you can visit Trials and Tribulations website.
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Thanks for the link and the notes, Ivy!

henryl said:
it starts in 30 mins. i hear the medical experts are testifying today, i want to see if they clear up that mike wasnt no addict.
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I don't believe any expert can say 100% whether MJ was NOT an addict without definitive toxicology as proof. What they CAN say is whether they've observed anything that would "be consistent with" someone who was suffering from an addiction (organ damage, needle tracks not caused by medical personnel, etc.).

At this point, the autopsy report did not show anything on MJ's body or with his organs/tissues that caused the coroner alarm. He seemed to note most results as "unremarkable" (in layman's terms that would be "normal" or "not unusual").

I expect Murray's team to go the ridiculous "blue hands/feet" route with as much as they can, but it will be up to the experts to agree or disagree. The experts may also be able to accurately pinpoint exactly what a particular result indicates that has zero to do with addiction...and more to do with Murray's incompetence as a physician. My hope is the experts stay focused on medical fact and not addiction "theories". If something is NOT consistent with addiction, my hope is that they will be ADAMANT about such to the point of staking their medical reputations on it. If they can do that, Murray's theories cannot be entertained one iota.

Thanks to all for the threads and pending updates/info. Appreciate it more than words can relay.
 
Michael's hands were tinted blue. Meaning his blood was not moving to his hands and feet. His hands were not blue like they were bruised from being stuck with a needle
 
blankyluvdoodoo said:
thank u ivy.i have to study but i will be checking in time to time :hug: to everyone and stay strong guys.
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thank you :hug:
ivy said:
Although this is an update about the first day of prelim hearing, I'll post it in the current information and discussion thread so that it won't be overlooked in the no longer active threads.

Trials and Tribulations is following Murray Prelim and they are taking detailed notes. As their notes requires transcribing and typing (which is not an easy task), it consumes some time to post their notes on their website. They do not wish their full notes to be copied and posted so as they post a new entry I'll go through it and post only important additional information and make corrections (if needed) to what we already heard from the press. If you want to read their full posts you can visit Trials and Tribulations website.

Kenny Ortega Testimony

- Kenny says around the time of MJ's death he was attending rehearsals 4 times a week, his schedule was to come late afternoon and he spent 6 hours maximum at rehearsals.

- Kenny says that he met Murray in April or May 09 (soon after Kenny started to work at TII), he was introduced to Murray by Michael at Michael's house.

- In the cross Kenny says he doubts even if TII was bad it would affect his reputation.

- Kenny says he doesn't know who called the June 20 meeting and says heads of AEG wasn't there. (We already know that the people at that meeting were MJ, Murray, Kenny Ortega, Frank Dileo and Randy Phillips)

- Karen Faye : This is the questions that defense asks Kenny : "Do you remember having a conversation with Karen Faye after the meeting? Do you remember telling Karen Faye of reading Michael the riot act? Do you remember telling Karen Faye not to placate Michael? Did you advise Karen Faye in any respect in regard to how to treat Michael after this meeting? Did you discuss with Karen Faye any thing regarding how she should treat Michael?" Kenny responds No or don't remember to this questions.

- Kenny says Michael missed a series of rehearsals (a week) in early June. He says this made him worried because everything needed Micheal's decision and/or approval and without it TII couldn't move forward.

- Kenny says on June 25th Michael was supposed to arrive to rehearsals around 4:00-4:30 PM.

(Kenny also mentions taking TII to international places (India and Japan) and Michael wanting to direct with Kenny after TII)


Michael Amir Williams testimony

- Williams say that at the house there were 2 security 24/7 to open the gate and screen everyone that comes in.

- Williams say that he met Murray in early 2008 in Las Vegas.

- Williams say that it was regular pattern for Murray to be at the house when they came from rehearsals and that he would stay the night.

- Williams say on June 24th Michael went to rehearsal around 6-7 PM , MJ was in great spirits and wanted to be there on time. He says the rehearsal ended past midnight. They drop Michael off as always and Williams went home.

- Williams say he was at his house when Murray called. Faheem had left MJ's house to go to the bank and Alberto Alvarez was at the front door.

- Williams say that no security/no staff was allowed upstairs perhaps with the exception of housekeeping to clean.

- Children's nanny is identified as "Rosalie"

- Williams describes the scene at the hospital : Doctors working on Michael behind a curtain, the kids are waiting in a room. Security and nanny is waiting outside in front of the room. Murray and doctors come out , tell them Michael is dead. Murray, Dileo and Williams walk into the room where the children are. Prince tells them "make sure to tell the doctors daddy's allergic to X, Y". Frank tells them "your daddy had a heart attack and died". Murray says "don't tell them that (heart attack?). We don't know".

- Williams say that he discussed Murray's request to go back to MJ's house with Faheem and decided to say "police have our car keys". He also says he called the security detail at the house and said "don't let anyone in, don't let anyone out".

- In cross examination member's of security's connection to Nation of Islam and "Security Measures" is questioned. He says the housekeepers and 3-4 of the security wasn't related to NOI.
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intresting:timer::timer:
ivy said:
thank you for pointing it out. I added that point to my summarized notes.

and yes you are right it seems like Murray was constantly refusing his role/responsibility in MJ's death.
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yesssss:(:(
windy09 said:
Yes thank you for the detail update and the reference to the website. Yes it does appear that Murray is taking no accountability whatsoever. :no: He truly is only thinking about himself.
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You can say that again:evil:
Autumn II said:
Working on it. Will keep everyone posted when finalized.
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Thank you:yes:
michaels wendy bird said:
Another day of heartache :(
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i know :hug:
rita.gibson said:
"This is the first time I've given mouth to mouth but I 'HAD' to do it because he's my friend. This sentence alone is manic for a doctor, if someone had a heart attack in the street he wouldn't give mouth to mouth because he didn't know them, Did he or did he not take an oath to preserve life?:bugeyed
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:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
I can't wait to hear the testimony from the medical experts. They can easily nip this whole "addict" thing by the defense, in the bud. Let's see what transpires for today...
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
I can't wait to hear the testimony from the medical experts. They can easily nip this whole "addict" thing by the defense, in the bud. Let's see what transpires for today...
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i doubt that will even come into play today. only in the trial and thats only if the defence are allowed to go down that path
 
elusive moonwalker said:
i doubt that will even come into play today. only in the trial and thats only if the defence are allowed to go down that path
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Ah, I see, so today will mostly be about things like propofol effects, long term on the human body, what they felt was the issue with Michael, etc.

Thanks for the clarification...Today's proceedings will be interesting, either way.
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Ah, I see, so today will mostly be about things like propofol effects, long term on the human body, what they felt was the issue with Michael, etc.

Thanks for the clarification...Today's proceedings will be interesting, either way.
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the drs etc are there to state how wrong it is to give diprivan in a home setting and with no equipments etc.aswell as stating what was found in mjwhatcaused his death etc. remember the hearing is about showing theres enough evidence to send it to trial.nothing more the pros give a basic step step layout of what happened to show the judge it should go to a full trial. its not about going after the defence claims. thats for the trial
 
elusive moonwalker said:
i doubt that will even come into play today. only in the trial and thats only if the defence are allowed to go down that path
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according to what Erin is saying on ustream, the defence is already going that route, they were pressing the paramedic to admit that Michael looked like a drug addict.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
i doubt that will even come into play today. only in the trial and thats only if the defence are allowed to go down that path
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I kinda hope the defense tries to go down that path and the judge allows it. If they get shot down by the experts today, the odds of them trying it during actual trial could be reduced. Then again, it might be good for the judge to shut it down now and let them fail at trial. Not sure.

I just hope these experts do not fail us in any capacity, addict talk or otherwise. Whatever path Chern and Rowe attempt to go down my hope is they get nothing but a dead end. Seems they are looking for an opening to use at trial and I just hope they do not find one.
 
TMZ

EMT: Murray Denied Giving MJ Drugs

Another paramedic testified ... Dr. Conrad Murray denied giving Michael Jackson drugs as the singer lay lifeless in his bedroom.

Martin Blount said when he walked into MJ's room Murray was sweating profusely. Blount says Murray told EMTs he waited only one minute before calling 911.

But another paramedic testified earlier he believed Murray waited between 20 minutes to an hour to call 911.
 
How would that guy know if Michael was a drug addict or not he knows nothing about Michael. That is so damn stupid
 
JMie said:
according to what Erin is saying on ustream, the defence is already going that route, they were pressing the paramedic to admit that Michael looked like a drug addict.
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yeah thats cause its the prelim its not the actual trial. actual trial can be different as the each side files motions to stop certain evidence being used in the trial like with 93 in the 03-05 case if they want
 
Sky News:

Martin Blount 2nd medic on scene: we went above and beyond to try to help the patient "it's not he's a celebrity, he's someones son"

Blount: didn't observe a viable heart rythmn. Described Dr Murray as sweating...saw him put bottles into a bag
 
ivy said:
TMZ

EMT: Murray Denied Giving MJ Drugs

Another paramedic testified ... Dr. Conrad Murray denied giving Michael Jackson drugs as the singer lay lifeless in his bedroom.

Martin Blount said when he walked into MJ's room Murray was sweating profusely. Blount says Murray told EMTs he waited only one minute before calling 911.

But another paramedic testified earlier he believed Murray waited between 20 minutes to an hour to call 911.
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I will ask you this question because of your legal backround. Is it not silly to ask the EMT if Michael was an addict?
 
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

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@DeborahFfrench I am not in court today, but we have a producer inside and I will tweet information when I get it




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Court: Martin Blount 2nd medic on scene: we went above and beyond to try to help the patient 'it's not he's a celebrity, he's someones son'

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Blount: didn't observe a viable heart rythmn. Described Dr Murray as sweating...saw him put bottles into a bag
 
Someone got me a bit confused now. Was Sennoff and Blount were two paramedics who came in an ambulance, right?

It's not ignorance. I am not able to thinking clear now. Still can't get out of my head the picture of Prince and Paris crying on the floor :(
 
I am torturing myself here but I just have to ask...if anyone knows. :(
I am sure that time of death can be determined almost correct, right ?
I don"t know any information of that concerning Michael.....:(
I mean, when you look at those TV shows...a coroner can say when someone died measuring the liver temperature.
Do we have a correct time of .....death ?
With that answer, everything would be much, much clearer.
Can somebody answer this, please ?
 
The Lost Child said:
Someone got me a bit confused now. Was Sennoff and Blount were two paramedics who came in an ambulance, right?

It's not ignorance. I am not able to thinking clear now. Still can't get out of my head the picture of Prince and Paris crying on the floor :(
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Yes, they were the first and second responders on the scene.
 
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