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F D B
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Great post.
Everything you just said makes perfect sense and I agree with all of it.
The thing is though, is still kind of fun to argue (politely) about this.
I don't have much free time, but when I do and I get a chance to browse and read these boards (and other MJ fan bords) I like trying to prove WHY I think the tracks are fake. Not to force anyone to think like myself.
Although it's time-consuming, it's also smart. Most of the post in this thread are smart. The beLIEver's posts and the Doubter's posts.
Of course there's always going to be somebody who comes and says something like "F*** You! If you really believe THAT, you aren't a true Michael Jackson fan!" - But hey! Idiots are everywhere.
I don't think the discussions should end. It's not just a good way to keep Michael's name alive, but it's also a nice way to train our minds. Debating is healthy.
Until maybe one day, the ultimate proof will come out for everybody to see, and only then the discussions shall be ended.
Kirshach
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I don't know how prejudged one should be not to hear the identity...
F D B
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I think someone should get a hold of every video comparison that's been out there since November 8th and pack it all together and then upload it everywhere possible.
As Torrent to thepiratebay.org and every download site. And of course, to every Fan-Page affiliated who believe the tracks are fake.
SO many videos have been released and a lot of them were unbelievable good, and a huge proove of what we believe, I'm sure a lot of us missed many of them which were worth it.
If anyone has a huge collection of those videos/audio comparisons please consider doing this Ultimate Fake Proof of Michael Jackson's Impersonator, or some other suitable title.
As Torrent to thepiratebay.org and every download site. And of course, to every Fan-Page affiliated who believe the tracks are fake.
SO many videos have been released and a lot of them were unbelievable good, and a huge proove of what we believe, I'm sure a lot of us missed many of them which were worth it.
If anyone has a huge collection of those videos/audio comparisons please consider doing this Ultimate Fake Proof of Michael Jackson's Impersonator, or some other suitable title.
Oops, they've taken the songs from the wrong vault :cheeky:
samhabib
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Yep... it's so easy to confuse the greatest artist of all time with one of the worst...!
F D B
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I think 'mediocre' is the right word.
He's definetely not one of the worst. Specially if he got so many people all around the world thinking it's Michael Jackson.
Garden
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Quote Samhabib :
"The thing is though, is still kind of fun to argue (politely) about this.
I don't have much free time, but when I do and I get a chance to browse and read these boards (and other *MJ *fan bords) I like trying to prove WHY I think the tracks are fake. Not to force anyone to think like myself.
Although it's time-consuming, it's also smart. Most of the post in this thread are smart. The beLIEver's posts and the Doubter's posts.
Of course there's always going to be somebody who comes and says something like "F*** You! If you really believe THAT, you aren't a true *Michael Jackson* fan!" - But hey! Idiots are everywhere.
I don't think the discussions should end. It's not just a good way to keep *Michael*'s name alive, but it's also a nice way to train our minds. Debating is healthy.
Until maybe one day, the ultimate proof will come out for everybody to see, and only then the discussions shall be ended"
No comment, wouldn't be fun or smart enough...
Argueing (politely) for training our minds? Could be a way
"The thing is though, is still kind of fun to argue (politely) about this.
I don't have much free time, but when I do and I get a chance to browse and read these boards (and other *MJ *fan bords) I like trying to prove WHY I think the tracks are fake. Not to force anyone to think like myself.
Although it's time-consuming, it's also smart. Most of the post in this thread are smart. The beLIEver's posts and the Doubter's posts.
Of course there's always going to be somebody who comes and says something like "F*** You! If you really believe THAT, you aren't a true *Michael Jackson* fan!" - But hey! Idiots are everywhere.
I don't think the discussions should end. It's not just a good way to keep *Michael*'s name alive, but it's also a nice way to train our minds. Debating is healthy.
Until maybe one day, the ultimate proof will come out for everybody to see, and only then the discussions shall be ended"
No comment, wouldn't be fun or smart enough...
Argueing (politely) for training our minds? Could be a way
BUMPER SNIPPET
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Quote Samhabib :
"The thing is though, is still kind of fun to argue (politely) about this.
I don't have much free time, but when I do and I get a chance to browse and read these boards (and other *MJ *fan bords) I like trying to prove WHY I think the tracks are fake. Not to force anyone to think like myself.
Although it's time-consuming, it's also smart. Most of the post in this thread are smart. The beLIEver's posts and the Doubter's posts.
Of course there's always going to be somebody who comes and says something like "F*** You! If you really believe THAT, you aren't a true *Michael Jackson* fan!" - But hey! Idiots are everywhere.
I don't think the discussions should end. It's not just a good way to keep *Michael*'s name alive, but it's also a nice way to train our minds. Debating is healthy.
Until maybe one day, the ultimate proof will come out for everybody to see, and only then the discussions shall be ended"
No comment, wouldn't be fun or smart enough...
Argueing (politely) for training our minds? Could be a way
Just for the sake of our mind training, the next debate will be: "Did Mickey Mouse actually exist?"
Or that people believe it's Michael Jackson simply because these songs are included on an 'OFFICIAL' (using this term loosely, of course) Michael Jackson release....Along with a statement outlining the use of forensic analysis to 'prove' that the lead vocals are Michael's...
MJJuniorSinceMW
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Ok, as i'm no more in the mood for discussing, nor do i see the fun of it today, i say:
For now, you are right & i'm @ peace.
*relaxed listening to STTR-Real Version*
For now, you are right & i'm @ peace.
*relaxed listening to STTR-Real Version*
Garden
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Just for the sake of our mind training, the next debate will be: "Did Mickey Mouse actually exist?"
Brillant idea, like that
StaceyMJ
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Look, I don't have to point out how many times this thread has been cleaned. It's getting ridiculous. samhabib, quit the crap. Your ban has been lifted so if you'd like to move on from it and just carry on posting while abiding by the rules that would be good. Just enough!
azsummergirl
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what exactly is samhabib doing that's not allowed in a debate thread? i am so lost . . .
samhabib
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Anyway, back to the debate regarding the contentious tracks on the album.
What I can't understand or comprehend is this:
Michael Jackson - NOT ONLY the greatest entertainer the world has ever known but ALSO a genius businessman and music publisher - would write songs... and go as far as recording these songs... and then leave the copyright for those songs dormant for the best part of two years.
How does the greatest publishing mind in music do that? A man who OWNED half of the world's biggest publishing catalogue? How does he allegedly write a song - and not copyright that. And then go as far as allegedly recording the song that he's written. And still not copyright it? When he's a master of the intricacies of music publishing? How does that happen?
I saw an interview with Rodney Jerkins recently in which he discusses Michael Jackson's knowledge of the BMI system and how he schooled Rodney on how to make money from his publishing.
How does he allegedly write 12 songs, allegedly record 12 songs and then allegedly leave the copyrighting of 12 songs dormant?
Listen to what Rodney Jerkins says about Michael's knowledge of music publishing. How does this man NOT register his own songs for the best part of two years??? And they get registered two days after his death?
[YOUTUBE]esNsGR2JaF8[/YOUTUBE]
What I can't understand or comprehend is this:
Michael Jackson - NOT ONLY the greatest entertainer the world has ever known but ALSO a genius businessman and music publisher - would write songs... and go as far as recording these songs... and then leave the copyright for those songs dormant for the best part of two years.
How does the greatest publishing mind in music do that? A man who OWNED half of the world's biggest publishing catalogue? How does he allegedly write a song - and not copyright that. And then go as far as allegedly recording the song that he's written. And still not copyright it? When he's a master of the intricacies of music publishing? How does that happen?
I saw an interview with Rodney Jerkins recently in which he discusses Michael Jackson's knowledge of the BMI system and how he schooled Rodney on how to make money from his publishing.
How does he allegedly write 12 songs, allegedly record 12 songs and then allegedly leave the copyrighting of 12 songs dormant?
Listen to what Rodney Jerkins says about Michael's knowledge of music publishing. How does this man NOT register his own songs for the best part of two years??? And they get registered two days after his death?
[YOUTUBE]esNsGR2JaF8[/YOUTUBE]
BUMPER SNIPPET
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What crap now? This is really pushing it too far.
Haven't you noticed that some non-doubters constantly label people as conspiracy theorists and make them look dumb? Yet no warnings?
The other day someone told me directly to shut up and nobody from the staff saw that. Ok you are humans. But I am not the kind to report things easily, because it is childish.
Now, when Sam expresses his opinion that he cannot understand how people can believe it is Michael on those songs he gets a warning.
Why don't you delete all our non-believers posts and ban Sam and some of us forever?
Very interesting find....Rodney paints a picture of a man who is extremely passionate, and VERY savvy about the business side of music...Enough to enthusiastically teach someone else about it, and instill a passion in Rodney, too....It's interesting to point out that Rodney is very excited to share the music he's done with Michael...He wasn't involved in the 'Michael' project, though...hmmm....He has stated before that the three questionable songs don't sound like Mike, right?
samhabib
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Indeed. Why would he say this? Again, another one for the conspiracy theorists who believe it is Michael on the Cascio songs to debunk.
Music producer Rodney Jerkins who co-produced Jackson's last studio album, "Invincible", took his twitter acount to express his scepticism over the song saying "doesnt sound like him to me".
Yes, I thought he'd said that...But, I guess he'll just be discredited as well....
Bumper - report it. if you don't report it then please do not complain about why we didn't see it or did nothing about it.
As for the rest:
I'll first post something that I posted before
Remember this is a debate - express your opinions in a respectful manner
Be prepared that there will be people who do not think like you - respond to their opinions in a respectful manner
Do not use terms like " I can't believe you say that" , "do you have ears" etc - remember everyone is entitled to their opinions
Do not turn this debate into an argument, keep it civil - know when to say "let's agree to disagree"
Do not post messages that simply say "the songs are real/fake" - this is a debate thread, where everyone stands is quite obvious, you don't need to post it 1000th times
and remember either side doesn't have any hard, undebatable proof - so do not force your opinions to other people as they are the only truth
(ps: what might be proof to you might not be proof for other people so do not push it as such, list them as experiments etc that prove your point).
so to your questions "why" here's the answer (see the bolded parts above)
what samhabib thinks about some of the lyrics is OBVIOUS, he said it over and over a million times, we got it the FIRST time. Repeating it again and again and again doesn't add ANYTHING new to the discussion.
furthermore he expresses his opinion with a message that he MAKES FUN OF what other people believe which is not RESPECTFUL to other people's opinions. (another member joins in repeating other side's opinion in a similar manner - so you have 2 members hinting in a joke-full manner how what the other people think is ridiculous. To them it's hilarious, to people with opposite opinions it's insulting.)
and then the posts gets REPORTED
How many times do we have to say that the warnings/post deletions/ bans isn't about what you say or believe but HOW you say it.
^^ In all fairness, discussing the lyrics of the songs is important in this debate....I've had countless discussions with him outside this forum about the lyrics....There's a reason WHY he brings it up so much....I think people are just a little bit too sensitive and subsequently reporting things....Maybe they should be really scrutinizing the CONTENT of what he's saying, rather than how he's saying it....
nobody is telling you that you cannot discuss it. Discuss it, examine it, investigate it further as much as you want
but
that doesn't mean that you have to start the discussion with a irony aimed at the people believe the opposite than you.
again the issue in these discussions isn't what's being said, it's how it's being said.
sorry but I disagree. How you say it makes a huge difference. that's why we had the huge fights and had to come up with solutions. For example as far as content goes "how can you not hear X on the vocals" and "are you deaf?" is the same, bur when you look to the way it's portrayed the first one is a question and the second one is an insult.
AnnieRUOkay89
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You've shown an act of blatant hypocrisy with this post..Here's why.
Well sure, but you also need a good reason as to why Teddy Riley would lie and say it is Michael, a "VERY good reason". Saying he went bankrupt two years ago isn't a good reason, because in today's world, Bankruptcy doesn't mean you're flat-out broke, today it's a chance for someone else to have control over some of your finances so you can get your monetary status situated. Bankruptcy will not send someone living out the street, and they're offered ample time to get their lives together before a more serious infraction is dished out.
Again, sure, but you also have to provide the same exact reasoning as to why the Cascio's would lie, and say these songs are Michael. I have yet to see a good explanation from you or anyone else as to why this family, who's stuck by this man all these years, would basically stab him in the back after his death and sell off fake material. I've seen the "he used the money to pay for his studio", "they brought a new house", blah blah blah. But the fact of the matter is, you nor anyone else has any proof to support such a claim. But we're supposed to take LaToya's words for gospel? The same woman who once accused her brother of being a pedophile, the same woman who says impersonators were used in TII, not stuntmen, not doubles, but impersonators, she along with Joe also stated that the impersonators are shown throughout a large portion of the film, when it's clearly Michael Jackson. Oh, how reliable.
We should also believe Randy Jackson over the Cascio's, the same guy who was involved in a scam to draw money from Michael's fans, the same man that reportedly is the reasoning behind finances being in ruins. And again, we're supposed to believe him over a family who has never ran to the tabloids, who has always defended this man, and has never been accused of being involved in a plot against Michael until now? Sorry, but I rather put my faith in those who don't have a track record of miscellaneous acts.
Your whole line about Tarryl, is utter hypocrisy, on what basis do we have to say that Tarryl is lying about the meeting? What basis do you or any of your fellow non-believers have that the meeting with the forensic vocal analysts with Sony and The Estate never happened? You have none.
Katherine Jackson, the same person who disputed Michael's claims of having 2 nasal surgeries, although in a motherly fashion, she still disputed the claim. The same woman who allowed this shark, Howard Mann, into her life and garner control of the Jackson vaults and other unreleased material. Her decision making isn't always that great, yet we should all take her word for gospel, because you say so. Doesn't quite work that way.
Funny, because there isn't any source of documentation, tweets, facebook messages, etc. that shows that these words came from the childrens mouths. Oh wait, TMZ said so, so it must be true
Bottom line is, all the people you named, have a history of being shady in regards to Michael, the Cascio's on the other hand, don't. But yet they're these evil people, who sold Michael out after his death, and are illegally profiting off his name?
These people have never issued any disparaging comments regarding Michael, these people have never been involved in any scam against Michael and his fans (until now according to you and others), these people were virtually unknown to anyone outside of the Michael Jackson fanbase. Yet, you're asking us for good reasoning as to why people with shady history would lie, but at the same time you can't offer a bit of good reasoning as to why this family who has always been on the up and up would lie, other than "they did it for money".
A lot of you need to step back, and realize how hypocritical you all are getting in regards to this situation. What I find the most sad though, is some people believing this hypocrisy is okay, in order to prove a point.
Furthermore both TMZ and Roger Friedman who said that the children were against the vocals also said that the children are being manipulated to say so. So if we are to believe what the tabloids reported are the truth then doesn't it mean that we need to accept that the part their being manipulated is the truth as well?
Korgnex
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There's nothing wrong with the lyrics.
But there's sth wrong with people criticizing or laughing at the lyrics. I've seen people laughing about the lyrics of "Keep Your Head Up". They were laughing about things that made no sense to them. HOWEVER they didn't understand the lyrics and their context at all. So basically you could laugh at them for not getting it...
But there's sth wrong with people criticizing or laughing at the lyrics. I've seen people laughing about the lyrics of "Keep Your Head Up". They were laughing about things that made no sense to them. HOWEVER they didn't understand the lyrics and their context at all. So basically you could laugh at them for not getting it...
BUMPER SNIPPET
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There's nothing wrong with the lyrics.
But there's sth wrong with people criticizing or laughing at the lyrics. I've seen people laughing about the lyrics of "Keep Your Head Up". They were laughing about things that made no sense to them. HOWEVER they didn't understand the lyrics and their context at all. So basically you could laugh at them for not getting it...
Well, lyrics are indeed debatable, because when Michael records a demo the lyrics are also in demo condition too.
However, saying that there is neither nothing wrong with lyrics nor voice, is a bit too much.
loka
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there are some lyrics in previous mj songs laughable too and it was sometimes worst than the ones on the cascio tracks and it was finsihed songs.
...such as? I'm just curious which ones would be considered laughable...?
loka
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CRY :
"And will the sun ever shine
In the blind man's eyes when he cries?"
these ones are probably the most useless lyrics of all time...
le lyrics of "wanna be startin somethin" (3 verses !!) lead NOWHERE too !
I Took My Baby To The Doctor
With A Fever, But Nothing He Found
By The Time This Hit The Street
They Said She Had A Breakdown
Someone's Always Tryin' To Start My Baby Cryin'
Talkin', Squealin', Lyin'
Sayin' You Just Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
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