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The Lip Thing

virgo_3079 said:
2003
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2005
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2007
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A Big Thanks!

So in the pic with James Brown from 2003 we can see him smiling again.

So the timeframe was Christmas 2000-2003-so about 2 years and a couple of month he had the problem. Thanks for the help!
 
I was really worried about him back then. He just didn't look well at all. I think the lip-problem is the reason why he was hiding his face in the YRMW video. It is probably also the reason why he kept covering his mouth during the MSG shows. And I also noticed he kept bending over and leaning forward when he was singing:

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^^^ He never did that prior to 2001.

I think he was very paranoid about it at the time and you can't really blame him. It was definately at it's worst around 2000-2001 time which is unfortunately the time he was under contract to release and promote a new album.

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I also believe this is the reason why he only made one video from Invincible. He just wasn't even comfortable in his own skin at this time.
 
Wow....never knew about this :blink: Then again, I became a fan at the beginning of 2003...

You say that, back then, it was very discussed and fans were worried and stuff... has Michael ever said anything about it?

On a side note - virgo, he looks beautiful in those pictures.
 
He's never referred to it. But it effected everything he did back then, from the quality of his performances, to him not wanting any close-up shots in YRMW video... the fact that he didn't want to make music videos for Invincible... I think it was all connected.
 
MattyJam said:
He's never referred to it. But it effected everything he did back then, from the quality of his performances, to him not wanting any close-up shots in YRMW video... the fact that he didn't want to make music videos for Invincible... I think it was all connected.
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You may be right, though, if I remember well, with Invincible, Sony was the problem. I understood that Michael wanted to release certain songs and videos, but Sony didn't approve (not to mention the lack of promotion mess).
At least, that's what I read a few years ago.

But I think that was indeed the case with the close-ups and how he kept hiding his face at MSG.
 
I think the problems with Sony were only half the story.

They wanted him to do a video for Butterflies but MJ refused - supposedly because of the budget. I have a feeling the budget wasn't the real reason why he didn't want to make a video though...
 
Breaks my heart.
I noticed it too around that time, with his smile and his MSG performance.

His smile was looking amazing again by '03 though.
 
Oh, so there was really something with the lips.. I've always wondered what was happenning on his 30th show at the end when he never smiled and hide his face singing with his hand.. It made me sad...

I don't know what it was, but there was really something there...
 
my heart goes out to him, he was such a beautiful man inside and out. How I wished he had truly known that .

I find it hard to watch YRMW actually because it just doesn't look like Mike to me.
 
Yeah, 2000-2001 weren't exactly the best of times in many respects... ~sigh~ My husband and I have discussed this often. I wonder if we'll ever know what happened. Of course he never mentioned anything publicly, but it was unfortunately very obvious. It must've really sucked for him :( As far as his voice and singing, hmmm, I don't know about an effect. In theory there should be some, but I don't think I ever detected one. When he was talking, though, there was a difference.
 
When did Mike finished the invincible session?
 
Candy said:
Well, then I believe it was a side-effect caused by some kind of surgery.
It's hard to believe he used botox as his lips were full from his childhood.
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You're thinking of collagen fillers used to give people fuller looking lips. Botox paralyses and relaxes the muscles as a temporary 'anti-aging' solution to wrinkles.
 
Well, that was a hard time for him, and for most of all.

I always thought it affected the singing...for example, YOU ARE MY LIFE, BEAUTIFUL GIRL, ONE MORE TIME, the way of singing these songs, for me, was affected by the problem. Check how his speaking was affected, by watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzGCZUT9DG4

It's really sad to watch him on the MSG show, he clearly didn't want to be there, it must have been really difficult, like the times when he had pimples and didn't want to perform or be seen. But anyway, I don't think it was just the lip, his nose was not in the best shape, his eyes were incredibly big, lifeless, the hair was a mess, those were hard times.

Ironically, he regained the smile by the trial period...leaving aside the situation, his best looks on this decade, were during the trial. He looked so confident, I never doubted him, but to watch him go inside the court house on that beautiful white suit, totally secure of himself...made just wanna kill anybody who said he wasn't innocent.
 
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fridu_reyk said:
Well, that was a hard time for him, and for most of all.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I always thought it affected the singing...for example, YOU ARE MY LIFE, BEAUTIFUL GIRL, ONE MORE TIME, the way of singing these songs, for me, was affected by the problem.
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So you think MJ had the lip problem while he recorded the invincible album and tracks like You Are my Life etc??? How do you know that???
The Lip-Problem started Christmas 2000 has he recorded You Are My Life after Christmas 2000???

And what do you mean with the way of singing these songs was affected by the problem???
Can you please give more information about your feelings. I´m going to play You are my Life right now to see what you mean
 
I can't explain it...it just a matter of listening. Take a look at the video I linked, and compare. I can tell there's a difference between DON'T WALK AWAY and YOU ARE MY LIFE, the way he says the words. For example, put a finger on top of your lip, and try to sing. It's not going to sound the same without the finger. That's what I mean.

To my knowledge, You are my life was one the last, if not the last track recorded for Invincible, which was released on 2001, replacing SHOUT , as far as I recall.
 
Arty said:
@defdave I guess you´re a new fan.

Back in the day the lip-thing was big news on all mj boards-so you must have missed it but believe me he had a serious problem couldn´t smile anymore etc-so fans were so happy that he could smile again-but my question is how long he had the problem and when did it started.

So defdave this thread is not about if he had the problem or not -he had 100% a problem with his lip there is no discussion about that.

This thread is in the Groove Theory for music lovers and experts -the lip-thing is about his music and recording and not about other things so please stop the debate if he had a problem or not. He had the problem but we moved on years ago so we need not discuss this all again this thread is about MJ in the Studio and how the problem may have affected his work if he had the problem during the invincible session or any other session. That I don´t know because I don´t know exact when the problem started that is why I´m asking but not to start a discussion here if he had or hadn´t a problem.
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LOL

No I'm not a new fan. Unless you call being a fan since 1983 "new". No, Arty. I'm a long-time fan and most times I feel like a pretty old guy (unfortunately).

I didn't have internet access in 2000-2004, so I wasn't around to talk about this lip thing. But now that others here have mentioned it, I do remember (esp. from MSG) what that lip issue looked like. It made his face look sort of like plastic. It was sad.
 
Arty said:
So you think MJ had the lip problem while he recorded the invincible album and tracks like You Are my Life etc??? How do you know that???
The Lip-Problem started Christmas 2000 has he recorded You Are My Life after Christmas 2000???

And what do you mean with the way of singing these songs was affected by the problem???
Can you please give more information about your feelings. I´m going to play You are my Life right now to see what you mean
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You Are My Life was the last song recorded for Invincible. According to J Randy Taraborelli it was written and recorded only six weeks before the album dropped and replaced Shout on the tracklisting.

That would mean it was recorded in August/September 2001. I personally don't hear any difference in the quality of his vocals. I think he gives a fine vocal delivery on YAML.
 
MattyJam said:
That would mean it was recorded in August/September 2001. I personally don't hear any difference in the quality of his vocals. I think he gives a fine vocal delivery on YAML.
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Same here....it's one of my favourites, both lyrically and vocally :unsure: :heart:
 
Draliongirl said:
wow Arty, really cool thread! (sarcasm)
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If you dont like the thread and have nothing to offer then don't post.

I was never aware of this "lip thing" and have found this thread mostly informative.
I really wcho what some other posters have said, I really wish michael could have seen his outer beauty - it was just as radiant as his inner spirit.
 
I never knew about the "lip thing" but I remember seeing him for the first time in a while on MTV and thinking what the heck is wrong with his face. It was a very sad time indeed. In all honesty I can't watch anything from that time period because it makes me so uncomfortable to look at him. I never understood what he did or why he looked like that but he was a darn mess. He did start looking better though. This video is from late 2002. He doesn't smile big but he looks really good and seems to be comfortable with people in his face again.

 
Probably just too much botox. That's a side effect from the proceedure. Obviously MJ got better from it.
 
fridu_reyk said:
To my knowledge, You are my life was one the last, if not the last track recorded for Invincible, which was released on 2001, replacing SHOUT , as far as I recall.
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You are correct. When Shout was cut in favor of YAML, alot of people didn't understand why. I personally like both songs, and have always felt "Shout" should have been on there instead of say "Privacy" or "Heartbreaker" or "Invincible"
 
RetroRox said:
I never knew about the "lip thing" but I remember seeing him for the first time in a while on MTV and thinking what the heck is wrong with his face. It was a very sad time indeed. In all honesty I can't watch anything from that time period because it makes me so uncomfortable to look at him. I never understood what he did or why he looked like that but he was a darn mess. He did start looking better though. This video is from late 2002. He doesn't smile big but he looks really good and seems to be comfortable with people in his face again.
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:cry: He is so cute when he is talking to the fan! I wish I had the chance to look into his eyes like she did :cry:
 
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