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The main problem of History album is Teddy Riley's absence?

Richard76

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Certainly, History album was always one of the the most legendary Michael's creations. For some people, this album was the first ticket to world of Michael Jacksons music. Actually, I understand these people, History album has one of the most iconic songs, Michael have ever created. They Don't Care About Us, Earth Song, Stranger In Moscow, You Are Not Alone. Pure MJ classic. This album takes 5th place in my top. Although for me it's weaker than Thriller, still I like it very much. But there was always one thing, that I find weird and a little bit amusing about this album. When I listened to it for the first time (at that time I was newbie, didn't know anything about his albums), I thought this album was released before Dangerous... And when I found out, that it was released FOUR years after Dangerous, I was shocked! Because for me, this album sounded much much older. And recently I noticed, that Teddy Riley didn't even participate in creation process of History album. He literally produced 0 songs for this album. And now, I actually can clearly hear that in some of the songs. Well, first of all, I would like to make it clear that for me Teddy Riley was perfect choice for Michael, when he decided to create some rap groovy songs. All rap songs from Dangerous album sound perfect, very provessoinal and skillful... And I can't say the same thing about rap songs from History album. They all sound kinda.... cheap? Like they are trying to copy Teddy Riley's genius... And moreover they sound older... And maybe it's actually what Michael wanted? Because the whole History album sounds, like Michael decided to go back to his Jackson 5-Off The Wall times. Maybe he intentionally decided to produce History without Teddy Riley, because he wanted to make kinda classical and oldchool sounding for the album. I respect his choices, but still for me, this is one of the main reasons, why I prefer Dangerous album more than HIstory. Teddy Riley was a genius. His music always souned modern, catchy and really attractive. I would like to see History album, created with TR's participation. But actually, this is what Blood On The Dance Floor Album is .... Kinda History + Teddy Riley's retrospective😂
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I never thought there was anything uniquely wrong with the HIStory album, but more so the promotional issues it had in places like the U.S... Sure, there were a couple songs that were not as strong as the rest of the album, but the same can be said about Dangerous...
 
I think it is just a matter of preference to the listeners ear .. maybe maybe memories if people are lucky enough to have experienced it all.
I value TR because he created the 'New Jack swing' sound which was paramount to my youth.
 
KOPV said:
I never thought there was anything uniquely wrong with the HIStory album, but more so the promotional issues it had in places like the U.S... Sure, there were a couple songs that were not as strong as the rest of the album, but the same can be said about Dangerous...
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Maybe they were not strong, but they sounded professional. And also, all TR's songs from Dangerous are better than the same rap style songs from History. I don't know, maybe History's budget was less than Dangerous's. But still, even I Can't Let Her Get Away (the weakest TR's song from Dangerous) sounds better than Too Bad or This Time Around
 
Musically, HIStory was a good album. Some tracks could have been swapped out with others....but it's a good album.

I think the biggest mistake of the whole project was releasing it as a double set. The hits should have had their own separate release (which eventually happened in 2001). They should have released the hits CD, along with the mega mix videos in 94, and the new album in 95.
 
Prince Of Pop said:
Musically, HIStory was a good album. Some tracks could have been swapped out with others....but it's a good album.

I think the biggest mistake of the whole project was releasing it as a double set. The hits should have had their own separate release (which eventually happened in 2001). They should have released the hits CD, along with the mega mix videos in 94, and the new album in 95.
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Totally disagree with you. Releasing new songs with old ones was the main concept of History album: Past, Presen and Future! This is actually one of the reason, why I consider BOTDF as History vol. II: it has new songs with old ones (even though it's just terrible remixes, that I don't listen at all)
 
Richard76 said:
Maybe he intentionally decided to produce History without Teddy Riley, because he wanted to make kinda classical and oldchool sounding for the album.
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Teddy Riley spoke about that in one of his interviews:

Michael Jackson wanted Teddy Riley to work on the 'HIStory' album.

Michael Jackson even paid him some money in order to start working with him at that time on the 'HIStory' album.

But American record executive Jimmy Iovine (who was Teddy Riley's manager at that time) did not want Teddy Riley to be involved in the 'HIStory' album.

Jimmy Iovine demanded from Teddy Riley to focus on Blackstreet's 'Another Level' new studio album.

Jimmy Iovine even promised to give Teddy Riley anything that he wanted in order to work on the 'Another Level' album, and he eventually succeeded in taking Teddy Riley from Michael Jackson during that period.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Teddy Riley spoke about that in one of his interviews:

Michael Jackson wanted Teddy Riley to work on the 'HIStory' album.

Michael Jackson even paid him some money in order to start working with him at that time on the 'HIStory' album.

But American record executive Jimmy Iovine (who was Teddy Riley's manager at that time) did not want Teddy Riley to be involved in the 'HIStory' album.

Jimmy Iovine demanded from Teddy Riley to focus on Blackstreet's 'Another Level' new studio album.

Jimmy Iovine even promised to give Teddy Riley anything that he wanted in order to work on the 'Another Level' album, and he eventually succeeded in taking Teddy Riley from Michael Jackson during that period.
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Oh... That's sad... really really sad
 
Richard76 said:
Not true at all. I can clearly see TR's absence on songs like This Time Around, Money, Too Bad. They all sound kinda vapid. Teddy could make this tracks much better.
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I don't see it. Even if Teddy was involved, it wasn't gonna sound like Dangerous
 
mj_frenzy said:
But American record executive Jimmy Iovine (who was Teddy Riley's manager at that time) did not want Teddy Riley to be involved in the 'HIStory' album.

Jimmy Iovine demanded from Teddy Riley to focus on Blackstreet's 'Another Level' new studio album.

Jimmy Iovine even promised to give Teddy Riley anything that he wanted in order to work on the 'Another Level' album, and he eventually succeeded in taking Teddy Riley from Michael Jackson during that period.
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Very inflammatory way of putting it.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I would say he wasn't but I respect your opinion

MJ wanted Jam and Lewis first anyway. Teddy was his backup.
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Actually he was his first choice.... mj_frenzy said about that. Jam and Lewis was his backup. I wouldn't be surprised, if Michael was pissed off, when Teddy Riley rejected to help Michael with History album. Because apparently Michael really loved Teddy
 
Much of this debate is opinion based, let's keep that in mind. As far as production quality, I could not say HIStory is worse than Dangerous. The Dangerous album as a whole sounds more dated than HIStory, and that can be attributed more so to the tracks Riley worked on. It has much of that early 90's classic sound effects that were used for about 3 years. Let's not forget Riley produced on 1/2 of the album, and the 2 weakest tracks are Riley produced.

I think Riley did a great job, I just don't think Riley not being on HIStory was detrimental in anyway.. I personally go years without listening to 'I can't let her get away' or 'She Drives Me Wild'; and listen after I realize "It's been forever since I listened to...."
 
Maybe Janet convinced Michael to work with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis on HIStory.
 
Richard76 said:
Actually he was his first choice.... mj_frenzy said about that. Jam and Lewis was his backup. I wouldn't be surprised, if Michael was pissed off, when Teddy Riley rejected to help Michael with History album. Because apparently Michael really loved Teddy
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Meanwhile Jackson’s sister Janet had recently delivered a hard-stomping R&B-pop classic in 1989’s Rhythm Nation 1814. It's influence on her older brother was so great that he even asked Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis to produce Dangerous. Out of loyalty to Janet, they turned him down. According to his engineer, Bruce Swedien, Michael was searching for something “very street that young people would be able to identify with.”

pitchfork.com

Michael Jackson: Dangerous

At the time of Dangerous, Michael Jackson's universal popularity was on par with pizza and the polio vaccine. It was the last time that Michael Jackson was Michael Jackson.
pitchfork.com pitchfork.com
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Meanwhile Jackson’s sister Janet had recently delivered a hard-stomping R&B-pop classic in 1989’s Rhythm Nation 1814. It's influence on her older brother was so great that he even asked Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis to produce Dangerous. Out of loyalty to Janet, they turned him down. According to his engineer, Bruce Swedien, Michael was searching for something “very street that young people would be able to identify with.”

pitchfork.com

Michael Jackson: Dangerous

At the time of Dangerous, Michael Jackson's universal popularity was on par with pizza and the polio vaccine. It was the last time that Michael Jackson was Michael Jackson.
pitchfork.com pitchfork.com
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Teddy Riley was the best choice. Thank God, Michael ended up bringing him instead of them
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
According to his engineer, Bruce Swedien, Michael was searching for something “very street that young people would be able to identify with.”
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If that's the case, then Teddy Riley, Jam & Lewis, or LA & Babyface are all the wrong choices. For that, better producers would have been The Bomb Squad, Larry Smith, DJ Quick, Rick Rubin, Marley Marl, Erick Sermon, Guru, Scarface, Dr. Dre, etc.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
Quincy Jones was the best producer MJ ever worked with and it's not even close
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At least 50% of Dangerous would have been the same except produced by Q, MJ wrote the songs just like on Bad and Qs contribution was to polish MJs 90% finished demos
 
I love Teddy's productions but I don't think he was missed on HIStory. If anything not having him on the last album made his productions on BOTDF even more fresh and new. Blood and Ghosts didn't sound anything like HIStory
 
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