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THEY'RE BAD Michael Jackson hit out at The Beatles and Elvis in letters revealing fury over racism-

I can second christy. So many amazing posters back in the day. I could real the names off. Wonder where they are now. Lots of transcripts and audio saved by ppl
 
christy;4303843 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7CD_HNfbQA
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Thank you! I hadn’t seen this yet. :)

elusive moonwalker;4303847 said:
I can second christy. So many amazing posters back in the day. I could real the names off. Wonder where they are now. Lots of transcripts and audio saved by ppl
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Yeah, I noticed this when I browsed a couple of older topics. Completely different names than nowadays. Where did they all go? By the way, I’m always grateful for more info around the trial. I have the court transcripts of course, and a couple of other documents, but I think I still have more to learn. So if there are any interesting resources that may not be so common, please let me know. :)

OK, I realize I went a bit offtopic by now.

:eek:fftopic:

The reason I posted here to begin with was that I’m wondering if this Vincent dude is the person who sold the recent handwritten document to the tabloids. It would make sense, in my opinion, but of course it could just be a coincidence.

That’s why I brought it up here. :)
 
elusive moonwalker;4303980 said:
Yeah the board and posters were so good sneddon tried to shut us down
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Oh, I heard about that! Wasn’t he claiming the forum was a breach of the gag order or something along those lines? :D
 
Yeah. The board was so good at picking apart his case and sending stuff to mez etc that sneddon thought the board was directly connected to mj and his defence. So tried to get it shut down as a breach of the order

Everyone was very proud that it annoyed sneddon so much??
 
As wholesome as this conversation is, could we try and stay on track please. ;)
 
The fact that this guy is only tagging tabloids, the worst of the worst.....is very telling. And as for these notes by MJ, what kind of notes is he claiming them to be? Same as the LN stuff, completely harmless notes made out to look nefarious?
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier;4304172 said:
The fact that this guy is only tagging tabloids, the worst of the worst.....is very telling. And as for these notes by MJ, what kind of notes is he claiming them to be? Same as the LN stuff, completely harmless notes made out to look nefarious?
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Well, the reason I brought it up in this thread is that it’s possible that he’s the one who sold the “Elvis is not King” notes to the tabloids.

We know he is in possession of a 2005 juror notebook, but he never mentioned owning any notes by MJ – until earlier this year. According to an MJ Facebook group, he allegedly tweeted that he owned some notes by MJ that he was planning to release, but he deleted the Tweet recently.

All of a sudden the 4 page document appears in the tabloids – and this dude starts tagging them in his Tweets.

This is why I believe it’s a good idea to keep an eye on him.

Personally, I’m still not 100% convinced that the recently published handwriting is real. It may be, but it also may be a convincing fake. If it is a fake, it could have been a test to see if people believe it, and there may be more controversial stuff to come.

Again, I’m not saying that the document is fake, but it is possible. Too many coincidences, for my taste.
 
ScreenOrigami;4304177 said:
Well, the reason I brought it up in this thread is that it’s possible that he’s the one who sold the “Elvis is not King” notes to the tabloids.

We know he is in possession of a 2005 juror notebook, but he never mentioned owning any notes by MJ – until earlier this year. According to an MJ Facebook group, he allegedly tweeted that he owned some notes by MJ that he was planning to release, but he deleted the Tweet recently.

All of a sudden the 4 page document appears in the tabloids – and this dude starts tagging them in his Tweets.

This is why I believe it’s a good idea to keep an eye on him.

Personally, I’m still not 100% convinced that the recently published handwriting is real. It may be, but it also may be a convincing fake. If it is a fake, it could have been a test to see if people believe it, and there may be more controversial stuff to come.

Again, I’m not saying that the document is fake, but it is possible. Too many coincidences, for my taste.
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Christ. It just never ends does it? Unbelievable. If handwriting can be faked now too....it's becoming very scary. And if that's the case, yeah you can bet these notes will read very controversial, sigh.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Christ. It just never ends does it? Unbelievable. If handwriting can be faked now too....it's becoming very scary. And if that's the case, yeah you can bet these notes will read very controversial, sigh.
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Oh, forging handwriting is actually not that hard. Have you ever heard of the Hitler Diaries? A nobody from Germany forged a whole set of them, sold them to a magazine for millions, and fooled the whole world, including some experts. Forensic analysis finally proved them to be fake. :laughing:

Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Diaries

Anything for money, I suppose.
 
ScreenOrigami said:
Oh, forging handwriting is actually not that hard. Have you ever heard of the Hitler Diaries? A nobody from Germany forged a whole set of them, sold them to a magazine for millions, and fooled the whole world. Forensic analysis finally proved them to be fake. :laughing:

Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Diaries
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Damn! That's nuts. It could easily be fake as hell then.

I checked out the Twitter thread and he posted this photo a few days ago, whatever this is supposed to be.

https://twitter.com/VincentFAmen/status/1302429817711857664?s=19
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier;4304181 said:
Damn! That's nuts. It could easily be fake as hell then.
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Yeah, you can not 100% verify by only looking at the handwriting itself and the content that something was actually written by the person. Especially a person who is so well known.

Again – just to make sure people don’t misunderstand me – the document may very well be real. I’m just personally not convinced.

An interesting detail about the Hitler diary case:

Before the diaries, Kujau had already forged smaller items like notes and letters. When a page of one of the diaries was sent to the first forensic analysis, the handwriting sample they received for comparison was also one of Kujau’s forged pieces. That’s why of course the first analysis returned a match.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Diaries#Initial_testing_and_verification;_steps_towards_publication

We don’t know how many of MJ’s handwrittten notes out there are actually authentic. We may be comparing newly published things to notes that have already been forged. Who knows?
 
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ScreenOrigami;4304183 said:
Yeah, you can not 100% verify by only looking at the handwriting itself and the content that something was actually written by the person. Especially a person who is so well known.

Again – just to make sure people don’t misunderstand me – the document may very well be real. I’m just personally not convinced.
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It's just odd that this Vincent guy is doing this. He's a friend of the Cascio family right? A family that has always defended Michael, unless I'm mistaken. But yeah, if the document IS fake and we may never really find out, if he comes with more notes and they are bad.....it could get ugly. Haters and tabloids alike will love it.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier;4304185 said:
It's just odd that this Vincent guy is doing this. He's a friend of the Cascio family right? A family that has always defended Michael, unless I'm mistaken. But yeah, if the document IS fake and we may never really find out, if he comes with more notes and they are bad.....it could get ugly. Haters and tabloids alike will love it.
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Yes, as far as I know, Frank introduced him into MJ’s circles. Some fans on Twitter seem to be surprised about this recent development. He used to be supportive of MJ, and he still appears to flip-flop from Tweet to Tweet.

It may only be a coincidence. Then again, the document has to come from someone, after all. Someone who would sell such a document to the tabloids instead of auctioning it off.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier;4304188 said:
Do you have a Twitter link to that MJ fan that wrote the first part? I'd like to read that discussion.
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Which first part? Excuse me for not understanding your question, it’s late and I’m quite tired. :)
 
ScreenOrigami;4304192 said:
Oh! Sure, let me check. I’ll update this post when I find it. :)

Here you go: https://twitter.com/Tashawithatea/status/1302163939401388032

These are MJ advocates that I regard as trustworthy.

OK, need sleep now. Good night! :D
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Thank you!

Yeah lots of good folks on Twitter. I read through the comments just now. It's crazy how far people are willing to take this. If this Vincent had really damning stuff, like notes and what not I'm sure he could have presented it when it actually mattered, during the trial. But now years after his passing, years after the trial and he comes with this.

This can only be seen as a move for money, nothing else. I'm sure the Cascios won't appreciate this.
 
I think it is legit. This could easily be something MJ wrote for himself - not for anyone else to read - to motivate himself.

There is nothing cruel og wrong about the note. - I have no idea what MJ meant by "blacks are ugly" - that is not true IMO, but that is the only controversial bit in this note. - And since MJ was black it is not such a big deal. Noone could/would ever claim MJ was a racist or anything.

MJ was very very right. - Powerful (white people mostly back then) people owned the record studios - and the radios. If you control what is played on the radio you control what is popular and what is mainstream music. - No doubt blacks have been denied air-time on radio - just like MTV would not play anything with black artist before MJ...

Had Elvis been black I highly doubt he would have been such a huge star. - the time he became big I could see white executives denying Elvis to be played in the radio had he been black. - I hope (and think?) it's not like that anymore, but back then - 50-60 years ago, there was so much racism going on it's unbelievable.

When the Rat Pack performed one of the artist in the band - Sammy Davies Junior - had to enter the hotel thru the kitchen and he was not allowed to sleep att he hotel he performed on... because he was black!! - That's how the world was back then. Black people should give their seat in the bud to whites... - This is in the US.

So back to MJ's note - I see absolutely nothing wrong with the note. It is unfortunately historically correct. White people made white artist big and succesful - even though there were better and bigger black talents. - So MJ's desire to tear down that wall seems natural to me. He just wanted to be judged on his art, not his colour. - I guess that's what we all want.
 
alot people tend to forget Elvis helped black people he also when to a black church. black people did listen to Elvis but like racism at the time people told Elvis not to sing his song anymore because it was "black" music.
 
NatureCriminal7896 said:
alot people tend to forget Elvis helped black people he also when to a black church. black people did listen to Elvis but like racism at the time people told Elvis not to sing his song anymore because it was "black" music.
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I have absolutely no problem with Elvis. I have no doubt he was a good person. - But it does not change the fact that back then it would have been harder for him to get succes if he had been black. - that's not a fact, that's just my opinion. I enjoy some (a few) Elvis songs - also his version of My Way (even though I prefer Frank Sinatra) I have nothing against Elvis. - I just think MJ had a point that white musicians had better changes to become huge stars back then. I think MJ was correct - and that motivated MJ I think to work even harder to break down these stupid racial barriers and become the biggest star in the World. - Judged for his talent and art - not the colour of his skin.
 
True it would have been harder if he was black but i'm saying he did help some black people. while we didn't know Elvis personally. he does get alot fame with things are not true.

a few months ago i realize Elvis did not steal songs from black artists he was inspired by them and the Beatles didn't either. i always thought they did.
 
Elvis didnt write any of his songs to steal. As tom parker said and a note mj had. If i can getx a white man that sings like a black man ill make a million bucks
 
Questions to the people who think the documents is authentic. I would really like to hear your theories:

Who do you think has sold the document to the tabloids?
How did that person obtain the document?
Why didn’t the person release it earlier?
Why tabloids instead of auction?
Why does the person not make his or her name public?

I believe these are questions we should ask, no matter which side we’re on regarding the authenticity.
 
Maybe I missed something, but I don’t see anything where Michael said “blacks are ugly”. FTR, there is no way in hell that Michael would say something like that. I can believe that he would say that blacks have been PERCEIVED as “ugly” by OTHER races.
 
ScreenOrigami;4304365 said:
Questions to the people who think the documents is authentic. I would really like to hear your theories:

Who do you think has sold the document to the tabloids?
How did that person obtain the document?
Why didn’t the person release it earlier?
Why tabloids instead of auction?
Why does the person not make his or her name public?

I believe these are questions we should ask, no matter which side we’re on regarding the authenticity.
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TBH, these are not questions anyone but the leaker can answer and there is no need for all of us to be asking these. Each of us has an internal threshold of credibility when it comes to Michael, from longs years of experience and if that threshold is met, we think it is authentic. No one person can become the sole arbiter of authenticity as you've tried to become in this thread. It's tiresome reading through your repetitive posts questioning authenticity. We get it, you have doubts. Many of us have been fans all our lives and we've come to terms with who Michael was, how he was represented and what he went through. He's been gone for 11 years - we fought on his behalf when he was around. New fans and old may want to fight that fight forever but please stop lecturing others on what they should think and believe and discuss regarding Michael Jackson.

I accept Michael, warts and all and think he's an incredibly amazing person - still human at the end of the day. There is nothing at all wrong with anything he said in these notes - they are private thoughts and hence no need to get defensive on his behalf.
 
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