THEY'RE BAD Michael Jackson hit out at The Beatles and Elvis in letters revealing fury over racism-

[Mikky Dee]

I guess Michael was uneducated

LMAOOOOOOO!!!

Yes, Michael thought so little of The Beatles that he gushed over them, asked Paul to make music with him, bought their catalogue, and covered one of their songs.

All of that was calculated on Michael's part - purely business moves - to help him get his foot in the door on the white side of the music industry.

Now we have all the pages- and it all looks like genuine MJ...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...atles-Elvis-Presley-MTV-scathing-letters.html

Absolutely! Never in doubt, in my opinion.

 

[Mikky Dee]

This is about the most PRO BLACK words EVER out of MJ and I'm loving it. Seeing the rest I'm convinced these are his genuine notes.

He spoke it into existence, he prophesied it over himself - then HE ACTUALLY ACHIEVED IT ALL!!!!!!! And they are trying so very hard to destroy his legacy. The daily mail comments have bitter white people talking 'bout "why did he make himself white", "he's not better than the beatles". STFU to every last one of em.

MJ is greater than Elvis and The Beatles combined

YES to ALL of this!!!

 

[mj_frenzy]

Hmm... I don't remember Michael ever being arrogant or acting arrogantly in public. Defiant? Yes.

Michael Jackson was arrogant on certain occasions, such as when he compared himself publicly to Jesus (in terms of both loving the children).

He was also arrogant when he used to tell people that he wanted each studio album that would release to sell more than 100 million copies.

That was one. MJ was called MONARCH of Pop by one and Prince of Pop by one, what I am talking about these titles was not stuck to him like titles like Queen of Soul (Arthea); Godfather of Soul; The king like Elvis until the Dangerous. Look during the BAD era, MJ was not called no King until the Dangerous era. During Dangerous, they just said King of Pop and even then, many called MJ "self proclaim" despite MJ earned it (really that title is an injustice to MJ for what he was. What Liz said was more fitting (King of Rock, Pop, and Soul) even two faced Oprah pretty much said the title King of Pop is limited to what MJ was.

Michael Jackson was jealous and he wanted a moniker, like the ones that Elvis Presley, or Bruce Springsteen had.

Actually, he wanted a better moniker than the ‘Gloved One’ that he had during mid-‘80s.

So, he asked from Bob Jones to give him a better moniker, and Bob Jones came up with the ‘King Of Pop, Rock and Soul’ title, which Michael Jackson shortened to just ‘King Of Pop’.

Bob Jones spoke about that:

“That King Of Pop shit. I named him. I named him the King Of Pop, Rock and Soul. He changed it just to the King Of Pop” (Bob Jones)

Also Bob Jones made Elizabeth Taylor to call Michael Jackson publicly as ‘King Of Pop, Rock and Soul’ (like, during the Soul Train Music Awards in 1989).

 

[Mikky Dee]

I don't really see anything wrong with it. It's a private motivational note and I think a lot of the things he was feeling he was justified in feeling

I don't see anything wrong with it, either. Michael's notes/writings that were left behind are filled with these kinds of private motivational thoughts. As I said upthread, he believed in visualisation and goal-setting and he truly believed that he could make something happen, by "seeing it".

I loooooveeeee these writings by him. So POWERFUL! The way he manifested his dreams is very, very inspiring...HE DID IT!!!!.

MJ owned The Beatles music, and married Elvis' daughter. The power. *Chefs kiss*

I could not agree with you more. THE POWER, indeed.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

No matter if this particular manuscript is real or not, what can be said is that MJ did indeed want to claim his rightful place on the covers of the big magazines, and it definitely wasn’t smooth sailing. Here’s how it worked out, a few months further down the timeline, when the Bad album was released and received mixed reviews, he did indeed get his covers:

MJ seemed particularly unhappy with People magazine, so he sent them an open letter, which for all I know is deemed authentic (please correct me if I’m wrong):

As an empathetic person, he had obviously hoped that talking about how he felt about the situation would tug at the heartstrings of those journalists. In reality, though, doing something like this usually results in more bullying. :boohoo

The letter was reproduced or quoted in magazines and newspapers around the world and the reaction was certainly not what MJ had hoped for. Here’s one example:

So, if MJ had set out to show everyone who’s the Boss, this was definitely a setback for him.

All of this happened around the time MJ embarked on his world tour. Due to his impressive shows on the ’87 leg of the tour that simply couldn’t be ignored, the headlines got much better:

Yet, in Rolling Stone’s “1987 Yearbook” – although he is on the same page as “Boss” Bruce Springsteen – we’re right back to talking about his appearance:

So, this is how it all worked out in 1987. It was one huge uphill battle, for sure, but he also personally made a bad PR decision by writing that letter to People magazine. That was definitely not a Boss move.

If the newly surfaced letter is real, what can be said is that he struggled to consistently follow through with his King image.

 

[MikeJac2005]

So, this is how it all worked out in 1987. It was one huge uphill battle, for sure, but he also personally made a bad PR decision by writing that letter to People magazine. That was definitely not a Boss move.

If the newly surfaced letter is real, what can be said is that he struggled to consistently follow through with his King image.

Dude was human, that's all. He made mistakes, and sure he had to carve out the KOP title for himself but I'm not mad at it - he had a goal and largely achieved it. Mind you, your article shows them calling him KOP as early as '87??? The media were vile though, as they always are. The motives behind why are are multifaceted in Michael's case...

 

[Anna]

All of that was calculated on Michael's part - purely business moves - to help him get his foot in the door on the white side of the music industry.

The catalogue is business, but the fact that he loved The Beatles has nothing to do with business. I don't know why it makes you so salty.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Dude was human, that's all. He made mistakes, and sure he had to carve out the KOP title for himself but I'm not mad at it - he had a goal and largely achieved it. Mind you, your article shows them calling him KOP as early as '87??? The media were vile though, as they always are. The motives behind why are are multifaceted in Michael's case...

Of course. I’m not judging him, just pointing out that this particular move didn’t move him towards his goal.

And yes, they sometimes called him King of Pop even as early as 1984, but as terrell pointed out upthread, it was just one title of many at the time. I’ve seen maybe a handful of articles calling him KoP before the 1990’s.

 

[MikeJac2005]

The catalogue is business, but the fact that he loved The Beatles has nothing to do with business. I don't know why it makes you so salty.

I mean, from these letters sounds like he thought they were overrated. As do I lol

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Can someone please start a thread “Why I Think The Beatles Are Overrated” in Anything Goes if you’re all so passionate about this debate? :laughing:

 

[MikeJac2005]

Can someone please start a thread “Why I Think The Beatles Are Overrated” in Anything Goes if you’re all so passionate about this debate? :laughing:

Lmao Michael started it in these notes. "Elvis is not king" - Michael Jackson, 1987

 

[Anna]

I mean, from these letters sounds like he thought they were overrated. As do I lol

Did you miss the note I posted earlier? Michael loved their music and songwriting. I didn't pick this notion out of thin air. It's from his own mouth, his own words, his own actions. Do you want more receipts or something? Man, I'm so tired...

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Did you miss the note I posted earlier? Michael loved their music and songwriting. I didn't pick this notion out of thin air. It's from his own mouth, his own words, his own actions. Do you want more receipts or something? Man, I'm so tired...

Exactly. What Michael is saying in his letter is that it isn’t a fair competition, because the critics won’t even consider a Black artist for the same level of acclaim. As he says on the last page: “I want what’s fair.”

 

[myosotis]

No matter if this particular manuscript is real or not, what can be said is that MJ did indeed want to claim his rightful place on the covers of the big magazines, and it definitely wasn’t smooth sailing. Here’s how it worked out, a few months further down the timeline, when the Bad album was released and received mixed reviews, he did indeed get his covers:

MJ seemed particularly unhappy with People magazine, so he sent them an open letter, which for all I know is deemed authentic (please correct me if I’m wrong):

As an empathetic person, he had obviously hoped that talking about how he felt about the situation would tug at the heartstrings of those journalists. In reality, though, doing something like this usually results in more bullying. :boohoo

The letter was reproduced or quoted in magazines and newspapers around the world and the reaction was certainly not what MJ had hoped for. Here’s one example:


So, if MJ had set out to show everyone who’s the Boss, this was definitely a setback for him.

All of this happened around the time MJ embarked on his world tour. Due to his impressive shows on the ’87 leg of the tour that simply couldn’t be ignored, the headlines got much better:

Yet, in Rolling Stone’s “1987 Yearbook” – although he is on the same page as “Boss” Bruce Springsteen – we’re right back to talking about his appearance:

So, this is how it all worked out in 1987. It was one huge uphill battle, for sure, but he also personally made a bad PR decision by writing that letter to People magazine. That was definitely not a Boss move.

If the newly surfaced letter is real, what can be said is that he struggled to consistently follow through with his King image.

In the Rolling Stone issue for 24th Sept. 1987 (the cartoon cover above), there is mention of Elvis etc in an interview with Dileo:

''The Bad song “Smooth Criminal” opens with the sound of Michael’s heartbeat and Dileo breathing heavily; on the Bad inner sleeve Michael put a photo of himself and Dileo in silhouette with a caption the reads, ANOTHER GREAT TEAM. “Elvis and the Colonel are in our minds a lot … the Beatles and Brian Epstein … Abbott and Costello,” Dileo explains.
Michael and his manager talk on the phone constantly (Dileo has said “eighty-two times a day&#8221, spend most of their days together, live less than five minutes apart. Dileo plays understanding father to Michael’s impetuous ten-year-old.''

https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/is-michael-jackson-for-real-102872/


*Just out of interest: Another little excerpt from the above article states that Oprah was one of the people who 'popped into' the BAD recording sessions, which ended around June 1987.

''Throughout the sessions, celebrity friends were encouraged to stop by to relieve the tedium: Spielberg, Sean Lennon, Emmanuel Lewis, Robert De Niro and Oprah Winfrey all popped in.''

Oprah recorded a TV programme in Forsyth, where Black marchers who were celebrating MLK day (in January 1987) were stoned by local KKK members, as previously mentioned in the MJ notes. I wonder if MJ and Oprah might have discussed this- eg if she visited the BAD studios after the end of January 1987.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WErjPmFulQ0

 

[MikeJac2005]

Did you miss the note I posted earlier? Michael loved their music and songwriting. I didn't pick this notion out of thin air. It's from his own mouth, his own words, his own actions. Do you want more receipts or something? Man, I'm so tired...

I didn't say he didn't think they were good, clearly he enjoyed or respected their work - but he said they are overrated. "The Beatles being the best - Yes these guys were good, but they weren't better singers or dancers than the blacks."

fin

 

[dethorro]

I didn't say he didn't think they were good, clearly he enjoyed or respected their work - but he said they are overrated. "The Beatles being the best. - Yes these guys were good, but they weren't better singers or dancers than the blacks."

fin

He didn’t ever say they were overrated. He admired them a lot. The fact that they weren’t better singers or dancers than some other black singers doesn’t necessarily mean that they were overrated...it can mean that the blacks were underrated (which they were).

 

[ScreenOrigami]

''The Bad song “Smooth Criminal” opens with the sound of Michael’s heartbeat and Dileo breathing heavily; on the Bad inner sleeve Michael put a photo of himself and Dileo in silhouette with a caption the reads, ANOTHER GREAT TEAM. “Elvis and the Colonel are in our minds a lot … the Beatles and Brian Epstein … Abbott and Costello,” Dileo explains.

Abbott and Costello :laughing:

Great point about the Colonel and Brian Epstein. They were right up there with them, while at the same time demonstrating racial harmony within their own team.

*Just out of interest: Another little excerpt from the above article states that Oprah was one of the people who 'popped into' the BAD recording sessions, which ended around June 1987.

''Throughout the sessions, celebrity friends were encouraged to stop by to relieve the tedium: Spielberg, Sean Lennon, Emmanuel Lewis, Robert De Niro and Oprah Winfrey all popped in.''

Oprah recorded a TV programme in Forsyth, where Black marchers who were celebrating MLK day (in January 1987) were stoned by local KKK members, as previously mentioned in the MJ notes. I wonder if MJ and Oprah might have discussed this- eg if she visited the BAD studios after the end of January 1987.

This is an amazing find, thank you! Before I read about the Forsyth incident, I had no idea that the racism problem in the USA had gotten to such extremes at the time. Michael’s reaction makes absolute sense in this context.

Did you notice the graffiti on the car? This might have inspired the CGI graffiti in the “censored” version of Black or White.

Great finds! I love playing detective with this community.

 

[myosotis]

^ Abbott and Costello made a few 'comedy horror' movies, including 'Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein', which also starred Bela Lugosi and Lon Chaney.

The film starts with a transformation into a wolf-man;

and ends with Vincent Price as the 'Invisible man', with a rather familiar laugh.... at about 2.18 here:

 

[ScreenOrigami]

^ Abbott and Costello made a few 'comedy horror' movies, including 'Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein', which also starred Bela Lugosi and Lon Chaney.

Wow, that brings back memories! Must have been ages since I saw that stuff, so I would never have noticed these connections to MJ without your post.

In other news: This appears to be the Estate’s reaction to the newly surfaced document:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In the summer of 1987, Music and Media magazine in the UK knew that Michael&#8217;s domination was ready to continue&#8230;.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/kingofpop?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#kingofpop</a> <a href="https://t.co/gm4vvakH3a">pic.twitter.com/gm4vvakH3a</a></p>&mdash; Michael Jackson (@michaeljackson) <a href="https://twitter.com/michaeljackson/status/1298289032930234369?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 25, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[virginia_woolf]

Hopefully the letter is authentic. Because if it isn't but the media convince the public it is we can only imagine what kind of "MJ letters" they will produce in the future.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

So, what is everyone&#8217;s opinion about the 200,000,000 albums? Every other source that I have seen claims that MJ&#8217;s goal was 100,000,000 and that this was even written on his mirror. 200,000,000 seems like a rather lofty goal, even by Michael&#8217;s standards.

 

[Jackson Rules]

So, what is everyone’s opinion about the 200,000,000 albums? Every other source that I have seen claims that MJ’s goal was 100,000,000 and that this was even written on his mirror. 200,000,000 seems like a rather lofty goal, even by Michael’s standards.

He underrated himself because he sold more than 300.000.000 records

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

 

[ScreenOrigami]

He underrated himself because he sold more than 300.000.000 records

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

I think the 100,000,000 on the mirror and 200,000,000 in the letter were both referring to Bad album sales alone, as he&#8217;s talking about what he must do do prove himself with this album.

By the way, in the letter it did originally say 100,000,000. He changed it to 200,000,000.

 

[Mikky Dee]

Can someone please start a thread &#8220;Why I Think The Beatles Are Overrated&#8221; in Anything Goes if you&#8217;re all so passionate about this debate? :laughing:

As The Beatles and Elvis are mentioned by Michael in the letter which is the main topic of the thread, some tangential discussion about our interpretations of what he meant, etc. is fine in here. Please do not go down the path of backseat moderating.

 

[Mikky Dee]

The catalogue is business, but the fact that he loved The Beatles has nothing to do with business. I don't know why it makes you so salty.

LOL. I'm only salty at the way I've been spoken to, because some people don't like, or don't agree with my opinion, when there are clearly others who share the same opinion. I'm not a lone, uneducated voice just shouting into the wind.

Serious question for the experts:- Is there actual evidence that he LOVED The Beatles, or do people assume that, because he worked with Paul McCartney and bought the catalogue? I will certainly revise my view that it was all purely a business move, if I see something that is revision-worthy.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Serious question for the experts:- Is there actual evidence that he LOVED The Beatles, or do people assume that, because he worked with Paul McCartney and bought the catalogue? I will certainly revise my view that it was all purely a business move, if I see some something revision-worthy.

Off the top of my head:

---

1977 Timothy White Interview

I love Paul McCartney. With his own records he proves he’s the most talented Beatle. When you take any one of them away, it gets kinda weaker and weaker, but as a whole, it was always the best. Paul – him and John Lennon were dynamite.

1982 Smash Hits Magazine

My favourite English group will always be The Beatles ‘cause they had real good songs. A lot of the bands today have more musical sounds and different sounds and things you’ve never heard, but melody and great lyrics is not there. They always had great melody and lyrics - even if it was just a harmonica playing in the background, the melody was the feature of the whole song. […] My favourite Beatles song is Paul’s favourite Beatles song. […] “Yesterday”. It always touched me the most. It was always special to me. I think it’s wonderful, the melody and the music and the whole feeling. […] That whole ‘60s period to me - with Simon and Garfunkel, The Beatles and Motown - was the best musical time in history. […] ‘Cause they were real songs. Real good songs.

1988 Moonwalk

I still get goose bumps when I hear the Beatles sing "All You Need Is Love." I've always wished that song could be an anthem for the world.

---

There’s more, but it’s late over here and I need to sleep.

 

[Jackson Rules]

He also used to put "Here Comes The Sun" before the beginning of his concerts during the Dangerous Tour

 

[ScreenOrigami]

&#8230; and turned to their music during hard times.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MEUduNdQguA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don&#8217;t think he sang it that way just with his bank account in mind.

It&#8217;s from &#8220;She&#8217;s Leaving Home&#8221;. This is the original:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VaBPY78D88g" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Michael writes in &#8220;Moonwalk&#8221; about their trip first to Motown:

&#8220;We turned onto I-94, and the Gary station faded into a Kalamazoo station. We began flipping around, looking for Beatle music on CKLW from Windsor, Ontario, Canada.&#8221;

And the Jackson 5 later occasionally sang &#8220;Let it be&#8221;:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DTg2QetpBbc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edit: Here&#8217;s the original, for comparison.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QDYfEBY9NM4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Electro]

And regarding Elvis... not sure how much that actually says about Michael liking his music...
But he turned up with Lisa and Janet for a tribute show in 1994.