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'This Is It' Producer -- Star Witness in MJ Prelim

ginvid said:
Can everyone please not double post . Please edit your last post.

Also, I think TMZ is to be taken with a grain of salt as always. But (a big but) if they are correct, I am happy Kenny is speaking out even though it does put him in a bad light of sorts.
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Why would it necessarily be damaging or putting him in a bad light? If he saw a problem or thought there was one and confronted Michael with it, why would that be bad. If there was yelling or whatever, we don't know yet why or where the yelling was coming from.

Again, Michael wasn't some child whose feelings couldn't take being challenged. We don't have enough info to say this puts anyone other than Murray in a bad light. Let's just wait as suggested because you are right about the source of this.
 
Ortega's testimony is important, because prosecutors will argue MJ was fine before Murray began pumping him with drugs the day he died
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which contridicts the article as it says mj was cold and hd the shakes b4 the 23rd-25th.

anyway we should know whether this is correct soon. sick of all the talk its time for ppl to walk the walk
 
classic said:
Why would it necessarily be damaging or putting him in a bad light? If he saw a problem or thought there was one and confronted Michael with it, why would that be bad. If there was yelling or whatever, we don't know yet why or where the yelling was coming from.

Again, Michael wasn't some child whose feelings couldn't take being challenged. We don't have enough info to say this puts anyone other than Murray in a bad light. Let's just wait as suggested because you are right about the source of this.
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If you see from my quote I said it put him a bad light of sorts. I am not saying it makes anyone else culpable but Murray. Nor did I say MJ was child who could not be confronted. (Where did you see all of that in my post, out of curiousity?) All I remember is that when MJ died Kenny was one of the individuals who said that everything had been fine with MJ. IF the source is correct, it at least shows that at one time Kenny recognized that something was possible wrong. And that Kenny was more interested in making sure MJ peformed. I do remember it being said that there was a lot of pressure on Kenny to make sure MJ performed.

Now, in don't know what steps Kenny took or if he placed MJ performing over MJ's well being. And we only have TMZ which can be hit or miss and does not go into a lot of details, but it doers have the potential to not look good for Kenny. I am just applauding him for speaking up. I hope he is truthful and i hope others do the same.

I'm afraid we won't know all particulars until after the trail is complete and we try to piece things together.

Long story short, I am taking a neutral stance here until further info and I am hoping for the best.
 
Soundmind said:
They are not saying he was in ill health, they are saying MJ started to suffer at the hands of Murray. He was not the "responsible" doctor he is claiming to be. Let's see what Murray said at that meeting.
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Sure they gonna blame Murray for everything. It is the best way for AEG to avoid resopsibilities. Murray is a very small figure on this chess board.
 
Ok, before this even becomes an issue, I am asking that memebers please not delve into conspiracy waters.

Thank you.
 
Ok. I will put it this way. If Ortega saw that Michael a week before Michael passed did not feel well, why Ortega did not call 911?

Why AEG did not stop ALL rehearsals immediately? WHY?

I remember, how many on this board were saying that MJ was healthy and ready to perform. No he was NOT. Now when they are proven wrong by Ortega, what kind of theory those folks will support now? Now everybody should keep in mind that in TII movie we saw ill Michael and Ortega just proved this fact by himself. When me and other fans on this board were saying that MJ did not look healthy in TII we were ignored by majority like we were crazy conspiracy teorists. Now, here we go again… .
 
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Let's not descend into arguing here. That's not what we should be doing today. Kenny is testifying so lets discuss what is mentioned, not go into all these conspiracy theories about AEG.
 
Asedora;3172442 said:
Ok. I will put it this way. If Ortega saw that Michael a week before Michael passed did not feel well, why Ortega did not call 911?

Why AEG did not stop ALL rehearsals immediately? WHY?

I remember, how many on this board were saying that MJ was healthy and ready to perform. No he was NOT. Now when they are proven wrong by Ortega, what kind of theory those folks will support now? Now everybody should keep in mind that in TII movie we saw ill Michael and Ortega just proved this fact by himself. When me and other fans on this board were saying that MJ did not look healthy in TII we were ignored by majority like we were crazy conspiracy teorists. Now, here we go again… .
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i agree
also remeber that is was said that most of the rehersal footage was taken from the 22-24th of june(the parts with him and the dancers on stage). i dnt believe that all of what karen faye n that other guy was saying was all lies. its much more to this story than any of us know. its also much more than the autopsy report can show also. i think aeg knew something wasnt right when mj would be late and missing rehersals. im sure they also seen all of those vids of him coming in and out of kleins office also. they just wanted to make sure that they could get him to london to do those shows and make some money. i dnt think they cared about his health 2 much
 
What's the riot act? I tried to Wiki it but something abt militia came up
 
ginvid said:
Also, I think TMZ is to be taken with a grain of salt as always. But (a big but) if they are correct, I am happy Kenny is speaking out even though it does put him in a bad light of sorts.
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I don't like tabloids either, but as far as I know TMZ is usually pretty accurate with legal stuff and they also seem to get a lot of stuff before anybody else does. Isn't Harvey a lawyer?
 
If this is true, then I will break down and start crying again. This is getting more and more scary by the minute.


And I'm wondering if Murray saying terrible things about/to Michael during that meeting fits a pattern. I remember hearing something about Murray being at a club and trash-talking Michael to one of the dancers. Is that right?
 
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Milka said:
I don't like tabloids either, but as far as I know TMZ is usually pretty accurate with legal stuff and they also seem to get a lot of stuff before anybody else does. Isn't Harvey a lawyer?
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Harvey is a lwyer and TMZ can be accurate based on a legal aspect. But TMZ in this case is not reporting on what the law is, they are reporting on what a person is going to say based on some source. There sources have known to be wrong at times. Therefore, we have to wait and see what Kenny actually says before we can say TMZ is correct. So we take their sources and what they say with a grain of salt.
 
ginvid said:
Harvey is a lwyer and TMZ can be accurate based on a legal aspect. But TMZ in this case is not reporting on what the law is, they are reporting on what a person is going to say based on some source. There sources have known to be wrong at times. Therefore, we have to wait and see what Kenny actually says before we can say TMZ is correct. So we take their sources and what they say with a grain of salt.
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Ok, yeah, we should always wait until after the testimony. I'm sure this will go to trial, and if it does, I don't know how that works, can new court transcripts be found on the net daily? Or do we have to wait until after the trial? I want to see this "first hand" and not just rely on the press.
 
If you look in the update thread (no discussion) they are already posting what they are saying. Kenny has already testified. Staff is trying to find transcripts to keep everyone updated. Alvarez is testifying now.

Spider-Man;3172587 said:
What's the riot act? I tried to Wiki it but something abt militia came up
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Q From Gloria Spielman: What is the origin of the expression to read someone the riot act?

A These days, it’s just a figurative expression meaning to give an individual or a group a severe scolding or caution, or to announce that some unruly behaviour must cease. But originally it was a deadly serious injunction to a rioting crowd to disperse.

The Riot Act was passed by the British government in 1714 and came into force in 1715. This was the period of the Catholic Jacobite riots, when mobs opposed to the new Hanoverian king, George I, were attacking the meeting houses of dissenting groups. There was a very real threat of invasion by supporters of the deposed Stuart kings — as actually happened later that year and also in 1745. The government feared uprisings, and passed a draconian law making it a felony if a group of more than twelve persons refused to disperse more than an hour after magistrates had told them to do so. To invoke the law, the magistrates had to read the proclamation contained in the Act aloud to the mob, something that often required more courage than they could summon up:

Our sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the act made in the first year of King George, for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God save the King.

The pains or penalties were penal servitude for life or not less than three years, or imprisonment with or without hard labour for up to two years. The Act remained in force for a surprisingly long time, only finally being repealed in 1973, though it had been effectively defunct for decades.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-rea1.htm
 
ginvid said:
If you look in the update thread (no discussion) they are already posting what they are saying. Kenny has already testified. Staff is trying to find transcripts to keep everyone updated. Alvarez is testifying now.
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Thanks, I just started to look through the threads and started with reading this one. Will look through the other ones as well. Will probably keep me busy all night (it's almost 9 pm over here).
 
Well happy trailings. It is only 3pm here. You can also go to sleep and wake up before the rest of us do and will be up to date that way as well.

Take care!
 
ginvid said:
Well happy trailings. It is only 3pm here. You can also go to sleep and wake up before the rest of us do and will be up to date that way as well.

Take care!
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:) I'm a night owl anyway, so I'll probably follow most of the next 2 weeks "live". I'm glad that I'm here, because this is probably one of the best places on the net to get all the information and probably more details than in the press.
 
Kenny just said what he saw.and he witness Michael being fine before Murray came abord and a doctor that didn't care about his pacient.
 
from what ive heard from people that were there in the room, KO talked alot of BS that had NOTHING to do with the case.



the prosecution opened with the facts of the case as we all know it.
Murray gave propofol without proper equipment, etc., gave it for two months, all according to Murray's own statements, Defense made no opening statement:
Mrs Jackson, Jackie, LaToya were present, Randy was off very sick!!

First witness Kenny Ortega was a complete set up, the case seemed like it was The Jackson family case against AEG, it was obvious to see Kenny had been coached so hard, he could not say anything else:
Questions were put to him, his answers were not relevant to the case,
He was not truthful, according to him, Michael met with him had dinner with him discussed this great come back tour, and wanted him on the team, BEFORE THIS IS IT according to KO!! BUT, Kenny was not hired by MICHAEL until late APRIL,, Michael signed up with AEG months before that, if Michael had wanted Kenny from the beginning he would have been hired him from the beginning!! Defense were quick to pick up on this,
Kenny went on to say, Michael knew it was 50 shows, again not relevant to the question asked, AND A LIE!!
Kenny said Michael told me, he loved India and Japan, and he wanted to do World tour, NOT TRUE!! NOT RELEVANT!!
There was a meeting 20th June, with Michael, Kenny, Delio, Murray and Phillips because Michael was not showing up at shows,MICHAEL WAS THREATENED IF HE DOES NOT SHOW UP, AEG WILL PULL THE PLUG ON HIM, but Kenny said that meeting was because of him(Kenny) was center point of that meeting because he had sent Michael home due illness and Conrad Murray was not happy with Ortega playing doctors!! LIE!!
Kenny further denied yelling at Michael, then changed his story to say, well we had a loud discussion because i was worried about Michael,
KENNY ORTEGA YOU ARE A LIAR, THIS IS NOT A AEG HEARING!!
Kenny further said he DID NOT KNOW what position Randy Phillips held with AEG!!! Kenny did not answer ANY question put to him, he either did not remember or was vague,or i dont know, or i dont understand, he did not commit himself to one straight answer, HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT MICHAELS SCHEDULE WAS!!! only admitted Michael had a schedule after being questioned few times,
BASICALLY HE WAS A WASTE OF TIME, I DONT KNOW WHY PROSECUTION CALLED HIM, oh Yes i do, FOR AEG!!! defense grilled him more then prosecution!!!

Michael Amir answered question on how he found out about Michael being sick, call from Murray. could not remember much as it was so long ago, was inconsistent, asked defense to refer to his statement, Defense were asking him if he had touched the syringes, BASICALLY DEFENSE ARE TRYING TO SAY SOMEONE ELSE GAVE MICHAEL THE LETHAL DOSE!! Amir spoke about the children!! Prince was saying whilst waiting at the hospital, "dont give Daddy ?? he may be allergic" this brought tears to my eyes, Amir spoke about how Murray tried to leave the hospital saying Murray wanted to go to the house and get and conceal a skin whitening cream, didn't want the world knowing Michael used it!!! They refused to give him a ride!!! MICHAEL NEVER USED ANY CREAM HE HAD A SKIN CONDITION!!
 
blacksheepdownunder said:
from what ive heard from people that were there in the room, KO talked alot of BS that had NOTHING to do with the case.
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Why dont you post the source to this information above? It comes from the proven nutcase, very ill-informed, liar and psycho Taaj Malik... What Kenny said doesnt suit her agenda that is WHY she is calling it bullshitt. How can this piece of scum know for a FACT that Kenny wasnt truthful? Oh yeah it doesnt suit her personal agenda. What you have posted above are her personal opinions on what happened and they are not in any way legit. She is CRAZY!! What does she want Kenny to say? Why doesnt she believe in Kenny in what he is saying?

Can you ask Taaj that if MJ didnt wanted to take the show worldwide then why did the crew sign a 2 year contract? How can she for a fact know Michael didnt wanted to take the tour to other countries? Can you tell this nutcase that all staff like dancers, make-up artists, lighting crew were hired in April.

I cant take this person serious. Remember she thought Brett Ratner were Michaels lawyer LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
 
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blacksheepdownunder said:
Michael Amir answered question on how he found out about Michael being sick, call from Murray. could not remember much as it was so long ago, was inconsistent, asked defense to refer to his statement, Defense were asking him if he had touched the syringes, BASICALLY DEFENSE ARE TRYING TO SAY SOMEONE ELSE GAVE MICHAEL THE LETHAL DOSE!! Amir spoke about the children!! Prince was saying whilst waiting at the hospital, "dont give Daddy ?? he may be allergic" this brought tears to my eyes, Amir spoke about how Murray tried to leave the hospital saying Murray wanted to go to the house and get and conceal a skin whitening cream, didn't want the world knowing Michael used it!!! They refused to give him a ride!!! MICHAEL NEVER USED ANY CREAM HE HAD A SKIN CONDITION!!
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Wow! I am glad you were privy to every single conversation MJ had with Kenny. It is so refreshing to have someone on here with firsthand experience.

And the last line you gave shows that you are so misinformed that anything else you say has to be questioned.
 
^^^^ Ginvid you are misunderstanding hehe.

This is NOT blacksheepdownunder's opinion/information. He/she is posting what someone else has written on the internet about day 1 of the prelim hearing.. that someone else being the nutcase Taaj Malik. Look at my post above yours ;)
 
Well sorry about that. LOL. I apologize.

But really, is it necessary to post stuff like that which obviously shows so much misinformation? It is really misleading and can wrongly influence a person when the information as presented is more opinion as opposed to fact.

Well, I guess everybody must be heard. I guess?
 
BASICALLY DEFENSE ARE TRYING TO SAY SOMEONE ELSE GAVE MICHAEL THE LETHAL DOSE!!
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I was actually pretty sure that Murray's defence will ask that question. Chernoff is not stupid. He sees no motive if Murray was acting alone. I would check bodyguards too.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
there doesnt need to be a motive for IM
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If Chernoff strongly believed in IM he would not ask a bodyguard that question. He is not an idiot like some fans think on this board. And you will be surprised how deep Chernoff will dig i this case. MJ syringes were already tested and Ortega was called to testify for a reason.
 
Asedora said:
If Chernoff strongly believed in IM he would not ask a bodyguard that question. He is not an idiot like some fans think on this board. And you will be surprised how deep Chernoff will dig i this case. MJ syringes were already tested and Ortega was called to testify for a reason.
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Chernoff is a DESPERATE man with NO defense for his client.

Digging deep is part of his job, I would expect nothing less, ESPECIALLY since he has no VIABLE defense for what Murray did.

His desperation was on display yesterday, when he asked Brother Michael about his ties to Islam. LOL! I mean, seriously what does THAT have to do with this case?
 
Big Apple2 said:
Chernoff is a DESPERATE man with NO defense for his client.

Digging deep is part of his job, I would expect nothing less, ESPECIALLY since he has no VIABLE defense for what Murray did.

His desperation was on display yesterday, when he asked Brother Michael about his ties to Islam. LOL! I mean, seriously what does THAT have to do with this case?
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So, you really think you are smarter than Chernoff? Do you really think that Chernoff does not know what he is doing and if asks weird" questions? Do you think he is doing it for fan? Chernoff does not believe in IM, but he believes in planned MURDER imo.
And.. Nation of Islam is a lot to do with this case.

And... before you say Chernoff is a DESPERATE man, you should read this:

Mr. Chernoff has tried many high profile cases throughout the United States. He rarely loses. In 1995, Mr. Chernoff was recommended and received the Board Certification in Criminal Law in 1995. He was re-certified in 2000, 2005 and 2010.
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