USA's attitude towards MJ

For a man who got called a paedophile and a freak, I've never been quite sure why the term ***** ***** offends people so much.
 
For a man who got called a paedophile and a freak, I've never been quite sure why the term ***** ***** offends people so much.
I would respond the same way I blasted somebody else here a few months ago, but you already told me that you were quite educated in black history and civil rights in another post.
So I'm sure you do know.

(And the other terms are vile and offensive as well).
 
For a man who got called a paedophile and a freak, I've never been quite sure why the term ***** ***** offends people so much.

What bothers me most is the way it's said. When it's said it always has a nasty and poisonous tone to it
 
I've always had this theory with MJ and the US. (Forgive me American fans)
I feel a lot of the patriotic American's felt hurt by Michael because he didn't wave an American flag every five minutes and remind everyone where he was from. Say like Bruce Springsteen or Tom Cruise in the movies for example. He was American but I don't think of him as an American in my mind he is just MJ. I find the way he was treated by SOME people in the United States a disgrace !
Especially when he is the physical embodiment of the American dream...

Michael mentioned that, he's not much into patriotism like he's from the US, he's more of a worldwide star than the American star. Don Cherry is also an example yes he's Canadian and he loves Canada but he loves the US because he played most of his hockey career there mainly in the minors and he said that some people can be nuts about loving their own countries and telling other countries how great they are like the soccer (or football to Europeans) fans are like they support Brazil, Germany, Ecuador, South Africa. True they are passionate, but sometimes they can be nuts.

And I sometimes don't understand why some Americans didn't Michael well like they should've, they are nuts. No offense to Americans
 
the term ***** is Australian slang,

after the opening leg of the Bad Tour started in Japan, the next stop was in Australian and that's when the press first start using this term regarding Michael

I'm Australian, I'm aware of what slang we use, I haven't heard that term being used to describe anyone in a very long time. Do we have anything to prove which press outlet was the first to use this name?
 
I have an idea, maybe J-acko is short for Jackson, and they added the other bit because a few things he did were strange fuelled by rumours from his own team, endorsed by MJ.
 
I have an idea, maybe J-acko is short for Jackson, and they added the other bit because a few things he did were strange fuelled by rumours from his own team, endorsed by MJ.

There was something a while back I read that the word '*****' used to be used as a slang for monkeys or something back in the 1800s, that it was sometimes used against black people and that it was likely those who started calling him this were aware of it. Maybe that's digging too much, maybe it isn't, I don't know. Some one more knowledgable could help me out here.

In reality though, I think 99% of people who used the W.acko J.acko simply used it because they see J.acko as a short version of Jackson and it rhymes well with w.acko. I honestly highly doubt the vast majority of people who use it intend to be racist with that term, since the racist connotation of it was only common 150-200 years ago and is largely unknown now.

I'm not really a fan of when people call him J.acko but I've seen many people refer to their friends who are called Jackson as J.acko so it's certainly not uncommon.
 
There was something a while back I read that the word '*****' used to be used as a slang for monkeys or something back in the 1800s, that it was sometimes used against black people and that it was likely those who started calling him this were aware of it. Maybe that's digging too much, maybe it isn't, I don't know. Some one more knowledgable could help me out here.

In reality though, I think 99% of people who used the W.acko J.acko simply used it because they see J.acko as a short version of Jackson and it rhymes well with w.acko. I honestly highly doubt the vast majority of people who use it intend to be racist with that term, since the racist connotation of it was only common 150-200 years ago and is largely unknown now.

I'm not really a fan of when people call him J.acko but I've seen many people refer to their friends who are called Jackson as J.acko so it's certainly not uncommon.

I don't think anybody meant it with racial connotations, that's just fans reading way too deep into it.
 
I'm Australian, I'm aware of what slang we use, I haven't heard that term being used to describe anyone in a very long time. Do we have anything to prove which press outlet was the first to use this name?

I've read on a Michael blog that the term was first coined by Rupert Murdoch's News of the World. And the Oxford English Dictionary (print) gives an overview of the history of the term, used since the 1600s; its connotations of 'monkey,' and how it became a racial slur.
 
I've read on a Michael blog that the term was first coined by Rupert Murdoch's News of the World. And the Oxford English Dictionary (print) gives an overview of the history of the term, used since the 1600s; its connotations of 'monkey,' and how it became a racial slur.
It is a racial slur. It's the same as calling someone "a crazy n-word"-ever hear that?

I'm an American, I'm from the same generation as Michael and I am more than aware of the racial connotation of that term the first time I ever heard it. There are multiple threads here discussing the history of this term-
It's derived from that Jacco Fighting Monkey in England back in the 1800s-there was a cartoon (that I'm sure Michael watched as well as I) about the little Jacco, the mischevious monkey back in the 60's-came from the same place. An English toy company even sold monkey dolls in overalls, that looked like the cartoon. Bubbles actually looked like that-maybe he was trying to ease the pain of the slur with that-make it cute.


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images


Here's an excerpt from one article: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/09/how-michael-jackson-made-bad/262162/

How Michael Jackson Made "BAD" ! New Article By Joseph Vogel ! September 14th, 2012

michael%20jackson%20615%20bad.jpg

MJJ / Sam Emerson

How Michael Jackson Made 'Bad' by Joseph Vogel
SEP 10 2012, 3:41 PM ET.

The story of how the landmark album, which just turned 25 and will soon be re-released
in a three-disc set, was forged by the "***** *****" backlash against the pop star.

At the height of his fame, Michael Jackson disappeared.

In 1984, he seemed to be everywhere: on MTV and in Pepsi commercials, at the Grammys and the White House, on Rolling Stone and Time magazine, and all across the United States on the Victory Tour. The next year, however, besides a brief appearance in "We Are the World," he was nowhere to be seen. "The year 1985," wrote Gerri Hirshey for Rolling Stone, "has been a black hole for Michael watchers, who witnessed the most spectacular disappearing act since Halley's comet headed for the far side of the solar system in 1910." It was a strategic move from a performer who understood the power of anticipation and mystique. 1986 was much the same. Jackson was said to be a recluse "in hiding" and made few public appearances.

A British tabloid deemed him "***** *****" in 1985, but the nickname's etymology goes back further: "Jacco" or "Jacco Macacco" was Cockney slang for "monkey." In his absence came a flood of fantastical stories about shrines, hyperbaric chambers, and Elephant Man's bones. Most of these were harmless (and actually amused Jackson), but there was a darker side to the media backlash. Jackson had become the most powerful African American in the history of the entertainment industry. Not only had he built an empire through his own record-shattering albums, videos and performances, he had resurrected the fortunes of CBS/Epic Records, surged life into MTV, and set the bar for live entertainment. He also smartly retained full ownership of his master recordings and with the help of his attorney, John Branca, actively acquired publishing rights, including songs by Sly and the Family Stone, Ray Charles, and of course, the crown jewel of popular music: the ATV/Beatles catalog.

It is no coincidence that this was the precise moment when the tide began to shift. From industry heavyweights and media alike, there was now suspicion, resentment, and jealousy. It was clear Jackson was not merely a naive man-child (as he was often presented), or a song-and-dance man who knew and accepted his place as a static, submissive "entertainer." He was outwitting some of the most powerful figures in the industry. He was growing artistically and financially. And he was beginning to learn how to wield his considerable power and cultural influence for more social and political ends.

"He will not swiftly be forgiven for having turned so many tables," wrote James Baldwin in 1985, "for he damn sure grabbed the brass ring, and the man who broke the bank at Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels, a larger-than-life Jackson is literally trapped in an amusement park attraction as dogs in corporate suits pound pegs in the ground to keep him in place. Later in the video he sings out of newspapers, dollar bills, and within reenactments of tabloid stories. It is a shrewdly self-aware (and socially aware) examination of entrapment, exploitation, and double consciousness in the postmodern age.

The backlash, then, was not merely about Jackson's perceived eccentricities. It was also about power, money, and more subtle forms of institutional and cultural dominance. In the decades preceding Jackson, as James Brown put it, black recording artists were all-too-often "in the show, but not in show business." Now Jackson was a financial force to be reckoned with. His status, however, also turned him into an enormous target.

The Most Influential Artist of the 20th Century Beginning in 1985, the media became increasingly vicious toward the artist. "They desire our blood, not our pain," Jackson wrote in a note in 1987. Tabloids soon began disparaging him with the nickname "***** *****" (a term Jackson despised). It was a term first applied to the pop star by the British tabloid, The Sun, in 1985, but its etymology goes back further. "***** Macacco" was the name of a famous monkey used in monkey-baiting matches at the Westminster Pit in London in the early 1820s. Subsequently, the term "Jacco" or "Jacco Macacco" was Cockney slang to refer to monkeys in general. The term persisted into the 20th century as "***** Monkeys" became popular children's toys in Great Britain in the 1950s. They remained common in British households into the 1980s (and can still be found
 
Well, I would not put subtle racial slurs past tabloids. Especially not since I read this from The Sun's former long time editor, Kelvin MacKenzie:

You just don't understand the readers, do you, eh? He's the bloke you see in the pub, a right old fascist, wants to send the wogs back, buy his poxy council house, he's afraid of the unions, afraid of the Russians, hates the queers and the weirdos and drug dealers. He doesn't want to hear about that stuff (serious news).

Tabloids target this kind of folks and taste quite deliberately. Of course, the whole J-acko thing might be a coincidence, but I also would not be surprised if it wasn't.
 
There was something a while back I read that the word '*****' used to be used as a slang for monkeys or something back in the 1800s, that it was sometimes used against black people and that it was likely those who started calling him this were aware of it. Maybe that's digging too much, maybe it isn't, I don't know. Some one more knowledgable could help me out here.

In reality though, I think 99% of people who used the W.acko J.acko simply used it because they see J.acko as a short version of Jackson and it rhymes well with w.acko. I honestly highly doubt the vast majority of people who use it intend to be racist with that term, since the racist connotation of it was only common 150-200 years ago and is largely unknown now.

I'm not really a fan of when people call him J.acko but I've seen many people refer to their friends who are called Jackson as J.acko so it's certainly not uncommon.



exactly.....I don't believe there was any racial connotation in referring MJ as that term they used at all

people must remember what led up to that.....

The Bad Tour premiered in Japan, and by that time, the stories MJ planted about buying the Elephant Man's bones and sleeping in the hyperbaric chamber had already made worldwide media circulation

but I really believe this is what kicked off the term W**** J****



now as a fan, when I saw this, I knew the media was gonna take that and run with it, so by the time he complete his initial concerts in Japan and getting ready to perform in Australia, the Australian press responded and referred to Michael as that name......and that's how it all started

if the term was meant to be racially antagonistic, with America's history of racial divide, then the term would have been started by American press but that was not the case.....

what started off as "harmless" turned into a situation where the media began to dictate things, and the moment that happens, it's a no win situation which is why Michael never should have went this route, he didn't have to go that route, he was bigger than that, he was better than that, he didn't have to prove anything because everything had already been proven
 
I have never ever thought about it as being racist... - Stupid yes, racist - not at all !
 
Oh, yeah that disgusting moniker is racist and the media in English speaking countries were more than happy to embrace it. From Joe Vogel's article, How Michael Jackson made Bad.


Beginning in 1985, the media became increasingly vicious toward the artist. "They desire our blood, not our pain," Jackson wrote in a note in 1987. Tabloids soon began disparaging him with the nickname "***** *****" (a term Jackson despised). It was a term first applied to the pop star by the British tabloid, The Sun, in 1985, but its etymology goes back further. "***** Macacco" was the name of a famous monkey used in monkey-baiting matches at the Westminster Pit in London in the early 1820s. Subsequently, the term "Jacco" or "Jacco Macacco" was Cockney slang to refer to monkeys in general. The term persisted into the 20th century as "***** Monkeys" became popular children's toys in Great Britain in the 1950s. They remained common in British households into the 1980s (and can still be found on Ebay today).


The term "J...," then, didn't arise out of a vacuum, and certainly wasn't meant as a term of endearment. In the ensuing years, it would be used by the tabloid and mainstream media alike with a contempt that left no doubt about its intent. Even for those with no knowledge of its racist roots and connotations, it was obviously used to "otherize," humiliate and demean its target. Like Ralph Ellison's "Battle Royal" scene in Invisible Man, it was a process by which to reduce Michael Jackson the human being and artist, to "*****" the minstrelized spectacle for avaricious amusement. (It is significant to note that, while the term was used widely by the white media, it was rarely, if ever used by black journalists.)

http://theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/09/how-michael-jackson-made-bad/262162/
 
I must say , Michael has got to be the most demonized celebrity in america. The media treated mike like he was a freaking axe murderer. Even celebs that actually did bad things didn't get even a quarter of the hate that mikey got.

It breaks my heart that such a kind and giving man was demonized and hounded to his grave by a bunch of hateful,jealous,greedy jackals.:mat::mat:
 
This is a great long Zeit-article from 1988 which gives a insight about the unfair industry/media-behaviour against MJ.

Off course it`s in german, but maybe you can use a translator


Soon in Germany
Michael Jackson: Flames from the fingers
The beginning of the world tour in America -
Perfect Entertainer, strange industry

http://www.zeit.de/1988/18/flammen-aus-den-fingern
 
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It's weird how people are so quick to call Michael a pedo with zero evidence but turn a blind eye to priests/teachers molesting little Timmy or little Sally being raped by her Mama's "boyfriend"/Dick of the week.
 
Annita;4079882 said:
This is a great long Zeit-article from 1988 which gives a insight about the unfair industry/media-behaviour against MJ.

Off course it`s in german, but maybe you can use a translator

I used Google Translator, there are some words that didn't translate but it's still pretty readable.

Flames from the fingers

The beginning of the world tour in America - Perfect Entertainer, strange industry
Updated April 29, 1988 08:00 clock

He is "the worst singer of the year", with the "worst album," the "hideous record sleeve" and the "terrible videos," the "at the most tasteless dressed Rock Star", which is what happened to "the least welcome comeback" in 1987. As judged readers of music magazine "Rolling Stone" in their annual vote on Michael Jackson and the promotional effects for his LP "Bad".

The 226 music journalists, the "Village Voice" recently ordered the weekly judges over the past pop and jazz-year, responded distinguished on the confrontation with the Jackson oeuvre - they do not even mentioned until this purpose put 115 of them. the table of the best albums of the year the Jackson-Prince and its antipodes "Sign 'O' the Times" in the first place.

In search of the "most offensive video clip of all time" was at the same time, the New York Times surprisingly quickly found: Michael Jackson's "Man in the Mirror", a montage of misery images of the Third and Fourth World, blended with news footage of Bishop Tutu Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King and Ghandi to John Kennedy, Lech Walesa and John Lennon. Hunger and terror-chic glamor as sales aids have paid off: "Man in the Mirror", the fourth single from "Bad" reached as its predecessor title easily took first place in the US charts.

The new Jackson album has so far twelve million copies sold (Federal German Sales: 900 000), and yet is the bad word of "relative flop" around (compared to "Thriller" in 1982 reached a world circulation of 45 million copies and found in Germany 1.2 million customers). Michael Jackson is most absurdly high scale measured mercilessly, with its duration propagandists want to distinguish him from ordinary mortals of the rock industry.

The gossip about the reclusive UltraStar use in the meantime any grotesque insinuation and do not shy away even before nightmarish speculations. So is Michael, if one is foolish enough to believe stale "image" -Storys be his sister La Toya in truth - as would a family of artists, which operates in the international public for more than twenty years, with such a hyped Hosenrollen- Game by. In addition to a zoo with exotic animals, a room full of mannequins and a private ghost train Jackson should have now risen on his property in Encino, California, a shrine to the beloved actress Elizabeth Taylor. Apparently it is only these replacement act of worship, because the diva had rejected his marriage proposal.

"I cry very often, because everything hurts so much," complained "Whacko *****" ("quirks Michael", as the British tabloids grumbles) calculated in a letter to the gossip magazine "People". "But Pity, because I bleed for a long time." When the crowd but once tasted blood, it remains on the track. Michael Jackson seems to conclude released for supersaturated music journalists and a sensationalist consumer audience. "I imagine the average man ever before as someone who zustürzt on me and tried me to rip the clothes," the 29-year old singer, who was always star, never had a childhood and adolescence now claims by cosmetic corrections or Qucksalber cures would like to extend to infinity.

The first superstar of the global village is in trouble. Color, national origin, sex and music style are categories into which no longer estimate him fans from Baku to Borneo. He has cleverly designed for universal popular myth, for ET from the Rhythm & Blues milk bar. The hysterical reaction of the public does not correspond to the cultural and historical significance of his music. But his naive dance hits of romantic teenage love and semi-strong restlessness are such an important factor in the leisure industry, the media companies that it has become all teenage pleasure and frustration articulations trimmed sociological and transfigured aesthetically automatically close attention finden.Ein überkandidelter rock journalism , So it may be that an intelligent pop craftsmen such as "Talking Heads" -Leader David Byrne of time is equal knighted for "Renaissance man".

There probably has a crazy play to stay normal. Michael Jackson knows that every day that makes him older, his Peter Pan existence at risk. That's why he bought together a synthetic childhood dream paradise and only feels comfortable there, where apparent and sound cannons space and time seem to defy - on stage.

Musical theater of illusion

Its spectacular show, which is in the early summer AREAS Germany, is a prime example of musical theater of illusion. Jackson live has no message, he taught or reinforced no life. He says and sings nothing about him, neither wants to be pals still Pied Piper. It offers two hours nonstop eighteen songs in the myth Jackson in seemingly within reach.

Basically its commercial rival Prince proceed otherwise with the audience. He, too, is shy and quirky. So he leaves in discos, at parties and receptions all guests by his bodyguards in any attempt to change a look with it, prohibit. Last Christmas he planned under the code name "Somebody" the secret release of an album entirely in black, without any indication to content and Interpreters (WarnerWX 147). However, because of his desired publication date could not be met because the Preßwerke just manufactured a disco mix Lady Madonna with hypertension, Prince blew the mannered sales offensive offended again. Pirated copies of unreleased "Black Album" are now almost available at every street corner.

More eccentric acted erotic entertainer 1986/87 when he three plates of his album "The Crystal Ball" offered the sales company WEA. In any case, such a comprehensive disk editions are on the pop-sector hard sell. However, for the Warner Brothers irritated, was that Prince recited all the pieces, using high gepuschter falsetto as his supposed sister "Camille". For May, he has now planned the latest official foray with the album "Love Sexy", possibly compiled from the 350 Musiktüfteleien which he holds in his Paisley Park studios in Minneapolis. Among all the freaks and gamblers in the recycling business of the skirt is Prince of the King. In no man's land between hippie history and modern synth but some critics see instead of a power rock prince only a Porn Count at work: "He fumbles hang around at all excited and pushes on its electronic self-timer; but nothing happened. "

In fact, his fireworks of rock déjà vu past effects often fizzles out very quickly, but yet is the current American pop charts ahead of style for years. "Lucifer's answer to Michael Jackson" (The Face) tinkering with breathtaking skill constantly new and exciting puzzles from the pop, soul, funk and blues clichés of modern rock, but it does not reach the grandeur of Michael Jackson. If the "Bambi rock music" (USA Today) and his falsetto voice whines through often banal nonsense verses, loses itself in murmurs, groans, Schluckauflauten, with heavy Atmern voranhaspelt the polyrhythmic background effects, and finally comes up with pubertal Kieksern, to him play the music may seek, then combines innocence and hard-boiled professionalism, unobstructed depth of feeling and clever calculation to an explosive mixture. With a team of four singers, four dancers and seven musicians Jackson swirls through his repertoire extended his hits to spectacular show numbers, dancing in ecstasy.

Fred Astaire once said about the bundle of energy ". He moves beautifully, it is pure pleasure to watch him," Truly, Jackson excessive dance style since the video performances of "Beat It", "Billie Jean" and "Thriller" even bolder become. Jackson Dance is movement for its own sake, acrobatics an uninhibited physicality, apparent defying gravity. He shakes himself, as if to electricity beat out of him, swirls in a pirouette into it falls to the ground, rolled forward, jump up and down like on an invisible trampoline, rushes in Step step on the stage, slips willfully intercepts with a plunge.

While this sometimes seems random, crudely. But when the dancers then imitate him accurately, the ingenious precision of Jackson choreography is obvious. "Is there anyone else who can dance like Michael?" Asked the ballet critic for the New York Times after the concert, almost drunk with enthusiasm. All the rumors about his bizarre lifestyle, the malice of jaded trend Schickis and Coated awareness of the first concert reports from the American province ("soulless spectacle") stood out on the face of the Jackson performances at New York's Madison Square Garden and at the Grammy -Verleihung early March.

The Grammy-show is the annual congratulatory the industry for the industry. On behalf of the "National Academy of Recording, Arts and Sciences" (NARAS) identify six thousand jurors (music publishers, managers, artists active) in more than seventy categories from pop to polka, the division winner of a small golden gramophone funnel. The thirtieth awarded the prestigious prize at Radio City Music Hall was a disgrace to the alleged experts: The guess of the ghetto into the mainstream chant of "rap" was ignored, as the successful subjects "Dance Music" and "Heavy Metal". The department "rock singers" the jury was unable to find five Grammy candidates. Most NARAS members are still an old-fashioned Tin Pan Alley aesthetic arrested and keep rock, thirty years after "Tutti Frutti", still an exotic subgenre. In their helplessness and incompetence, they chose a Hollywood tearjerker for Song of the Year and gave Paul Simon once again a top prize for his published 1986 album "Graceland", which this year no longer really should have been nominated. Michael Jackson got no time Grammy, but a standing ovation for the dance pyrotechnics of his world for the better hit song "Man in the Mirror".

The Grammy broadcast on television was with four of his tour sponsor Pepsi commercials guaranteed, not the effervescent beverage showed the star around, but in the cauldron of his live show and on the run from uninhibited fans. If Michael Jackson is advertising, then he makes especially advertising for themselves. Only then is to understand the style free use of his song "Bad" in the drink recommendation. Because normally give superstars, the core material of her oeuvre for advertising purposes ago. Thus, the Beatles sued last year, the sneaker company Nike to eighteen million in damages, because the sport outfitters had an advertising spot underpinned by a mushroom-classic "Revolution". The rights had Nike worried the new owner of the Beatles Copyrights: Michael Jackson.

Spark-flying suits

The Madison Square Garden Pepsi did not come into play, because there Coke has the serving concession. For Michael made his audience almost drunk with all the effects, tricks and gags, which can be realized at $ 500,000 cost of production per week: multi-color laser thunderstorms, light bombs, fluorescent glowing smoke screens, sparking suits, Fiber Optic Wigs and large video projections from extravagant camera positions are as already standard. A magic trick Siegfried and Roy from Las Vegas Michael can disappear in a silvery cylinder and seconds later emerge at the other end of the platform in the new costume again. During his anti-macho-hit "Beat It" rises a boom from the stage floor and carries the singer well beyond the first floor series, while invisible wind machines can flutter shirt and hair effectively. If he pulls himself to his erotic overheated songs in the step twitch before flames from the fingers. Occasionally, he loses himself in pantomime Kabinettstückchen à la Marcel Marceau, often enough he sweeps with his dance group on the stage as he did the blessed Broadway Hero Bob Summarize assists in his Zappel acrobatics.

The usual anti-Jackson attributes such as "effeminate" or "lachrymose" do not apply to these hyperkinetic show. The guitarist Jennifer Batten specifies a metallic crashing beat, in which Jackson affords virtually no whining. Ironically, the maligned as a wimp (slacker) Star gentle increases in a sometimes manic steam hammer-Pop, as he had to deny a tarnished image. A zoom view through the television confirmed that the man has really pleasure to expend in the neon ring his touring circus; he never sags and builds each song as if this was his last chance of a pop show on earth.

Only with a medley of old songs from his childhood ("I Want You Back", "The Love You Save") he acts indifferent, as should the Peter Pan of pop music have no past. But then he gets under the "woof woof" -Schreien the enthused fans of all races, ages and social backgrounds for the finale with "Billie Jean" from. And dances his "Moon Walk", that inimitable combination tricky step, as a well-oiled robot glide on invisible runners across the stage. The mood in the Garden has reached the decibel values of a starting Apollo rocket.

Michael Jackson is the perfect entertainer, a magician and illusionist of high caliber. If he turns slightly buckled legs in high water pants, white socks and ordinary street shoes like a ballet star on her toes and pushes the slouch hat low over his face, then this pose is just as memorable as Charlie Chaplin waddling gait. He has become an icon of American popular culture.

http://www.zeit.de/1988/18/flammen-aus-den-fingern
 
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