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Vote that it was murder, not manslaughter!

That's why I tend to go "oh, here we go again..." when MJ fans talk about "media" now. Most of us are acting the same way. Creating incredible conspiracy theories, being biased, ... the list goes on. Some of you are looking just like a bad tabloid, doing your best to create some theory that would fit right by "Paul is dead"'s side.

This is the grief inside of you all. And it's so bad that it's making most of you turn against even MJ fans themselves because they don't agree with you, because you all can't get over it. No one's defending Murray and you can't see it. This is being blind.
Again, most of the people talking about the 'media' here... Are doing the same/acting the same/looking the same. Or even worse, like a tabloid, in the case of all the "direct from movies" theories.

StaceyMJ (and sorry to quote you, but...) said it better when she said:
Involuntary manslaughter does not seem enough to me.
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It does not seem enough for you all. Because you can't get over it.
And your heart will feel it for your entire life. Just sayin'... But we do not need bad energies surrounding us. In long term, feeding this kind of feeling inside your heart will turn you very, very bitter. This is not living. And I guess that I can say that this is not something MJ would aprove (feeding so much hate inside of your hearts - his fans hearts).

I want justice. Not bias. And for now, I'll stick to my opinion of terrible negligence. And that's not defending that guy.
PS.: It's sad to see a place like MJJC turn in a place so full of hate, bias and ignorance. I don't know if it's said in other places, but... Here in Brazil some people tend to say: "o pior cego é aquele que não quer enxergar". "The worst blind is the one who does not want to see".
 
billyblues said:
That's why I tend to go "oh, here we go again..." when MJ fans talk about "media" now. Most of us are acting the same way. Creating incredible conspiracy theories, being biased, ... the list goes on. Some of you are looking just like a bad tabloid, doing your best to create some theory that would fit right by "Paul is dead"'s side.

This is the grief inside of you all. And it's so bad that it's making most of you turn against even MJ fans themselves because they don't agree with you, because you all can't get over it. No one's defending Murray and you can't see it. This is being blind.
Again, most of the people talking about the 'media' here... Are doing the same/acting the same/looking the same. Or even worse, like a tabloid, in the case of all the "direct from movies" theories.

StaceyMJ (and sorry to quote you, but...) said it better when she said:


It does not seem enough for you all. Because you can't get over it.
And your heart will feel it for your entire life. Just sayin'... But we do not need bad energies surrounding us. In long term, feeding this kind of feeling inside your heart will turn you very, very bitter. This is not living. And I guess that I can say that this is not something MJ would aprove (feeding so much hate inside of your hearts - his fans hearts).

I want justice. Not bias. And for now, I'll stick to my opinion of terrible negligence. And that's not defending that guy.
PS.: It's sad to see a place like MJJC turn in a place so full of hate, bias and ignorance. I don't know if it's said in other places, but... Here in Brazil some people tend to say: "o pior cego é aquele que não quer enxergar". "The worst blind is the one who does not want to see".
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Well being as you quoted me (lol) I'm gonna respond to you. Yes, I can see what you're saying when you say 'terrible negligence' but that was precisely my point. Such blatant disregard of a human life, that is what I meant by more than involuntary manslaughter. When someone you really really love and care about is taken in such a way Michael was, it's hard not to be bias or want more to happen. It's completely natural in my opinion. But I have to say I am not full of hate and ignorance. I'm not sure if you meant me when you said that but that kind of hurt me, because it's the very thing I try not to be. That said, thanks for your views. :)
 
We are have different opinions on this and this is so hard for every single one of us. Someone we love very much and grew up was taken away from us by someone and it hurts, really hurts. None of us will ever get over it. I am not full of hate and ignorance. Everyone has the right to a fair trial and I do not think wishing death on Murray is the right way to deal with it. But I cannot just turn round and say 'oh it was a mistake, we all make mistakes, he's a doctor and this can happen.' That is not how I feel and that doesn't make me hateful that I cannot forgive him for taking Michael away. In my own personal opinion what Conrad Murray did was blatantly disregard the welfare of a human life. He decided that money was worth more than his oath. He left the room when he should have been monitoring Michael and he was making phone calls on his mobile. No monitoring equipment, botched CPR, nothing. This is why I believe it is more than involuntary manslaughter. He was reckless and negligent. I respect the opinions of every single person on this board but please do not ask me to forgive Murray. Do I think Murray intentionally killed Michael, no I do not. I just simply cannot forgive him.
 
StaceyMJ said:
Well being as you quoted me (lol) I'm gonna respond to you. Yes, I can see what you're saying when you say 'terrible negligence' but that was precisely my point. Such blatant disregard of a human life, that is what I meant by more than involuntary manslaughter. When someone you really really love and care about is taken in such a way Michael was, it's hard not to be bias or want more to happen. It's completely natural in my opinion. But I have to say I am not full of hate and ignorance. I'm not sure if you meant me when you said that but that kind of hurt me, because it's the very thing I try not to be. That said, thanks for your views. :)
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Yes. The very reason why I feel that Involuntary Manslaughter is not enough of a charge is because of Murray's complete negligence. Not to mention, all his actions immediately following Michael's death. Those actions were voluntary. He knew that he shouldn't be using propofol and administering it in such a careless manner. He didn't call 911 right away and he didn't administer CPR correctly. He disappears from the hospital. He makes a YouTube video thanking his "supporters." He has himself photographed at the cemetery. I have seen absolutely no evidence that this man cares about anyone other than himself. THIS is why I feel that the charge(s) should be Second Degree Murder. Not necessarily pre-meditated, but murder nonetheless. I have not come to this conclusion because I "need" someone to pay, "want" it to be murder, have uncontrollable anger or rage, etc. To me it is simply the logical outcome. I have a feeling that there probably wasn't enough solid evidence to prove it, and that's why we are looking at Involuntary Manslaughter.
 
His actions 'after the fact' aren't what counts in the case of murder vs manslaughter. It is what happened at the time of death.
 
Oh yes, absolutely. I just think that when you are looking at the actual reason for the charges that were brought forth, they are looking at the actual deed and what they can prove and nothing more.
 
They have had profesional detectives working on this case. They have come to the conclusion it was involuntary manslaugter.

So how exactly are we clueless if we are saying the same things as professional detectives? :S haha

No offense guys but your not professional detectives. They are aware of the same things you are and have even looked into it further but havent found anything.

They cant just charge him with murder just to please all the Michael Jackson fans.

I hate Murray as well, he took away my idol.

I'll never forget the day MJ died, someone posted this quote on the forum. 'I lost a very close friend today' Something like that. Anyway, out of all the things people were saying on this site that day. That one really got to me and still sticks in my mind till this day. I feel it perfectly described how we all felt about Michael. I watch the video of Smooth Criminal and think about that quote, and think about how many people held him so close and idolised him and everything he did.

On top of that, the only dream ive ever had was to see Michael live. Thats all I had ever wanted.

Murray with his negligence took that away, in the space of a few hours he destroyed all that. I cannot look at this face without feeling utter rage.

But even with all that, I cannot say he murdered Michael because I really dont think he did it intentionally.........

Which in a way infuriates me more, as well lost all that and it could of so easily be avoided.
 
StaceyMJ said:
Well being as you quoted me (lol) I'm gonna respond to you. Yes, I can see what you're saying when you say 'terrible negligence' but that was precisely my point. Such blatant disregard of a human life, that is what I meant by more than involuntary manslaughter. When someone you really really love and care about is taken in such a way Michael was, it's hard not to be bias or want more to happen. It's completely natural in my opinion. But I have to say I am not full of hate and ignorance. I'm not sure if you meant me when you said that but that kind of hurt me, because it's the very thing I try not to be. That said, thanks for your views. :)
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Dontcha' worry, I wasn't talking about you when I'd drop the line of "hate and ignorance". It was more directed at the fans going MAD when someone just tried to be realistic and sincere rather than jump on the "FRIGGIN' MURDERER ROT IN JAIL NOW" wagon. I'm actually seeing that a lot (and not only here, but since I'm more of an active member here than any other MJ forum...) and it makes me sad since we're all fans and we shouldn't be turning on each other because of that guy that took Michael away.

I want justice, believe me. And I understand your views about "more than involuntary manslaughter" now that you took some time to explain it to me. It IS hard. But I tend to think the following: it was a huge negligence, for sure. It took us Michael. But is it so hard to think that it was like a... HUGE mistake of Murray? He was negligent as a doctor and should be punished for that. And I can see how all that "visiting Michael's grave" talk could mess with some people's hearts. Still, I prefer to think that there, deep inside of him, he's sorry and just don't know what to do anymore. After all, he's human, as was Michael. If he's truly sorry, deep inside his heart, that makes me feel better. Plus, seeing him suffer, rotting in prison and all things like that won't bring Michael physically back, for those of you that believe in being alive = physically living. You surely don't want to know what it is to be dead inside living in material world, believe me. And must I say... You would enjoy seeing him rot in prison for a while, then you'd fall back in reality, the one without Michael, and it wouldn't be enough again.

And that's why I gave up the grieving. Even if he must be punished for his terrible negligence and all... Well, I think that most of people believe in God. If so... There'll be justice and you know what I mean. And that's why I won't let bad feelings take over my heart now. I have enough personal problems (huge problems, may I say) to let all this anger take control of me. And that makes me feel better for Michael, actually... He had a good heart. I know he wouldn't let feelings like that take over control of him too.
He's in a better place, believe me. And to be honest, I envy him. I wish I was in a place like that too, with every single person I loved and lost and peace.

Enough talking, thanks for actually being kind and all in your reply, Stacey. :) It was... comforting to read your words and don't find a single trace of "OMG how can you be so blind, you're defending Murray, etc".

PS.: Someone said something about "not forgiving" and "not being hateful" or something along those lines... That's hateful and won't do any good to your heart in long term life. But all in all, I understand it and I hope you'll eventually "reach the right road" so you'll feel better. And it's a sincere wish, it's all for love. I hope you won't get the wrong idea of my words.
 
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L.T.D said:
They have had profesional detectives working on this case. They have come to the conclusion it was involuntary manslaugter.

So how exactly are we clueless if we are saying the same things as professional detectives? :S haha

No offense guys but your not professional detectives. They are aware of the same things you are and have even looked into it further but havent found anything.
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Yeah, was it two detectives woking on the case? Or three? Who know all about Tohme (where IS he, by the way?!), Colony Capital, TRW Advertising, Weller, Tom Barrack, Phillip Anschutz, Randy Phillips, Al Malnik, I could go on like that for more than a page. You're right, we know nothing.
I think I'm stupider than the doctor, who, as we all know, is the stupidest person in the whole wide world.

L.T.D said:
I hate Murray as well, he took away my idol.

I'll never forget the day MJ died, someone posted this quote on the forum. 'I lost a very close friend today' Something like that. Anyway, out of all the things people were saying on this site that day. That one really got to me and still sticks in my mind till this day. I feel it perfectly described how we all felt about Michael. I watch the video of Smooth Criminal and think about that quote, and think about how many people held him so close and idolised him and everything he did.
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We didn't "all" feel that way about Michael. To some of us, he was FAMILY.
I didn't idolise him, I don't think he was God. Just a very gifted human being, which I happen to love. Warts and all.
 
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And for the record, I don't hate Murray. Even if he never spends one day in jail, and goes on to live happily ever after, sipping a nice cocktail in Bermuda. He is a human being, and I don't know the reasons which lead him to choose this path. But please, stop insulting our intelligence, limited as it may be.
 
Popescu said:
Yeah, was it two detectives woking on the case? Or three? Who know all about Tohme (where IS he, by the way?!), Colony Capital, TRW Advertising, Weller, Tom Barrack, Phillip Anschutz, Randy Phillips, Al Malnik, I could go on like that for more than a page. You're right, we know nothing.I think I'm stupider than the doctor, who, as we all know, is the stupidest person in the whole wide world.
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That's the thing. They believe Murray is involved alone.

But he's not.

And that Thome guy is BEYOND suspicous. Ditching LKL live a second time with not even an excuse??? Following mj's body in the helicoptor when he's not even his manager? And showing up at his conference, when he's not even his manager?

And Dr. Thome? Seriosuly, why couldn't it just have been Thome??????? He's NOT a doctor.

I could go on and on. But we know all the details. At least, most of us.
 
Well, for those who believe that MANY, or OTHERS are involved......thats fine. The question here is what should the charges be against Murray.

If there are others involved, it needs to be proven. Without some sort of proof, there is no way to convict anyone of a crime. And if others are involved, does that make Murray less involved? Does that mean Murray should get a lighter sentence?

I am asking only because some fans seem to want to blame a group of people but if there is no proof, its nothing but a guess or a stab in the dark. What did Tohme ever do that would show he wanted to murder Michael? Even John Branca? What have they done that shows it was worth murdering this man?

I am not disputing anything because I don't have all the facts in front of me, but if people are going to constantly accuse people of this crime, they need to back it up with facts in order to actually make it mean something. Thats all. Bring some evidence to the police to show that. If that can't be done, it is just slandering people without any basis in fact. Thats what I have against it. I am not against believing or thinking that there were 10 people involved.

I am against throwing names around like a frisbee without any basis in fact. Saying to follow the money trail is fine if you can actually do it rather than just keep on saying it.

The ones who gain the most by this is Katherine and the children.

I am very open minded in many ways but I haven't seen any evidence against all these other people.
 
Michael will NOT get justice with a 2nd degree charge
Murray will walk free
as there is not enough evidence or facts for a jury to convict

Manslaughter is a wise choice for the DA
in order to get a conviction_ It will be very
difficult to get a jury to convict him of 2nd
degree_ The prosecution wants a conviction

A 2nd degree charge will make it very likely
Dr. Murry will be found innocent of that change
and walk free

Tom Mez is a very wise man and attorney
and he also agrees _ that in order to make sure Murray
is convicted of a crime _Manslaughter is the wise choice
for the DA to make. If they had enough evidence they
would have made it 2nd degree _

do you want to take the chance of Murray walking
on this charge_ I know a jury will NOT convict Murray
of 2nd degree murder_ based on the Evidence and FACTS ..

Murray will walk free if the charge is 2nd degree
there is NOT enough evidence to PROVE intent or malice.

With Manslaughter Murray wil be convicted of killing Michael
It will be on record and he will do time ... maybe not enough
in your view _ but at least some Justice will be served.

The prosecution can only charge what the can PROVE to a jury
Do you want to take the chance of Murray walking our a Free man
with no conviction - Please reconsider what it is you want

I vote manslaughter to enable a conviction against Murray
 
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lada said:
Michael was murdered for his part in ATV, ask La Toya and or Jarmaine, they´ll tell you what´s the problem with ATV catalogue http://www.aishamusic.com/Judiciary_Report/latoya_jackson_sony_murdered_michale_jackson.htm
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there is nothing on that site _ IT ridiculas did you read it ???
ridiculas accusations _ the writer of that article even says Maddona
is trying to kill them by having them run over with cars :doh:

Please dont ridicule Michael's name and honor with that silly crap
at least show a reputable source for these accustations

There is no proof on that site that Sony was out to murder Michael
Its all conspiracy theories with NO Facts to back it up. Lot of hearsay
and rumours have been used but NEVER any proof _

but to back up _ say mabey Sony did want MJ dead
Based on evidance its very unlikely Murray was part of that conspiracy ..
He was to stupid to be a hit man .. Nothing was planned out _ he made
to may mistakes _ showing there was NO plot with other behind it - or
it would have been more tight _not so many blunders

also the cataolog is safe and sound
The estate holds it for MJs children and stated
it would NOT be sold _ so that theory is down the drain
and they would have to have a court order with the Jacksons
and worlds scrutiny over it in order to ever do such a thing.
 
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