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Vote that it was murder, not manslaughter!

We can't prove murder murder (malice, intent to kill), so I'm just going to comment based on facts. Based on facts and evidence, I believe this is second degree murder in every sense of the definition. Not pre-meditated, no intent, no aforethought or will to harm, but complete and total disregard for human life. Based on what we know, he didn't set out to kill him, but he sure as hell didn't try to save him. That's what bumps this up from IM. And if they couldn't bring themselves to use the 'M' word in their charge, then they should have stacked on a slew of extra charges. I'm still waiting... -_-
 
This is indeed Murder. the things Murray did is so unlike a doctor. I cant see him being on this drug and not be hooked up to the proper equipment. You dont do CPR on a bed no matter how firm it is, you dont wait 45 minutes or however long to call 911, you dont hide from police if your innocent.

This was murder.
 
GinnyJackson said:
This is indeed Murder. the things Murray did is so unlike a doctor. I cant see him being on this drug and not be hooked up to the proper equipment. You dont do CPR on a bed no matter how firm it is, you dont wait 45 minutes or however long to call 911, you dont hide from police if your innocent.

This was murder.
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The coroners report said he dragged him to the floor. Just saying.
 
It could possibly be that there are more involved in this than just Murray but they just don't have any solid proof of that. My opinion is that this Murray guy was just incredibly incompetent. Remember, this is a cardiologist who was doing the job that only trained anesthesiologists should do. If he wanted to murder Michael I would think he would have found a more discreet way to do it. Everything he did or didn't do that day was so obvious. One mistake after another. One lame cover up after another. I always thought that when you purposely murder someone you try to cover your tracks and all evidence.

So for me it's manslaughter. However I think the max sentence, which I PRAY he gets, just doesn't seem like enough. This was not just one little innocent accident. There were a SERIES of grossly negligent mistakes and complete disregard for a human life. That man had the power to save Michael but he did not. How is 4 years in prison enough punishment for that?
 
Until this point I can't say it was murder. I understand that Michael was worth dead more than he was alive, but I can't say. I think if they wanted him dead, they would have found a more discreet way as suzynyc said right above me. However, I think this guy should get more than four years in prison, six to eight at the least. His incompetence was grave.
 
zizousama said:
Until this point I can't say it was murder. I understand that Michael was worth dead more than he was alive,
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Not to Dr Murray, and that's where the harebrained murder theory falls down.

Murray has no motive whatsoever.

MJ was worth a fortune to Murray. He was paying him upwards of $100,000 a month. There was no upside to Murray murdering Michael. He missed out on a whole lot of enormous paycheques, became a global hate figure and will probably spend several years in prison.

So far I'm not seeing his motivation.

The only motive any fans can conjure up is 'AEG paid him' or 'Sony paid him' - but there is no evidence whastsoever to support that theory.

Murray has absolutely no motive and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that he killed MJ intentionally.
 
mjdove said:
and who is saying that?
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It's in the report, which is weird, cause we can hear from the call that Michael was on the bed.

And it's true, fans are formulating their own opinions based on observations and research done for all these months. And everybody's entitled to have hi or her own opinion.
 
Didnt Michael hand pick Murray? So how could he have been part of a plan to kill Michael?
 
L.T.D said:
Didnt Michael hand pick Murray? So how could he have been part of a plan to kill Michael?
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:scratch:shhhh lol

conspiracy theorist could argue that michael was being contolled and he didn't really want murray. They could say who's payroll was murray on because michael wasn't going to pay him personally. AEG and Frank could be lieing.
 
Here is some food for thought,

If Dr. Murray can't come up with money to pay his child support then how in the heck did he come up with $75,000 for bail?
Can someone answer that?
 
Do I think it was premeditated? I wouldn't rule it out but I'm leaning towards no. Do I think it was murder? In the fact that he left him suffering cardiac arrest and not giving him every fair chance of survival, it's more than involuntary manslaughter.
 
StaceyMJ said:
Do I think it was premeditated? I wouldn't rule it out but I'm leaning towards no. Do I think it was murder? In the fact that he left him suffering cardiac arrest and not giving him every fair chance of survival, it's more than involuntary manslaughter.
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I put him in the same place of drunk driver who runs over and kills a person,without even stopping to help.
As far as law goes, and evidence we have so far, it's involuntary manslaughter.
What I don't understand is why he hasn't been indicted with other new charges,like M in the 2005 trial.....I hope as the trial starts more severe charges will be added..otherwise I'll just give up.
 
ConservativeMind said:
Here is some food for thought,

If Dr. Murray can't come up with money to pay his child support then how in the heck did he come up with $75,000 for bail?
Can someone answer that?
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Because the bail is only a loan, the people who put the money up for him will get it back once he attends court.
 
ConservativeMind said:
Here is some food for thought,

If Dr. Murray can't come up with money to pay his child support then how in the heck did he come up with $75,000 for bail?
Can someone answer that?
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Of the 75,000 he only had to pay up 10% which is 7,500. Where he got that i dont know, his lawyer maybe?

Charge should have been murder 2.
 
CatherineNZ said:
voted murder
it's only 36%
why people are so blind?
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The only blind ones in here. Are the fans blinded by love........




Oh yeaaaaaaaahhh

What are we supposed to not be able to see btw? There is nothing to say that Murray killed Michael on purpose. So how exactly are we blind?

To me it seems he gave MJ propofol. Left his bed side, came back to find him not breathing. Tried to revive him, EVENTUALLY phoned 911. Realised he had just killed the biggest and most loved pop star in the world and fled out of fear.

The only suspicious thing is waiting so long to call 911.
 
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I do not think it was pre-meditated, I highly doubt Murray would want to kill off his meal ticket especially with all the debts Murray had racked up, but the timeline between 10.40 and 12.21 with the three phone calls in between, the leaving the room in the first place for god knows how long, the lack of equipment, and the CPR on a bed. to me leaves it more than Involuntary Manslaughter. I know second degree murder is hard to prove but that is what I feel the charges should have been.
 
I voted for manslaughter. It took 8 months to file charges and that is what the prosecutors can come up with. That tells me that there isn't much there to say that a murder took place. Unless Dr. Murray start naming names if other people are involved, then I can't vote any other way.
 
clarac said:
I put him in the same place of drunk driver who runs over and kills a person,without even stopping to help.
As far as law goes, and evidence we have so far, it's involuntary manslaughter.
What I don't understand is why he hasn't been indicted with other new charges,like M in the 2005 trial.....I hope as the trial starts more severe charges will be added..otherwise I'll just give up.
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I can appreciate that comparison...but this is a doctor. It's what he is trained to do, he took an oath, he should have ethics. Even giving Michael propofol is wrong enough, but to leave him unattended, to not use necessary equipment, to wait to call 911, to repeatedly give him a combination of drugs that was a risk...there's so many things wrong in this picture. Involuntary manslaughter does not seem enough to me. :(
 
xDecade said:
You don't know if it was a Murder.No one knows.

Remember 2005 and all the things.Murray is in the same place now.
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While I agree that we don't know for certain if it was murder, and we probably never will, it is NOT the same thing. If anyone else says that about murray and Michael's situations being the same again, I'm going to scream. Michael never did ANYTHING to that kid. Michael is DEAD now because of murray. He is. Everyone knows it, and he's being charged with his death. the idiot gave Michael propofol (and the other drugs) and that is what killed Michael. I'm not guessing, I'm not speculating, it's not a case of he said/she said - it's fact. murray even admitted it, and there is EVIDENCE/PROOF. So no, they are not the same!!!!!!!!
 
Giant Enemy Cat said:
I've said from the very start that we can't just say Murray murdered Michael...it's a possibility.

Think about 2005, none of us liked people saying Michael was guilty without any evidence or knowing anything about the case, and now some of you are doing the same thing with Murray, which is a double standard.
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Wrong. They are completely different. Michael is dead now. It's murray's fault. He's admitted it, and there is evidence. The only question is if the intent was there or not. If it wasn't intentional murder, then he's about the most incompetent, ignorant fool who's ever lived.
So did Michael admit to any wrongdoing? Was there evidence? No, it was one person's word (who was a known and proven liar) against another's.
 
IM is too low a charge for what he did. In California 2nd Degree Murder can be charged if there is wilful disregard for human life. Murray was reckless and showed wilful disregard IMO.

The oxygen tanks were disconnected and empty. There was no IV pump used. God knows how much Murray injected in to MJ all at once. No proper monitoring equipment. No resus equipment. No Oxygen. Phone calls. Left the room. CPR on bed. Huge delay in 911 calls. How can this only amount to IM? How does this show any regard for human life?
 
Plus, I believe this was 'wilful' disregard as he must have known the dangers of propofol but he ignored them.

Murray keeps saying he gave Michael 'nothing that should have killed' him. I therefore believe he's playing us because by saying this he's almost pleading ignorance about the affects of propofol. By pleading ignorance this will probably result in a lighter punishment than by saying he knew the dangers but carried on anyway.
 
daisydaisy said:
IM is too low a charge for what he did. In California 2nd Degree Murder can be charged if there is wilful disregard for human life. Murray was reckless and showed wilful disregard IMO.

The oxygen tanks were disconnected and empty. There was no IV pump used. God knows how much Murray injected in to MJ all at once. No proper monitoring equipment. No resus equipment. No Oxygen. Phone calls. Left the room. CPR on bed. Huge delay in 911 calls. How can this only amount to IM? How does this show any regard for human life?
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Exactly, that's what I don't understand.
 
He showed a willful disregard for Michael's life with all the actions he took from beginning to end...really can't slice it any other way. I find it hard to believe that this man has nearly 20 years in the field of cardiology and all of the sudden loses all common sense and commits one "stupid" act after another. Not buying it sorry....To how many other patients did he administer propofol to at any time during his 20 years as a CARDIOLOGIST?...was this the only time? The man didn't follow proper procedures for use of this drug...that is not stupidity...that is willful and voluntary on his part. As far as what his punishment will be who knows, I guess that is for 12 people to decide.

The stunts he has pulled with hiring a pr firm, yt video, and FL visit tells me he doesn't give a damn about anyone but his own sorry ass! Whatever he gets, it won't be any comfort to me whatsoever nor to anyone who cared about Michael...the 1 charge of IM is minimal...so much for setting an example to doctors who play God.
 
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