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Waiting for something MJ Estate??

Oh, I DEFINITELY pray that there will be a "Dangerous 25"!!! What an incredible opportunity to put a unique limited edition version of the studio l.p. out like "Thriller 25" and "Bad 25"! The only fault with "Bad 25" not selling better was directly on the fans. That project was ace ten fold.
 
^^ The fan community who knew about and supported the project all went out and purchased it. The problem with Bad25 is that reissues on the whole don't do well commercially.
 
ChrisC said:
That and a series of poor marketing decisions.
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Reissues don't do strong business commercially simply because reissues aren't strong sellers.

Bad25 saw a more extensive marketing plot than any reissue or box set I've ever seen.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Reissues don't do strong business commercially simply because reissues aren't strong sellers.

Bad25 saw a more extensive marketing plot than any reissue or box set I've ever seen.
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Marketing is often about choices and about timing and about the impact those choices and that timing makes. It's not simply about a marketing spend. You can have the biggest marketing campaign you like but timed badly it will have little to no effect, for example. Was Don't Be Messin' Round the right song to send to radio? Was the biggest marketing tool, the Spike Lee documentary, handled right? Could it have been timed to air on television around the release of Bad 25 rather than months after the album had disappeared from the world's charts?

A reissue album may not do the numbers of a new album but Bad 25 could have done better and it's failure to do that, in my opinion, was primarily down to it's marketing.

And that's me not even addressing what you consider the most extensive marketing campaign for a reissue that you've ever seen. I can only assume you're not in the UK.
 
ChrisC said:
Marketing is often about choices and about timing and about the impact those choices and that timing makes. It's not simply about a marketing spend. You can have the biggest marketing campaign you like but timed badly it will have little to no effect, for example. Was Don't Be Messin' Round the right song to send to radio? Was the biggest marketing tool, the Spike Lee documentary, handled right? Could it have been timed to air on television around the release of Bad 25 rather than months after the album had disappeared from the world's charts?

A reissue album may not do the numbers of a new album but Bad 25 could have done better and it's failure to do that, in my opinion, was primarily down to it's marketing.

And that's me not even addressing what you consider the most extensive marketing campaign for a reissue that you've ever seen. I can only assume you're not in the UK.
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Our perceptions are definitely askew. Bad25 seems to have done incredibly well in the UK, whereas in the US (where I live) it dropped around number 24 on the charts and disappeared almost entirely the week after.

Reissues simply don't have a large market here. You never see much news around them.

I can't deny that the Bad25 promotional marketing campaign as it stands was... less than satisfying or sensible. Lot of missteps. But I still can't quite agree that any sort of change would have resulted in a massive shift in sales numbers, at least in the United States.
 
There were no missteps. It's Sony. Besides from I understand the worldwide sales were a million sold. Right? I think so.
 
It was the first 25th something from the Estate. And it was done well, IMO.
I don’t think there’s anything that is fans fault. But boycotters did their job of “belittle” the project very well. At least it gave its share of negativity and they are fans too.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Our perceptions are definitely askew. Bad25 seems to have done incredibly well in the UK, whereas in the US (where I live) it dropped around number 24 on the charts and disappeared almost entirely the week after.

Reissues simply don't have a large market here. You never see much news around them.

I can't deny that the Bad25 promotional marketing campaign as it stands was... less than satisfying or sensible. Lot of missteps. But I still can't quite agree that any sort of change would have resulted in a massive shift in sales numbers, at least in the United States.
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The UK peak was #6 in week one. I'll agree that's good. But the drop off was catastrophic. Bad had plunged 71 places by week 3 and then off the charts entirely by week 4. To me, that suggests a failure for Bad 25 to engage generally with the market. Fans were buying in week one and then it died.

Compare that with Paul Simon's Graceland 25th anniversary re-issue which bowed only a couple of months prior. Graceland stayed in the top 40 for over two and half months! It didn't match Bad's peak until week 6 and then two weeks later ecipsed that, climbing to #4.

Sure there's a cocktail of reasons why albums succeed and don't. And of course this considers relative chart positions, rather than sales - but the Graceland chart performance surely speaks for itself. Both seminal albums of the 80s, both released around similar times, by international artists, receiving the same kind of anniversary release. Frankly on paper I'd have put money on Bad blowing Graceland out of the water. But something went seriously wrong here.

I'm no big fan of Paul Simon, but the re-release of that album was communicated very clearly to me in a number of ways - by the way Graceland got a documentary too and was instrumental in it's chart performance (on the other hand Bad's documentary aired well after the album was dead in the water [timing is everything]). I can't help but feel, had I not been a huge MJ fan, that I'd even know about Bad 25 being released. Of course, as you touched on, that is just my perception. But I remember walking into the largest record store of the largest chain of record stores, in the largest city in my country, on the release day of Bad 25 and couldn't find it anywhere - I had to ask staff for it. The staff weren't even aware of it's release/existence! After searching high and low they were able to find a copy for me. Graceland had enjoyed prominent, clear, positions in the same store.
 
ChrisC said:
But I remember walking into the largest record store of the largest chain of record stores, in the largest city in my country, on the release day of Bad 25 and couldn't find it anywhere - I had to ask staff for it. The staff weren't even aware of it's release/existence! After searching high and low they were able to find a copy for me. Graceland had enjoyed prominent, clear, positions in the same store.
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Thankfully they did much better with Xscape when it came to store promotion, actually doing banners, posters and CD stands etc. I saw many across the various JB Hi-Fi's here in NZ. Hell, there's still the odd store or two I'll still see an Xscape banner still up above the shelf.
 
Sony is only backing off of Michael because he was not the sales behemoth they expected him to be.

He's still making money LONG after his death and is my no means a failure. It's simply that the majority of the revenue over the last several years has, to my knowledge, been used to pay off the mountain of debt Michael left behind.

Sony hasn't seen much money.
 
Allusio;4163668 said:
It was the first 25th something from the Estate. And it was done well, IMO.
I don’t think there’s anything that is fans fault. But boycotters did their job of “belittle” the project very well. At least it gave its share of negativity and they are fans too.
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I don't want to bring that topic again because it's something that would start World War 3 here but it was not a good release at all. We were in 2012 and Wembley quality was horrible. Not Blu-Ray, not HD, not even HQ.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Sony is only backing off of Michael because he was not the sales behemoth they expected him to be.

He's still making money LONG after his death and is my no means a failure. It's simply that the majority of the revenue over the last several years has, to my knowledge, been used to pay off the mountain of debt Michael left behind.

Sony hasn't seen much money.
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But Michael has hit the highest paid celebrity (deceased or no) the last six years (except one) since his death. If he's making that much money, shouldn't Sony be making a lot of money also?
 
"Bad 25" was WONDERFUL! It has sold over one million copies worldwide since its release! "Xscape" has sold at least one million seven hundred thousand copies worldwide. Do I think that they could have done better? I don't know because it is very hard to tell in this current environment of both the music industry and economy. I like to think that things will get better sooner rather than later.

Oh! Also "Bad 25" was not the first "25th Anniversary" project that Sony have done thus far. They did "Thriller 25" as well which was also masterfully executed I might say! THEN there was the 1995 compilation of great importance that MOTOWN Records released on four compact discs being the classic "Soulsation!: 25th Anniversary Collection" for the Jackson 5 and some of their solo hits!
 
AlexRox said:
THEN there was the 1995 compilation of great importance that MOTOWN Records released on four compact discs being the classic "Soulsation!: 25th Anniversary Collection" for the Jackson 5 and some of their solo hits!
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Sony has nothing to do with this. It was released by Motown.

AlexRox said:
"Bad 25" was WONDERFUL! It has sold over one million copies worldwide since its release! "Xscape" has sold at least one million seven hundred thousand copies worldwide. Do I think that they could have done better? I don't know because it is very hard to tell in this current environment of both the music industry and economy.
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Bad 25 : 1 million copies in 4 years | Xscape : 1.7 millions copies in 1 year. It was certified on June 4, 2015. Even though 1 million copies is not terrible. In term of materials, Bad 25 wasn't wonderful.

And I'm not even sure Bad 25 has sold 1 million copies.
 
Oh, well, I was talking about its greatness as a product. It was exact to a "t" what it was to be as far as I am concerned. I don't know what the latest in worldwide sales are for it. The number I saw was the worldwide sale in the first week. But as it has been discussed it SEEMS like Michael's biggest punch in recent HIStory has been first week sales per se THOUGH he certainly has a past where sales could be beyond excellent over time...but that was a number of years ago I guess. ...and yes, I know "Soulsation" was a MOTOWN release hence where I specifically stated it was a, ahem, MOTOWN Records release. Which to be exact in history would be a Universal Records release BUT it seems to have been out of print well over a decade now, has it not? It's such a classic in terms of recorded song content, artwork (the U.S. cover), liner notes (per se).
 
barbee0715 said:
But Michael has hit the highest paid celebrity (deceased or no) the last six years (except one) since his death. If he's making that much money, shouldn't Sony be making a lot of money also?
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I don't think those really profitable avenues have had much to do with Sony. I know the Cirque touring show and Vegas show are extremely lucrative.
 
I can't find any sales numbers for Bad25 online, but last I recall it was struggling to reach one million. Even if it has since passed that mark, one million copies in four years is nothing to be impressed with.

barbee0715 said:
But Michael has hit the highest paid celebrity (deceased or no) the last six years (except one) since his death. If he's making that much money, shouldn't Sony be making a lot of money also?
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I believe the contract outlines that the Estate receives the vast majority of money received from posthumous projects and whatnot - trying to fact check as we speak.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I can't find any sales numbers for Bad25 online, but last I recall it was struggling to reach one million. Even if it has since passed that mark, one million copies in four years is nothing to be impressed with.



I believe the contract outlines that the Estate receives the vast majority of money received from posthumous projects and whatnot - trying to fact check as we speak.
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I actually just remember that was the case with TII-so it's possible the other projects were the same. So then Sony wouldn't be making any big money.
 
Pink Diamond Princess said:
TBH I don't think any of us should expect HUGE sales for any posthumous release because it's just that, a posthumous release. :/
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Yeah and album sales have been down for many, many years now (minus the very odd outlier). Xscape did nicely I reckon, v. happy with how that turned out :)
 
Yeah I can't blame people for buying an album that has been released a few times within a 25 yr period.. If it were not for the unreleased tracks and the concert I would not have purchased it either. Now consider the only people that would know anything new on the album would be huge fans like us that read MJ news and those who pick up the album and look at the back of the cover.... It wont sell well without unique promotion.. It's a re-release..

If you want MJ sales to jump stream his music on legal streaming sites (Spotify/Pandora) now that those are built into an equation that helps sales.. that's what you can do..

Besides that lets except that it's an album older than many fans here and still sold over 1 million...
 
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