motown lady
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Thank U-UUUUU, denisr:wub:
Well-stated & explained!
Well-stated & explained!
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Weekend News Bytes for March 7-9, 2008 (Updated for March 9 on post # 57)
- Thread starter MJJChichi
- Start date
motown lady
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"Mr. Jackson is not only somewhat tarnished, but also reclusive."
Nice try by the media in toning it down a little, but no!
Just more proof of how the media has no problem with self promotion regarding their attempts to market to the public.^_^
MJ's personal boycott, a clear example of his saying NO, served a dual purpose:
Side stepping the establishment, (the media & network awards shows), cutting them out of the profit margin for promotion on T25, while also teaching the music industry, (sony) a lesson or two. Yes! MJ both refused to provide media with inside access & to leave sony's business table & go out to promote T25!
The likely intended purpose was to punish them both for their bad behavior/prove to other artist, that they can achieve success by doing the same. MJ's T25 marketing decision was also an experiment on how he plans to market his new projects!
Because MJ has set so many industry standards, this new business strategy scares the media! They aren't willing to admit that their tabloid mindset is already beginning to cost them with the public! The proof is the public dumping of the mainstream media in favor of the internet; feedback on their tacky election coverage & success of T25.
Nice try by the media in toning it down a little, but no!
Just more proof of how the media has no problem with self promotion regarding their attempts to market to the public.^_^
MJ's personal boycott, a clear example of his saying NO, served a dual purpose:
Side stepping the establishment, (the media & network awards shows), cutting them out of the profit margin for promotion on T25, while also teaching the music industry, (sony) a lesson or two. Yes! MJ both refused to provide media with inside access & to leave sony's business table & go out to promote T25!
The likely intended purpose was to punish them both for their bad behavior/prove to other artist, that they can achieve success by doing the same. MJ's T25 marketing decision was also an experiment on how he plans to market his new projects!
Because MJ has set so many industry standards, this new business strategy scares the media! They aren't willing to admit that their tabloid mindset is already beginning to cost them with the public! The proof is the public dumping of the mainstream media in favor of the internet; feedback on their tacky election coverage & success of T25.
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"Mr. Jackson is not only somewhat tarnished, but also reclusive."
Nice try by the media by toning it down a little, but no!
Just more proof of how the media has no problem with self promotion in regard to what they attempt market to the public.^_^
MJ's personal boycott served a dual purpose:
Side stepping the establishment, (the media & network awards shows), cutting them out of the profit margin for promotion on T25, while also teaching the music industry, (sony) a lesson or two. Yes! MJ both refused to provide media with inside access & to leave sony's business table & go out to promote T25!
The likely intended purpose was to punish them both for their bad behavior/prove to other artist, that they can achieve success by doing the same. MJ's T25 marketing decision was also an experiment on how he plans to market his new projects!
Because MJ has set so many industry standards, this new business strategy scares the media! They aren't willing to admit that their tabloid mindset is already beginning to cost them with the public! The proof is the public dumping of the mainstream media in favor of the internet; feedback on their tacky election coverage & success of T25.
motown lady you speak nothing but the truth; i love how T25 is massively selling WORLDWIDE without MJ doing any promo and making SONY make amends for how they did him during the Invincible campaign
unk:unk:Big Apple2
Proud Member
motown lady, you said a mouthful.
It appears that Mike KNOWS exactly what he's doing. Who else can do this "non-promotion" PROMOTION and have it be this successful, keeping in mind that this is a 25 year old album.
Some artist with NEW projects, who are out there actively promoting their projects are not generating these numbers, i.e. Lenny Kravtiz (whom I enjoy).
What do you say to those that say it's because he's not being seen is the reason why this project is so successful? According to these morons, people are remembering the old MJ. When the new MJ emerges, it's going to be a different story. I don't at all buy that nonsense, but this is a theory I keep seeing. It's just funny seeing some give it up to him, while others come up with these lame excuses.
Big Apple2
Proud Member
I believe that "theory" is hogwash! They can't say the Thriller 25 project is unsuccessful, so they have now come up with an excuse as to why the project IS a success. LOL!
You just know if Mike "popped" up somewhere right now, in a public place, there would be a HUGE commotion, just like always. And I'm talking about TODAY'S Michael. LOL! I'm recalling when he "popped" up at the going home celebration for James Brown. Folks were going NUTS FOR TODAY'S MJ. (Remember that?)
wendy2004
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Yep! And all those copies of Ebony that flew off the shelves,GLOBALLY, were of TODAY's Michael. All those people who were falling over themselves at Jesse Jackson's bday party? Today's Michael. The mall in Vegas? Today's Michael? VMA's? MTV Awards in Japan? Today's Michael....the list goes on and on. When new music comes and the music is successful, they'll say we've all drunk the kool-aid and that's why it's successful. :wacko:Yeeps!
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Big Apple2
Proud Member
Oh now you got me over here SMILING! Thinking about when he was in Vegas, taking Paris shopping for her birthday.
It was so cute to me, because of the DIFFERENT AGES of the folks who were excited to see him. Not just young people, which is normal, but there were a bunch of OLDER folks who were just as excited to see Mike. That was just so cute.
I love the fact that Mike has fans, young and not so young (like me). LOL!
takinnostuff
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oh wendy let me add to your list:
The World Music Awards back in 2006
His arrival at the Japanese airport for the fan appreciation event in 2006
the Fan Appreciation Event in Tokyo Japan itself
the fans were going absolutely out of their minds when they saw like you said TODAY's Michael; I remember seeing a youtube video that was shot at the airport in Japan where they had a grown man weeping out of excitement from seeing Michael and this is no lie. Also at the World Music Awards how Michael completely stole the show from today's so-called "popular", current artists like Beyonce, Chris Brown etc. Even the celebrity's themsleves were there to see only one man-- Michael Jackson. So all that bullshit about "Oh Michael was only liked and hugely popular during the 80's" is just that-- bullshit. I love how things have come back in full circle for MJ. That's what happens to those who are patient, kind and overall a great human being such as him. All the haters can do now is make up lame excuses out of their asses, but anywhere he goes the public reaction totally refutes anything the media tries to put out there anyday. And that's a fact!
Christian
The World Music Awards back in 2006
His arrival at the Japanese airport for the fan appreciation event in 2006
the Fan Appreciation Event in Tokyo Japan itself
the fans were going absolutely out of their minds when they saw like you said TODAY's Michael; I remember seeing a youtube video that was shot at the airport in Japan where they had a grown man weeping out of excitement from seeing Michael and this is no lie. Also at the World Music Awards how Michael completely stole the show from today's so-called "popular", current artists like Beyonce, Chris Brown etc. Even the celebrity's themsleves were there to see only one man-- Michael Jackson. So all that bullshit about "Oh Michael was only liked and hugely popular during the 80's" is just that-- bullshit. I love how things have come back in full circle for MJ. That's what happens to those who are patient, kind and overall a great human being such as him. All the haters can do now is make up lame excuses out of their asses, but anywhere he goes the public reaction totally refutes anything the media tries to put out there anyday. And that's a fact!
Christian
Ok, it's nice to see i'm not the only one that still sees that the "new" MJ still has folks acting like bitches over him. I don't know why, but there are fans out there that play dumb when it comes to what "new" MJ is doing these days. To them, "new" MJ is struggling to get a record deal. Or to them, it's just the die hards that still care about him.
Datsymay
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Amen.
,,,,,,,,Not according to MJ who has said that he feels most comfortable on stage. ON STAGE. LOL Not just singing and dancing, but even in front of crowds. ANd even though he's not totally satisfied with anything doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy it. It goes without saying that if he DOESN'T like performing, then he's in the WRONG profession lol.
His reasons for lipsyncing is debatable. ANd he's not the only performer that does it.
And what's wrong with that? Hes a perfectionist and he likes to switch things up. Still doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy performing.
He likes going to public places on his own terms, like anyone. MTV awards with LMP for example, surrrreee doesn't look like a man who hates appearing places. And since 2005 to now, MJ has made numerous appearances at places that HE would like to go, London, Tokyo, Birthday parties, theaters, Awards shows....and for someone who doesn't like to make appearances he has had an abundance of them even AFTER a trail, a period where he's "SUPPOSED" to be a recluse. lol
IN general, He likes to shock people with appearances, and if he does it OFTEN, there's no shock in it.
Well u sure act like a person who is inside the man's head lol I think MJ more than anyone understands that when you have an album out you have to support it.
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DenisRS
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J5Master: Jackson said he feels most comfortable on stage, but that for the right moment of performance (let alone that the most perfect stage most likely should be his Neverland's theater stage when no one is there, basically, besides Michael and his dance). Just read what beyond Michael said about pain of live perfomances, which just never satisfy his perfectionism.
Why you think Jackson recorded many of his HIStory Concerts but for years refused to release it on DVD officially, as well as other tours? According to CaptainEo productions, Michael was not satisfied.
Will you ignore Jackson's words just for the sake of protecting your point of view? So yes, Michael does not like to perform publicly. Even though when being directly on stage performing he feels great, according to him, and he really likes performing at the moment. What he does not like is afterthoughts about how he performed, and his own emotional pressure on himself. So we get very rarely performing Michael Jackson, who would avoid most of opportunities to perform.
The fact is that people who like to perform publicly do it hundreds times a year and like like 10 000 times during their career. Jackson does not perform easily for years and feels totally perfect with that. He is so fine with it that it can be easily imagined that there can be no tours or performances ever again at all (though we hope, and, most certainly, there will). This just fits so natural to Michael's attitude towards performances that no one will be surprised if he will not perform for another fiver years or ever.
In childhood, Michael had a lot of performances, but since late 1970s, when he was more able to control his schedule and career, he gradually decreased his activity in performances to zero.
And, will you contradict to direct evidence of those people who know Jackson for decades personally? Will ignore their evidence just to defend your point of view? So yes, Michael does not like being public. There is barely anyone even partially as famous as him who was even partially as reluctant and reclusive in this field.
We have quotes on that starting from his friends to his former promotional/PR/management companies which were stunned with lack of cooperation on Jackson's part. No one can argue with that.
Thus I act as someone who reads what Michael tells and watches his career closely.
Michael only did couple of performances for Democrats campaign later, but those had nothing to do with Invincible; nor they were significant publicity anyway. It looked more like he just promised to someone to perform and that is it, he did it, with no bigger idea.
However, we can really hope that management will persuade Michael to make public appearances, performances and interviews (no much hopes for tour, but there is still probability for at least certain raw dates).
Why you think Jackson recorded many of his HIStory Concerts but for years refused to release it on DVD officially, as well as other tours? According to CaptainEo productions, Michael was not satisfied.
Will you ignore Jackson's words just for the sake of protecting your point of view? So yes, Michael does not like to perform publicly. Even though when being directly on stage performing he feels great, according to him, and he really likes performing at the moment. What he does not like is afterthoughts about how he performed, and his own emotional pressure on himself. So we get very rarely performing Michael Jackson, who would avoid most of opportunities to perform.
The fact is that people who like to perform publicly do it hundreds times a year and like like 10 000 times during their career. Jackson does not perform easily for years and feels totally perfect with that. He is so fine with it that it can be easily imagined that there can be no tours or performances ever again at all (though we hope, and, most certainly, there will). This just fits so natural to Michael's attitude towards performances that no one will be surprised if he will not perform for another fiver years or ever.
In childhood, Michael had a lot of performances, but since late 1970s, when he was more able to control his schedule and career, he gradually decreased his activity in performances to zero.
LMP said it directly that Michael had nothing to do with the idea of appearing on MTV with their kiss; it was manager's idea. That time Jackson agreed on that, that is it (while turning down most of other shows, performances, ceremonies).
And, will you contradict to direct evidence of those people who know Jackson for decades personally? Will ignore their evidence just to defend your point of view? So yes, Michael does not like being public. There is barely anyone even partially as famous as him who was even partially as reluctant and reclusive in this field.
We have quotes on that starting from his friends to his former promotional/PR/management companies which were stunned with lack of cooperation on Jackson's part. No one can argue with that.
Jackson understands but loaths it. And it is fact that there was no tour for Invincible (and it was not planned even irrelevantly of later problems with SME). And it is fact that Michael loaths interviews.And it is fact that he turned down every opportunity to perform in late 2001 after his 30th Anniversary concert -- on Billboard Awards, on American Music Awards, on Grammies, wherever.
Thus I act as someone who reads what Michael tells and watches his career closely.
Michael only did couple of performances for Democrats campaign later, but those had nothing to do with Invincible; nor they were significant publicity anyway. It looked more like he just promised to someone to perform and that is it, he did it, with no bigger idea.
However, we can really hope that management will persuade Michael to make public appearances, performances and interviews (no much hopes for tour, but there is still probability for at least certain raw dates).
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He turned down EVERYTHING after 30th cuz thats when the Sony crap STARTED... he refused even doing a video for sony and sony did Cry themselves.
And do u consider that MJ picks and chose when he does things? MJ has to agree to do things, thats how LMP was "manipulated" into going onstage with him. So he picks and choses. Right moment, right time, and not too often. Thats how he works. Just like he does with music period. He releases an album 2 times every decade...but is it cuz he doesn't like music? No. Thats just how he operates.
But if u feel that way fine. But like i said, it wouldnt make sense at all for him to continue to be a performer, to create performances, to call himself a performer, and not like performing at all. Like i said, MJ would be in the wrong profession if he didn't.
And Im not ignoring his words. He said hes most comfortable on stage. Not "Im most comfortable on stage at neverland by myself when no one else is watching me" Of course he's a perfectionist in all creative things he does. Theres pain in all of it. Doesnt mean that the cons of it outways the PROS for him, if it does or doesnt we dont really know...but there isnt any good reason to suggest that he doesnt.
MJ even said during invincible that he was interested in taking live performance to a different more challenging level. It didn't sound like someone who intended to never perform again or someone who doesnt like performing at all.
And do u consider that MJ picks and chose when he does things? MJ has to agree to do things, thats how LMP was "manipulated" into going onstage with him. So he picks and choses. Right moment, right time, and not too often. Thats how he works. Just like he does with music period. He releases an album 2 times every decade...but is it cuz he doesn't like music? No. Thats just how he operates.
But if u feel that way fine. But like i said, it wouldnt make sense at all for him to continue to be a performer, to create performances, to call himself a performer, and not like performing at all. Like i said, MJ would be in the wrong profession if he didn't.
And Im not ignoring his words. He said hes most comfortable on stage. Not "Im most comfortable on stage at neverland by myself when no one else is watching me" Of course he's a perfectionist in all creative things he does. Theres pain in all of it. Doesnt mean that the cons of it outways the PROS for him, if it does or doesnt we dont really know...but there isnt any good reason to suggest that he doesnt.
MJ even said during invincible that he was interested in taking live performance to a different more challenging level. It didn't sound like someone who intended to never perform again or someone who doesnt like performing at all.
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DenisRS
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No, he did not turn those shows down, in fact, he appeared on two of them, but refused to perform.
Yes, you are right, being seldom is how Michael operated. But even when concerned to release of albums, we have quotes from recording studio executive with the lines like if it was only Jackson, none of albums would be actually released. Because Michael would drag them forever for years and years and it was really hard push to make him and finally give anything to record company (Epic Records); it was so with every album.
Why Jackson is so reluctant to release his music material? Because he is perfectionist and he is never satisfied. So though he like to be #1 with his new releases in tens of countries of the world, the event still presses him emotionally. That is why he talked for long time already about stopping releasing albums, making just songs from time to time (I personally hope that this will not happen and albums will still come).
Jackson just dropped the context, which is him being upset after performances. So he was talking about the process of performance at the right moment of the action on stadium including (I did not talk earlier about only Neverland stage).
Jackson definitely likes performances, but better the way ones are filmed after long rehearsals to achieve perfection, not being crying after live performances where it seemed to him that something went less than perfect (though actually no one could notice this but him anyway).
Every show Michael appeared without performance asked for it but Jackson always declined. Even much more shows/award ceremonies were not even granted with a mere appearance.
You are correct; what Michael wanted was one-time performance with partial participation of outstanding French Jewish mime Marcel Marceau. He was so focused on forever going rehearses that he nearly died on stage ignoring his condition.
So Michael's liking of performance is totally different from usual sense of word "liking", which is about artists performing the same thing hundreds times a year and like 10 000 times during career.
No, he does not like performing in this way; no one even partially as famous as Jackson really dislikes it as much as him. Making things perfect and unique -- is what makes Michael to dislike performances in general, aside of the right moment of the action on stage.
What could be said about Michael or anyone else liking something is when there is no such big reservations about the subject. For example, Jackson likes to watch films, and he does it often. He also likes reading, and spending time with children, so he does it often.
There is no actually way to say that person likes something in general taking into account only part of it which is likable. It would be like saying someone likes untrained walking with bare foots on star-like metal "hedgehog" (common defense method to protect territories in southern regions where people have no shoes centuries back) and because it is funny tickles right before foots are shred into pieces of meat.
As You could notice from my earlier posts, I did not say that Michael is not going to ever to perform (on the contrary, I said that he will most probably will, and I personally would want him to). But we have to be patient since performance thing is rather complicated for Michael.
It is similar to touring -- Jackson said that he likes to tour, when it is about seeing huge crowds of fans on the streets, meeting with people, children, sightseeing. But he does not like much stronger being exhausted, not satisfied with the same performance routine (though he always tries to perform songs like "Billie Jean" different way on each new show), and not satisfied with his performances as whole.