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What's the max you think Invincible could have sold overall

Invincible sold 3 million in 4-5 days, physical CD's, it had a promotion budget of 25 million. This was slashed to nothing, due to conflict with Sony. Thriller, Bad, Dangerous all sold 32+ million however MJ performed in the United States numerous times to promote those albums & had Music videos. History he did no north american promotion or performances, it was down.

Obviously no tour was happening in 2001, due to 9/11. But let's say at the end of the year he holds a press conference and says he's doing his final tour in the United States starting next year, it would be a huge international deal & he'd sell out all 50 shows instantly. Sales would also spike domestically which is where he struggled since Dangerous

Under these circumstances, he would have sold 30 million very easily which is what all of his other albums did, other than History which is just below that. Depending on him not getting involved with Martin Bashir,
 
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Well, possibilities of Invincible album were almost unlimited. With good promotion album could blow people's minds. I can't say the exact number. But I guess it's around 2000 billions minimum
 
IhateTheMedia said:
Invincible sold 3 million in 4-5 days, physical CD's, it had a promotion budget of 25 million. This was slashed to nothing, due to conflict with Sony. Thriller, Bad, Dangerous all sold 32+ million however MJ performed in the United States numerous times to promote those albums & had Music videos. History he did no north american promotion or performances, it was down.

Obviously no tour was happening in 2001, due to 9/11. But let's say at the end of the year he holds a press conference and says he's doing his final tour in the United States starting next year, it would be a huge international deal & he'd sell out all 50 shows instantly. Sales would also spike domestically which is where he struggled since Dangerous

Under these circumstances, he would have sold 30 million very easily which is what all of his other albums did, other than History which is just below that. Depending on him not getting involved with Martin Bashir,
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Tour was never planned for this album. Michael said, that he didn't want to tour. Though he planned a few performances to promote Invincible album. For example he planned to perform Whatever Happens live
 
Touring helps, especially if you actually perform the new songs which is something Michael didn’t seem to realize but in the end the real quality wasn’t there. It remains a poor album to end a career with.
 
Keep in mind that the music industry at that time faced a recession, mostly because of Internet piracy and consumers who started making their own CDs, instead of buying the original ones.
IhateTheMedia said:
Obviously no tour was happening in 2001, due to 9/11. But let's say at the end of the year he holds a press conference and says he's doing his final tour in the United States starting next year, it would be a huge international deal & he'd sell out all 50 shows instantly. Sales would also spike domestically which is where he struggled since Dangerous
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It appears that there were such plans around that time.

According to Los Angeles Times, in 2001 Michael Jackson agreed to a proposed concert tour in the U.S. and Europe in order to promote the 'Invincible' album, but later he changed his mind.

Also, in 2002 (February) the singer backed out of a commitment to appear on a 10-day promotional tour (for that album) in various European countries.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Also, in 2002 (February) the singer backed out of a commitment to appear on a 10-day promotional tour (for that album) in various European countries.
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Probably Michael Jackson planned to perform Whatever Happens and You Rock My World on these performances, I guess? At least these are only songs he wanted to perform from Invincible album
 
What did it end up selling, 8 million?

Probably, with no tour, without a strong lead single, and no videos, the most it could have sold was... 8 million.

We're just gonna have to accept that MJ in 2001 wasn't the big draw he once was. Plus with every song being R&B, he alienated a large portion of his fanbase.

And it's fine. Not everything can sell 10 million copies. It's really fine.

Terminator was a big hit, but that doesn't mean every Schwarzenegger film is successful...
 
R1chard said:
What did it end up selling, 8 million?

Probably, with no tour, without a strong lead single, and no videos, the most it could have sold was... 8 million.

We're just gonna have to accept that MJ in 2001 wasn't the big draw he once was. Plus with every song being R&B, he alienated a large portion of his fanbase.

And it's fine. Not everything can sell 10 million copies. It's really fine.

Terminator was a big hit, but that doesn't mean every Schwarzenegger film is successful...
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MJ stated it sold 10 million within the first 12 months.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Keep in mind that the music industry at that time faced a recession, mostly because of Internet piracy and consumers who started making their own CDs, instead of buying the original ones.

It appears that there were such plans around that time.

According to Los Angeles Times, in 2001 Michael Jackson agreed to a proposed concert tour in the U.S. and Europe in order to promote the 'Invincible' album, but later he changed his mind.

Also, in 2002 (February) the singer backed out of a commitment to appear on a 10-day promotional tour (for that album) in various European countries.
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Was MJ's health good enough to perform 50 shows then?
 
But... MJ doesn't know. Sony doesn't know. They're not the ones selling to members of the public. Record companies don't know what happens after the CDs get to record stores. Plus we know Sony lies all the time.

Sales figures have to come from somebody independent. A 3rd party.

The RIAA and BPI/RIAJ/etc are the only ones who can provide true sales figures.
 
R1chard said:
What did it end up selling, 8 million?

Probably, with no tour, without a strong lead single, and no videos, the most it could have sold was... 8 million.

We're just gonna have to accept that MJ in 2001 wasn't the big draw he once was. Plus with every song being R&B, he alienated a large portion of his fanbase.

And it's fine. Not everything can sell 10 million copies. It's really fine.

Terminator was a big hit, but that doesn't mean every Schwarzenegger film is successful...
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It was a decent album. That could easily become iconic
 
R1chard said:
But... MJ doesn't know. Sony doesn't know. They're not the ones selling to members of the public. Record companies don't know what happens after the CDs get to record stores. Plus we know Sony lies all the time.

Sales figures have to come from somebody independent. A 3rd party.

The RIAA and BPI/RIAJ/etc are the only ones who can provide true sales figures.
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The official numbers for his albums after a year of Invincible's release was
Off the Wall - 18 Million​
Thriller - 58 Million​
Bad - 28 Million​
Dangerous - 29 Million​
History - 19 Million​
Invincible - 8 Million​
However it's possible that Invincible was behind on certifications
​
 
IhateTheMedia said:
Thriller - 58 Million
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Yes, and during the 90s Michael repeatedly said that it had sold 100 million. Can you see that the reason for this is that MJ DOES NOT KNOW HOW MANY COPIES GET SOLD? He has no way to know - he does not work in retail, and has no connections to any of these industry associations.
IhateTheMedia said:
Invincible - 8 Million
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You just said 10 million?

Anyway, as I said above, that's the total NOW.

Again, after a year on sale, according to the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, that number is closer to 6 million.
 
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R1chard said:
Yes, and during the 90s Michael repeatedly said that it had sold 100 million. Can you see that the reason for this is that MJ DOES NOT KNOW HOW MANY COPIES GET SOLD? He has no way to know - he does not work in retail, and has no connections to any of these industry associations.

As I said above, that's the total NOW.

Again, after a year on sale, according to the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, that number is closer to 6 million.
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Michael said himself Thriller sold 60 million on the Private Home Movies. Which was aired in 2003, which is exactly what it was at during the time.
 
"You Rock My World" did alright as a lead single. Top 10 in almost every country worldwide.

"Butterflies" was top 15 in America, which isn't too bad, either. The issue is that it was only released in America and there was no video. It should have been released worldwide and it should have had a video.

Releasing "Cry" as a single in any country was a mistake. "Whatever Happens" should have been the last single worldwide and had a video.

Other than that? MJ should have done more televised appearances to promote the album. Perform at the 2002 Grammy's, BET Awards and do more interviews. With all of that, yeah, I think it might have at least hit 10 million.
 
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Spaceship said:
"You Rock My World" did alright as a lead single. Top 10 in almost every country worldwide.

"Butterflies" was top 15 in America. The issue is that it was only released in America and there was no video. It should have been released worldwide and it should have had a video.

Releasing "Cry" as a single in any country was a mistake. "Whatever Happens" should have been the last single worldwide and had a video.

Other than that? MJ should have done more televised appearances to promote the album. Perform at the 2002 Grammy's, BET Awards and do more interviews. With all of that, yeah, I think it might have at least hit 10 million.
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No no no. Butterflies song is not good enough to spend money on video for this song. Single would be enough
 
I think people need to be realistic with Invincible. What song on Invincible is so undeniable that it's going to have crossover mainstream appeal? I can't name a single one. Every other album he has has that absolute bomb (or multiple). Invincible did not. Invincible had a collection of "nice" songs mixed with a bunch of average filler songs that all sounded the same. It was a directionless and pointless album on the whole.

But how many copies could it have sold? I think the copies it sold was about the amount he could sell just on name alone. The die hard Michael Jackson fans bought the album so that should give you an idea of how many of those there are out there. I think with the perfect roll out and promotion it probably sells something like what Usher's 8701 did in the US - which was a hit record - 4.4 milion.

Michael had much greater appeal internationally, though. And while the ballpark for Invincible internationally is now 10 million, I think it could have sold between 15 and 20 million had he done the right things. But once again, this is predicated mostly on the fact it's a Michael Jackson record, and that he is performing (and hopefully performing well) and that videos are getting decent film clips.

The songs that should have been released - You Rock My World, Whatever Happens, Butterflies. Anything outside of that would be a bonus and probably wouldn't chart that well.
 
Can’t Get You Out of My Head was the much bigger hit at the time YRMW came out. And I get it why. CGYOOMH sounds more catchy than YRMW, more up-tempo, has an innovative video. Maybe Heartbreaker or 2000 Watts could've filled that role.
 
Hurley509 said:
The die hard Michael Jackson fans bought the album so that should give you an idea of how many of those there are out there.
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Many of them have bought 5 copies due to the albums "limited" cover colours.
 
Hot_Street said:
Can’t Get You Out of My Head was the much bigger hit at the time YRMW came out. And I get it why. CGYOOMH sounds more catchy than YRMW, more up-tempo, has an innovative video. Maybe Heartbreaker or 2000 Watts could've filled that role.
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Heartbreaker is one of the best songs, Michael have ever recorded. It's catchy. But it's too weak for a single. For me it's like I Can't Let Her Get Away from Dangerous
 
IhateTheMedia said:
Michael said himself
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But did you see my part in bold?

Hurley509 said:
Invincible had a collection of "nice" songs mixed with a bunch of average filler songs that all sounded the same. It was a directionless and pointless album on the whole.
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That's what I was trying to say. Never before have so many songs by so many different producers sounded so homogeneous.

Hurley509 said:
But how many copies could it have sold? I think the copies it sold was about the amount he could sell just on name alone. The die hard Michael Jackson fans bought the album so that should give you an idea of how many of those there are out there.
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And that's exactly what happened. Every MJ album will always sell at least 5 or 6 million copies, for no other reason than simply because it's a MJ album.

@mjfanatic777 said:
I think You Rock My World is the album's 'bomb'. It's quite catchy.
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Exactly. But how catchy would you think it was if you weren't a MJ fan?

That's the problem. People didn't.
 
Mark Shaw said:
Heartbreaker is one of the best songs, Michael have ever recorded. It's catchy. But it's too weak for a single. For me it's like I Can't Let Her Get Away from Dangerous
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exactly
Heartbreaker is a hidden gem, but maybe too innovative for 2001
Hot_Street said:
Heartbreaker is so fast, it almost sounds like a Teddy Riley song.
I like both producers. And it was Riley, who introduced Jerkins to Michael.
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Hot_Street said:
I dont agree. Unbreakable and Heartbreaker are kick-ass! Invincible is ok, but after Heartbreaker it's anticlimatic, because it has a slower rhythm.
Heartbreaker is the perfect climax to Unbreakable. Like TDCAU to Scream.
Heartbreaker was also visionary and innovative:
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