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What's the max you think Invincible could have sold overall

No.19 on Hot 100
No.27

"Unbreakable" would have performed no better than these songs in the US if it was released to radio or as a single. "You Rock My World", "Butterflies" and maybe "Whatever Happens" were the only good choices for singles from the album
 
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Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I don't care
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Funny he had no comment about the popularity of Drake or the Cardi B & Megan Thee Stallion song, but supposedly knows what is radio friendly. Also there's the mainstream popularity of country music in the USA since the 1990s Garth Brooks, Dixie Chicks, & Shania Twain era. Right now hip hop is the most popular genre and country maybe 2nd. There's even hip hop sounds in contemporary country.
 
Michael planned to release at least TEN singles from Invincible album! It contains 16 song lol. 3 singles would be such a shame.
Unbreakable is one of the best songs, Michael have ever created. It could be a banger in radio charts
 
Why did someone post a random Cardi B song? 2001 was a totally different time. That song isn't even heavy. šŸ˜‚
Mark Shaw said:
HAAHAHAHAHAHH. Maybe Whatever Happens?? Really? šŸ¤£šŸ¤£
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It has Carlos Santana on it, but the hype from 1999's Supernatural had settled down by 2001, so it sounds a bit dated. From USA Today's review, "Carlos Santana's so-two-years-ago guitar solo on the Latin-tinged 'Whatever Happens' seems like a catch-up ploy". Given how "You Rock My World" peaked at only no.10 and "Butterflies" even lower at no.14, it may have not even broken the top 15; the album's singles were faring progressively worse. Teddy Riley wasn't that relevant in 2001, either. I still think that it should have been a single and it certainly would have been a better pick than anything else from the album (it definitely would have done better than "Cry"), but I don't think it would have been the smash hit that many fans think it would have been.
 
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Spaceship said:
No.19 on Hot 100
No.27

"Unbreakable" would have performed no better than these songs in the US if it was released to radio or as a single. "You Rock My World", "Butterflies" and maybe "Whatever Happens" were the only good choices for singles from the album
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The US billboard chart is odd af

I'm a slave 4 U was pretty much a hit everywhere else in the world where it was released. Great track and a Britney classic.

Pop (the song) was pretty trash and I remember it not being much of a hit in the UK.

As a MJ song I've always found Unbreakable to be a very good song but agree that it was not the most radio friendly track. It's not even the beat, it's the chorus for me.

It's too long winded and not catchy enough. It takes forever to get in it's grove. The mechanical vibe lacks warmth. Scream sounds more modern today than it.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
I'm a slave 4 U was pretty much a hit everywhere else in the world where it was released. Great track and a Britney classic.
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It wasn't a big hit worldwide, either; didn't hit the top 5 in most countries. In the US, it would have peaked a little higher if it was released as a CD single, but it definitely wouldn't have broken the top ten. The Neptunes didn't start to regularly produce top-ten hits until 2002. Britney's song was the only one of the fifteen singles they produced in 2001 to even break the top 30.

At least it did better than the other singles from Britney's album. "Overprotected", "I'm Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman" and "I Love Rock & Roll" were total flops in the US, although they did better in most other countries. Britney's sultry makeover was rather controversial in America and some people were boycotting her music altogether. But people were just getting burnt out with pop music in general.
 
A lot of the music critics say all sorts of things. Santana is suddenly 'over' because he had a hit album 2 years beforehand. Fact of the matter is if Whatever Happens struck a chord, it wouldn't matter who had a hit record or when. It's just more overthinking from know-it-alls. There's no real fair way to assume how Whatever Happens would have done other than to say it was a great song. But as we know, great songs don't necessarily chart well.

In some ways I think Michael is a victim of his own chart success. It seems like the entire judgement of his work now is what it sold and how well it could chart, such that we look at a song like whatever happens and judge it on whether it could chart or not. From a commercial standpoint I get it but I'd hate to think most of his career was about chasing chart success and sales.
 
Hurley509 said:
A lot of the music critics say all sorts of things. Santana is suddenly 'over' because he had a hit album 2 years beforehand. Fact of the matter is if Whatever Happens struck a chord, it wouldn't matter who had a hit record or when. It's just more overthinking from know-it-alls. There's no real fair way to assume how Whatever Happens would have done other than to say it was a great song. But as we know, great songs don't necessarily chart well.

In some ways I think Michael is a victim of his own chart success. It seems like the entire judgement of his work now is what it sold and how well it could chart, such that we look at a song like whatever happens and judge it on whether it could chart or not. From a commercial standpoint I get it but I'd hate to think most of his career was about chasing chart success and sales.
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I think it was tbh, always trying (and failing) to outdo Thriller, which was a one off phenomenon.

Always wanting to do better than his previous record and trying to sound out the best producers of the day or those that were current.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
I think it was tbh, always trying (and failing) to outdo Thriller, which was a one off phenomenon.

Always wanting to do better than his previous record and trying to sound out the best producers of the day or those that were current.
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Honestly I think MJ's idea of going for the best producers almost always worked for him. I'm not implying that invincible is bad, I just think that was the one time that it did not work in the way he may have wanted and the end result was lower quality than his previous efforts.

Just a few years before he was making tracks like She Was Loving Me and A Place With No Name, so I think it's unfortunate that he decided to start again with Rodney.

Also I agree that MJ was always obsessed with getting better. He had admitted this himself, even writing the amount of sales he wanted on his mirror. It was this drive that kept him at the top of his game and always wanting to be the best.
 
Spaceship said:
Why did someone post a random Cardi B song? 2001 was a totally different time. That song isn't even heavy. šŸ˜‚


It has Carlos Santana on it, but the hype from 1999's Supernatural had settled down by 2001, so it sounds a bit dated. From USA Today's review, "Carlos Santana's so-two-years-ago guitar solo on the Latin-tinged 'Whatever Happens' seems like a catch-up ploy". Given how "You Rock My World" peaked at only no.10 and "Butterflies" even lower at no.14, it may have not even broken the top 15; the album's singles were faring progressively worse. Teddy Riley wasn't that relevant in 2001, either. I still think that it should have been a single and it certainly would have been a better pick than anything else from the album (it definitely would have done better than "Cry"), but I don't think it would have been the smash hit that many fans think it would have been.
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Unbreakable, You Rock My World and Whatever Happens - Three Main Songs from Invincible album. They could hit number 1 with a decent promotion
 
Spaceship said:
Why did someone post a random Cardi B song? 2001 was a totally different time. That song isn't even heavy. šŸ˜‚
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If you ask a heavy metal, psychedelic rock, stoner rock, or grunge listener, they would probably say not a single Michael Jackson song is "heavy". The word "heavy" is even in the term "heavy metal". There is nothing heavy about Unbreakable. It's a R&B/dance song and dance music songs aren't considered heavy, it's not like Metallica or Soundgarden. That's like saying disco is "heavy". You say 2001 was a different time, but Lil' Kim was out then and acts like Nicki Minaj & Cardi B are no different from Lil' Kim & Foxy Brown. Nicki Minaj copied Kim's look & image. Around 1989 there was a female rap group called Hoez With Attitude, same thing. You could also go all the way back to the 1930s with the blues singer Lucille Bogan.
 
Did someone really just say Lil Kim was relevant in 2001 lol. "Lady Marmalade" was a joint single with more popular artists. Still not sure why Cardi was brought up šŸ˜‚

Anyway, I don't see why music geeks have to split hairs over definitions, but something that sounds overproduced, overblown, or overintense is heavy. The point is that "Unbreakable" sounds too bloated to work on radio. Rodney Jerkins said of the songs he produced, "When you play his new CD, compared to somebody else's CD, you may have to turn it down 'cause it's banging so hard. That's what I went for." That's exactly how "Unbreakable" sounds.

Highly uptempo songs that were big on digital beats like that were on their way out in 2001. Case in point, 'N Sync's "Bye Bye Bye" sounded like that and it was huge in 2000, but "Pop" the following year wasn't. "Unbreakable" would have done just as poorly. And Rodney's remix of Britney's "Overproduced"?
Basically has "Unbreakable" written all over it. No.86 on Hot 100, flopperoni pizza. Not that "Unbreakable" would have peaked just as low, but it probably wouldn't have come close to the top ten.
 
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Spaceship said:
Did someone really just say Lil Kim was relevant in 2001 lol. "Lady Marmalade" was a joint single with more popular artists. Still not sure why Cardi was brought up šŸ˜‚

Anyway, I don't see why music geeks have to split hairs over definitions, but something that sounds overproduced, overblown, or overintense is heavy. The point is that "Unbreakable" sounds too bloated to work on radio. Rodney Jerkins said of the songs he produced, "When you play his new CD, compared to somebody else's CD, you may have to turn it down 'cause it's banging so hard. That's what I went for." That's exactly how "Unbreakable" sounds.

Highly uptempo songs that were big on digital beats like that were on their way out in 2001. Case in point, 'N Sync's "Bye Bye Bye" sounded like that and it was huge in 2000, but "Pop" the following year wasn't. "Unbreakable" would have done just as poorly. And Rodney's remix of Britney's "Overproduced"?
Basically has "Unbreakable" written all over it. No.86 on Hot 100, flopperoni pizza.
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Overprotective does give me Unbreakable vibes and even more so when it came out , I remember it well and thought the same back then.

An overproduced mess in my opinion. I do like Unbreakable much better but it would not have been the hit that people think, even with a kick ass music video and incredible new mind-blowing choreography (according to Richard) šŸ¤£
 
You could maybe make a case that Mary J Blige's no 1 hit "Family Affair" released in 2001 sounds similar to "Unbreakable"
Both are uptempo and are hip hop or hip hop influenced. But not quite similar enough; Blige's song is comparatively softer, so listeners aren't burnt out.
 
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Spaceship said:
You could maybe make a case that Mary J Blige's no 1 hit "Family Affair" released in 2001 sounds similar to "Unbreakable"
Both are uptempo and are hip hop or hip hop influenced. But not quite similar enough; Blige's song is comparatively softer, so listeners aren't burnt out.
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Just take it back to Superthug and Unbelievable. He liked that sound and thought it still sounded good.
 
"Superthug" wasn't even a big hit back in 1998. Only peaked at no.36. As said before, the Neptunes weren't big hitmakers until 2002.
 
Spaceship said:
"Superthug" wasn't even a big hit back in 1998. Only peaked at no.36. As said before, the Neptunes weren't big hitmakers until 2002.
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N.O.R.E's next song produced by them was a top 10 hit. Anyway, this sound put them on the map.

Usher's U Don't Have To Call also has a similar sound
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
N.O.R.E's next song produced by them was a top 10 hit.
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That wasn't their next song for Noreaga. "Superthug" came out 1998, Noreaga's next song by the Neptunes was "Oh No" in 1999 and it flopped hard. "Nothing" came out three years later in 2002.
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Anyway, this sound put them on the map.
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Not really. Before 2002, their only top ten hit was "Looking at Me" for Mase and that was back in 1998. It took four years for them to return to that level of success.
 
Unbreakable is the definition of an Invincible banger.
with the initially planned music video, this could have been easily #1 worldwide.
 
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