Whitney Houston Has Passed Away

[Ginger]

I'm actually glad Michael's memorial wasn't this overly religious...

I liked most speeches, but I didn't like that preacher with the red belt towards the end. Too agressive, too fundy for my taste.

Well, this service was for Whitney and the Baptist sect is what she was raised and identified with: it wasn't a "show" for her fans or anybody, they sent her home in the way they knew how and what she would have wanted - it's a Baptist tradition. This service was much more personal in that aspect compared with MJ's memorial: at least there was a sense that these people actually knew her and I appreciated the personal and touching stories about Whitney. She was a person: someone's mother, daughter, aunt, niece, cousing and friend, not just a performer.

 

[MsCassieMollie]

NO.

But this isn't the right thread and most certainly not the right moment to discuss that.

But why do you feel that way? Please explain.

 

[Severus Snape]

She and Michael were a lot a like. I like to think that they are dueting in heaven now.

They were nothing alike, at all, and in any case, this is about Whitney. Don't bring Michael into it. I've already figuratively barfed every time the media tries to draw parallels between these two, where none exist other than race and talent.

 

[Victory22]

Well, this service was for Whitney and the Baptist sect is what she was raised and identified with: it wasn't a "show" for her fans or anybody, they sent her home in the way they knew how and what she would have wanted - it's a Baptist tradition. This service was much more personal in that aspect compared with MJ's memorial: at least there was a sense that these people actually knew her and I appreciated the personal and touching stories about Whitney. She was a person: someone's mother, daughter, aunt, niece, cousing and friend, not just a performer.

It was a lovely service for a lovely lady. I hope it brought comfort to her family. Whitney would have loved it and I was proud that the world got a chance to share a part of African American culture which is not often seen outside our community. I loved Michael’s memorial in a different way because his was for his fans who mourned him more profoundly then his own family. The main thing I noticed with the Houston’s is how personally they express their hurt and deep love for Whitney.

 

[HIStory]

Well, this service was for Whitney and the Baptist sect is what she was raised and identified with: it wasn't a "show" for her fans or anybody, they sent her home in the way they knew how and what she would have wanted - it's a Baptist tradition. This service was much more personal in that aspect compared with MJ's memorial: at least there was a sense that these people actually knew her and I appreciated the personal and touching stories about Whitney. She was a person: someone's mother, daughter, aunt, niece, cousing and friend, not just a performer.

And who said she wasn't a person or that it should have been a show for the fans? They can have any ceremony they want for her. I just said I'm glad Michael's wasn't like this in this aspect. BTW, I have seen even people on a Whitney forum complain about that preacher and how his sermon had nothing to do with Whitney at all and was more like self-promotion. I'm definitely not the only one who realized it and found that part a bit... odd. The rest was nice.

 

[Ginger]

Like I said, it was a Baptist service and if you're familiar with a Baptist service, the preacher's sermon at the end is a life lesson, it's about life and God in general and how Whitney's life intertwined with those teachings.

IMO, Whitney's service was definitely all about Whitney, her life and the love of God. I got a sense as to who Whitney was as a person by the people who loved her and knew her, I didn't get that with Michael's service.

 

[Ginger]

It was a lovely service for a lovely lady. I hope it brought comfort to her family. Whitney would have loved it and I was proud that the world got a chance to share a part of African American culture which is not often seen outside our community. I loved Michael’s memorial in a different way because his was for his fans who mourned him more profoundly then his own family. The main thing I noticed with the Houston’s is how personally they express their hurt and deep love for Whitney.

Amen!

 

[enlightenu]

Like I said, it was a Baptist service and if you're familiar with a Baptist service, the preacher's sermon at the end is a life lesson, it's about life and God in general and how Whitney's life intertwined with those teachings.

IMO, Whitney's service was definitely all about Whitney, her life and the love of God. I got a sense as to who Whitney was as a person by the people who loved her and knew her, I didn't get that with Michael's service.

This is like the umteenth time I've heard this arguement. What is lost (or conveniently forgotten) is the following facts:

1. Whitney Houston and Michael jackson's religious upbringing was different. Whitney was raised as Baptist; Michael raised as a Jehovah's Witness. Therefore, their services were automatically going to be different. And their services were fitting for them as individuals.

2. What the public and media saw in 2009 was Michael's PUBLIC memorial; which was given for his fans. That was a generous compromise on Katherine Jackson's part because she originally wanted Michael's send off to be for his family and close friends only. She had to be talked into allowing a public memorial to be shown. She and the rest of the family acknowleged that Michael was THEIR family member, he was a GLOBAL MEGA-star, and a GLOBAL ICON as well and his fans wanted to be able to say their goodbyes. And for the record, the public memorial did address who Michael was as a person as well as the greatest entertainer who ever lived.

3. Michael Jackson did have a funeral that was private. His funeral was very spiritual and Bible-based and was about Michael the person. As a Jehovah's Witness myself, and as a person whose father was given a Jehovah's Witness service, I know what I'm talking about. Jehovah's Witness funerals are simple, low-key and to the point. However, the services are very moving and spiritual and thoroughly Bible-based in information as to the true condition of the dead, the true future of the dead and the true reason why we all die. All of that is serves not only informative; but also a comfort to the bereaved, reminding them that just as Jesus resurrected people when he was on the earth; he will resurrect our dead loved ones in the near future and we will be able to be reunited with them here on earth under conditions that are VASTLY different than what we see now. That's what Michael was taught and believed---even after he left the Jehovah's Witness faith, he didn't totally forget nor abandon those beliefs. He included those beliefs in some ways in some of his songs and some of his videos.

I felt I had to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of people trying to throw slick shade at Michael's family in regards to to send off.

 

[ginvid]

I just wanted to say guys that if the direction of the thread is to compare the two events, that is fine. But remember that does not mean that we can segueway into a reason to bash the Jacksons.

We also have to remember that Michael's was a memorial for the fans. A Memorial. Whitney's was a Funeral for her friends and family that was televised and not meant for the fans (as Winans stated). Two different events with two different purposes.

Let's please keep it respectful in this thread.

Thanks! :flowers:

 

[Ginger]

This is like the umteenth time I've heard this arguement. What is lost (or conveniently forgotten) is the following facts:

1. Whitney Houston and Michael jackson's religious upbringing was different. Whitney was raised as Baptist; Michael raised as a Jehovah's Witness. Therefore, their services were automatically going to be different. And their services were fitting for them as individuals.

2. What the public and media saw in 2009 was Michael's PUBLIC memorial; which was given for his fans. That was a generous compromise on Katherine Jackson's part because she originally wanted Michael's send off to be for his family and close friends only. She had to be talked into allowing a public memorial to be shown. She and the rest of the family acknowleged that Michael was THEIR family member, he was a GLOBAL MEGA-star, and a GLOBAL ICON as well and his fans wanted to be able to say their goodbyes. And for the record, the public memorial did address who Michael was as a person as well as the greatest entertainer who ever lived.

3. Michael Jackson did have a funeral that was private. His funeral was very spiritual and Bible-based and was about Michael the person. As a Jehovah's Witness myself, and as a person whose father was given a Jehovah's Witness service, I know what I'm talking about. Jehovah's Witness funerals are simple, low-key and to the point. However, the services are very moving and spiritual and thoroughly Bible-based in information as to the true condition of the dead, the true future of the dead and the true reason why we all die. All of that is serves not only informative; but also a comfort to the bereaved, reminding them that just as Jesus resurrected people when he was on the earth; he will resurrect our dead loved ones in the near future and we will be able to be reunited with them here on earth under conditions that are VASTLY different than what we see now. That's what Michael was taught and believed---even after he left the Jehovah's Witness faith, he didn't totally forget nor abandon those beliefs. He included those beliefs in some ways in some of his songs and some of his videos.

I felt I had to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of people trying to throw slick shade at Michael's family in regards to to send off.

I agree with the first part but the rest I take issue with only because I'm not taking a swipe at the Jacksons. I know the services were very different based on their upbringing but MJ's Memorial was more like a show and not about the man, IMO. I understand it was more for the fans but it should have been about MJ from the very beginning, JMO. And, I personally, didn't feel as if the memorial was about MJ, I didn't learn anything about him that I didn't already know based on some of the euologies. The person that brought it home was Paris but his real friends didn't even speak, and some chose not to attend, and I think it's because it's something he wouldn't have wanted. Again, JMO.

 

[Victory22]

I thought Rev. Al Sharpton, Maya Angelou, Stevie Wonder and Usher gave us a wonderful sense of who MJ was. Also the two King children when they told the story of Michael calling their mother Coretta when she was ill. Paris sealed it and brought everything home with a few simple words. She was THE family member that let the word know Michael was human and deeply loved.

 

[enlightenu]

I agree with the first part but the rest I take issue with only because I'm not taking a swipe at the Jacksons. I know the services were very different based on their upbringing but MJ's Memorial was more like a show and not about the man, IMO. I understand it was more for the fans but it should have been about MJ from the very beginning, JMO. And, I personally, didn't feel as if the memorial was about MJ, I didn't learn anything about him that I didn't already know based on some of the euologies. The person that brought it home was Paris but his real friends didn't even speak, and some chose not to attend, and I think it's because it's something he wouldn't have wanted. Again, JMO.

I respect your opinion, but like I mentioned before, there was a difference between what you and I saw at the PUBLIC memorial and what actually happened at Michael's PRIVATE funeral. Remember his PRIVATE funeral service (which was Jehovah's Witness based) WAS NOT TELEVISED. So no one can truly say that Michael's PRIVATE service wasn't personal nor spiritual nor about Michael the person. Like I mentioned I know what goes on in Jehovah's Witness funerals becasue I've been to enough of them and my father had such a service.

Whitney's actual Homegoing service (based on her Baptist upbringing) WAS TELEVISED and people actually saw what happens in an African American homegoing service; but noone (other than the attendees) saw what happened in Michael's PRIVATE Jehovah's Witness service. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[enlightenu]

I thought Rev. Al Sharpton, Maya Angelou, Stevie Wonder and Usher gave us a wonderful sense of who MJ was. Also the two King children when they told the story of Michael calling their mother Coretta when she was ill. Paris sealed it and brought everything home with a few simple words. She was THE family member that let the word know Michael was human and deeply loved.

Not to mention that funny story from Magic Johnson about the Kentucky Fried Chicken. The memories of the young little Michael from Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy. The dynamics of Michael's friendship with Brooke Shields (regardless of how some of us may feel about her). Michael's generosity, humanitarianism recalled by Democratic Rep. Sheila jackson Lee. Marlon's personal, heartfelt accounts about Michael, his brother. And Paris telling the world about Michael the DAD and her love for him----after what she said. That forever shut up anyone who had something negative to say about Michael as a parent. So even at the public memorial, Michael the person, was talked about.

 

[Ginger]

I respect your opinion, but like I mentioned before, there was a difference between what you and I saw at the PUBLIC memorial and what actually happened at Michael's PRIVATE funeral. Remember his PRIVATE funeral service (which was Jehovah's Witness based) WAS NOT TELEVISED. So no one can truly say that Michael's PRIVATE service wasn't personal nor spiritual nor about Michael the person. Like I mentioned I know what goes on in Jehovah's Witness funerals becasue I've been to enough of them and my father had such a service.

Whitney's actual Homegoing service (based on her Baptist upbringing) WAS TELEVISED and people actually saw what happens in an African American homegoing service; but noone (other than the attendees) saw what happened in Michael's PRIVATE Jehovah's Witness service. That's the point I was trying to make.

You are right, we don't know what happened with MJ's PRIVATE funeral which is not the topic, it's about the public memorial in comparison to Whitney's private but public funeral. Not once did I mention MJ's private funeral because it's not what I'm talking about.

 

[Ginger]

Not to mention that funny story from Magic Johnson about the Kentucky Fried Chicken. The memories of the young little Michael from Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy. The dynamics of Michael's friendship with Brooke Shields (regardless of how some of us may feel about her). Michael's generosity, humanitarianism recalled by Democratic Rep. Sheila jackson Lee. Marlon's personal, heartfelt accounts about Michael, his brother. And Paris telling the world about Michael the DAD and her love for him----after what she said. That forever shut up anyone who had something negative to say about Michael as a parent. So even at the public memorial, Michael the person, was talked about.

And that is what I, guess, I'm trying to say, I didn't feel any personal connection between any of these people, except for Marlon, Paris, Berry and Stevie, to MJ.

 

[Victory22]

Not to mention that funny story from Magic Johnson about the Kentucky Fried Chicken. The memories of the young little Michael from Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy. The dynamics of Michael's friendship with Brooke Shields (regardless of how some of us may feel about her). Michael's generosity, humanitarianism recalled by Democratic Rep. Sheila jackson Lee. Marlon's personal, heartfelt accounts about Michael, his brother. And Paris telling the world about Michael the DAD and her love for him----after what she said. That forever shut up anyone who had something negative to say about Michael as a parent. So even at the public memorial, Michael the person, was talked about.

I really loved what Brook had to say. She made me cry.

 

[marebear]

They were nothing alike, at all, and in any case, this is about Whitney. Don't bring Michael into it. I've already figuratively barfed every time the media tries to draw parallels between these two, where none exist other than race and talent.

I can bring Michael up if I want. I don't think i said anything wrong. I do see parallels or similarities in their careers but I know they were completely two different people. I think they were good people too. It's just my opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree with my thoughts but there is no need for people to be rude and feel like I am be yelled at.

 

[ExoticPrincess]

You are right, we don't know what happened with MJ's PRIVATE funeral which is not the topic, it's about the public memorial in comparison to Whitney's private but public funeral. Not once did I mention MJ's private funeral because it's not what I'm talking about.

You are totally missing enlightenu's point. As we all saw, Whitney's family gave her a private/public FUNERAL/HOMEGOING service based on her Baptist beliefs. Michael's family also gave him a PRIVATE funeral service based on his religious upbringing before the public memorial. The Jackson's chose to give the public a PUBLIC MEMORIAL service, the Houston's chose not to do that. You can't honestly compare the two.

 

[Victory22]

They had a lot in common in my opinion yet they were also very different. Their colleges in the entertainment community gave both of them a great outpouring of love but I felt the genuine grief of the Houston family much more than the J’s. That is the glaring difference I saw and plus one was closed to the public and the other was open.

 

[jaydom7]

They had a lot in common in my opinion yet they were also very different. Their colleges in the entertainment community gave both of them a great outpouring of love but I felt the genuine grief of the Houston family much more than the J’s. That is the glaring difference I saw and plus one was closed to the public and the other was open.

I agree.. I saw the genuine grief from Whitney's family as well. I didn't feel the same way about MJ's family at all other than Mike's kids

 

[Victory22]

Exactly! That is what I was trying to express.

 

[Severus Snape]

I can bring Michael up if I want. I don't think i said anything wrong. I do see parallels or similarities in their careers but I know they were completely two different people. I think they were good people too. It's just my opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree with my thoughts but there is no need for people to be rude and feel like I am be yelled at.

In regards to feeling like you're being "yelled" at, that's because you've touched a nerve. Have you seen the media bringing him in time and time again ever since the news of her unfortunate death broke out, when the discussion is supposed to be about Whitney Houston and her life, not about what happened to Michael, or who they think Michael was? A nerve's already been touched with all the media talk about him resurfacing now. The last thing we need is a portion of MJ fans appearing to be jumping on that wagon.

No one's chastising you for thinking they're alike [I don't see how anyone could think that, but whatever]. But if you're going to say that, at least explain it further. We're not in your mind and we don't know what you think.

 

[ExoticPrincess]

Well, I did'nt think it would happen, but it has....

The National Enquirer has on the front page of its new issue, a photo of Whitney on her casket. Are these people without a conscience? what does posting this pic serve?

Talk about tacky and classless! I sincerely hope there is a public backlash over this!

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

Well, I did'nt think it would happen, but it has....

The National Enquirer has on the front page of its new issue, a photo of Whitney on her casket. Are these people without a conscience? what does posting this pic serve?

Talk about tacky and classless! I sincerely hope there is a public backlash over this!

As expected. I was thinking of opening a new thread to keep the nasty stuff out of an honorary thread (and maybe the mods will split the media stuff off this thread, don't know)

Caught a sharp tongued review of the media last night. (don't know if people outside the US can see this).
I'm not a Lewis Black fan AT ALL = but if this guy thinks you're a jerk- you should probably go inside yourself. He was spot on in most of his scathing remarks. I found it almost cathartic. Brought up the point too that most of us have familiarity with here... WAIT FOR AN AUTOPSY result before you expose yourself as a nasty person.

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart	Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c
Back in Black - Whitney Houston's Death
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor & Satire Blog The Daily Show on Facebook

"CNN resident hearse chaser Nancy Grace." Yup.

 

[MsCassieMollie]

claudiadoina,

do you have something against Whitney? Your recent posts sorta implies that....

 

[kissybissy]

The posting of her picture in the coffin was disrespectful. However, I don't see anything chilly as The Daily Mail reported. She looked beautiful and at peace.

 

[claudiadoina]

claudiadoina,

do you have something against Whitney? Your recent posts sorta implies that....

No, nothing against her.I am against people trying hard to compare her personal/professional life and her struggle and death with Michael's in any way possible and inventing a relationship between the two of them wich didn't really exist.

Michael can't be compared with anyone, not just Whitney.

There was only one thread about her on MJJC (as I could see at least) and before her death and in 2 years there was only 10 replies, after she passed 10 threads with dozens pages..makes me wonder....

 

[MsCassieMollie]

The posting of her picture in the coffin was disrespectful. However, I don't see anything chilly as The Daily Mail reported. She looked beautiful and at peace.

I'm pissed that a close friend and family member would sell her pic from a PRIVATE wake to that tabloid trash NE.

But you're right, Whitney does look beautiful & peaceful.

 

[MsCassieMollie]

No, nothing against her.I am against people trying hard to compare her personal/professional life and her struggle and death with Michael's in any way possible and inventing a relationship between the two of them wich didn't really exist.

Michael can't be compared with anyone, not just Whitney.

There was only one thread about her on MJJC (as I could see at least) and before her death and in 2 years there was only 10 replies, after she passed 10 threads with dozens pages..makes me wonder....

Oh Ok. Honestly I don't see nothing wrong with the comparisons 'cause I do see some (both successful African-Americans who the white media tore down for years, etc.) and it's VERY understand that there are some don't see the similarities. I, too, don't like when people compare their deaths, funerals, memorials, etc. I don't think they were ever in a relationship at all (it's possible they could have done some "things") but just good friends.

And you're right, MJ can only be MJ. Nippy can only be Nippy.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

I actually think there's absolutely nothing wrong with the sudden explosion of Houston related posts.
For the simple fact that a lot of MJ fans actually do mean it when they say that the premature judgement of someone who gave the world joy through music is not okay- it wasn't okay with Michael and it's not okay with Whitney Houston.
For me that doesn't mean creating some ultra special relationship between the two- I can keep that separate. But it's not a huge stretch to actually apply some basic empathy to another artist. It doesn't mean throwing them into the same boat, etc.
The thing is thought that in MY mind there is a cross connection. When I was a teenager I used to sing
"From the moment I saw you
I went outta my mind
Though I never believed in, love at first sight"- while staring at MJ posters.
:wild: When I saw "Bodyguard", I was convinced there's nothing that could possibly stand in the way of my marrying MJ. :cheeky: "I thought, see, they're even making movies about it. Great, I just have to become a bodyguard, I guess." (yes, digging through my delusional teenage mind...)
I'm not a black girl from New Jersey- I am an almost translucent girl from the former East Germany- and STILL her music had an impact on me. Music 'does' different things to different people and unless you're in someone's head and mind as Snape said- you're not gonna know in detail about that.

I simply observe that people (generalizing here with the ultra wide brush stroke) in general love themselves great artistry and great emotion on a high musical level- but the same artists whom many once adored get ripped to shreds when just a peak of their other humanity shows- the same humanity that makes someone a great artist when they sing about love- is the same humanity that leads to being human and human struggles. (I'm not so much talking about anyone here, more what I have read green in the face in the comment sections and on facebook)

To fight a human struggle is not what is 'weak'- weak is the one who proclaims themselves infallible and immune to any human struggle that most of us know. There's an arrogance that becomes visible toward artists who are humans- the "see, you're not so perfect as you're artistry suggests". And it reeks of kicking someone when they're perceived to be down in someone else's eye- and that alone does warrant mentioning by those who fought for MJ because they never once in a million years perceived MJ as the 'freak' that a lot of people were convinced of seeing.

It could be empathy, sympathy and a hole other range of emotions. Thriller was actually the first LP that I bought- and "I'm your baby tonight" was the first CD that I bought.
So yes, I am shaken when I see certain media outlets descend on people they love to call 'weak'- but who accomplished things in their life that are so out of reach for most people.

Why did I not post in the Houston thread before her death? Because I was largely busy standing at the edge of the swirling black hole that the death of Michael continues to be. Great joy in the being Michael and outstanding, most defined and exquisitely detailed pain as well.

I'm a human being and it greatly disturbs me when an artist gets trampled on with posthumous, useless "I told you so", before their body has even arrived at the morgue. And as a fellow musician I am very disturbed by the way musicians get treated as "thanks for being the lovely backdrop and soundtrack to my life and now go away, please" attitude that so many artists experience in their lifetime. Earth is not a gentle environment for anyone with a greater sensibility than a loaf of bread. That basic understand among us humans should actually lead to greater empathy to fellow humans- but it somehow doesn't work out that way.

It doesn't mean that I have to liken these two to one another as being very similar. Absolutely not. They crossed paths and how could they not cross paths in this life??

You could of course say that people die every day and I don't post about it- very true. But there is also an advantage of being unknown. Those who loved you will cry for you. But they don't have to defend you to a worldwide audience of DAs, judges and juries rolled all into one. When I die, my family will bury me, nobody is going to analyze my last drink and if my hair was flawless, for crying out loud.

So yes, what is being done to those with a higher profile is out of proportion and frankly cruel. And I don't wish it on anybody.

And I was hoping that on a Michael Jackson board no poster would have to explain themselves for their basic motivations of humanity.

If her death doesn't move and affect you- I envy that. It affects me and especially the media treatment. I figured that an MJ board would be largely sympathetic to that.