Who thinks Michael was awake when he recieved the propofol?

Can you explain why you believe so?


In another thread someone brought up the word "Lividity" I think I spelled it right; but I asked my Granny about it shes a Trauma Nurse and she said that was not a Good sign that meant the person had been dead for a few hours for that to happen and she also told me asked me if any Respiration Equipment was used and I told her about the equipment they say was found, she said it sounds like they had him hooked up just like a person on Life Support where they bypassed his heart and administered drugs to slowly kill him and throw the time of death off but he had been dead for hours and kept on Life Support because she says there is no way a person's body could become Lividity even in an hours that process she said takes hours, but here is an article I was reading yesterday but its just what Granny said, I didnt pay much attention to anything else but the Lividty, dont know how accurate the article is but if its true about this Lividty stuff he was definantly Murdered and had been dead for hours when Dr. Murray found him or made the 911 call and my Granny is always right:




JACKSON 'DEAD FOR 5 HOURS' BEFORE 911 CALL



REVELATION: Jackson may have been dead for hours before paramedics alerted
Sunday August 30,2009
By Mike Parker

MICHAEL JACKSON may have been dead for five hours before paramedics were called, forensic evidence has revealed. Experts now believe he was moved to his own master bedroom suite by two people after he died from cardiac arrest.


Retired FBI special agent Ted Gunderson, who has independently monitored the case, last night said the new evidence pointed to a “massive cover-up” by the singer’s personal physician, Dr Conrad Murray.

He said: “Did Murray try to fool people into thinking Jackson died on the way to hospital in the hope an autopsy could be avoided? If so, it didn’t work, which is why he had to confess to administering Propofol.”

Los Angeles county coroner Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran has ruled that an overdose of the hospital-strength anaesthetic, administered by intravenous drip, caused Jackson’s cardiac arrest.

Traces of anti-anxiety drug Xanax were found in the singer’s body plus high doses of powerful sedatives Lorazepam and Midazolam.

Forensic specialists also believe Jackson died hours before paramedics received the 911 emergency call that sent them to the star’s rented Holmby Hills mansion on June 25. Dr Steven Hoefflin, who is helping the Jackson family investigate the death, yesterday revealed he had learned shocking new details from the emergency crew and medical staff.

He explained: “They say he had lividity, which means his blood had already sunk to the back of his body. This indicates Michael’s heart had stopped hours earlier.”

Experts at the LA coroner’s office also believe Jackson was moved after he died, following the discovery of disruptions in the pattern of livor mortis on his body. This purplish discolouration marks where blood has settled in a lifeless body and usually takes at least five hours to become apparent.


Pathologist Dr Cyril Wecht, who is not involved in the case, said: “If someone carried the body from one room to another, the livor would be ‘broken’ where contact with the body was made. If one person held his ankles and the other held him under his arms, there would be corresponding white interruptions of livor mortis in those spots.”


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A further clue suggesting a cover-up comes from photographs of Jackson’s and Dr Murray’s beds, according to former FBI agent Gunderson: “Usually, when someone is given CPR, he or she coughs up sputum, or bloody mucus and vomit, but we didn’t see any tell-tale signs on Michael’s bed or Dr Murray’s bed.

“What we do see in the photo of Dr Murray’s room is a discarded medical towel wadded up under the night table. That might have been used to collect those bodily fluids, in which case Michael’s body was definitely later moved to his own room.”

These astonishing findings appear to be confirmed by a search warrant affidavit following a raid on Dr Murray’s office. It states he administered 25mg of Propofol to Jackson at 10.40am on June 25.

During a hospital operation, a patient’s vital signs would be continuously monitored while he or she was “under”. However, records reveal Dr Murray was on his phone to three people from 11.18am to 12.05pm. The emergency call was made, too late, at exactly 12.22pm.

Dr Michael Lippe, who has never treated Jackson, said: “Giving Michael Propofol after all the other drugs would put him into a deep sleep and stop his breathing.

“If it were in a hospital setting, that wouldn’t be a problem because you can resuscitate very easily. But in a house, if there was no revival equipment, it was inevitable that Michael was going to die.”

Dr Murray’s attorney, Edward Chernoff, said: “Dr Murray simply never told investigators that he found Michael Jackson at 11am, not breathing. Much of what was in the search warrant affidavit is factual. However, unfortunately much is police theory. Dr Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson’s room to make phone calls at all.”


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/123802/Jackson-'dead-for-5-hours'-before-911-call/
 
Oh yeah, I remember hearing that.

And I realized they haven't issused the EXACT time of death yet. This is scary.

Also, the minimum number of hours that can pass before lividity shows up is three hours. So 10:30 - 12:30, that would make sense. But if results show it was more than three hours, then that means Murray was still injecting drugs into Michael even when he was gone.

But if Michael was dead 5 hours before 911 was called, then why the hell did tox results show medicine injected into him around 7am and 10am?

There is a lot they still aren't telling us.

Dr Murray’s attorney, Edward Chernoff, said: “Dr Murray simply never told investigators that he found Michael Jackson at 11am, not breathing. Much of what was in the search warrant affidavit is factual. However, unfortunately much is police theory. Dr Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson’s room to make phone calls at all.”

Okay, so a cardiologist is in his patient's room while his patient suddenly goes into cardiac arrest, yet the expert cardiologist is still unable to revive his patient's heart.......well, that just makes him seem more idiotic because there's Michael right behind his back suddenly entering into cardiac arrest but Murray is too busy on his phone to even be aware. That idiot and his lawyer shouldn't even speak.
 
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but why? we still don't have a motive for Murray. so it's time to start thinking of other people, other motives along with him. please read the Sony thread, people...

You want motive.

Let's see he was broke.

About to lose his house.

About to go to jail for child support.

Michael paid him nothing. He didn;t have the money to pay him. He didn't sign the contract.

Who was paying Murray AEG!!!!! (paid him to kill him)

What was the better offer. Kill Michael pay you know. Help me sleep pay you later.

How he get his child support paid so suddenly (he suppose to be in jail for that)
 
You want motive.

Let's see he was broke.

About to lose his house.

About to go to jail for child support.

Michael paid him nothing. He didn;t have the money to pay him. He didn't sign the contract.

Who was paying Murray AEG!!!!! (paid him to kill him)

What was the better offer. Kill Michael pay you know. Help me sleep pay you later.

How he get his child support paid so suddenly (he suppose to be in jail for that)

I don't think Michael would hire someone with that background. Does anyone think so?
 
But if Michael was dead 5 hours before 911 was called, then why the hell did tox results show medicine injected into him around 7am and 10am?

The tox results haven't specified what time those medications were administered to MJ - only that they were in his system. My understanding is that the times they were given is something that has been said by Murray - who could very easily, and probably is, lying about the whole thing.
 
In another thread someone brought up the word "Lividity" I think I spelled it right; but I asked my Granny about it shes a Trauma Nurse and she said that was not a Good sign that meant the person had been dead for a few hours for that to happen and she also told me asked me if any Respiration Equipment was used and I told her about the equipment they say was found, she said it sounds like they had him hooked up just like a person on Life Support where they bypassed his heart and administered drugs to slowly kill him and throw the time of death off but he had been dead for hours and kept on Life Support because she says there is no way a person's body could become Lividity even in an hours that process she said takes hours, but here is an article I was reading yesterday but its just what Granny said, I didnt pay much attention to anything else but the Lividty, dont know how accurate the article is but if its true about this Lividty stuff he was definantly Murdered and had been dead for hours when Dr. Murray found him or made the 911 call and my Granny is always right:



JACKSON 'DEAD FOR 5 HOURS' BEFORE 911 CALL



REVELATION: Jackson may have been dead for hours before paramedics alerted
Sunday August 30,2009
By Mike Parker

MICHAEL JACKSON may have been dead for five hours before paramedics were called, forensic evidence has revealed. Experts now believe he was moved to his own master bedroom suite by two people after he died from cardiac arrest.


Retired FBI special agent Ted Gunderson, who has independently monitored the case, last night said the new evidence pointed to a “massive cover-up” by the singer’s personal physician, Dr Conrad Murray.

He said: “Did Murray try to fool people into thinking Jackson died on the way to hospital in the hope an autopsy could be avoided? If so, it didn’t work, which is why he had to confess to administering Propofol.”

Los Angeles county coroner Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran has ruled that an overdose of the hospital-strength anaesthetic, administered by intravenous drip, caused Jackson’s cardiac arrest.

Traces of anti-anxiety drug Xanax were found in the singer’s body plus high doses of powerful sedatives Lorazepam and Midazolam.

Forensic specialists also believe Jackson died hours before paramedics received the 911 emergency call that sent them to the star’s rented Holmby Hills mansion on June 25. Dr Steven Hoefflin, who is helping the Jackson family investigate the death, yesterday revealed he had learned shocking new details from the emergency crew and medical staff.

He explained: “They say he had lividity, which means his blood had already sunk to the back of his body. This indicates Michael’s heart had stopped hours earlier.”

Experts at the LA coroner’s office also believe Jackson was moved after he died, following the discovery of disruptions in the pattern of livor mortis on his body. This purplish discolouration marks where blood has settled in a lifeless body and usually takes at least five hours to become apparent.


Pathologist Dr Cyril Wecht, who is not involved in the case, said: “If someone carried the body from one room to another, the livor would be ‘broken’ where contact with the body was made. If one person held his ankles and the other held him under his arms, there would be corresponding white interruptions of livor mortis in those spots.”


SEARCH WORLD NEWS for:

A further clue suggesting a cover-up comes from photographs of Jackson’s and Dr Murray’s beds, according to former FBI agent Gunderson: “Usually, when someone is given CPR, he or she coughs up sputum, or bloody mucus and vomit, but we didn’t see any tell-tale signs on Michael’s bed or Dr Murray’s bed.

“What we do see in the photo of Dr Murray’s room is a discarded medical towel wadded up under the night table. That might have been used to collect those bodily fluids, in which case Michael’s body was definitely later moved to his own room.”

These astonishing findings appear to be confirmed by a search warrant affidavit following a raid on Dr Murray’s office. It states he administered 25mg of Propofol to Jackson at 10.40am on June 25.

During a hospital operation, a patient’s vital signs would be continuously monitored while he or she was “under”. However, records reveal Dr Murray was on his phone to three people from 11.18am to 12.05pm. The emergency call was made, too late, at exactly 12.22pm.

Dr Michael Lippe, who has never treated Jackson, said: “Giving Michael Propofol after all the other drugs would put him into a deep sleep and stop his breathing.

“If it were in a hospital setting, that wouldn’t be a problem because you can resuscitate very easily. But in a house, if there was no revival equipment, it was inevitable that Michael was going to die.”

Dr Murray’s attorney, Edward Chernoff, said: “Dr Murray simply never told investigators that he found Michael Jackson at 11am, not breathing. Much of what was in the search warrant affidavit is factual. However, unfortunately much is police theory. Dr Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson’s room to make phone calls at all.”


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/123802/Jackson-'dead-for-5-hours'-before-911-call/


Interesting post, thanks for doing the research and posting this, this makes sense
 
depends on when it was given and what story/ theory u go with


Isn't that the Truth.

Thanks everyone who responded. I haven't heard anything on the news considering the possibility that he was not awake or aware of what is going on, and I just don't see how he could have been with all those meds.

I just want to consider everything, and I already know I don't trust Murry so I don't know if I want to believe his time line or him making Michael out to be addicted propofol, or that Michael couldn't sleep... any of it, anything that comes out of Murry's mouth, I think needs to be viewed from all possibilities.
 
What I think is that he was given drugs that were supposed to kill him so he would be dead by 9.30 am and Dr murray would find him dead around that time, but I don't think he was dead, I don't know if he was conscious or not, I think he might have been, and so they had to administer the lethal dose to kill him hence all the things that went wrong and delays in calling emergency services, the plan went wrong, they orchestrated it to make MJ look like a drug addict and that he overdosed. That is why AEG took out insurance to cover overdose but not natural death


This is a good theory. This makes a lot of sense.
 
I don't believe Michael asked for propofol, I believe it was administered to him whilst he was asleep. I BELIEVE IT WAS A PREMEDITATED MURDER
 
I believe he wasn't awake. Whether he was already gone or just asleep I don't know but I don't believe he would have been awake after having having all those sedatives given to him. Some of those, depending on the dosage, are enough to knock out a whole army.

BUT because he was an insomniac he also could have been awake but he wouldn't "begging" for a drug at 10:40 in the morning. I don't care how tired he was...Michael knew his children were up, he had to go to rehearsals and it was nearing the lunch hour. When I don't sleep at night and it comes to 10am, I don't look for anything to help me sleep! I get up and say screw it and try again the next night. Michael was a workaholic and a perfectionist as he had stated. he was gearing up for a huge show. Was he awake? No I don't think he was.....he was probably already gone...:(
 
yeah, it's not like he couldn't take a nap later on in the afternoon if he had to. it's all BS. Conrad Murray needs to go down.
 
yeah, it's not like he couldn't take a nap later on in the afternoon if he had to. it's all BS. Conrad Murray needs to go down.

true true. Michael could've taken a nap at rehearsals. Nobody would say anything about it.

The tox results haven't specified what time those medications were administered to MJ - only that they were in his system. My understanding is that the times they were given is something that has been said by Murray - who could very easily, and probably is, lying about the whole thing.

I see now. So no official time of death and no official time of when the drugs were injected are known by the public. It's these small details that are so important and what people really want to know. What drugs were found in his system tells us just that. But the time of death and drugs inserted may tell us much much more.
 
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I just can't understand why would he take propofol just a few hours before rehearsals! I can't help but to think he wasn't awake/fully aware!
 
I just can't understand why would he take propofol just a few hours before rehearsals! I can't help but to think he wasn't awake/fully aware!

Propofol wears off quickly, unlike other drugs. It disappears from ones system quite fast. So I can understand.

But STILL, I can't understang why he would even use a dangerous drug that's not perscribed to sleep. That's not the Michael I know.
 
it's all hearsay. it's not Michael telling us about his need for Propofol. it's the rest of these damned enablers.

well, then, why the f**k did they not do anything then?!

god, it makes me so angry when I start thinking about it!
 
What I think is that he was given drugs that were supposed to kill him so he would be dead by 9.30 am and Dr murray would find him dead around that time, but I don't think he was dead, I don't know if he was conscious or not, I think he might have been, and so they had to administer the lethal dose to kill him hence all the things that went wrong and delays in calling emergency services, the plan went wrong, they orchestrated it to make MJ look like a drug addict and that he overdosed. That is why AEG took out insurance to cover overdose but not natural death

I agree with this.
 
BUT because he was an insomniac he also could have been awake but he wouldn't "begging" for a drug at 10:40 in the morning. I don't care how tired he was...Michael knew his children were up, he had to go to rehearsals and it was nearing the lunch hour.

And that's what I think too!! at 10:40 he would have been up no matter what. he would not have spent the day in bed. so... i believe he was dead before that time.
 
I believe he wasn't awake. Whether he was already gone or just asleep I don't know but I don't believe he would have been awake after having having all those sedatives given to him. Some of those, depending on the dosage, are enough to knock out a whole army.

BUT because he was an insomniac he also could have been awake but he wouldn't "begging" for a drug at 10:40 in the morning. I don't care how tired he was...Michael knew his children were up, he had to go to rehearsals and it was nearing the lunch hour. When I don't sleep at night and it comes to 10am, I don't look for anything to help me sleep! I get up and say screw it and try again the next night. Michael was a workaholic and a perfectionist as he had stated. he was gearing up for a huge show. Was he awake? No I don't think he was.....he was probably already gone...:(


A few people have said this, but he couldn't have already been gone before he was given the propofol because that was the cause of death, but I do agree that he could have been gone before 10:40, because that time came from Murry, Murray could have give him the medication earlier.
 
when he received it initially, he was awake and soon went into slumber, never to return to the earth in his physical form.
 
I dont think Michael needed Propofol after that ton load of sedatives Murray gave him. He just wanted him to never awake again..
 
No. He wasn't awake.

I just can't see him asking for propofol @10:40AM. That's entirely too late in the morning for him, when he hadn't see his kids yet, hadn't eaten breakfast and was due to arrive at rehearals at 2pm. Murray is full of shit. I seriously can't picture Michael lying there that LATE begging for another dose when he had a full day ahead of him. No. Michael was not awake.

I second this.
 
No Mike wasn't awake.

I believe everything in me that he was already gone around 9:30 am

Sad, but so true.

Makes no sense for him to give Mike anything after 10 am. He suppose to be up by then.

We all know that's another lie anyway.
 
What I think is that he was given drugs that were supposed to kill him so he would be dead by 9.30 am and Dr murray would find him dead around that time, but I don't think he was dead, I don't know if he was conscious or not, I think he might have been, and so they had to administer the lethal dose to kill him hence all the things that went wrong and delays in calling emergency services, the plan went wrong, they orchestrated it to make MJ look like a drug addict and that he overdosed. That is why AEG took out insurance to cover overdose but not natural death


Can someone please post a link to the insurance covering an overdose? I still have not found this, and I really want to know if this is the case. because that would indeed be a strange thing for an insurance company to do, considering Michael had admitted addiction to prescription medicine (morphine).
Knowing how the insurance companies tend to be, this is the equivalent of an insurance company giving a cancer patient insurance for dying of cancer. It just seems strange. :mello:
 
Can someone please post a link to the insurance covering an overdose? I still have not found this, and I really want to know if this is the case. because that would indeed be a strange thing for an insurance company to do, considering Michael had admitted addiction to prescription medicine (morphine).
Knowing how the insurance companies tend to be, this is the equivalent of an insurance company giving a cancer patient insurance for dying of cancer. It just seems strange. :mello:


I haven't seen the insurance policy, but lloyds insurance company said that it covered insurance for overdose which was unheard of

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AEG-Live-Insurance-Covered-Overdose-for-Michael-Jackson-115829.shtml
 
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