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why are ppl saying that david cook's version is better than mj's on youtube?

Re: AW: Re: why are ppl saying that david cook's version is better than mj's on youtube?

PatrickS77 said:
Why? A person, who is more into rock music than into pop music, couldn't care less about Michael Jackson!

And I didn't say I think it's better... I also didn't say I think it's worse! I say it's a fresh and interesting take of it and a totally different style! There is no need to compare the two! But yes, I like it!
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What?

People who are fans of michael have VERY DIVERSE tastes in music. From country lovers, to fans of heavy metal, emo, goth rock, alternative rock, jazz, r&b, etc, whatever.

He just has that universal appeal--and he covers so any genres of music. Again, not saying that you have to be a fan.

I'm talking about thinking that crappy version is better than the original--not whether someone likes "rock" music or not. It's about his arrangement and its relation to the original.

This is about interpreting a song in a way that totally does not suit the original or compliment it in any way (cover songs should either top the original or at least compliment it or meet it face to face) and therefore sounds terrible. Now--I don't know if it's just me-- but usually when people cover someone else's song people tend to compare it to the original. It's only natural (and you could see why ;) ).
 
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drsh83 said:
:mello:..i dont get it..half of them think that david cooks version i.e chris cornell's version is the original one..lmao...its times like this,i wish mj would release the new album,and just kick everyones ass...sigh...its so dissapointing,that ppl r stupid,to think that david cook is better than mj,and he kicks mj;s ass,,and such comments like,,at least he dsnt bleach himself...yadda yadda..etc/...when will ppl realise michael's genius in making music..it seems,as if..mj has just faded away with time..i really hope mj has something big planned for the future...i may sound sound selfish.but..just one last time at least..just to make ppl shut their mouths abt his talent..
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people are only saying that becuz Michael hasn't perform in awhile...

Glad David Cook did a good job with that song.. it is getting Michael great publicity.. becuz that is the song .. that defined MEGASTARDOM...
 
Anyone saying ANYONES version of "Billie Jean" is better then Michael's is either deaf or so horribly ignorant about what makes a good song and what makes a good singer that they shouldn't be taken with even the slightest margin of seriousness when it comes to their opinions on such matters.

By the way, David Cook is nothing more then a wedding singer and his version was so average that it made my eyes glaze over and nearly induced in me a state of comatose.
 
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David Cook did good,but lets not get looney. He can win Idol now,and this just speaks to MJ's legacy even more when a 25 year old track still speaks to a whole new generation of ears and the power of Billie Jean you can take it to a whole different outlook and vibe. speaks to the Genius and the Man's Greatness as a Artist IMO.
 
mistermaxxx said:
David Cook did good,but lets not get looney. He can win Idol now,and this just speaks to MJ's legacy even more when a 25 year old track still speaks to a whole new generation of ears and the power of Billie Jean you can take it to a whole different outlook and vibe. speaks to the Genius and the Man's Greatness as a Artist IMO.
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Yeah, pretty much.
 
Arabian Knight said:
I won’t be surprised at how extreme it would get for someone to be a fan for an artist and being harassed is something very common. However in some cases it gets even more extreme, for example, in some places in UK there are many soccer hooligans I have some friends who are afraid to show any support for their favorite club they are not just harassed, they are beaten, some of them almost killed, etc… So it is something normal there are many crazy people, not because of religion or culture or anything else, it is just many people are very disrespectful, crazy and mean. My point is that even there are people with such mentality you don’t need to be anywhere around them and they don’t concern you, some children at YouTube use the “F” word a lot so it makes them feel cool! Some personalities are very insecure, and I won’t waste my energy and time on those YouTubers.
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that's a magnicficent statement and so true. it's like...when they get in an mtv chatroom, they suddenly develop a lingo that makes them 'cool'. or...if they're in a neighborhood, they develop a style of speech that makes them 'cool'. and if they hear somn in the media, they think they should follow suit cus it makes them 'cool'. but take them outside of that zone, and they're nobody. and surely, if MJ comes into the room they'll go crazy for him. but also..on the flipside, those personalities, if told that smoking a blunt is cool...will smoke it.
 
L.J said:
oh yuck I just watched this version to see what everyone is talking about



and all I can say is EEEKKK!! quick poke my eyes out do something!!

*puts motown 25's version on and watches on repeat*


therapy therapy sweet therapy


:lol:
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lol....understood. as much as i liked David Cook's performance, i still had an incessant need to put on t25 and the original, about a day later.
 
Bob George said:
I wouldn't say that's exactly accurate. Many composers aren't performers. In fact, a lot of pop songwriters become songwriters because they can't perform so the retreat to behind-the-scenes.
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which is why i appreciate tpain..lol...and technology. i may hate a lot of his songs.....but, progress has afforded the songwriter new luxuries. and it turns out one of tpains songs i do like. but the point is...no longer do people have to depend on a diva, if they are a songwriter. yeah..a bit off topic, but i had to just point that out.
 
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DuranDuran said:
I Heard It Through The Grapevine was 1st recorded by Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, but theirs was an album track. I've heard lots of versions of this and like most of them. I like the Gladys Knight & The Pips version, as well as Marvin Gaye's (the most successful version), Creedence Clearwater Revival (especially when it rocks out), and the Roger Troutman version. I think Respect by Aretha Franklin is better than the original by Otis Redding. Also Stevie Wonder's "Blowin' In The Wind" is better than Bob Dylan's. So a cover can be better than an original.
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certainly, my fav version of 'grapevine' is the roger troutman version. again..a man who doesn't necessarily sing, outdoes a singer at his own compostion..at least in my view....and many others according to how it charted. again...plus one for technology...the playing field is definitely even now...which..ultimately says much for the greatness of Michael Jackson.
 
You can never replace a great singer. A singer gives life to a song. If they're good enough, they are as much of an artist as a song writer. T-Pain doesn't sing. Anyone who needs a machine to correct their key is not a singer and to be honest, the fact that something like that can sell is a disgrace to the term recording artist. Burt Bacharach needed Dionne Warwick and Dionne Warwick needed him.

Someone like Bob Dylan is different in that he doesn't have an aweful voice, he can't really sing either, but he's passable. His voice has character and he know's how to interprut his own work best.

Someone like Michael has the best of both worlds. He's the most excellent singer and the most excellent song writer.

But Michael is special.

Again, David Cook is seriously mediocre. There's a million a one guys out there just like him.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
You can never replace a great singer. A singer gives life to a song. If they're good enough, they are as much of an artist as a song writer. T-Pain doesn't sing. Anyone who needs a machine to correct their key is not a singer and to be honest, the fact that something like that can sell is a disgrace to the term recording artist. Burt Bacharach needed Dionne Warwick and Dionne Warwick needed him.

Someone like Bob Dylan is different in that he doesn't have an aweful voice, he can't really sing either, but he's passable. BAnd he gives a character to his songs somehow and know's how to interprut his own work best.

Someone like Michael has the best of both worlds. He's the most excellent singer and the most excellent song writer.

But Michael is special.

Again, David Cook is seriously mediocre. There's a million a one guys out there just like him.
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i see your point, and would agree with you if it weren't for the personalities of a lot of singers. tpain, for me, exhibits the necessary consequence of shall i say...divality. that's my new word. and..whether we like it or not..the fact that tpain is making money gets the final word. i'm sure, if tpain could find a real singer who didn't have an enormous ego..and if others like tpain could do the same..there would be no need for new technology. and, well..i am proof that it can work. cus no matter what anyone says...i like 'bartender'. lol

and there are others like me. and i would resent if someone said i have lousy taste in music. after all, i love MJ too. but i just think it's sweet justice, that big egos are rewarded with a slap in the face. there was a great singer who fronted a band called 'journey'. but because of his big ego, the band replaced him with a miracle singer who could sing just like him. now..so far, that's rare... most cases end up like tpain. again...this is taking nothing from MJ...like i said..it increases your appreciation for his many talents..and his absence of an ego.
 
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Well you know what happens to people who have over hyped covers of one of MJ's songs....

"Smooth Criminal" by Alien Ant Farm...for example.

WHere are they? LOL
 
Oh my goodness! This made me crack up!! :lol:

Honey, there is nothing at all to worry about. What he did on American Idol was good, but it wasn't THAT good! LOL.

This is the way to gauge it FO REAL!!

Put David Cook back on stage singing that version of MJ's song...

Next, have Michael himself come out by surprise singing the original version of Billie Jean while David Cook is still singing the other version.

What do you think is going to happen?

Will anyone be asking Michael to let David continue singing, or will everyone forget David is standing on the stage?

Hahahahahahahaha

You already know what the answer is...

Who's David again? :lol: :lol:
 
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vncwilliam said:
i see your point, and would agree with you if it weren't for the personalities of a lot of singers. tpain, for me, exhibits the necessary consequence of shall i say...divality. that's my new word. and..whether we like it or not..the fact that tpain is making money gets the final word. i'm sure, if tpain could find a real singer who didn't have an enormous ego..and if others like tpain could do the same..there would be no need for new technology. and, well..i am proof that it can work. cus no matter what anyone says...i like 'bartender'. lol

and there are others like me. and i would resent if someone said i have lousy taste in music. after all, i love MJ too. but i just think it's sweet justice, that big egos are rewarded with a slap in the face. there was a great singer who fronted a band called 'journey'. but because of his big ego, the band replaced him with a miracle singer who could sing just like him. now..so far, that's rare... most cases end up like tpain. again...this is taking nothing from MJ...like i said..it increases your appreciation for his many talents..and his absence of an ego.
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Don't diss Steve Perry man. That "singer" they got to replace him ain't half as good. And they were just trippin' in Journey because Steve Perry brought them commercial success and he wanted to write more songs that he thought would work, which did, but that guitarist of theirs is a major prick and wanted all the attention. You see what happened when Perry left? They're just a sorry shell of what they used to be.

I didn't say you have lousy taste. I just think it's a major insult to the art of singing when you've got people who can't sing being in the top ten on the charts for a field in which people pay to hear a beautiful voice.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Don't diss Steve Perry man. That "singer" they got to replace him ain't half as good. And they were just trippin' in Journey because Steve Perry brought them commercial success and he wanted to write more songs that he thought would work, which did, but that guitarist of theirs is a major prick and wanted all the attention. You see what happened when Perry left? They're just a sorry shell of what they used to be.

I didn't say you have lousy taste. I just think it's a major insult to the art of singing when you've got people who can't sing being in the top ten on the charts for a field in which people pay to hear a beautiful voice.
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well..music gets the last word, as far as you saying it's an insult. some people pay just to get loose in the club. and their money is equal to the voice enthusiasts. as far as perry goes...i still say...there's no place for egos. while you say journey is a shell...it's better than nothing at all. i don't care how good you are...you can't win with a big fat ego. journey still makes money by touring and, i for one do like the sound of the replacement singer. what Michael Jackson embodies is a lesson to many. leave your ego at the door. Michael has no problem, apparently with the David Cooks of the world...we might..but he doesn't. And right now, MJ's in the driver's seat. in the end...no great talent is a match for a big fat ego.
 
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I don't have a problem with David Cook. I just know what he is. And I was just commenting on the notion that his version could even be concived of as better then the original.

Steve Perry is actually a really nice guy. It sounds like your just going off of what the other bandmates say. The fault lies with both parties, to be honest. But they've also wronged Perry, leaving him in the dust when he had to make a decisian to undergo serious surgery. Instead of waiting for him to rejoin the band, they just droped him. And they've replaced that copy-cat singer they got, by the way, with some new guy. If you ask me, it's really the guitarist in that group who has the ego problem.

And I'm just saying, if people are going to pay to hear you sing, then you should be able to sing. I don't have a problem with ego as long as you have it in check. But even so, if you are truly gifted, you have a right to be proud. Like Muhammad Ali said, it ain't braggin' if you can do it.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
I don't have a problem with David Cook. I just know what he is. And I was just commenting on the notion that his version could even be concived of as better then the original.

Steve Perry is actually a really nice guy. It sounds like your just going off of what the other bandmates say. The fault lies with both parties, to be honest. But they've also wronged Perry, leaving him in the dust when he had to make a decisian to undergo serious surgery. Instead of waiting for him to rejoin the band, they just droped him. And they've replaced that copy-cat singer they got, by the way, with some new guy. If you ask me, it's really the guitarist in that group who has the ego problem.

And I'm just saying, if people are going to pay to hear you sing, then you should be able to sing. I don't have a problem with ego as long as you have it in check. But even so, if you are truly gifted, you have a right to be proud. Like Muhammad Ali said, it ain't braggin' if you can do it.
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well...MJ makes a better impression to me than Ali. and, fortunately there is an audience for every taste, besides singing. all i'm saying is...because of technology, nobody is at a disadvantage, so..if you have an ego, you better watch your back. it's not like it was years ago.
 
Yeah it is. Technology can't replace talent ever. And it shouldn't. Certain people are blessed and the value placed on those people shouldn't go down because of advancements in man-made things. God-given talent is irreplaceable. It's what you should get payed for. If manufactured talent can replace real talent, then there is no such thing as talent anymore, and thus no such thing as artists.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Yeah it is. Technology can't replace talent ever. And it shouldn't. Certain people are blessed and the value placed on those people shouldn't go down because of advancements in man-made things. God-given talent is irreplaceable. It's what you should get payed for. If manufactured talent can replace real talent, then there is no such thing as talent anymore, and thus no such thing as artists.
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ok...i think that argument is flawed, because i believe God gives talent to man to build things too. should a man that plays a natural piano be considered more than a man who plays an electronic keyboard? talent is very varied. besides...lol..this argument is kinda pointless, in that, tpain is making a lot of money. lol. as far as i'm concerned. i prefer tpain making money legitimately, legally, rather than being on the streets in a gang or somn. the bottom line is...... well....the bottom line.

and..of course, the fact that MJ is so willing to work with these 'lesser' artists hasn't stopped you from being a fan of MJ's...and because you are a fan of mJ's you just payed Akon's bills. indeed...the bottom line is the bottom line. maybe you and i agree to disagree on this. after all..it's kindof a variation on the argument on how artistic we should view things, as opposed to how commercial we should view them, like the argument over the beatles attitude toward their songs, vs. MJ's attitude toward them when the catalogue was bought. I'm just saying, in a nutshell..the great art of music is way less discriminatory than we are...except when it comes to big egos.
 
An electronic keyboard is still an instrument to be played though. It has a set of keys you have to operate using your hands, lol. So that argument doesn't really work. Pressing buttons on a machine that creates it's own beat doesn't take any talent. Arranging beats in a quality fasion does.

God gives talent to build, yes. But the person who creates a machine which produces sounds isn't a singer and they shouldn't be billed as such. T-Pain didn't create any such insturment or machine either. And whose to say T-Pain would be in a gang if he weren't in the music industry? Besides, that's no excuse for his lack of talent. Talent is based on a person's ability to produce something of better then average quality, in my view much better then average. T-Pain doesn't do that as a singer. He is about average to the average person's voice, I would gather.

Technology doesn't equate to talent and it doesn't replace talent. Saying it does is just wrong. That's like saying, if you can edit a video to make Justin Timberlake look as though he dances as well or better then Michael, then it is just as good as if he really were just as good or a better dancer then Michael.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
An electronic keyboard is still an instrument to be played though. It has a set of keys you have to operate using your hands, lol. So that argument doesn't really work. Pressing buttons on a machine that creates it's own beat doesn't take any talent. Arranging beats in a quality fasion does.

God gives talent to build, yes. But the person who creates a machine which produces sounds isn't a singer and they shouldn't be billed as such. T-Pain didn't create any such insturment or machine either. And whose to say T-Pain would be in a gang if he weren't in the music industry? Besides, that's no excuse for his lack of talent. Talent is based on a person's ability to produce something of better then average quality, in my view much better then average. T-Pain doesn't do that as a singer. He is about average to the average person's voice, I would gather.

Technology doesn't equate to talent and it doesn't replace talent. Saying it does is just wrong. That's like saying, if you can edit a video to make Justin Timberlake look as though he dances as well or better then Michael, then it is just as good as if he really were just as good or a better dancer then Michael.
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no..it's not just wrong. you sound like you are partial to singers. like every other talent is a lesser talent. and that songwriting isn't respectable if singing isn't involved. songwriting can lend itself to many talents besides singing. and some of the greatest tv show themes were written by songwriters who pressed a lot of technological buttons. the theme from Miami Vice comes to mind. it went to number 1.

anyway..lol...happily...your protest won't stop things from marching on...lol
 
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You aren't understanding what I'm saying. I thought we were talking about singers. But I respect song writing just as much as a talent. I don't think you could call T-Pain a talented song writer either though. And I did say that arranging beats and musical notes is a talent. If you press a button on a machine and it creates a beat for you, that's not talent. But if you create the beat yourself, then that's talent, presuming the beat is good. I don't care what instrument you use as long as you can come up with the arrangement yourself.

Anyway, again, I thought you were referring to technology being able to replace the actual ability to create something exceptional in terms of sining.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
You aren't understanding what I'm saying. I thought we were talking about singers. But I respect song writing just as much as a talent. I don't think you could call T-Pain a talented song writer either though. And I did say that arranging beats and musical notes is a talent. If you press a button on a machine and it creates a beat for you, that's not talent. But if you create the beat yourself, then that's talent, presuming the beat is good. I don't care what instrument you use as long as you can come up with the arrangement yourself.

Anyway, again, I thought you were referring to technology being able to replace the actual ability to create something exceptional in terms of sining.
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if a piece of technology has a pre programmed beat, and you as a songwriter knows how to use it in an original arrangement, that's talent.

what i'm trying to tell you is that tech is only here for those who can't find a reasonable singer, drummer, pianist, etc. that has no big ego. if not, then that's where the tpains of the world come from. and why your argument keeps beating on tin, is because...money talks. and tpain is making money.

and what makes Michael so rare, is that, despite his great talent, he appreciates the tpains of the world. there must be a reason for that. i have to say, if MJ had your attitude, then David Cook might not be allowed to sing Billie Jean. Kanye West might not be allowed to remix Billie Jean. Akon would not be allowed to remix wbss. i can't help but wonder why the very successful MJ can see this, and some fans don't see it. talent is talent. and we are not the ones to determine what talent is...God is.
 
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If you can take a pre-arranged beat and use it in an arrangement you yourself came up with, and it's good, then yes, that's talent. But if the entire thing comes from a machine with pre-arranged beats, then I won't call that talent.

If you can't find a reasonable singer, then you aren't looking hard enough. There are plenty of talented singers just looking for a shot. Technology should never replace talent, that's my point.

Michael is useing these people because they have something he needs, and that's the ear of the public's youth, at the moment. That'll change soon enough. I know Michael doesn't actually see a great deal of talent in most of these acts. Some of them, yes, but people like T-Pain, no. As far as I can tell, this guy has absolutely no talent. Ne-Yo has talent. Akon can't sing, but he has some talent as a song writer. Though nothing exceptional. Will.I.Am has some talent, etc... But he know's they're nothing special.

And commercial success doesn't mean you're talented.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
If you can take a pre-arranged beat and use it in an arrangement you yourself came up with, and it's good, then yes, that's talent. But if the entire thing comes from a machine with pre-arranged beats, then I won't call that talent.

If you can't find a reasonable singer, then you aren't looking hard enough. There are plenty of talented singers just looking for a shot. Technology should never replace talent, that's my point.

Michael is useing these people because they have something he needs, and that's the ear of the public's youth, at the moment. That'll change soon enough. I know Michael doesn't actually see a great deal of talent in most of these acts. Some of them, yes, but people like T-Pain, no. As far as I can tell, this guy has absolutely no talent. Ne-Yo has talent. Akon can't sing, but he has some talent as a song writer. Though nothing exceptional. Will.I.Am has some talent, etc... But he know's they're nothing special.

And commercial success doesn't mean you're talented.
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how do you know what Michael sees? the point is..he's using these people. how do you know what MJ will do in the future? and..at least you are willing to admit..that 'as far as you can see' you think tpain doesn't have talent. obviously, there may be something there that you don't see.

and yes..commercial success, in this case means you are talented.

and please....you shouldn't have to look that hard to find a singer... what you have to get over is egos. there are so many people that want the money up front without going the mileage. and they think that they are the ultimate God's gift to a project.

i guess you can keep this up with me, but what i'm saying, is already happening, so..lol...
 
How does commercial success equal talent? Some of the most talented people today don't get any exposure.

I know that Michael has really good taste, and that he never says a bad word about anybody. He isn't working with T-Pain. There's a rumor that he's working with Usher, but nothing is confirmed on that.

There are a lot of singers who don't have an oversized ego. I'm not sure why you have this notion in your head that every good singer on the planet think's they're a gift from God. They have A gift, but that doesn't mean they're ego is going to get in the way.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
How does commercial success equal talent? Some of the most talented people today don't get any exposure.

I know that Michael has really good taste, and that he never says a bad word about anybody. He isn't working with T-Pain. There's a rumor that he's working with Usher, but nothing is confirmed on that.

There are a lot of singers who don't have an oversized ego. I'm not sure why you have this notion in your head that every good singer on the planet think's they're a gift from God. They have A gift, but that doesn't mean they're ego is going to get in the way.
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actually, we have no final word on what MJ is and isn't doing as of right now. it's all rumours. and there are a lot of singers who do have the oversized ego. that's just a fact. it's the lesser number that do not. i've been in bands, i've met people who have met people who have been in bands...there of course is the history of many bands who don't last long. history is replete with egos in music. why do you think the technology was invented in the first place? commercial success does take talent...or else..there'd be no failures in music whatsoever. it does take talent to have commercial success. it's like you are saying that it takes no talent to make money but it takes talent to not make money.
 
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