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New Album Question? Can MJ trying to be to perfect sometimes be a bad thing.

BabeBeMine

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It seems like with the new album MJ wants everything to be perfect and just right. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but sometimes when you try and be to perfect your songs come off as being over produced. I thought with Invincible, the 1st 2 tracks Unbreakable and Heartbreaker were over produced and it seemed like MJ was trying to hard to be perfect.

Sometimes when you keep it simple, the flow of the song or songs is actually better and more fans feel the song. Especialy non fans. I get a lot of this from a lot of non fans who were not feelin the up tempo tracks on Invincible at all.
 
BabeBeMine said:
It seems like with the new album MJ wants everything to be perfect and just right. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but sometimes when you try and be to perfect your songs come off as being over produced. I thought with Invincible, the 1st 2 tracks Unbreakable and Heartbreaker were over produced and it seemed like MJ was trying to hard to be perfect.

Sometimes when you keep it simple, the flow of the song or songs is actually better and more fans feel the song. Especialy non fans. I get a lot of this from a lot of non fans who were not feelin the up tempo tracks on Invincible at all.
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yep well it was supposed tp released in 99 but apprently michael wasnt pleased with the final product so he wanted to change things i liked invincible but it really wasnt that great i mean the video cry was boring x
 
Youre defnitely right babebemine. Mike seems to be obsessed with being this great philosopher of music who understands the formulae for the perfect song... whereas he seems to forgot that at the heart of the music there should be a feeling of freedom and passion, rather than a formulae.... and that music is about doing what feels right.
something that scared me was when he said "I look to put music under the microscope and manipulate the character of it"
 
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praisemichael said:
yep well it was supposed tp released in 99 but apprently michael wasnt pleased with the final product so he wanted to change things i liked invincible but it really wasnt that great i mean the video cry was boring x
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What's that got to do with the album not being great?
Invincible laked promotion that's all.

Every artist does this, but MJ pushes it to another level, when others are satisfied MJ isn't. A huge part of his success is because he spends ALOT of time recording to make that perferct sound, i think he's been working like that since his early adult solo years

I can see why some may doubt though, because he can't match his previous sales numbers, one can think of it as a result of a bad album, wich absoloutly is not the case.
 
I indeed think that MJ might want it too perfect nowadays. an album produced too slow could go wrong. I understand a lot depends on this album, to state to the critics that he still is the king of pop, but taking things too slow can end up in wrong choices.
Compare it to multiple choice tests at high school..u picked first..scratch the answer..pick again..and then in the end u saw the first pick was the good one.
I mean..producing a good album shouldnt have to take so much time. thriller was produced in a couple of weeks and is best selling ever.
Producing a good album is about picking good samples and rhythms, and find harmony in the tracks together.
I personally think that too many soft songs like human nature or alike would kill a new album. It's uptempo that should be the style..wild..might be danceable like ghost and wanna be starting something but might also be a bit dark like dirty diana and give in to me were.
Do I have faith in the new album? yes..I do..but I hope it wont be a 10 yrs product or something. I doubt that will be the case though..delaying it too long wont do his reputation well with the critics.
He has my support and faith in a good result, and he has me waiting for a long time already.
 
what does a crappy video have to do with the quality of the album that the soundtrack of the video came from ?? :lol: :hysterical: that was madd funny

Mike is a perfectionist, that is who he is. We ain't gonna change it so accept it :D
 
you people need to chill i posted an opinion dont shout me down lol. "I thought with Invincible, the 1st 2 tracks Unbreakable and Heartbreaker were over produced and it seemed like MJ was trying to hard to be perfect." Babebemine is right and thats what i'm sayin Michael tried to hard and i mean come on how many people sit there and go wow invincible was one of his best albums nearly all of the fans i've talked to have said invincible was ok not great compare it to his earlier work. "what does a crappy video have to do with the quality of the album that the soundtrack of the video came from ??" MJJChichi it matters when you been out the spotlight of music for 7 years and you got major critics to impress if you over do something like what happened on invincible then it won't come off good will it?,

Every aspect is important when an album comes out video's songs because if it's "overdone" not many people will buy it.

Don't laugh at my opinion i'm entitled to it!!!!
 
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you missed my point or i misunderstood yours. I am not laughing at your opinion.

what I am saying is, the content of the CD has nothing to do with how un-impressive the Cry video was. The idea that the two are linked was funny to me. My most humble apology for seeing some humor in something. If you feel i laughed at your opinion, I am sorry for that as well.

If you are speaking about the entire Invincible project, as a whole, tracks, promotion, videos ... then that is a different story.

**picks up his toys and goes to sit in the corner and pout**
:(
 
BabeBeMine said:
It seems like with the new album MJ wants everything to be perfect and just right. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but sometimes when you try and be to perfect your songs come off as being over produced. I thought with Invincible, the 1st 2 tracks Unbreakable and Heartbreaker were over produced and it seemed like MJ was trying to hard to be perfect.

Sometimes when you keep it simple, the flow of the song or songs is actually better and more fans feel the song. Especialy non fans. I get a lot of this from a lot of non fans who were not feelin the up tempo tracks on Invincible at all.
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I agree.
But then again, Michael's ALWAYS operated like this. Starting with Bad, MJ has been obsessed with making the 'perfect' album. Failing to realize that the perfect album doesn't exist.
He probably would've taken 3-4 years to make Off The Wall & Thriller, if he didn't have Quincy Jones around to kick him in the butt to make sure things got finished on time. Now he doesn't have that. So he's free to take as many YEARS (literally) as he wants to complete an album. Which sucks if you're a fan. I personally feel that 1 year is more than enough time to finish a project. One year to work with Will.I.Am, Akon, Timbaland, Polow Da Don, Pharrell, Kanye West, RedOne, WHOEVER is enough.
Most of MJ's collaborations with guest producers/artist's never make the final cut anyway, so what's the point?
I'd be real shocked if we got a new album this year. I'm thinkin' 2009-2010 at this point.


Hollaback.
 
Well all I know is there is more to it then just creating a song. Maybe he is done with them. Now he might just be discussing promotion/videos for it. I also understand your point of view. Creating a good song doesn't necessarily mean spending a long time constructing it. Well....it all depends, sometimes you're feeling it and sometimes you're not, and a lot of times you just need to take a break from it all. Am sure Michael wants to get away from the studio sometimes cause he's not feeling it. For example when he went shopping with the nanny and she got a parking ticket lol.
 
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*tackles Chichi, Foxy and PraiseMichael just like a Tigger does :yes: *
*Toys go flying all over the forum like a scavenger hunt, never to be found again*



Then bounces off to another part of the forum while you guys look around not knowing what hit you!
 
Michael's music has always sounded top notch. The highest in music production. So I'm not going to complain or say he needs to change anything. What the hell do I know anyway, to make that kind of suggestion?

Youre defnitely right babebemine. Mike seems to be obsessed with being this great philosopher of music
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He's a musical genius. That's better then a musical theorist. He understands music better then anyone here ever will.
 
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Sometimes when a artist comes up with a song from the top of there head and just uses exactly what he had in his thoughts, it's better if he takes that same exact song and uses it for his album, instead of over a couple of months tryng to perfect it over and over. Trying to hard to perfect can sometime make the song or songs worse.
 
Michael's trouble in making music has always been getting musicians, sound engineers, mixers, etc... to create what it is he hears in his head. That's why he takes so long, that's why he works so hard, because he's trying to do precisley what you said, take a song he hears off the top of his head and make it something real, something tangible. Getting that sound in to reality, especially when you don't play instruments or read or write music, at least not when actually creating, can be, I imagine, an extremely difficult process. That's what takes so long with Michael. He's even said that songs certain songs he released weren't what he heard exactly in his mind, but he had to settle because of pressure from the label or whatever. He takes his time because he want's it to be as it is in his head.
 
BabeBeMine said:
Sometimes when you keep it simple, the flow of the song or songs is actually better and more fans feel the song. Especialy non fans. I get a lot of this from a lot of non fans who were not feelin the up tempo tracks on Invincible at all.
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yes i think michael want too much perfection, thriller was more crude. same for his concerts bad tour had more energy although he was more simple than history who is more perfect but not really the best
 
i'll probably be on repeat for life about this phantom thought that Invincible didn't do well, because it did well. but i don't mind.

from the beginning MJ was a perfectionist.

i can't get Invincible out of my head...

i'm obsessed with the album.

maybe these questions the op is asking are a symptom of the long wait..maybe not..

but i wouldn't have it any other way...MJ is a genius.


and i watched a painter paint a painting once..and he said, that if he painted it again, it wouldn't be the exact same painting. sometimes, thought and action will differ.. that's just the way it is..

and the cry video has nothing to do with the love and care MJ put in the brilliant song, 'cry'.


timbaland says he always has to get his music out on time, because of pressure from his label. so, he puts it out real quick. now he has two songs that sound the same..

so...if people want quickness, there are a variety of artists to choose from..lol
 
Well, the problem here is that if he's using "producers of the month" is that if he takes too long, the material might sound dated when it finally comes out. A lot of today's music have a short shelf life. Or it might sound like a lot of other material the producer is doing. I personally think he should use people who are more experimental, rather than someone who is popular at the moment. I feel the idea is that the people he's using now are more likely to get him radio play or to get a younger audience who might see him as an "oldies" act. Like Carlos Santana did with his Supernatural album. Or Aretha Franklin using Jermaine Dupri. Also the people used on Thriller 25.
 
Being a perfectionist doesn't bother me. Taking six years between albums doesn't bother me, either. But when you're working on something, and you keep your fans in the dark (to the point where they don't have any idea if you're actually still working on the album), it's really troubling to me.

Every single artist out there except Michael puts out updates on new albums. And don't say that Michael is different from any other artist - there are other artists who are just as talented as Michael Jackson, and they keep their fans in the loop. I guess it just bothers me that Michael feels that he can't trust his fans by updating them.
 
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^^^IMO there are NO other artists just as talented as Michael Jackson. If there were, then there would be more "Michael Jackson's"
 
shipoffools said:
Being a perfectionist doesn't bother me. Taking six years between albums doesn't bother me, either. But when you're working on something, and you keep your fans in the dark (to the point where they don't have any idea if you're actually still working on the album), it's really troubling to me.

Every single artist out there except Michael puts out updates on new albums. And don't say that Michael is different from any other artist - there are other artists who are just as talented as Michael Jackson, and they keep their fans in the loop. I guess it just bothers me that Michael feels that he can't trust his fans by updating them.
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I don't think it is about not trusting his fans...remember the last two albums he released and what happened on release day? Number Ones, Neverland got raided....and to be honest I forget the other one. But point being, there may be good reason for keeping things quiet. It wouldn't make sense for the reason being trust or distrust in the fans.
 
Ape said:
I don't think it is about not trusting his fans...remember the last two albums he released and what happened on release day? Number Ones, Neverland got raided....and to be honest I forget the other one. But point being, there may be good reason for keeping things quiet. It wouldn't make sense for the reason being trust or distrust in the fans.
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Ape. :flowers:

The idea that this ^^has to be said over and over is kinda just.... :banghead:

I understand being excited and anxious about the album/new music/whatever BUT not at the expense of the thing you're waiting for.

Why should he take unecessary risks if he really doesn't have to? I don't think this is a matter of Michael not trusting fans as much as it seems to be a matter of fans not trusting Michael. All signs point to him working on something and he, himself, has said he was working. I'm not sure what else is critical for us to know until he's done and ready to spring it on us. All the details (label, producer, writers, etcetera etcetera) can easily come afterwards as it could before...kinda like watching a special effects movie. Kinda sucks to see and hear how all the effects are done BEFORE you get to see the magic unfold. You miss the whole "how'd they do that" moment cuz you've seen and heard all the Hows and Whys beforehand...at least for me.

I hope things stay as tight and quiet and protected as possible. My opinion is that the odds are in his favor this way altho I'm sure others will disagree. :flowers:

Oh, the topic: I agree sometimes being a perfectionist can be a bad thing as it paralyzes you from finishing something, however, sometimes it's worth all the time spent. You just never know? *shrugs*
 
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With Invincible tha whole Sony stuff came out and with T25 the Neverland auction, not a second before not a second after, and media knew it was just a private business going on since october 2007.

So MJ is right to just stay quite.

BTW I think he needs seriously to be more genuine and direct while producing an album and also when he is on the stage... everything is so programmed into details that it loses the magic, the suol of music and entertaiment.
I would like to hear an album with real instruments and see an unplugghed show more than the result of an obsessive research of perfection. Just my opinion.
 
As many people already said, Mike takes too long to make an album, which can actually ruin the sound. To me, Invinicible was too contrived and so it didn't really work for me because everything sounded to 'polished'. That's not a very good description, but I would have prefered it with fewer layers and to have the sound broken down a bit more. there was too much noise in the background as Mike and the other engineers just added more and more sound to the mix. I think clever use of multiple layers is great, and it's something Mike is well known for in the industry, but Vince took it over the edge.

Also, as somebody else said, if Mike takes too long to release an album using all the current talent, the album will very quickly date because their 15 minutes will be over and the beats will have been used to death. Timberland and Akon are two good examples. They have been everywhere for the last few years and are getting boring now. Mike should not use them on the next album. He should use somebody fresh or somebody with a lower profile but a good reputation such as John Legend.
Madonna has the right formula - create a record with the latest talent and release it quickly before people get bored. A couple of years later do the same thing to appear modern and relevant. That's all she does and gets and she gets major props for it. The press ignore the fact she is just a puppet doing what she's told by the people she brings onto her albums. She has no credibility IMO.
 
Anyway said:
With Invincible tha whole Sony stuff came out and with T25 the Neverland auction, not a second before not a second after, and media knew it was just a private business going on since october 2007.
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not to mention getting arrested the day before Number Ones came out in 2003.
 
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