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Will.I.Am confirmed in that recent interview in Los Angeles that he is also working on NEW material!

yeah well we're talking about Will I Am producing and working with MJ...which is exactly what Q and Teddy did.
 
J5master said:
yeah well we're talking about Will I Am producing and working with MJ...which is exactly what Q and Teddy did.
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What do a producer exactly? Someone know all the passage of a producer? He wrotes also lyrics in songs?

PS: anyway I must do my compliments to you, because I like when we can talks about our point of view, without offend nobody.. I like discute with polite and educate way... I respect your point of you of course...)
 
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no they don't write the song but they produce the song...they work with the artist to make the song technically better and stuff right?

The song writer WRITES the lyrics and stuff...
 
J5master said:
no they don't write the song but they produce the song...they work with the artist to make the song technically better and stuff right?

The song writer WRITES the lyrics and stuff...
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WOW... this is good! Are you sure so? They only adjust technically? Dont change melody and notes or lyrics?
Oh well... so is good to heard.. so we could read in new songs only "written and composed by Michael j."? I really hope this! :wub::eek::D

In my country is late... I must to go for now.. see you soon!!
 
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well they do change things...it's like a musical adviser...that's how i always saw it
 
I am a really huge MJ fan but in my opinion MJ should not have used those people to re-create those songs. I heard the music and I was a bit disappointed. I hope the new album does not sound like that. Thriller and Billie Jean ('80s) was a huge success; he should have just left it the way it was so people will remember how great it was. He should create new songs; not re-create something that he has already done. History should be just that; HISTORY.
 
I really don't think T25 is any indication of what the new album will sound like at all. They mixed classic tracks; the album will be all new. ;)
 
A producer doesnt not change melody or music but does come up with beats and can pick what songs are on the album but MJ being the Executive Producer will have final say anyway. Also a producer can pay for the recording sessions in that he will get a profit of the album when released.

From wiki:
In the music industry, a record producer (or music producer) has many roles, among them controlling the recording sessions, coaching and guiding the musicians, organizing and scheduling production budget and resources, and supervising the recording, mixing and mastering processes. This has been a major function of producers since the inception of sound recording, but in the later half of the 20th century producers also took on a wider entrepreneurial role. These activities comprise record production.
The music producer could be compared to the film director in that the producer's job is to create, shape and mold a piece of music in accordance with their vision for the album.
 
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Dangerous Incorporated said:
A producer doesnt not change melody or music but does come up with beats and can pick what songs are on the album but MJ being the Executive Producer will have final say anyway. Also a producer can pay for the recording sessions in that he will get a profit of the album when released.

From wiki:
In the music industry, a record producer (or music producer) has many roles, among them controlling the recording sessions, coaching and guiding the musicians, organizing and scheduling production budget and resources, and supervising the recording, mixing and mastering processes. This has been a major function of producers since the inception of sound recording, but in the later half of the 20th century producers also took on a wider entrepreneurial role. These activities comprise record production.
The music producer could be compared to the film director in that the producer's job is to create, shape and mold a piece of music in accordance with their vision for the album.
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Thank you for posting this. :)
 
fanofthethriller said:
I am a really huge MJ fan but in my opinion MJ should not have used those people to re-create those songs. I heard the music and I was a bit disappointed. I hope the new album does not sound like that. Thriller and Billie Jean ('80s) was a huge success; he should have just left it the way it was so people will remember how great it was. He should create new songs; not re-create something that he has already done. History should be just that; HISTORY.
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we here are huge MJ fans as well... thinking more positive would help!;)
 
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Dangerous Incorporated said:
A producer doesnt not change melody or music but does come up with beats
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actually, the majority of pop producers nowadays (well, since the 90's) have had more of a composition/song-writing role as well. will.i.am is one of those cats and so were Teddy Riley, Jerkins, Dr. Freeze, Jam & Lewis etc etc. Quincy didn't do that.
 
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fanofthethriller said:
I am a really huge MJ fan but in my opinion MJ should not have used those people to re-create those songs. I heard the music and I was a bit disappointed. I hope the new album does not sound like that. Thriller and Billie Jean ('80s) was a huge success; he should have just left it the way it was so people will remember how great it was. He should create new songs; not re-create something that he has already done. History should be just that; HISTORY.
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Well the original songs are still in tact On T-25 these are just added
bonus tracksand a whole NEW generation is clamouring for that album
now beciase of those songs - but when they buy T-25 they will also
get to hear the originals in all there Glory and see why MJ is called the
master and KOP - they too will be hooked. Mj was very wise - and in his
last statement he said He want to keep Thriller alive for each generation
this was the best way to do it .. plus it a ways for him to ease back in
public eye with the Anniversary of Thriller .. that is something everyone
can get behind and celebrate -

After It is the GREATEST Selling album of all TIME
A GREAT acheivement
 
arXter said:
actually, the majority of pop producers nowadays (well, since the 90's) have had more of a composition/song-writing role as well. will.i.am is one of those cats and so were Teddy Riley, Jerkins, Dr. Freeze, Jam & Lewis etc etc. Quincy didn't do that.
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Actually, they were credited for the beats they came up with which is what I said prior.
 
I disagree Qbee. MJ did not have to re-create Thriller to keep Thriller alive. A classic song will be a classic song for life. The Beatles for instance had classic songs and they did not re-create the same hits. The Beatles songs are still alive today and different generations still listen to their music. I just think people like Akon, Fergie and William do not do any justice for someone who is as talented as MJ. If I was MJ I would not be working with those people on a new album. It is almost like saying The Beatles are working with Eminem; it just does not work.
 
well you'll never hear a beatles song now climb up the pop charts like MJ's stuff is doing. Its a different kind of 'appeal'. Youngins still listen to old stuff but probably don't have the same appreciation/connection with it like new stuff...and with new artists contributing to this music, MJ's making that connection happen.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
Actually, they were credited for the beats they came up with which is what I said prior.
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not really - you said they don't change melodies etc. Teddy Riley, Dr. Freeze, Jerkins, Andre Harris, Lewis&Jam and Dallas Austin were also credited for song-writing and composition on nearly every song they made the beat for - and that's how these guys usually operate with other artists.

point is, they do tend to have a role as composers or can tweak around with an already composed song. same as how mixers and engineers nowadays can have a minor role as producers or vice versa. there's no clear definition for what a record producer does.
 
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arXter said:
not really - you said they don't change melodies etc. Teddy Riley, Dr. Freeze, Jerkins, Andre Harris, Lewis&Jam and Dallas Austin were also credited for song-writing and composition on nearly every song they made the beat for - and that's how these guys usually operate with other artists.
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Thats the same thing. They were credited because of the rhythm they came up with along with the other artists who wrote lyrics or melodies.
arXter said:
point is, they do tend to have a role as composers or can tweak around with an already composed song. same as how mixers and engineers nowadays can have a minor role as producers or vice versa. there's no clear definition for what a record producer does.
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They're not a composer for just coming up with a drum track. And they cant touch anything on the track without MJs approval. Well except Bill Bottrell who laid down the track of Come Together without MJs permission but when he heard it he liked it.

And I gave a definition of what a producer does above.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
Thats the same thing. They were credited because of the rhythm they came up with along with the other artists who wrote lyrics or melodies.



They're not a composer for just coming up with a drum track. And they cant touch anything on the track without MJs approval. Well except Bill Bottrell who laid down the track of Come Together without MJs permission but when he heard it he liked it.

And I gave a definition of what a producer does above.
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no not just because of the rhythm (!). Teddy Riley in fact wrote the whole of Remember The Time and presented it to MJ. Dr. Freeze wrote Break Of Dawn and Jerkins and his brother for You Rock My World. Andre Harris is a great nu-soul producer who solely composes many of Floetry's amazing songs - that includes Butterflies and its dreamy Rhodes piano chords. then you got co-composition with tracks Michael wrote. etc etc etc

those producers are professional musicians as well as song-writers and arrangers. they're not credited for simply coming up with a drum track - that's silly and that's NOT what a producer does. and if will.i.am makes it to the new album, then be sure he would have wrote a few songs here and there like he did with John Legend - won a Grammy for his song-writing skills.

having to quote wikipedia for what a producer does is working against you here mate - it's not as black and white as you seem to portray it.
 
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arXter said:
no not just because of the rhythm (!). Teddy Riley in fact wrote the whole of Remember The Time and presented it to MJ. Dr. Freeze wrote Break Of Dawn and Jerkins and his brother for You Rock My World. Andre Harris is a great nu-soul producer who solely composes many of Floetry's amazing songs - that includes Butterflies and its dreamy Rhodes piano chords. then you got co-composition with tracks Michael wrote. etc etc etc

those producers are professional musicians as well as song-writers and arrangers. they're not credited for simply coming up with a drum track - that's silly and that's NOT what a producer does. and if will.i.am makes it to the new album, then be sure he would have wrote a few songs here and there like he did with John Legend - won a Grammy for his song-writing skills.

having to quote wikipedia for what a producer does is working against you here mate - it's not as black and white as you seem to portray it.
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Yes you're right that those artits are musicians as well as producers. But generally a producer is not a writer or composer and nothing on MJs album will be changed because of a writer unless the Executive Producer MJ says so. A producer is like a director of an album and not all directors are actors!

BTW Im not basing my facts on wiki. Thats was just to help clarify a bit more what a producer does to someone. Im not claiming that producing is as cut and dry as someone who comes up with beats. Thats just silly :rolleyes: and is putting words in my mouth.:p
 
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Dangerous Incorporated said:
Yes you're right that those artits are musicians as well as producers. But generally a producer is not a writer or composer and nothing on MJs album will be changed because of a writer unless the Executive Producer MJ says so. A producer is like a director of an album and not all directors are actors!
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yes, generally in these times they are. i just told you how many tracks all those producers wrote, mate! and that's just for Michael Jackson.

that was my initial post: "actually, the majority of pop producers nowadays (well, since the 90's) have had more of a composition/song-writing role as well."

and they won Grammys for it too - so it's no sideline job either.

BTW Im not basing my facts on wiki. Thats was just to help clarify a bit more what a producer does to someone. Im not claiming that producing is as cut and dry as someone who comes up with beats. Thats just silly :rolleyes: and is putting words in my mouth.:p
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i didn't mean to put words in your mouth but you said "They're not a composer for just coming up with a drum track" which gave me the impression you thought they had a relatively minor role.
 
My understanding is that you can get a song writing credit for writing a pretty small (or large) amount of lyric, music or beat. If you write something (anything) in a song, you should get a song writing credit for it. Quite often though, a producer will present a beat or piece of music to the artist and the artist will write or contribute to the lyrics and music of that track.
 
marnifrances said:
My understanding is that you can get a song writing credit for writing a pretty small (or large) amount of lyric, music or beat. If you write something (anything) in a song, you should get a song writing credit for it. Quite often though, a producer will present a beat or piece of music to the artist and the artist will write or contribute to the lyrics and music of that track.
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Thats my point. Generally this is how it is but the previous poster wanted to note all the exceptions instead! :lol:
 
Well, writing a drum beat or piece of music however big or small is still composition and song writing. Look at the Neptune's work or even Timbaland's on Justin Timberlake's albums- a lot of them were beats presented to JT, for which JT wrote lyrics to. The producer submits an idea or beat or theme, and the artist develops the song around that. Or they work together to develop the song.
 
sorry but i'm sticking to my word that the majority of the mainstream urban producers are involved in the actual composition and sometimes even lyrical writing of the songs. if you don't trust the credits or you think that they got such credits for merely contributing a rhythmic idea then look deeper:

again, and taking MJ as a small example, look back at all of his producers post-Bad era! among them, Teddy's Remember The Time and Harris' Butterflies were both fully composed by them (Teddy wrote the lyrics too) and then presented to the artist - and those guys are no exception because many producers (and i follow production more than anything in a song) are the same way.

my point is to try and get this idea of "beat-makers only" out of the way because the majority of such producers are much more than that. this includes will.i.am. hence why i say the term "producer" is not as black and white to define.

The producer submits an idea or beat or theme, and the artist develops the song around that. Or they work together to develop the song.
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... of the MANY possibilities of how a song comes about! e.g. that was true of Jam and Lewis for Tabloid Junkie but on the other hand, Jerkins bros presented MJ with You Rock My World as a whole demo'd song for which he virtually collaborated with them to make.

(by the way, Pharrell of the Neptunes has a lot of songwriting credits - always coupled with a tune he made the beat for - probably the reason why his beat-maker sidekick, Chad, hasn't done so well by himself).

since the late 80s, writing merged into the producers' toolkit and since the beginning of this millennium we have seen these producers successfully turn into producer-artists (Kanye, will.i.am, Timbaland etc.) - and even earlier for hip-hop. there's such a drift occurring from the "traditional" crafts that you can't define them properly anymore.
 
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they're involved in songwriting but they don't HAVE to be. Teddy presenting MJ with Remember the Time and MJ liked it and that's why it's on the album. It's like any other songwriter presenting a song to him except this one happened to be his producer.
 
^ sure they don't have to be, but you'll find the majority of them are.
 
arXter said:
^ sure they don't have to be, but you'll find the majority of them are.
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Thats where I disagree. You're only talking about some of the more popular albums as of late where the majority of producers in the industry are not musicians or writers. Classical albums, jazz albums, country albums, alot of those producers are not musicians or writers and even alot of producers on pop albums these days arent musicians wither but come up with sounds via computer and desks and then are still credited for writing but if you gave them are real instrument they wouldnt know what to do. They're more like DJ's coming with sounds. Like I said before producers are like directors and not all directors are actors.
 
^ well apparently Teddy wrote it with MJ and his nurse-crush in mind

Dangerous Incorporated said:
Thats where I disagree. You're only talking about some of the more popular albums as of late where the majority of producers in the industry are not musicians or writers. Classical albums, jazz albums, country albums, alot of those producers are not musicians or writers and even alot of producers on pop albums these days arent musicians wither but come up with sounds via computer and desks and then are still credited for writing but if you gave them are real instrument they wouldnt know what to do. They're more like DJ's coming with sounds. Like I said before producers are like directors and not all directors are actors.
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i don't know why you're going off on other genres when i specifically pointed out several posts ago we're talking about mainstream urban (pop) producers. certainly where Michael Jackson is concered (and that's our topic here), all his modern producers have had and will continue to have a role in songwriting /composition. i don't understand why you're defending against this when the facts are right in front of you! are you telling me those names and MJ songs i listed are falsely credited to their original songwriters who, god-forbid, just happen to also be beat-makers? lol

... or are they some sort of an "exception"?! if so then you give me names of those modern, prominent pop producers i'm talking about where they have not had a songwriting role. otherwise i'll assume you don't know what you're on about. this is something i'm very interested in and followed for many years now through every medium possible. what a bloody waste of time dragging and talking about something so obvious LOL

"producers are like directors and not all directors are actors" - that's a very limited analogy for 21st century pop producers. that could very well be true for Quincy et al (although even then, the likes of Bill Withers and Stevie Wonder and Prince defied such analogy), but not this era. and i stated my facts and figures for why i think that is - now it's your turn; so please, start coming up with counter-examples (since you're ignoring mine or calling them """exceptions""" LOL) and leave wiki-knowledge to rest for a bit otherwise we'll end up even closer to Nowhere.

and by the way, being a fully fledged instrumentalist or not doesn't affect your position as a songwriter - look at Mike! i don't know why you're bashing guys who use computers and "desks" and so blatantly generalising the whole of the urban/pop producers like all they do is tap on a computer and generate a whole tune LOL believe it or not, classical composers and jazz producers also use sample libraries on computers to come up with ideas nowadays.

if there's anything to take out of this is that, once again, there's no clear-cut definition for what a producer's role, in modern pop, entails.
 
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I just hope Michael writes the majority of music, as he said he was doing. He's one of the best song writers in the world, frankly, I don't think any one is better, and certainly not Will.I.Am or any of those sample happy jokers.
 
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