"750 million" Why don't people believe this figure

BONGANI

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
950
Points
0
Location
SOUTH AFRICA
I don't undertand why people including some fans don't believe the 750 million copies. Do ya'l think its possible to misrepresent sales records? Aren't there any organisations that keep up with album sales and make official records of them.
To be honest 750 million is an ubelievable number but we're talking about an ubelievable artist. but sadly thats the only way I can argue against claims from my friends that 750 mill is impossible. Can someone explain how this number came about, I want to explain it with facts and numbers next time someone says its not true.
 
I don't undertand why people including some fans don't believe the 750 million copies. Do ya'l think its possible to misrepresent sales records? Aren't there any organisations that keep up with album sales and make official records of them.
To be honest 750 million is an ubelievable number but we're talking about an ubelievable artist. but sadly thats the only way I can argue against claims from my friends that 750 mill is impossible. Can someone explain how this number came about, I want to explain it with facts and numbers next time someone says its not true.
personally and spontaneously I'd say cuz it's an unbelievable high number of sales and that's why.
To back it up you'd need to have a deeper or more detailed look in how they did/do their statistics. Don't know if all their data are available like this for proving this or that and then again... well read my siggy, that's my opinion. lol
 
Last edited:
It's unclear what exactly was included, sales-wise, when calculating the "750 million units" figure. However, if that total includes all album, record, video, download, ringtone, and merchandise sales from the 40 years of Michael's career, then I can certainly believe that number.

The so-called "official records" published by the recording industry are highly questionable in and of themselves, even more-so since it costs money to have albums and singles formally recertified and audited, and it is up to the record label(s) to pay to have this done. That's why none of Michael's albums have been recertified in the U.S. since 2005, though I have a feeling they will again be certified either late this year or by spring of next year, after the Thriller 25 run has come to an end.

Speaking of the RIAA and questionable statistics, they claim that Thriller sold 20 million copies in less than two years after its release, but then claim that it only sold a measly 1 million copies in six years between 1984 and 1990!! I can't fathom how that's even possible considering Thriller and Michael were EVERYWHERE throughout the 1980s and he put on sell-out tours and everything. I posted the message below some time ago in another thread regarding RIAA sales, which further highlights the issue:

Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album was last audited and certified by the RIAA (27x) on 04/25/2005.

The Eagles' "Their Greatest Hits: 1971-1975" album was last audited and certified by the RIAA (29x) on 01/30/2006.

Thus, none of the Thriller album sales since April 2005 have been accounted for. These are just estimates, but based on some Soundscan figures from that point onwards, Thriller (including Thriller 2001 SE) has sold at least 315,000 in the U.S. and may have sold more like 400-500,000. That, combined with the total sales of Thriller 25, means that it's already quickly approaching (or perhaps even past) one million copies of Thriller sold since the last certification. If Sony/Epic waits until next spring to have Thriller reaudited by the RIAA, and if Thriller 25 continues to sell well like it has been, I imagine Thriller will probably be recertified for 29-30x next year.

There is one thing that does seem really mind-boggling to me. Eagles' Greatest Hits came out on vinyl in 1976 and on CD in 1990. 14 years after its release (on 08/21/1990), the album was certified 12x platinum for selling 12 million copies in the United States. More than 3 years later on 12/14/1993, it had sold an additional 2 million copies and was up to 14x platinum. Now, according to RIAA certifications, this then 17-year-old Eagles album miraculously sold 8 million more copies in the United States between 12/14/1993 and 06/05/1995 raising its platinum status from 14x to 22x--in less than 18 months time.

Meanwhile, Thriller went 20x platinum less than 2 years after its release, but then according to the RIAA certifications sales of Thriller completely died and the album only sold 1 million more copies from 10/30/1984 to 05/24/1990; despite Michael's record-breaking tour and all of the other events and buzz that continued to surround Thriller throughout the 80s. So, Eagles' Greatest Hits sold 8 million more copies in 18 months some 17 years after it came out, while Thriller apparently only sold 1 million more copies in nearly 6 years even though it was still a fresh album. I just find that amazing...
 
lol who cares if they question it IMO. ITs been said numerous times, and mj has won countless awards, people dont got thru all tha trouble 4 no reason lol they just hatin
 
It's unclear what exactly was included, sales-wise, when calculating the "750 million units" figure. However, if that total includes all album, record, video, download, ringtone, and merchandise sales from the 40 years of Michael's career, then I can certainly believe that number.

The so-called "official records" published by the recording industry are highly questionable in and of themselves, even more-so since it costs money to have albums and singles formally recertified and audited, and it is up to the record label(s) to pay to have this done. That's why none of Michael's albums have been recertified in the U.S. since 2005, though I have a feeling they will again be certified either late this year or by spring of next year, after the Thriller 25 run has come to an end.

Speaking of the RIAA and questionable statistics, they claim that Thriller sold 20 million copies in less than two years after its release, but then claim that it only sold a measly 1 million copies in six years between 1984 and 1990!! I can't fathom how that's even possible considering Thriller and Michael were EVERYWHERE throughout the 1980s and he put on sell-out tours and everything. I posted the message below some time ago in another thread regarding RIAA sales, which further highlights the issue:
That is quite a revelation there, TSCM. WoW. No wonder MJ called them sharks and sharlatans. Looks like somebody did not want MJ to be the biggest seller in America. They couldn't revive elvis so the brought int the Eagles. I have not even heard of them until I came to an MJ board.
 
Its also hard for people who stuck with the sales figures only within the USA, with all due respect, I believe the benchmark should not be always taken from the USA, the rest of the world is much bigger especially Europe so sales count must be measured globally for a global artist such as MJ.
 
I totally think 750 Million is a reasonable figure. We are talking about all record, casette, cd, digital online, vhs, dvd sales in Michael Jackson's entire career. That figure is not just for albums but also includes video, single, and online sales. This figure represents every single release format possible. With that said... that figure is very reasonable and would have no problem being backed up.
 
i think ppl have more of an issue with the 104 figure. i havnt heard ppl go on about the 750 which isnt over the top as it states units and not just records. that includes everything from single sales to videos etc.its not just albums.until there real recertifactions done for albums such as bad that are missing something like 14 years of sales then we will never know the true figures. why mj isnt asking for this to be done is beyone me. because if it works the way im presuming it means mj hasn been paid for any sale of bad since around 94 ontop of the other albums that havnt been counted in years
 
Last edited:
I'm not willing to take any figure given for Michael's worldwide sales for fact, because it's impossible to get an accurate figure on worldwide record sales. Especially in Michael's case where he's released solo albums as early as 1971. It just can't be done. And you know what? I don't care. Record sales aren't the reason I love Michael. It's the music on those records that I love. Some of the biggest selling albums of all-time are also some of the worst sounding records of all time, and some of the greatest records ever made sold dismally. So IMO, record sales prove nothing.
 
AW: Re: "750 million" Why don't people believe this figure

Speaking of the RIAA and questionable statistics, they claim that Thriller sold 20 million copies in less than two years after its release, but then claim that it only sold a measly 1 million copies in six years between 1984 and 1990!! I can't fathom how that's even possible considering Thriller and Michael were EVERYWHERE throughout the 1980s and he put on sell-out tours and everything. I posted the message below some time ago in another thread regarding RIAA sales, which further highlights the issue:
Well, they didn't claim it "sold", they claim it "shipped"... and obviously, there is a copy of Thriller in every single record store in the US! So maybe that is the reason for the large shipment number early on! And in the past years that stock has been sold and thus they didn't ship that many copies anymore... since it already got shipped to record stores years ago! That could be one epxlanation! Also if a lot of people buy an album early on then probably not that many will buy it in following years!

But on the same token, it's also strange that the Eagles, have shipped that many millions in the past 15 years or so! There could also be a case of it being grossly overstocked... it would be interesting to know the actual sales numbers!

As for the worldwide sales, there is not one independent company that audits worldwide sales... so it's up to record companies and managements to come up with sales figures... and nobody really ever knows whether they are true and what they include!

And yes 750 mio sounds incredible unbelieveable!
 
Last edited:
It's unclear what exactly was included, sales-wise, when calculating the "750 million units" figure. However, if that total includes all album, record, video, download, ringtone, and merchandise sales from the 40 years of Michael's career, then I can certainly believe that number.

The so-called "official records" published by the recording industry are highly questionable in and of themselves, even more-so since it costs money to have albums and singles formally recertified and audited, and it is up to the record label(s) to pay to have this done. That's why none of Michael's albums have been recertified in the U.S. since 2005, though I have a feeling they will again be certified either late this year or by spring of next year, after the Thriller 25 run has come to an end.

Speaking of the RIAA and questionable statistics, they claim that Thriller sold 20 million copies in less than two years after its release, but then claim that it only sold a measly 1 million copies in six years between 1984 and 1990!! I can't fathom how that's even possible considering Thriller and Michael were EVERYWHERE throughout the 1980s and he put on sell-out tours and everything. I posted the message below some time ago in another thread regarding RIAA sales, which further highlights the issue:


You see after MJ bought the beatles catalogue in 1985, his record sales miraculously shrunk.
this is fishy.....
 
Last edited:
I find 750 VERY believable.. Infact it would be very easy to believe a "Ober a billion" number if it were said..

Michael has so many solo albums..

From late 60's, 70's,80's, 90's,00's.. Including THE BEST SELLING ALBUM and several other albums that sold a very high number.
 
TSCM:
RIAA would just say that they certify sales on verifying claims from its members. Since none of major recording companies argued all RIAA certifications are supposed to be actual.

With this, certifying additional 8 million copies of Eagles' album in just 18 months in 1993-1995 is not related to actual retail sales, but only to:
1) wholesale shipments that were
2) claimed by Eagles' label at some prior time and happen to be processed to
3) certain degree to the moment of certification results announcement.

So there is three points where sales data can be incomplete and/or outdated. And this is how they only certified 14 million copies of "Greatest Hist" album by Eagles just 18 months before certifying 22.

It is regular thing; for example, few years ago sales of Elvis' albums and singles had major update, some of them decades after earlier certifications. Other acts also had updates where sales can not be actually tracked to real world retail trajectory in any way. That is just how their bureaucratic system works.

And, of course, none of current certification RIAA figures necessary has relation to any act's actual sales. The most reliable are other figures: wholesales data from labels and retail sales accounted by SoundScan.

As to 750 million: since we have information from label, we do not need to rely on RIAA in any way. With such information we can only derive that worldwide sales figures of both "Thriller" and complete catalogue of solo records were symmetrically multiplied by about two with 2006' Guinness announcements.

We can track about 60+ wholesale figure for "Thriller" and about 350 million solo records (singles and albums for both Motown/Universal and Epic Records/Legacy Records/Sony-BMG Music Entertainment).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bongani: since in reality there is no worldwide official certification organization (IFPI certifies sales only in Europe Union, though accounts worldwide sales "unofficially"), there is no responsibility by the likes of "Guinness" or marketing/managing people of acts to claim whatever worldwide sales figure they want.

That is how Elvis got even much more unrealistic sales figure 1 billion records, as well as "The Beatles". None of those acts are any close to those figures with trackable sales (Elvis has about 300 million solo records and Beatles about 400 million).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That is quite a revelation there, TSCM. WoW. No wonder MJ called them sharks and sharlatans. Looks like somebody did not want MJ to be the biggest seller in America. They couldn't revive elvis so the brought int the Eagles. I have not even heard of them until I came to an MJ board.


good point!!! .. I wouldn't be surprised if Michael owns the Eagles' catalog of songs in the near future.. Get them, Mike... Getem!
 
Off The Wall – 20 million
Thriller – 104 million
Bad – 32 million
Dangerous – 30 million
HIStory – 18 million
Blood On The Dance Floor – 8 million
Invincible – 10 million
****222 million*****

Other solo albums: (just to name some)

Got To Be There
I wanna Be Where You Are
Ben –
With A Childs Heart
Music & Me
Forever,Michael
One Day In Your Life
Farewell My Summer Love

Plus:
Anthologies
Best Of’s
Singles



ALL THAT ADDS UP u know..


Saying MJ sold 750 million albums is also saying: MJ sold 528 million albums aside from his major solo albums via 1980-2006...

So all MJ's solo work within the late 60's, 70's. And some work like singles and other releases sold 528 million.. That is 100% believable to me..

If an MJ single can sell a few million alone..

In singles alone MJ sold roughly 110 million.. That is an average of 2 million per single..

222 (OTW/THRILLER/BAD/DANGEROUS/HISTORY/BOTDF/INVINC.)
+ 110 Singles

332 million..

that gives 418 million more albums needed to make 750 mill.

devide that number with:

*All MJ's solo albums pre- Off The Wall
* Best Of's
*Anthologies

etc... U could easily reach 418 mill.
 
Last edited:
i 'm not saying they should but i think they also count j5/jacksons sales too which does make it seem like 750 mill is possible.
 
With J5,Jacksons, & MJ solo it would go OVER 750.. for sure..

We are talking a over a billion
 
Last edited:
It's unclear what exactly was included, sales-wise, when calculating the "750 million units" figure. However, if that total includes all album, record, video, download, ringtone, and merchandise sales from the 40 years of Michael's career, then I can certainly believe that number.

The so-called "official records" published by the recording industry are highly questionable in and of themselves, even more-so since it costs money to have albums and singles formally recertified and audited, and it is up to the record label(s) to pay to have this done. That's why none of Michael's albums have been recertified in the U.S. since 2005, though I have a feeling they will again be certified either late this year or by spring of next year, after the Thriller 25 run has come to an end.

Speaking of the RIAA and questionable statistics, they claim that Thriller sold 20 million copies in less than two years after its release, but then claim that it only sold a measly 1 million copies in six years between 1984 and 1990!! I can't fathom how that's even possible considering Thriller and Michael were EVERYWHERE throughout the 1980s and he put on sell-out tours and everything. I posted the message below some time ago in another thread regarding RIAA sales, which further highlights the issue:

Quote:
Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album was last audited and certified by the RIAA (27x) on 04/25/2005.

The Eagles' "Their Greatest Hits: 1971-1975" album was last audited and certified by the RIAA (29x) on 01/30/2006.

Thus, none of the Thriller album sales since April 2005 have been accounted for. These are just estimates, but based on some Soundscan figures from that point onwards, Thriller (including Thriller 2001 SE) has sold at least 315,000 in the U.S. and may have sold more like 400-500,000. That, combined with the total sales of Thriller 25, means that it's already quickly approaching (or perhaps even past) one million copies of Thriller sold since the last certification. If Sony/Epic waits until next spring to have Thriller reaudited by the RIAA, and if Thriller 25 continues to sell well like it has been, I imagine Thriller will probably be recertified for 29-30x next year.

There is one thing that does seem really mind-boggling to me. Eagles' Greatest Hits came out on vinyl in 1976 and on CD in 1990. 14 years after its release (on 08/21/1990), the album was certified 12x platinum for selling 12 million copies in the United States. More than 3 years later on 12/14/1993, it had sold an additional 2 million copies and was up to 14x platinum. Now, according to RIAA certifications, this then 17-year-old Eagles album miraculously sold 8 million more copies in the United States between 12/14/1993 and 06/05/1995 raising its platinum status from 14x to 22x--in less than 18 months time.

Meanwhile, Thriller went 20x platinum less than 2 years after its release, but then according to the RIAA certifications sales of Thriller completely died and the album only sold 1 million more copies from 10/30/1984 to 05/24/1990; despite Michael's record-breaking tour and all of the other events and buzz that continued to surround Thriller throughout the 80s. So, Eagles' Greatest Hits sold 8 million more copies in 18 months some 17 years after it came out, while Thriller apparently only sold 1 million more copies in nearly 6 years even though it was still a fresh album. I just find that amazing...

You see after MJ bought the beatles catalogue in 1985, his record sales miraculously shrunk.
this is fishy.....


I too noticed how fast the Eagles came from nowhere to become "#1" in the US. I have always suppected that this is BS! What I see is not a coencidence nor they just were not certified by the RIAA. This is part of the whole to destroy Michael Jackson.

Think about every "official" MJ anything and you see this trend.

He earns nothing yet owns 50% of Sony/Atv publishing. His so called debt is always said to be higher and higher. Sony/Atv has doubled in size since 1999; Yet MJ's share of the CAT is always said to be around 500 million a figure which is from the early 90s.

He is never on any list of powerful, wealthy, biggest celebs yet he is written about (usually negative) almost everyday. Every one copies & borrows his moves and his vids. Yet he is still mobbed almost everywhere he goes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-EbSKGfgm8&feature=related
I have not seen anyone with the exception of an awards show such as Cannes or the Oscars get this kind of attention; this includes Madonna, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Tom Cruise. Yet he is a fallen star?

He is the only one who is compared to Thriller sales(no one else ever is)

I will end there although there are many more things that are only done to this man. Yes I believe there is an organized and sustained effort by a very powerful group to erase MJ's success and leave him with nothing. His music sales is one part of this.
 
Last edited:
i believe it. I mean this is a Artist that almost every household has about 5 or more of his recordings. I mean the best quote to sum up MJ's overall impact came courtesy of Rapper B Real when he said quote more people smoke Pot than listen to Michael Jackson. that is a ton of Herb and there are a ton of folks who have bought or listen to MJ.
 
I dont believe the 750 million sales figures cause its not even close to be real. In his career MJ has released 5 mega albums(OTW,Thriller,Bad,Dangerous,History)combined those albums have sold worldwide a maximum of 180 million copies closer to 160 actually but just say 180 in fact lets say 200 million to make our point. Those 5 albums released between 30-40 singles world wide,lets say they ALL sold 5 million copies each worldwide(only 3 MJ singles have sold close to over 5 million Thriller,Billie Jean,and Beat It actually) that would give you 150-200 million more for a total of 350-400 million. Lets say his solo Motown recording sold 100 million, which is about 10 times too many and add in sales for all his compilations(Number Ones,Essential,Thriller25,Ultimate)and the sales of Blood on the Dance Floor and Invinsible and you can see he is far short of 750 million records sold. According to the below site and statistcal analysis MJ has sold between 300-350 million records which would be 2nd to the Beatles all time.

http://www.mjjcharts.com/
 
Saying MJ did 750 million is like saying the Elvis & the Beatles did 1 billion, lol. That's all I'm gonna say.

But Mike did sell a ridiculous and amazing amount of records throughout his 37-year solo career.
 
Shame on the fans who raise such doubts!! Why it is too big for MJ to sell over 750 millions, why even think about it or investigate it?!?! Maybe those “so called fans” can go themselves and get a lawyer who can work on in this case perhaps they’ll be able to prove this figure is wrong.
 
Last edited:
denirs: Thank you for the info, I'm still a bit confused but atleast I have an idea how all this works.

kopv: I think I'l use what you said to fend off claims that 750 mill aint true, It really sounds plausible if you put it that way..
 
i 'm not saying they should but i think they also count j5/jacksons sales too which does make it seem like 750 mill is possible.

I think J5/Jacksons should count. Why not reward someone for their work and talent? Regardless what age he was. He was a great singer/performer/leader then, and that's not to discredit the other Jacksons' contributions. Not allowing those years to count in his statistics is basically like saying "you didn't do that and that time is irrelevant to your career."

As for the figure, I don't know or really care what the exact number of sales are. I know MJ sold a godly amount and is in the top three of biggest all-time acts. Unfortunately with him, Elvis, and The Beatles there's no conclusive number, but we should be satisfied with what we do know as fact.
 
AW: Re: "750 million" Why don't people believe this figure

There is one thing that does seem really mind-boggling to me. Eagles' Greatest Hits came out on vinyl in 1976 and on CD in 1990. 14 years after its release (on 08/21/1990), the album was certified 12x platinum for selling 12 million copies in the United States. More than 3 years later on 12/14/1993, it had sold an additional 2 million copies and was up to 14x platinum. Now, according to RIAA certifications, this then 17-year-old Eagles album miraculously sold 8 million more copies in the United States between 12/14/1993 and 06/05/1995 raising its platinum status from 14x to 22x--in less than 18 months time.
Yes, the Eagles thing is mind-boggling... it is amazing how quick it rose in it's sale status, but you shouldn't forget that in 1994 the Eagles reunited for the first time in 17 years with the "Hell freezes over" unplugged, album (which was certified for 5 mio on 06/05/1995) and tour... so obviously the sales of the "Greatest Hits" album will peak, especially since it only has been released on CD in 1990!

Other than that I have to add:

Shame on the fans who raise such doubts!! Why it is too big for MJ to sell over 750 millions, why even think about it or investigate it?!?! Maybe those “so called fans” can go themselves and get a lawyer who can work on in this case perhaps they’ll be able to prove this figure is wrong.
There is no need to call people who question the number "so called fans"... I'm not less of a fan than you, just because I view it a bit more realistic and am a bit more skeptic! Fans would do well, to not get so defensive when someone questions that number because:

Saying MJ did 750 million is like saying the Elvis & the Beatles did 1 billion, lol. That's all I'm gonna say.

and more importantly

But Mike did sell a ridiculous and amazing amount of records throughout his 37-year solo career.
and that's the main thing!
 
Re: AW: Re: "750 million" Why don't people believe this figure

There is no need to call people who question the number "so called fans"... I'm not less of a fan than you, just because I view it a bit more realistic and am a bit more skeptic! Fans would do well, to not get so defensive when someone questions that number because:


and more importantly

and that's the main thing!

I am talking about the fans who find it hard to believe and find it exaggerated.

750 mil could probably be a round figure and I know that it was publicly announced and attested by reputable organizations, what type of a “fan” who try to prove the figure is less?! Being aware of MJ’s history gives you no surprise to believe this figure could be even more, maybe there could be sales not even counted in the past and MJ may have done well over 750 mil. I thought when this topic was raised, fans will be more aware and ready to prove MJ is worth it and fans should be the ones to be defensive against all the skeptics since the figure was publicly announced on the WMA/Guinness, otherwise if this was an unreliable source (which is doubtful) then you could be very skeptical. Me being a fan I try to be a reference and support him when he deserves it.
 
Back
Top