startinsomethin87
Proud Member
I've always wondered what it would be like to be shot out that thing. lol
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The Dangerous Tour Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Agent Black
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I've always wondered what it would be like to be shot out that thing. lol
michaelsson
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it was rehearsals. a few fans were invited 2watch
82Thriller84
Proud Member
i see what you mean in places, but to me it was mostly amazing !! nobody can do what Michael can do.
Where exactly are these videos? Show me one?
And you say HIStory tour was lip-synced every night because he didn't want to go through what he went through on Dangerous Tour..............Dangerous tour which was also heavily lip synced ha ha
FACT! Michael lip-synced because he could, not due to no illness, its proven in the fact both tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts. here is another great proving point
Why did michael lip-sync all songs apart from J5 Medley & WBSS on HIStory tour...........Because they were the only 2 songs he couldn't get away with, WBSS would have been too slow, the vocals are not power full and it would have been blatantly lip-synced, J5 Medley, well a 10 year old MJ voice would be weird lol
And bad tour was re-arranged to include some lip-syncing, Michael does this because he can, not because of an illness
Also why does he lip-sync on one off shows? BECAUSE HE CAN
All Earth song performances, Dangerous performances, Elizabeth I Love You and so on, He does this because the songs are not rehearsed to be done live
Its an amazteur recording taken from a VHS tape, we only have parts of the rehearsals sadly, I got hold of the SIM clip and uploaded it for fans a few years back, I have been trying to get more
benscarr
Proud Member
You could be right, but I'm still not convinced. Where was the rehearsal, and why were a few fans invited.
Where don't know the reasons why Michael choose to lip-sync the majority of the songs on the History Tour. Maybe is like you said "Because he can", and maybe the after years of touring from the 1960's to the Bad Tour which was gruling took it's tool on the Bad Tour which obviously had an effect on the Dangerous Tour, and Michael may have been advised not to sing live again or for some years on long tours. It could be that Michael can't be bothered to sing live and was just lazy. Basically we don't know the full facts, just our own speculation.
You said Michael sang Wanna Be Startin Somethin, J5 Medley live and HIStory (HIStory was lip-synced) because he wouldn't be able to get away with lip-syncing them. Well Michael could get away with lip-syncing them (even though he sag WBSS and the J5 Medley live), because he could re-recorded live vocal versions of them and use them as playback to lip-sync as Michael did with You Rock My World on the MSG 30th Anniversary concerts in 2005. Michael's also sang the J5 medley many times as an adult, and could use audio recordings of rehearsals from previous tours etc and digitally extract ay background noise. As for not lip-syncing Wanna Be Startin Somethin on the History Tour, wouldn't be because in your view the vocals would be too slow, it would be because the song contains a number of sound effects such as wispers etc.
FACT! There is no proven fact that both the Dangerous and History Tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts, if you mean that the public and fans were supposed to know it was a lip-synced tour. The Dangerous Tour had far more live vocals than lip-synced, nearly every song was sang 100% live except about 3 or 4. And quite a number of Dangerous concerts were cancelled in 1992 during to throat problems Michael was having. If the Dangerous Tour was planned to be a lip synced tour, then Michael would never have done rehearsals and sang live on them
The History Tour may or may not have ended up being tour planned to be lip synced tour, but it's not a proven fact that it was planned from the start. Fans attending Michael's History Tour were supposed to have though he was singing live, and it's obvious it wasn't. Also you say Michael wouldn't get away with lip-syncing certain songs like WBSS, when the fact is Michael doesn't get away with lip-syncing any songs on tour because he's the worst as lip-syncing as he's a naturally good at singing live on tour.
Another thing about the History Tour is that Michael lip-synced songs like You Are Not Alone and a few others and sang the end parts of the songs live. On Beat It Michael lip-synced the first half of the song until the guitar part, then on the last part of the song with the dancing Michael would sing live. And that is before the extended brake down on Beat It.
But doesn't sound like a rehearsal ?, it sounds like an actual concert that's been passed off as a rehearsal because if the screaming fans, which you don't get at rehearsals.
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michaelsson
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rehearsals were iin prgue. and the fans werent loud enough 4 it 2even be considered 2be a concert lol
Michael never used re-recorded vocals for any of the shows, all the vocals came from the studio cuts, he obviously didn't feel the need to re-record or didn't have time.
Lol at refering to the DWT rehearsals, these were early rehearsals, dance rehearsal in fact, Michael didn't even know what was going on most the way through them, and even on those Smooth Criminal had the original backing voclas being played, The reason Michael sung those live (Like he was trying) was because playing his vocals over the top would stupid because the whole point of the show was to co-ordinate things, and Michael is giving instructions throughout those rehearsals, the tapes where then given to the dancers and band to take home and rehearse privately.
songs that were mimed, Jam, Smooth Criminal, Thriller, Will you be there, The Way You Make Me Feel, Bad, Black Or White, Heal The World, Man In The Mirror thats 9 songs not 3 or 4, thats half the setlist!
Listen to the Munich rehearsals audio, they are NOT sung live!
Also on another note, why did Michael mime almost all his one off performances? Elizabeth I Love you, How Crazy is that!
Those are from Prague rehearsals, I got the clip from a friend and leaked it online a few years back, the show was held at Letna Park, Park being the keyword, it was open air I believe, you can search the rehearsals video on youtube, they try to cover the stage with black material so people can't see
benscarr
Proud Member
I am very aware does use vocals from his studio cuts when he's lip-synced on tour. And you have misread what I said, which is that Michael could have re-recorded live vocals for songs on his tours like WBSS if he wanted to. And Michael did re-recorded a live vocal for YRMW in 2001.
For a start, Michael only performed Bad and The Way You Make Me Feel at his first concert in Munich in 1992, after that they were dropped from the setlist.
The amount of songs Michael lip-synced depended on his problems at the time. Michael may have ip-synced more songs that 3 or 4, but the tour was mostly sang live WBSS/ Human Nature, Smooth Criminal (sometimes lip-synced) / Black Or White (sometimes lip-synced) / Billie Jean/ Beat It/ Working Day and Night were sang live. The Dangerous Tour was not planned as a lip-synced tour, Michael was ill on that tour due to thoat problems in 1992, and then on the 1993 leg when the false abuse accusations happened he was addicted to pain killers. Plus on the 1993 leg Beat It was dropped from the set list, and may have been replaced by Dangerous.
Michael should sing live on all if one off televsion performances, as I hate lip-syncing. I also don't like the song or performance of Elizabeth I Love you.
How Crazy is that! well you tell me because what exactly is it your saying. Are you saying Michael can't sing live ?
Those are from Prague rehearsals, I got the clip from a friend and leaked it online a few years back, the show was held at Letna Park, Park being the keyword, it was open air I believe, you can search the rehearsals video on youtube, they try to cover the stage with black material so people can't see
I can't find a YouTube link for the Prague rehearsal, except for that Stranger In Moscow segment.
I'm still not 100% convinced.
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michaelsson
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have u seen/heard the audio 4rm the prague show? major difference seeing how has stranger in moscow isnt live and the crowd was loud ass hell
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Okay seems, you don't know too much about MJ live, for a start its a joke to say he sung Smooth Criminal live on Dangerous tour, it was lip-synced from start to finish! Black or White was lip-synced on all but maybe 3 or 4 shows as an estimate, nearly every recording bar munich, cologne, and wembley (Maybe not heard live in the stadium, but later added to the song for a special airing on tv).
We we're talking about MIchael planning on lip-syncing from the beginning, hence I included TWYMMF & Bad, BUT these were added back into the set-list later in the tour
I do agree about the 1993 shows, he was in some serious problems but listen to his vocals on the opening show and tell me he has throat problems.........
About Elizabeth I Love You, I said it was crazy because no one actually knows why he mimed it? It was a one off, slow performance that he could have pulled off nicely, but he mimed it after the abut a minute inot the song til the end :S
PRAGUE REHEARSALS - NOT A CONCERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
benscarr
Proud Member
Okay seems, you don't know too much about MJ live, for a start its a joke to say he sung Smooth Criminal live on Dangerous tour, it was lip-synced from start to finish! Black or White was lip-synced on all but maybe 3 or 4 shows as an estimate, nearly every recording bar munich, cologne, and wembley (Maybe not heard live in the stadium, but later added to the song for a special airing on tv).
We we're talking about MIchael planning on lip-syncing from the beginning, hence I included TWYMMF & Bad, BUT these were added back into the set-list later in the tour
I do agree about the 1993 shows, he was in some serious problems but listen to his vocals on the opening show and tell me he has throat problems.........
About Elizabeth I Love You, I said it was crazy because no one actually knows why he mimed it? It was a one off, slow performance that he could have pulled off nicely, but he mimed it after the abut a minute inot the song til the end :S
PRAGUE REHEARSALS - NOT A CONCERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good rehearsal footage, and I'm now convinced the Stranger In Moscow audio is from a rehearsal.
Don't tell me I don't know much about Michael live, I know my stuff. You can disagree with me, but have some respect when you debate with people otherwise don't bother.
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I do have respect, and give respect when its due, but you obviously commented rashly without doing any homework and it appeared that you didn't know much, So you set yourself up for that. I know a great deal about Michael live, its what I do, Its my main fascination with Michael so naturally when people relay wrong info, I have to step up. Over time I have done this and corrected the MJ community on alot of things I.E Dates of live shows, venues and so on
I said re-recorded, he never recorded any new vocals for his tour, he did use slightly different vocals ocassionally but from the studio sessions, in Will You Be There, it has different lyrics on one line
and TWYMMF 2001 was the album version just knocked down a semitone or so to match his rougher voice now
He did the same with beat It. I am not sure about what Ben said about You Rock My World, I will have to watch when I get home from work, but I think he sung it partly live one night, they mixed both nights up though on the Televised version, I am pretty sure he never re-recorded vocals especially for the show if he did. He probably used different studio cut vocals, I will watch
benscarr
Proud Member
I know my stuff about Michael Jackson live, and don't mind admiting when I'm wrong. To say I don't now about Michael Jackson live is a sweeping statement. I will be transfering my video of the Dangerous Rehearsal over to DVD, and I'll watch it again to see if Michael had planned to lip-sync on the Dangerous Tour. I'll try and get hold of a tape recorder to listen to cassettes I have of various Dangerous concerts from 1992 as I still see some of what you say debateable. Also when replying to a debate, I don't appreciate sarcastic LOL's as I don't respect people who are sarcastic or arrogant in there responses. I don't mind having things pointed out if I'm wrong on a fact, because it adds to my knowledge.
I know my stuff, and I have a I have a huge archive bootleg videos, DVD's, and audio recording ie cassettes, cds and vinyls that I've been collecting for over 20yrs. I don't mind saying my knowlewdge of the Dangerous Tour is a bit rusty, as it's not a favorite era of mine and I very rarely watch or listen to the Dangerous concerts I have. But now I'm thinking about it, I'll be transfering MTV's Dangerous Tour Diaries I recorded on video in 1992 over to DVD as that was a cool programme. And I'll have a look at the other Dangerous era live stuff I have.
Respect should be given when replying to a members post (epecially when they have made no personal comments, or sweeping statements etc), it's not something that's given when you feel credit is due.
Don't accuse me of spreading false info on YouTube, and all this crap about there being a difference in having an opinon and fact etc, there was no need so be so f*cking aggressive when I have said I was wrong about the audio for the rehearsal on Stranger In Moscow on here and on YouTube, because I could have completely ingnored it. That's obviously not good enough for you.
Your view that Michael may have used an unused vocal cut from YRMW studio recording is possible. But why do you need to watch it again, when accroding to you I don't know anything about Michael Jackson live.
I would suggest you stop telling me I don't know anything or have little knowledge of Michael Jackson live, and we stop this heated debate and start are more friendly one.
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Why you going all defensive, I didn't put anything personal that was not already obvious, I said you don't know too much, the keywords being "too much" especially on DWT which you just admitted above, so if you want to comment on something you are "rusty" on maybe its wise to listen to dangerous tour before commenting, not after. All the info and videos are available on youtube and info on numerous sites including this one
I don't go out my way to attack people, you seem to be suggesting something along those lines, in fact I do like to put people right when they are wrong, its only for the benefits of other fans though, like I said I have proven so much stuff in the pass that was wrong information.
And I do respect members, I have uploaded alot of rare videos, audio and made some great mixes for the community to enjoy and I give respect when its due, you seem to trip over your words, when I say I give respect when its due, that means when its due, which is usually all the time to other members, but you mention I had no respect, why is that? Because I opposed wrong info you were posting? thats bitter, I never said anything personal about you, I don't know you, but it was obvious you didn't have a clue about some of this topic, saying 3 or 4 songs were lip-synced on DWT when it was 9, saying Black or White was live, when that was only a couple of shows, Saying SC was live when he never sung it live, Saying SIM was from a concert, when it was a rehearsal, can you see what I am saying, And you talk about sweeping statements, when you are posting clearly false statements, double standards?
And about replying on youtube, you clearly made a statement saying it was NOT from a rehearsal, and then you say you didn't spread false info? without even investigating nothing you said it was from a concert, no ifs or buts or maybe it is, you said it WAS, as if you knew
And again about me saying LOL, come on people say it all time, its embedded in the internet language! Turn back a page Michaelsson even said it referring to your comment, he have no respect either? Of course he does, he was just using his knowledge to correct you, thats all
benscarr
Proud Member
Why you going all defensive, I didn't put anything personal that was not already obvious, I said you don't know too much, the keywords being "too much" especially on DWT which you just admitted above, so if you want to comment on something you are "rusty" on maybe its wise to listen to dangerous tour before commenting, not after. All the info and videos are available on youtube and info on numerous sites including this one
I don't go out my way to attack people, you seem to be suggesting something along those lines, in fact I do like to put people right when they are wrong, its only for the benefits of other fans though, like I said I have proven so much stuff in the pass that was wrong information.
And I do respect members, I have uploaded alot of rare videos, audio and made some great mixes for the community to enjoy and I give respect when its due, you seem to trip over your words, when I say I give respect when its due, that means when its due, which is usually all the time to other members, but you mention I had no respect, why is that? Because I opposed wrong info you were posting? thats bitter, I never said anything personal about you, I don't know you, but it was obvious you didn't have a clue about some of this topic, saying 3 or 4 songs were lip-synced on DWT when it was 9, saying Black or White was live, when that was only a couple of shows, Saying SC was live when he never sung it live, Saying SIM was from a concert, when it was a rehearsal, can you see what I am saying, And you talk about sweeping statements, when you are posting clearly false statements, double standards?
And about replying on youtube, you clearly made a statement saying it was NOT from a rehearsal, and then you say you didn't spread false info? without even investigating nothing you said it was from a concert, no ifs or buts or maybe it is, you said it WAS, as if you knew
And again about me saying LOL, come on people say it all time, its embedded in the internet language! Turn back a page Michaelsson even said it referring to your comment, he have no respect either? Of course he does, he was just using his knowledge to correct you, thats all
I said I got my opinion of the rehearsals was wrong, and once again that obviously wasn't good enough for you. Your replys are vindictive and aggressive, and you have gone way over the top by accusing me of spreading false information on YouTube. You have gone out of your way to attack me, your attiude is one of a bully and you are not following to rules of this site of being respectful to members.
Michaelsson stuck to the topic of the rehearsal of Stranger In Moscow didn't go any further and you have gone over the top and you are being very personal for no reason other than the fact I don't feel the audio was authentic at first. I can admit when I'm wrong, and you can't and your wrong in the manner you have attcaked me on this thread.
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Thats you're opinion, at the end of the day everything I posted could be backed up, I do research, You posted alot of info as being fact when its nothing but fiction. You said I went over the top but it wasn't me who started swearing,I suggest you know what you are talking about before you post stuff you aint got a clue about,I don't go into topics and post wrong info, like you clearly have, you accepted you were wrong, thats cool but don't be bitter and start accusing me of being aggressive, I work on facts, simple and blunt,I came into this thread to post some correct info for the fans, not to have you playing victim and saying how harsh I am, I am not like that.
benscarr
Proud Member
I'm not playing the victim, and you are the one who is bitter. You are the one who accuses me of spreading false information etc. Yes I started swearing, but you shouldn't have made vindicted replys to me full with arrogant and sweeping statements.
You are aggressive and you have gone over the top. You seem to want to make me feel guilty, well I don't feel guility at all. I got a fact wrong, no big deal to me to admit I was wrong because there is no shame in it. You are way out of line in your responses, sweeping statement of my knowlegde of Michael Jackson live and for accusing me of "spreading" false info on YouTube. If I was spreading false info I would have done more than have written down my opinion about a piece of audio.
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Me trying to make you feel guilty,I am only saying stop acting victim, you want an apology or summat? I am just a bit miffed at how you could write stuff without any knowledge of it? this is going way off topic,I have my opinions, you have yours, This thread is for talk and facts on DWT of which I have added some facts, you have added yours.I just don't see the points in your responses, whatare you trying to acheive? what exactly?
On topic, does anyone know Michael later added TWYMMF and Bad back into the Dangerous Tour setlist?
benscarr
Proud Member
What I'm I trying to achieve, that's something I wonder about you with your aggressive and vindictive posts. I think we are could get this tread locked, not something that I want to happen but your started it going downhill by being agressive and not accepting I was wrong by being friendly and moving on, but by being arrogant.
I asked for us to have a more friendly debate about this and it's obviously wasn't what you wanted, so it's hypocritical to ask me what I want to achieve. You are the one who started the aggressive posts, getting personal and making sweeping statements about my knowledge and going over the top by accusing me of spreading false information. To receive such an aggressive reponse from you, I would have to have gone to great lenghths to saying the Stranger In Moscow audio was a fake, or say you your a racist (and I'm 100% sure you are not a racist) to get such responses from you.
Oh you have your opinions and I have mine, well you should have said that and politely accepted I got my fact wrong much earlier.
And in response you your question about if TWYMMF and Bad back into the Dangerous Tour setlist? They weren't, but Dangerous was added to the last few concerts on the 1993 leg of the tour. And I have heard Beat It was dropped from a few concerts, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.
I would like to stop these arguing, but for that you have to admit you went over the top by saying I spread false information on YouTube, and admit you have made a sweeping statement about my knowlege of Michael Jackson live. Because I have admited I was wrong about the Stranger In Moscow audio, and that my knowledge of the Dangerous Tour is rusty (but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about the tour). But I doubt you will admit to anything.
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Yes a good clean-up of this thread might be due, yes sir, next time when replying to someone I will remember my please and thank you's! I wont swear in threads either...................like you did..............double standards. I am sorry but this is ridiculas, utterly pathetic!
benscarr
Proud Member
I don't need you to say please and thankyou's. You should just stick to the actual topic, and not be so aggressive in your responses especially when I have admited I got a fact wrong, and but that still wasn't good enough was it. Don't worry this tread will be cleared up. Double standards, well your the one who started it not me and your the one who doesn't follow the rules of this site.
I started it, when you cleary quoted my first long statement saying this
"FACT! There is no proven fact that both the Dangerous and History Tours were planned to be lip-synced in parts, if you mean that the public and fans were supposed to know it was a lip-synced tour. The Dangerous Tour had far more live vocals than lip-synced, nearly every song was sang 100% live except about 3 or 4. And quite a number of Dangerous concerts were cancelled in 1992 during to throat problems Michael was having. If the Dangerous Tour was planned to be a lip synced tour, then Michael would never have done rehearsals and sang live on them"
Other than the throat problems which is widely known, nothing else above is fact, now if you don't want people to comment on thing you wrote that are wrong then don't write them, and as for saying I started it, is childish, this thread is for info on the dangerous tour, I added some, you added some false info, I corrected you, you got bitter and wouldn't leave it, making me out to be some kind of disrepectful monster which I am not, I do alot for MJ fans, I uploaded rare audio, video and have a great youtube channel www.youtube.com/birchey3000 read some of the comments on my vids. I don't see how all this is so important to you, I mean I only stated the obvious, if you are unsure about something don't post it as fact
But back on topic again! I don't think Michael really had on-going throat problems on dangerous tour, not until the end, I certainly dont think he would have added more songs to the setlist in late 1992 if he did, I think exhaustion may have hit him more, but 93 he definately suffered, thats when he stripped 2 live songs and replaced them with dangerous (you could could it as being 4 shows as he took TWYMMF and Bad back out the setlist in late december 1992)
I hope he sings live for the o2 concerts but I think it would be a push, but alot of the music, sounds and arrangements could be produced around his lower, grittier vocacls, but thats only really going on 30th Anniversary concert, which I don't think Michael was much into
He added TWYMMF and Bad back into a few tokyo shows after public demand, he did drop Beat it yes and also Working Day and Night and replaced them with Dangerous, he also never performed the J5 Medley at Sao Paulo (I think it was Sao Paulo) that was the shortest DWT Concert of all it was 4 songs shorter than the opening show in Munich, I think he did well to cancel when he did even though the show was to head over the Australia and maybe into the early part of 1994
benscarr
Proud Member
That's interesting, good info. I'd like to see some of the Japan Dangerous concerts in full, as I have some footage and Michael's arrival at the airport on video. I would like Michael to completely drop the J5 Medley, or re-arrange it and add some Jacksons songs to it.
With the opening Munich concerts, I have a video I recorded a DEF II Special (late 1980's early 1990's music programme) on BBC Two. Michael sings Black Or White live on that specific broadcast, his vocals on it aren't great (which I presume had to do with the troat problem that Michael had on the tour), and I think that performance is from the opening concert of the tour. Did when did start lip-syncing the song. I have to get a tape recorder so I can listen to a Wembley concert I have on audio of black or white.
One some performances of Human Nature on the tour, Michael barely sang Human Nature and appeared to mumble barely audiable vocals (these are somethings I have to watch and listen to again). I think Michael's vocal performances on the Bruni concerts in 1996 were much better, epecially the vocals on Wanna Be Startin Somethin, and on both the vocals and the robot dance on Human Nature.
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Someone I know has one of the concerts on audio cassette, they are suppose to be sending it to me to transfer, It would be interesting to hear, as usually the Japanese concerts are quite different from the rest, don't know why? The tracks on bad tour were slowed down, also they added a "godzilla" sound to WBSS in Japan 88 which I don't think anyone has noticed but me, I am sad like that. Also in Japan 92 & 96 Michael wore "messy" hair, not like the other shows, and in Japan of course we got different outfits, well I know he wore at least one different jacket
Listen at 0:41 & 0:45 for the "godzilla" SFX, they may have sampled it on the synth
benscarr
Proud Member
I've heard their critics aren't as harsh as the rest of the world. At least in the 1980's and 1990's many major artists would start their tours their as a kind of practice/experiment run. I think Michael did this with the Bad Tour in 1987, which was basically a solo Victory Tour with I Just Can't Stop Loving and Bad add, before he started the USA and rest of the world tour in early 1988 with more songs from Bad and only Heartbreak Hotel from The Jacksons.
The Wanna Be Startin Somethin "Godzilla" sounds like a synth to me, in what Quincy Jones would discribe as white noise, as in a kind if hidden not/arrangment like how Michael's music is composed where it sounds simple, but underneth there is a lot more arrangment that their appears to be.
In response to Michael singing live at the O2, I think the credibility of his concerts depend on it. I know the lip-syncing wasn't greatly acknowledged by the media (except for News Round on BBC One)on the HIStory Tour and that suprised me, but I think they wouldn't ignore it this time. I'm not worried about Michael's energy level just his live vocals, which were stunning in the from the first Jackson 5 tour in 1970 to the Bad Tour. I'm still not sure if the troat problems have effected Michael's use of them on tour or not. And no questions have been submitted to MJJ Productions or AEG about Michael's vocal ability while performing and dancing.
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The black or white performances baffle me lol, well if you listen on Munich the playback vocals don't come in where they are supposed to, I think it forced MJ to sing it live, then they gradually bring in the playback, he sings it live on Cologne, a couple of shows later :S There is a video of him performing it from wembley supposedly the 30th July 1992, but on he amateur audio it is lip-synced, but that was one of the "Edited" videos, Michael likes to broadcast, so I think the vocal track was added, maybe from Munich not sure. I actually have the official Sony EPK Promo VHS the BBC used for the DEFII Special, its got all the clips from the special uncut and then a black screen for a few seconds, I might upload when i can transfer.
I think after Early Bad Tour Human nature should have been dropped, or not placed near WBSS one of the most energetic tiring songs on the set-list, but the dancing is nice