MJ CLINICALLY DEAD Long Before Medical Help Turned Up at His LA home.

i'm wondering whether Murray's panic was real or not?
was it a show?

or was it real? if it was real then why?

if i didnt know that he was a real doctor, i would have thought that it was a planted "actor" because he didnt react professionally. a cardiologist cannot react like that. and how is it possible to make so many mistakes?
My gut feeling says 'show' from putting it together thus far ... why ... well for one, the paramedics said MJ seemed to be dead when they got there, adding to that the fact that Kai Chase said the doctor did not come down that morning as he normally would, added to those two things the fact that Kai Chase also said that the doctor ran downstairs yelling for Prince and she said that Prince stayed in the kitchen with her. Why didn't Prince follow the doctor upstairs? Michael was Paris' daddy too. Kai Chase said that Paris was there crying. Why, if Prince was just going to stay in the kitchen where Paris wound up anyway (in a prayer circle with the staff) why did the doctor come yelling for Prince in the first place? Right now my vote is, "show".

3:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lgluCfrnNA
 
Last edited:
with drug addiction/dependence and appearance, it varies person to person. some people i encounter you would never know they are are addicts because they cover up their signs of addiction and are very clever at hiding it. for others you can tell a mile off - they might be underweight, sluggish, have dulled expression.

likewise some people i meet they only take their drugs at night when they are sleeping, and some long for oblivion because they have trouble sleeping each night. so during the day they might appear fine.
 
I won't believe the drug addiction theory until I hear something official from the family. I know it's easy to believe giving his past experiences and that the media is really pushing that way but the truth can be easily twisted to make it fit their reality. They'd go and make him a 'prescription drug addict' when he's only taking meds for lupus, vitiligo, anxiety or whatever real ailments he had that we don't know about.
My mother-in-law is taking antidepressants. Big deal. But if she was famous and died you'd never hear the end of it from the press.
That's just how it goes with celebrities, especially Mike.
 
My gut feeling says 'show' from putting it together thus far ... why ... well for one, the paramedics said MJ seemed to be dead when they got there,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lgluCfrnNA

this "get Prince" thing is so confusing.

- if you are looking for the elder son it means you know for sure that his father is dead. otherwise why then?

- if an emergency happens in the hospital, i cannot imagine cargiologist running up and down the stairs screaming

- she said paramedics arrived within minutes after "the stairs show"

- was this "stairs show" done to prepare the scene for paramedics? or others to say later that there was an emergency raised by the doctor?
 
Were there any fans outside the gates to the house that morning? I'm guessing that, if Murray did realise Michael was at least in serious trouble when he sent employees to that storage unit at 9am, then he either ran with whatever was going on in there for the next three hours solely on his OWN, or he made calls to other people to inform them too.

If the latter was the case I would have thought there may have been quite a lot of activity - people to'ing and fro'ing at the house which fans outside would have seen.
 
--"he was very excited about this tour. his kids were excited. we all were" = Happy

--"they're killing me, they're killing me" (meaning he was working so hard). = Unhappy

it might be me, but i'm trying to understand these two statements. if you are so stressed about something that you even come up to your staff, how can you be excited about it? if rehearsals are killing you, then you cannot be excited about 50 shows ahead... i dont understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqBCA_v4ZUQ&feature=related

she states that she didnt see any evidence of him being on drugs and he ate well

if the rehearsals are killing you, why you go back home and show dance moves to everybody? suppose you have no energy if rehearsals are killing you?

she left for 3 weeks and he lost weight? and wasnt the same?
 
Last edited:
maybe he was excited but as he started rehearsals he realized how much of an energy drain it was all gonna be. after all, he hadnt toured properly for a long time. i dont think michael would have backed out even if the tour came at great personal cost to his health. i think he knew if he cancelled the tour or postponed more dates there would be such a big uproar from people who had bought tickets it would have been unbearable. after all people make plans long before with airlines and accomodations.
 
Were there any fans outside the gates to the house that morning? I'm guessing that, if Murray did realise Michael was at least in serious trouble when he sent employees to that storage unit at 9am, then he either ran with whatever was going on in there for the next three hours solely on his OWN, or he made calls to other people to inform them too.

If the latter was the case I would have thought there may have been quite a lot of activity - people to'ing and fro'ing at the house which fans outside would have seen.


Yes, there were fans outside the gate the morning of June 25th, I don't know how many but it was a couple of those fans who called the Jackson family and told them about the ambulance arriving.

I believe Murray used his own cell phone around or right before 9:22am, telling the other conspirators: Mission accomplished, he is Dead. I can't remember which thread but I read somewhere just a day or so ago, about somebody being quoted( i think) saying, they knew MJ was dead hours before it was even reported? How would they know that if Murray hadn't called them?
 
My sentiments exactly, Soso. After the trial, nothing else mattered...and a damn tour was the last thing on my mind. I knew Michael would continue making music in the comfort of his studio - and I really thought that was the road he'd take. Chill out and just write music whenever he felt like it.

Why the HELL did it have to turn into this?


Because the Greedy, Dangerous people around him saw an opportunity for themselves and took it at all cost.
 
maybe he was excited but as he started rehearsals he realized how much of an energy drain it was all gonna be. after all, he hadnt toured properly for a long time. i dont think michael would have backed out even if the tour came at great personal cost to his health. i think he knew if he cancelled the tour or postponed more dates there would be such a big uproar from people who had bought tickets it would have been unbearable. after all people make plans long before with airlines and accomodations.

I think you are right. I think he was excited initially, but then found that the rehersals were causing him a lot of pin and exhaustion. He knew what devastating effects any canellations would have had on fans and on himself. Therefore he was backed into a corner from which he had no idea how to get out of. The stress must have been enormous
 
AND not knowing the address where you are at.......

and what sort of person calls for the kid, adults are there to protect kids not to show them their father in such a way.
 
In the real world, real people would have been thankful to get him booked for 10 dates........

To put such a pressure on a person, to take a perfectionist and lump him with that for 50 nights. He was going to be scrutinized anyhow, he could have got through 10 - with 10 you can see the end with 50 well all you can see is exhaustion. He was committed to his kids, where did they fit in with this?

13TH JULY 2009*
16th JULY 2009
18TH JULY 2009
22ND JULY 2009
24TH JULY 2009
26TH JULY 2009
28TH JULY 2009
30TH JULY 2009

1ST AUGUST 2009
3RD AUGUST 2009
10TH AUGUST 2009
12TH AUGUST 2009
17TH AUGUST 2009
19TH AUGUST 2009
24TH AUGUST 2009
26TH AUGUST 2009
28TH AUGUST 2009
30TH AUGUST 2009

1ST SEPTEMBER 2009
3RD SEPTEMBER 2009
6TH SEPTEMBER 2009
8TH SEPTEMBER 2009
10TH SEPTEMBER 2009
21ST SEPTEMBER 2009
23RD SEPTEMBER 2009
27TH SEPTEMBER 2009
29TH SEPTEMBER 2009

7TH JANUARY 2010
9TH JANUARY 2010
12TH JANUARY 2010
14TH JANUARY 2010
16TH JANUARY 2010
18TH JANUARY 2010
23RD JANUARY 2010
25TH JANUARY 2010
27TH JANUARY 2010
29TH JANUARY 2010

1ST FEBRUARY 2010
3RD FEBRUARY 2010
8TH FEBRUARY 2010
10TH FEBRUARY 2010
12TH FEBRUARY 2010
16TH FEBRUARY 2010
18TH FEBRUARY 2010
20TH FEBRUARY 2010
22ND FEBRUARY 2010
24TH FEBRUARY 2010

1ST MARCH 2010*
3RD MARCH 2010*
6TH MARCH 2010*
 
Yes, there were fans outside the gate the morning of June 25th, I don't know how many but it was a couple of those fans who called the Jackson family and told them about the ambulance arriving.

I believe Murray used his own cell phone around or right before 9:22am, telling the other conspirators: Mission accomplished, he is Dead. I can't remember which thread but I read somewhere just a day or so ago, about somebody being quoted( i think) saying, they knew MJ was dead hours before it was even reported? How would they know that if Murray hadn't called them?

Thanks. I'm just Googling the address - is it right the place had more than one entrance? There's a guest entrance mentioned on the site I've just looked at?
 
Don't forget that Murray was the one who suggested the autopsy (according to several reports) so don't get things twisted now.
oh so NOW we're supposed to believe reports? :doh:

ok if he had pronounced mj at the scene, an autopsy would've already been ordered automatically. y try to revivie a man for hrs on end?
 
--"he was very excited about this tour. his kids were excited. we all were" = Happy

--"they're killing me, they're killing me" (meaning he was working so hard). = Unhappy

it might be me, but i'm trying to understand these two statements. if you are so stressed about something that you even come up to your staff, how can you be excited about it? if rehearsals are killing you, then you cannot be excited about 50 shows ahead... i dont understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqBCA_v4ZUQ&feature=related

she states that she didnt see any evidence of him being on drugs and he ate well

if the rehearsals are killing you, why you go back home and show dance moves to everybody? suppose you have no energy if rehearsals are killing you?

she left for 3 weeks and he lost weight? and wasnt the same?

See what I mean about feeling like you're playing "Clue"? That's strange. How you be well 3 weeks before and then 3 weeks later, you're a wreck? :huh: Everybody talking about MJ in his final months is saying some contradictory stuff. :blink:
 
I believe Murray used his own cell phone around or right before 9:22am, telling the other conspirators: Mission accomplished, he is Dead. I can't remember which thread but I read somewhere just a day or so ago, about somebody being quoted( i think) saying, they knew MJ was dead hours before it was even reported? How would they know that if Murray hadn't called them?

Yes, that's right. Conert promoter, Terry Harvy said that Frank DiLeo informed him Michael was dead in the morning.

But that is from a tabloid article. No one knows if he really said it but so far Frank hasn't disputed the statement.
 
--" 'they're killing me, they're killing me' (meaning he was working so hard)".


It's hard for me to definitely say that the above statement was meant completely seriously. Maybe it's regional, but to say someone or something is "killing me" is not always meant verbatim/literally as that.

People I work with or friends use that phrase quite often in this part of the U.S.

Let's say one of our docs is admitting patients right and left and we are swamped for days. I would say something like "that doc is killing me" to a co-worker. Not meant literally, but half serious/half jokingly to get across just how busy I was and the pressure involved.

Or let's say I didn't get enough sleep for a few days, I'd say "this lack of sleep is killing me". Again, not meant literally, but a form of expression to convey a feeling or frustration. Or how about this, "I haven't had a chance to sit down or eat all week at work and they're killing me". I'm not trying to say that I am dying, if you get what I'm saying. It's an "expression", perhaps only used in certain areas of the world or U.S. IDK, that's my take on how that quote could be interpretted.
 
Last edited:
STATEOFshock, catherineNZ, and bowen9999 you all are making some great points and using yall head.

I don't see how anyone can defend murry. And this he panicked. Panicked for what? if he did nothing wrong why all the panicking. Just call 911 and do cpr until they get there. But who gets, and a DOCTOR at that, who gets so worked up that they a doctor forget proper cpr, waits 30 minutes to call 911, and forgets the address to were they work. COME ON NOW! yet ppl stil defend this guy.

I don't believe for one second a doctor panicked as bad has he did or that he's that stupid. uh uh nope! Michael would have been better off with otis from down the street finding him them murry. And you know why..... because otis would have called 911 first as soon as he found michael rather then waiting 30 minutes. Also why didn't murry get michael's breakfast. Maybe he panicked and forgot that too.

Its funny that murry could run down stairs and yell at kai to get prince no problem but he had to "supposedly" run around the house looking for someone with a phone who knew the address to call 911! Yeah ok whatever!
 
@ first post article

of course michael was long gone before ems got there. Michael was either gone or just about when murry never showed up for breakfast. Now the question is what was that fool doing up there with michael for so long. That trash in no ways tried to save or help michael.
 
If Dr. Murray was freaked out, it could indicate he knew he had screwed up and caused Michaels heart to stop by giving him propofol he knows he is not supposed to give someone who is not in a hospital. That AND the medication coctail.

I think in the end, Dr. Murrays medical career is finished, and if he gets lucky maybe not face man slaughter charges.

Stupid ass doctor, and stupid ass American healthcare politics.

This is what happens when you turn medicare into a profit business.

You get dumbass doctors who take risks they know they are not suppose to take, and all because their "client" means good money.
 
@ first post article

of course michael was long gone before ems got there. Michael was either gone or just about when murry never showed up for breakfast. Now the question is what was that fool doing up there with michael for so long. That trash in no ways tried to save or help michael.

Probably NOT doing CPR, making the upstairs as hot as possible, calling up Frank to tell him thats "its done" (if Harvey really did get that phone call from Frank in the morning), phoning the two woman in houston....ummm....that's all I can think of
 
honestly, i do think he panicked. im mad cuz i know he was in over his head. he could've been up front about this and not been so damn shady. i WANT to give him th ebenefit of the doubt cuz i know he didn't intend to kill mj

this isn't some plot to kill the kop. he messed up but did it big time and his actions are what's dictating people's damn anger towards him.
 
Yes, that's right. Conert promoter, Terry Harvy said that Frank DiLeo informed him Michael was dead in the morning.

But that is from a tabloid article. No one knows if he really said it but so far Frank hasn't disputed the statement.

Terry Harvey didn't get paid for his interview in the paper, leads you to believe the story more...
 
Probably NOT doing CPR, making the upstairs as hot as possible, calling up Frank to tell him thats "its done" (if Harvey really did get that phone call from Frank in the morning), phoning the two woman in houston....ummm....that's all I can think of

yeah I wonder if Murray's cell phone records show a call to Dileo, although if Dileo is up to something he'd have him call a cell phone number which couldn't be traced to Dileo....
 
STATEOFshock, catherineNZ, and bowen9999 you all are making some great points and using yall head.

I don't see how anyone can defend murry. And this he panicked. Panicked for what? if he did nothing wrong why all the panicking. Just call 911 and do cpr until they get there. But who gets, and a DOCTOR at that, who gets so worked up that they a doctor forget proper cpr, waits 30 minutes to call 911, and forgets the address to were they work. COME ON NOW! yet ppl stil defend this guy.

I don't believe for one second a doctor panicked as bad has he did or that he's that stupid. uh uh nope! Michael would have been better off with otis from down the street finding him them murry. And you know why..... because otis would have called 911 first as soon as he found michael rather then waiting 30 minutes. Also why didn't murry get michael's breakfast. Maybe he panicked and forgot that too.

Its funny that murry could run down stairs and yell at kai to get prince no problem but he had to "supposedly" run around the house looking for someone with a phone who knew the address to call 911! Yeah ok whatever!

Exactly (everything you said actually but the part in bold kinda cracked me up lol) you are absolutely right though.

Its interesting how all these people are new to MJ's inner circle and in such positions to be entrusted implicitly with his very life.
I'm looking closer at this chef because I'm getting the feeling she knew something ahead of time. Why do I say that. Well first of all,

she came out of the woodwork a month later to tell every television news outlet on the planet about MJ's "final hour" and with the most buoyant attitude of anyone I have ever seen lose a valued, beloved and treasured employer.

she popped out talking about preparing a book that she claims MJ "encouraged" her to write (and I noticed how the show hosts toss it in at the end of the interview like its irrelevant ... yeh right).

I have no doubt that MJ could have said to her something like, "wow you're gooooood, you should write a book". THAT I can believe. But as far as him saying something like, "dang you're good you should write a book using MY NAME, MY DIET, and my death" ...THAT I do NOT believe he meant by any stretch and I don't believe that any decent person in her position would perceive it that way either.

I believe that any decent person would wait, compile their thoughts, consult with MJ's family maybe later in the year ....or something .......rather than RUN to tv outlets giving heads ups about some cook book using the terminology, "Fit for a King" simply because it fits with MJ being the KOP ... but anyway ...

another thing that's been puzzling me is she says that after the doctor came running downstairs they all made a "prayer circle".

WHY.

Why make a prayer circle?

All the doctor did was yell for Prince and run back upstairs. Did he say, "MJ is dying oh my God!!" Not according to her. She rephrased whatever he said, into her own words, by saying that she told Prince, "something's wrong with your dad"

Why pray?

How did she know that the doctor didn't mean, "Get Prince, Michael fell in the shower and broke his tooth?" Do you really need a prayer circle for that?

Another thing is, if you are urgently being made aware that there is some kind of emergency going on and someone is yelling for the dad's kid to come,

and there you are, a full grown adult, you mean to tell me you are not going to ...

1. insist that the kid go attend to their father in this obvious urgency ...

...(and why didn't she presume it was the dad who was asking the doctor to come get the kid ... remember she claims she had no earthly idea what was going on so it could have been Michael who said to Dr. Murray, "oh God hurry go get Prince" for all she knew)



2. you mean to tell me that you are not going to ask the doctor with the greatest of urgency in your attitude whether there is anything you can do, eg., "DOCTOR, do you need me to call 911!!?!!"

Even if you would think it would be a stupid question to ask a doctor (because maybe you presume he has the whole thing under control being that he's a doctor), you might ask anyway BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST STANDING THERE SHOCKED AND SHAKEN and just to let him know you're available or to even maybe get a chance to get your curiouis ass upstairs if it seems all that serious to you

You're in a service role, and have played a very personal role in the family .... you are not going to offer to help just in case he might would say something like "yeh boil some water??!!!!!!"

Remember, she has no idea what was going on yet she asked not 1 single question. Again - - - she was, afterall, the only adult in the immediate area.

3. Now here it is, your empolyer, someone you COOK for-so that he can be HEALTHY, someone you are always doing your best to MAKE SURE you have provided what he needs to stay HEALTHY, he even [supposedly] REQUESTED you for that very reason, and his kids LOVE you ....

.... and in a HEALTH emergency, you do not feel VESTED enough in this family to at least offer some assistance to the doctor or even so much as try to go to even the bottom of the stairs or anything?? to try to get CLOSER to find out what's going on? ok, granted, maybe that's just me but that strikes me as odd to hear something's wrong (no clue what) and form a prayer circle. Someone may think it irreverant of me or disrespectful of someone's "spirituality" to suggest this and I'm sorry if it offends you but I've seen too many people do too may things in the name of "God" just to be 'convincing'.

My point is that whether you would do these things literally or something else, the things she chose to do SEEM UNNATURAL to me is all I'm saying.

4. What about the shock factor in experiencing a loss? Your employer, this person you see every day, several times a day, and the person you just saw in FULL HEALTH yesterday is DEAD today - and your FIRST reaction is you are devestasted????? What ever happened to SHOCKED???! Your first reaction was tears??? How can you be deeply saddened before you have even had time to digest/understand/wrap your mind around, what JUST happened? She keeps telling the world how sad she was and not a word about how just unbelievable it was to hear as she was driving home. Yes, people are all different ... in some ways ... but let's face it ... she had more reason to be shocked than anything else or at least this poster is not believing she skipped utter disbelief and skipped all the way to devestation. Someone may say, 'well she saw it unfold so maybe she wasn't shocked'. To that I say, no she didn't. She didn't see anything unfold. In terms of chain of emotionally charged events ...

She was cooking for him one minute

Informed something is wrong the next

and informed of his death the next

all in a matter of MINUTES

I have not once in any of her COUNTLESS interviews from tv show to tv show (to tv show....) heard her say that she found it hard to believe. Isn't denial the first stage of loss?

Fans are still to this day finding it hard to believe and they did not see him just the DAY beforehand and day in and day out just prior to that in his own home.

What am I suggesting? Nothing except I ain't buyin' this either just like nobody else is buying any of this nonesense ...

5. Here you have not only confidentiality agreements with Michael Jackson (seeing as how we know that's how he roll) and even if you have not signed any agreements, you know full well from the way you were employed (remember she said someone else interviewed her and didn't tell them MJ's name ... for OBVIOUS reasons) you have GOOD INTENTIONS toward this man and his entire family for the purpose of taking excellent care of them and when he dies, you are going to get on every news outlet KNOWN TO MAN and tell the entire world ...

1. what he ate,
2. how he ate it
3. what he said
4. what he did
5. how he interacted with his family etc. etc. (now stay with me here for a sec)

and even to the point where you are going to take the KEEPSAKES that his children gave you, to display the WORLD.

FOR WHAT PURPOSE??? Why would you exploit this young girl's good will and gift to you PERSONALLY???

Will somebody pleeeeeese tell me what POSSIBLE benefit could it be to DISPLAY private notes from the kids???

Right now its looking like to me its for the same reason as everything else she's doing to sound convincing (all that 'extra' body language, emphasis on things that don't need emphasis, at least in conversations I have with people)

Saying things that serve as conversational 'distractions' imho ... and speaking of trying to manipulate the public's viewpoint ...who is that tall man with her, speaking for her? Her publicist perhaps? Why were his last words to that reporter (outside the car before they got in), "she liked Michael Jackson". First of all, everyone with half a brain liked him, so, so what? Secondly, I didn't see anyone ask if she liked him or not. Thirdly, it looked to me like the same ole "overkill" (pardon the pun) that they do when their asses are guilty of something and they want to leave you with some kind of 'last words' so you will believe that vs. digging deeper for truth.

Ok finally the end. She says she was let go because of there being an issue of money. When the interviewer asked her who was paying her she said she didn't know. HOW COULD SHE NOT KNOW???? You are having a money dispute (oh really now ... I don't believe that either but anyway) and now it is resolved, and you have NO IDEA who's paying you. yeah ok whatever indeed ...

Another rant ... (hate when that happens) sry (just makes me wanna scream!!!)
 
Last edited:
I dont know what it is not even this video of Thanks from Dr. Murray but even before this I do not believe Dr. Murray killed or murdered Michael Jackson, I do not believe he was there when Michael died, some of you know more about that morning than I and can help me because this "Lividty" means alot in the Forensic world and Michael had it, I just have gut feeling he was hired to be the fallguy and he is. I believe Frank Dileo and Randy Phillips and other doctors where in the house when Michael died, Randy Phillips has confessed to being one of the last people seeing Michael Jackson alive when he said "he walked Michael to his car after that last rehersal", and I believe John Branca was out of the country with this suspcious Will on purpose it was all planned.
 
Back
Top