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MJ CLINICALLY DEAD Long Before Medical Help Turned Up at His LA home.

kasume said:
I agree.

A nutritionist who deals with propofol. Michael would know not to call her.


The family DID go into the house before anyone else and began removing everything. So all the investigators have to do is ASK whichever family members that went into the house, if they saw all that equipment lying around. But I would assume murray would try to hide it all.
But they may also have kept the equipment in there assuming it would help prove that something Murray did wasn't right. After all it isn't normal to have medical equipment inside a bedroom, which he OBVIOUSLY brought since he's the 'doc'.
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I was thinking that too, that Murray probably tried to hide it all, but the thing is, the family was looking in all possible hiding places for MJ's valuables, money, jewels etc. I would think they would have stumbled upon something then.

Yes, they may have kept things in place to prove that, but they knew how eccentric their brother was, and that he traveled wtih a doctor and that he was "alleged" to be on drugs, so I'm thinking that they woulnd't have suspected Murray at that point. That aspect is a bit confusing actually just like all of this to me. I suppose its certainly possible though that they just felt to leave it alone even knowing it would blow up in the press - maybe they don't think like me lol 'cause I admit, I may think a bit differently on that. I hate intrusions from outsiders and feel nothing is nobody's bidness. The family may not be the same.


I'm just wondering, couldn't Michael just have went to Dr. Kleine and asked for some propofol?? Kleine already seems like the person who will do anything for some Michael Jackson money.
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Right. Where were his Hollywood hookups?? You mean to tell me he'd call all the way to Florida to "beg" someone who probably can't help him at all, rather than go in person and "beg" his long time "friend" and doctor who according to the press, has been supplying him all along? and who, according to "reports" talked with Dr. Murray about how to administer the stuff? If he could do all that by Tuesday night, why not 2 days prior?
 
STATEofSHOCK said:
I was thinking that too, that Murray probably tried to hide it all, but the thing is, the family was looking in all possible hiding places for MJ's valuables, money, jewels etc. I would think they would have stumbled upon something then.


Right. Where were his Hollywood hookups?? You mean to tell me he'd call all the way to Florida to "beg" someone who probably can't help him at all, rather than go in person and "beg" his long time "friend" and doctor who according to the press, has been supplying him all along? and who, according to "reports" talked with Dr. Murray about how to administer the stuff? If he could do all that by Tuesday night, why not 2 days prior?
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I thought the same thing later. They probably would have stumbled across the equipment if Murray hid it. And even if he did, it would make it more suspicious for him. So might as well leave it in the out and open as if he had nothing to hide.

And it is possible the family did remove the equipment from the room. But I thought investigators found all the IV bags and stuff inside the room when they went in?? Or am I just wrong, and was it just found out by an unnamed source. It's been quite a while that I forgot.

And about the hollywood hookups, I was only thinking of Kleine but I remember on the news someone said these docs will do ANYTHING and that there's just so many. And if Michael had a lot of enablers around them, why not go to them??? That nurse deserves a ticket to the courtroom along with Murray and Kleine.

If there's ANYONE who knows what TRULY happened, it's Michael. So Michael, "What happened? Please tell us, or help us discover the truth."
 
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Victoria83 said:
No, she meant Neverland. The Arvizos said there were "no clocks at Neverland," which was ridiculous. In front of the house was a CLOCK. Analogy to "no working phones in Michael's house." Of COURSE they were.
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lol. I thought it was just a figure of speech. No phones in the house (with Murray's personal working phone). No clocks at Neverland. But there cannot be no clocks at Neverland, therefore the first statement is false.

I didn't know people ACTUALLY said there were no clocks.
 
kasume said:
lol. I thought it was just a figure of speech. No phones in the house (with Murray's personal working phone). No clocks at Neverland. But there cannot be no clocks at Neverland, therefore the first statement is false.

I didn't know people ACTUALLY said there were no clocks.
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Yup. They ACTUALLY said there were "no clocks" when asked about the timing of this or that event. That's how absurd Gavin's "case" was. Completely not credible.

Michael was very security-conscious. The idea that there would be no working phone by his bed. . . . . . is absurd. But then, Murray (through his lawyer) made many absurd statements. Such as, "I didn't know the address and that's why I couldn't use my cell-phone to call 911." WTF?
 
Victoria83 said:
Michael was very security-conscious. The idea that there would be no working phone by his bed. . . . . . is absurd. But then, Murray (through his lawyer) made many absurd statements. Such as, "I didn't know the address and that's why I couldn't use my cell-phone to call 911." WTF?
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lol. I've never heard that statement. When did they say that? That's so stupid that a lawyer is even approving a statement like that. Did a tabloid make that up? Seriously.

Call the goddam number and tell them Michael Jackson's house if you don't know. That's much quicker than 'searching' around for several minutes. What was it, thirty minutes? Twenty? Before they found a working phone.
 
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I am not buying the Propofol story at all. I cannot see Michael Jackson letting a doctor give him a dangerous drug every night without any medical equipment. He was much too smart for that...
 
8701girl said:
Umm dont u mean the home he was in now?
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no. sorry just being sarcastic. during the trial arvizos claimed there were no clocks in Neverland when they were "imprisoned" there. and now the doc claims they were no working phones

we had a CPR training today in our college. and normally we're getting paramedics to talk to students. and i came up to one of them today and asked what would say of a doc that is doing CPR on the bed with one hand and leaves the patient to call the ambulance AFTER he started doing it. she said "this doctor is not qualified to do CPR at all". i asked her whether it's possible to do CPR with one hand is a person is really fragile. she said "no way. one hand on a child and both hands on an adult. and hard surface only. doing CPR with one hand and another behind the back will only do damage". i asked how much time they have to save the brain. she said the standard is 8 minutes in New Zealand.
 
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MichaelsBlackPanther79 said:
I am not buying the Propofol story at all. I cannot see Michael Jackson letting a doctor give him a dangerous drug every night without any medical equipment. He was much too smart for that...
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I agree. At first I thought I wouldn't believe the story at all.

But the nurse said she saw oxygen tanks being carried down from up the stairs most of the time by Murray.
 
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The land line story may be true - I'm sure I read a security guards report on here stating the phones had been disconnected for some reason, however, he still had his cell so it's irrelevant whether or not the landline was working.
 
bowen9999 said:
The land line story may be true - I'm sure I read a security guards report on here stating the phones had been disconnected for some reason, however, he still had his cell so it's irrelevant whether or not the landline was working.
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were the lines disconnected only in Michael's house??? I don't understand.
 
I don't know (and I can't find the story).

About the nurse... she said Michael had requested Propofol in April. When he called her on Father's Day, it was because he was hot down one side of his body & cold down the other. I can't find any report stating that he, again, asked her for Propofol on Father's Day. The only thing that bothers me about the nurse's report is why he would phone her when he was paying the doc $150,000 p/m? Unless he had his suspicions about him...
 
bowen9999 said:
I don't know (and I can't find the story).

About the nurse... she said Michael had requested Propofol in April. When he called her on Father's Day, it was because he was hot down one side of his body & cold down the other. I can't find any report stating that he, again, asked her for Propofol on Father's Day. The only thing that bothers me about the nurse's report is why he would phone her when he was paying the doc $150,000 p/m? Unless he had his suspicions about him...
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You're exatly right.

This is all BS. I really hope the investigators are catching on to these small specifics. They are VERY important.

And when did she say he called her on Father's day. Was it on the news?
 
bowen9999 said:
I don't know (and I can't find the story).

About the nurse... she said Michael had requested Propofol in April. When he called her on Father's Day, it was because he was hot down one side of his body & cold down the other. I can't find any report stating that he, again, asked her for Propofol on Father's Day. The only thing that bothers me about the nurse's report is why he would phone her when he was paying the doc $150,000 p/m? Unless he had his suspicions about him...
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oh okay thanks for that, I have to go back and listen to her again, but I agree that if he had a doctor what could possibly be the reason for him to call her after 3 months?

Her Diprivan story is still not sitting right simply because I can't see where she was in a position to have it at all if she's not in the surgical arena. She didn't even know what it was and had to call and ask a doctor! Maybe he didn't beg her for it, maybe that's where we're getting our facts wrong. It would make things make more sense. I'm gonna go back and watch it again when I get time.
 
Well, that's wierd. The nurse has GOT to be lying then. Like you said, Michael had Murray working for him then.

STATEofSHOCK said:
Maybe he didn't beg her for it, maybe that's where we're getting our facts wrong. It would make things make more sense.
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Firpo Carr, a personal friend of the Jackson family, stated many times on the news that "Michael Jackson doesn't beg for anything."

Even I found it wierd myself when first hearing the news that he was begging. I thought, she can't be serious. I believe that the word BEGGING was just used, and sooo much it was used, to make the public believe that he really is a drug addict afterwards, cause everyone involved knew that s*** was coming. Because that's what drug addicts do, they beg for drugs. SET UP!!
 
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kasume said:
Well, that's wierd. The nurse has GOT to be lying then. Like you said, Michael had Murray working for him then.



Firpo Carr, a personal friend of the Jackson family, stated many times on the news that "Michael Jackson doesn't beg for anything."

Even I found it wierd myself when first hearing the news that he was begging. I thought, she can't be serious. I believe that the word BEGGING was just used, and sooo much it was used, to make the public believe that he really is a drug addict afterwards, cause everyone involved knew that s*** was coming. Because that's what drug addicts do, they beg for drugs. SET UP!!
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This may be a BINGO. They started running with that "drug addict theory" from DAY 1 and has people on that line of reasoning, probably intentionally. I know we have troups who will be checking to find out which media outlets certain owners of AEG have control over.

We will be keeping our eyes open, as always that's for sure. There're too many THINKING fans from ALL OVER THE WORLD everyone noticing the same madness.

As for the details as we splice this all together, whether we're "right", or whether we're "wrong" at any given time, one thing we know for sure, something is going on, that much we ALL know because its so clear, as with all the other crazinesses that have occurred when the devil starts acting up where MJ is concerned.

As I said in another thread, we may not be seeing clearly through the smoke, but we can see there is a smokescreen somewhere because there's so much smoke, and a few mirrors I might add and we all seem to be trying to 'make out' what we're seeing exactly. But I feel it won't be too long before some smoke starts to clear and we'll be seeing a bit more clearly by and by.

Y'all keep those corrections and good ole observations coming!! They can't stop the army of love from crashing through this none sense, whatever it is.
 
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bowen9999 said:
I don't know (and I can't find the story).

About the nurse... she said Michael had requested Propofol in April. When he called her on Father's Day, it was because he was hot down one side of his body & cold down the other. I can't find any report stating that he, again, asked her for Propofol on Father's Day. The only thing that bothers me about the nurse's report is why he would phone her when he was paying the doc $150,000 p/m? Unless he had his suspicions about him...
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i dont understand. why Michael would call somebody in another state to say that? if he was suspicious, wouldnt it be easier to fire him and hire another one? talk to someone you trust. like your mother. because if you're suspicious of your doctor, it's serious. if you are not suspicious why calling a nutriotionist?

i remember reading about Michael studying medical books and anathomy before, so he knew something at least. it wasnt that he didnt have any idea about how a human body works. "cold one side, hot on the other" can indicate a heart attack. it means the heart is blocked somewhere and the blood doesnt circulate to the side that is cold. it's basics.

Michael is a great reader, he would have known that. I remember reading that he even was going to see doctors operate the patients. I cannot imagine him feeling like that (hot and cold) and saying to himself "ok, let's wait and see what happens". He would have insisted on the hospital then. He's not a fool as they try to make him look.

If she said that about "feeling cold and hot" - could it have been a hint to investigators to go in the direction of his heart problems? but havent they found his heart healthy during the authopsy?
 
STATEofSHOCK said:
We will be keeping our eyes open, as always that's for sure. There're too many THINKING fans from ALL OVER THE WORLD everyone noticing the same madness.

As for the details as we splice this all together, whether we're "right", or whether we're "wrong" at any given time, one thing we know for sure, something is going on, that much we ALL know because its so clear, as with all the other crazinesses that have occurred when the devil starts acting up where MJ is concerned.
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I said before, there are dark forces surrounding this investigation trying to keep the truth hidden.

And I believe Michael needs his fans to come together more than ever. "There's nothing that can't be done, if we raise our voice as one." We can find the truth.

I cannot imagine him feeling like that (hot and cold) and saying to himself "ok, let's wait and see what happens". He would have insisted on the hospital then. He's not a fool as they try to make him look.

If she said that about "feeling cold and hot" - could it have been a hint to investigators to go in the direction of his heart problems? but havent they found his heart healthy during the authopsy?
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That's true. To me, it sounded so stupid. I'm hot on one side, cold on the other. Gosh, I can't go to sleep because of it. I guess I'll call up the nurse and ask for some propofol to make me sleep. Michael must be one crazy retard. But no, he is not and we all know that.

And of course that's easy for her to say since Michael is not here to rebuke them, that he wasn't feeling hot and cold at the same time. Anyone can say anything now that he's not here. Hell, I could say I slept with him. He's not here to say otherwise.
 
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I said before, there are dark forces surrounding this investigation trying to keep the truth hidden.

And I believe Michael needs his fans to come together more than ever. "There's nothing that can't be done, if we raise our voice as one." We can find the truth.
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Absolutely.

I've noticed even people who are not self proclaimed "fans" have been asking some of the same questions. Why, because nothing makes sense period, to anyone. The only thing the media have going in their favor is that people who don't question things will buy their rush-to-judgement theories because they know they have that "brain washing" power but there are many people, quiet as its kept, who question EVERYTHING and fortunately many of them are self-avowed fans and supporters of Michael Jackson and his family and his legacy. That's why we've got to donate to this community, so we can stay in this one place without having to create another (again). Just a lil plug for the site, but y'all let's join the "Friends of MJJ Community" club by pleding and paying only 5.00 to ensure an easier present and long future for MJJC. OK that's it :D I'm done.

CatherineNZ said:
i dont understand. why Michael would call somebody in another state to say that? if he was suspicious, wouldnt it be easier to fire him and hire another one? talk to someone you trust. like your mother. because if you're suspicious of your doctor, it's serious. if you are not suspicious why calling a nutriotionist?

i remember reading about Michael studying medical books and anathomy before, so he knew something at least. it wasnt that he didnt have any idea about how a human body works. "cold one side, hot on the other" can indicate a heart attack. it means the heart is blocked somewhere and the blood doesnt circulate to the side that is cold. it's basics.

Michael is a great reader, he would have known that. I remember reading that he even was going to see doctors operate the patients. I cannot imagine him feeling like that (hot and cold) and saying to himself "ok, let's wait and see what happens". He would have insisted on the hospital then. He's not a fool as they try to make him look.

If she said that about "feeling cold and hot" - could it have been a hint to investigators to go in the direction of his heart problems? but havent they found his heart healthy during the authopsy?
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Excellent points imho. I'm not sure about the heart things being uninformed, some doctor said something about it being nervous system related, one of the "talking heads" as I recall when the nutritionist first came out with this, none-the-less .... more to the point - yes - why would he call HER, period if he were having that symptom. He's a reader, he's paying attention, researching all the time as he told Geraldo, everyone says he is extremely well read, he made that clear in his early interviews as well, WHY would he do something like call a nutritionist and one he hasn't talked to in 3 months? PLUS he has a resident PHYSICIAN. Something is amiss there.
 
This gets more confusing every day.

I am just wondering; how incompetent as a coctor can Murray be, if he do not know that in most cases the autopsy will state the time of death, and the cause? Especially if there is a drug overdose of some kind.

I know he has shown incompetence in how he reacted in terms of CPR etc...considering he was a cardelogist, its even stranger.

I think that when we finally hear the coroners report we will be surprised, because right now it seems that everyone assume that the drug addiction theory is the right one and that Michael was in bas shape and would never have been able to go through with the conserts. What if that is not the truth?
Still, I think that we are in for some major surprises when the investigation is over, and the results are published. For some reason, all the confusion and the wide variety of stories atm, gives me a gut feeling that there is something else in this story that we have yet not understood.
The truth is either going to be far simpler then we think, or its going to be far more complex then our imagination could ever come up with.
 
If the autopsy comes out the way I'm expecting it to, lots of folks will be shocked. I just don't believe he was an addict like that... :huh: And if in fact they even say how much we weigh, then what do we make of fans' "accounts" of how sickly he looked?
 
krism said:
also im a bit puzzled by something, when someone dies the bladder empties. likewise if it was a massive drug overdose like some have claimed with pills then there could have been vomitting because often a person vomits up the contents of their stomach even if they have regularly used pills. i remember reading reports that the scene had been cleaned up and there were reports that argued which room he had actually been in. so i definitely think theres more going on. hopefully when this goes to court (which im pretty sure it will) it will clear up some questions
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Don't know if you saw that picture a couple of Sundays ago in the News of the World newspaper that claimed to have the photo of the room/ bed where Michael died and in the pic there was an incontinence pad of the bed. Well if the bladder automatically empties then perhaps that's what the pad was covering.
 
Totally off point but I'm guessing MJ's kids were allowed in his bedroom (I've read the staff were not allowed upstairs), does anyone know what they were told all that medical equipment was for?
 
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