Dateline NBC tonight, 9pm E.T with Rabbi Boteach's tapes

[Angel]

this is just making me really mad and sad at once. i dont know which to feel.

^ My feelings too. And i love your signature, where is that video from, i don't think I've ever seen it before...

Anyway, I know Schmuley doesn't deserve the attention but I would still like to hear the tapes... it's Mike's voice, the parts that aren't cut off or edited are very interesting, I've always wanted to know how he thinks... even though it pained me to hear the bit about growing old...:no:
I've missed some parts apparently though, i didn't hear anything about LMP... Are these available to hear anywhere? Or is there a rerun or dateline?

 

[butterflies]

I don't understand why you guys are so worked up over this. I knew the fake rabbi would not do him justice. I also knew, it was his words that MJ authorized the release of these tapes, without ever showing proof of it.
I called for people to boycott the show, out of respect for MJ and the further injustice his legacy & name were about to be submitted.

Obviously everyone wanted to "hear MJ".

That is the hypocrisy I have noticed among MJ fans, taking ish about tabloids and the press all while being a willing participant. What were you expecting???

Quit asking when it will stop, because as long as people keep supporting the "demonization" of Michael Jackson, it will not stop.

I didn't watch it at all. I only read about it on here. I can't watch him.

 

[vargak]

that is what I dont get either...why turn on the rabbi when he is giving most people a gift...a gift of looking behind a mask...
I am looking forward to my copy of this book arriving in the post

 

[lulu]

Please tell me, what exactly Michael says about LMP?

 

[loveyoumore]

Ugh. I wish I hadn't heard those clips. They make Michael sound mean and vindictive.

If Michael knew right away that Madonna wasn't the type of person he wanted to be around, then why did he hang out with her numerous times and then say these mean things about her years later? Even if she did say something about him in the press (I have never heard her say anything bad about him, and the only thing I've seen so far in this thread was that she might have commented on his kiss with Lisa Marie Presley on Mtv), he should still have known better than to speak ill of another artist. Him saying those things about how she was just jealous of his fame makes him sound completely vain. That's a side of Michael I've never seen before, and I didn't know existed.

I guess what bothers me the most is that so many posters in this thread are laughing about his comments towards her. Michael fans are usually so protective and hate other people criticizing him, so why would they do that to another artist? Just because she was outspoken and provocative doesn't mean she wasn't classy, there are many people (such as myself) who grew up looking up to her. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I really don't appreciate the nastiness. :no:

 

[big DB]

short snippets from convos, edited to appear a certain way. Tabloid trash

 

[loveyoumore]

He was extremely critical of a certain type of women. He felt women manipulated men with sex. Don't get upset ladies. Think about his state of mind. That's what he saw from the early age of five. Strippers taking money from men. Groupies will have sex with you for fame and fortune. His dad a married man even having sex with these groupies. His sister in laws trying to break up the group. Those were his images.

What about his mother who he compares to Mother Theresa? Or Tatum O'Neal? Diana Ross? Elizabeth Taylor? He obviously had many positive female figures in his life. Every person alive (except for Buddhist monks maybe) is capable of being manipulative and materialistic, male or female.

Don't forget that Michael was always surrounded by beautiful "it" girls throughout most of his life. If he said that he didn't like most girls, but Princess Diana was his type, then he obviously prized beauty, grace, and conservativeness. I'm guessing that most girls didn't live up to his ideals, and that sooner or later all the women in his life disappointed him, which is why he held these bitter views towards women. Not every woman is a Princess Diana or an Audrey Hepburn.

 

[Blackcat]

Ok if Michael wanted this book to be published...why didn't it happen????
This is so wrong.

 

[StarSecret]

What about his mother who he compares to Mother Theresa? Or Tatum O'Neal? Diana Ross? Elizabeth Taylor? He obviously had many positive female figures in his life. Every person alive (except for Buddhist monks maybe) is capable of being manipulative and materialistic, male or female.

Don't forget that Michael was always surrounded by beautiful "it" girls throughout most of his life. If he said that he didn't like most girls, but Princess Diana was his type, then he obviously prized beauty, grace, and conservativeness. I'm guessing that most girls didn't live up to his ideals, and that sooner or later all the women in his life disappointed him, which is why he held these bitter views towards women. Not every woman is a Princess Diana or an Audrey Hepburn.

I agree with you to be honest. I'm not saying it's bad to have standards by any means, but sometimes there's a point where no one will ever be good enough - even if you do find someone lovely, they'll crumble under the pressure of the image they're meant to to fit or you'll find something that isn't comparable with the allure of the fantasy woman. Michael expected nothing less than perfection from himself, I think he may have applied this to his potential partners. I'm not surprised he loved Diana, she was the epitome of grace and class but there's also one key factor - it was pretty much NEVER going to happen. She could always be perfect that way. I really hope I haven't offended anyone with this. It's just my personal theory, take or leave it

That said, I find Schmuley abhorrent and agree that these tapes should NOT be public!! What makes it worse is his pretence of good will. It's so condescending to us fans, and just plain offensive to his family!! Grrr!! Angry fan.

 

[vargak]

Ok if Michael wanted this book to be published...why didn't it happen????
This is so wrong.

cos Bashir came into the picture thats why...
and MJ thought Bashir will help get this out by doing a fair docmentary...
we all know what happened...

 

[snowhite]

back then in 2001 he was going through a difficult time and if he sounded more depressed it's because of that, we all know the Invincible era was not his best he just seemes so tired...but that was 9 years ago!
and I don't get it what does he say about women that is so bad? he didn't like the "Dirty Diana" type I think fans already knew that, and my opinion is that he always remained a bit naive when it came to women and just naive in general, that's why he remained fixated with the likes of Brooke and Lisa
but Brooke was a coward and turned her back oh him in 1993, and Lisa she wanted to take a free ride and see "what's it like to be married to a superstar bigger than her" I always thought she saw how naive he is and simply used him because she knew she never really wanted to have kids with him

don't forget when your read the book that the rabbi will edit everything to make it look a certain way, please don't let yourself be fooled by him. please people don't be stupid!

 

[LoveMJackson]

I just watched the whole show.

You know, from one side I think its terrible to expose the private thoughts of Michael to the world..but Rabbi Boteach says that Michael wanted the world to know and hear everything, do you guys believe him? And from the other side, people who don't know Michael so well and have negative thoughts about him can learn more about his hard life and maybe try to understand him.. I don't know what to think.

And wow..brooke shields was one of the love of his life? I wonder what he said about Lisa?

 

[StarSecret]

Listening to it over the past few days, I think Give In To Me was about Brooke... these tapes really reinforce that possibility in my mind. Especially seeing how he says he wished she could have loved him as much as he loved her. It must have been frustrating and heart breaking,

What did he say about Lisa? Does anyone know?

 

[Irish Flower]

Don't understand the fuss. Nothing new relating to Madonna during that time period. It's always the same with fans. Madonna herself was obsessed by fame and needed the adulation of fans. She said that herself in later years. Michael had already realised that about himself. It was said at that time, that she wanted to take him to strip bars, gay bars and change his wardrobe. Michael wasn't going to be a puppet or a new plaything to her. He wasn't interested in doing that. Is he not allowed his own likes and dislikes just like her. She wasn't able to be a friend at that time. Today it may have been different but then no. And a Rabbi's opinions interwoven with Michael's words is not the full picture or context of what he is saying either. He is not around to defend himself. I am sure he had some different views and opinions in 2009. But yet again everybody reacts to those using Michael in his death. Fans just react to all the salicious headlines and soundbites. Yes Michael you are in a better place that is for sure. At least no one can hurt him now. He doesn't have to listen to all this crap.

 

[StarSecret]

Don't understand the fuss. Nothing new relating to Madonna during that time period. It's always the same with fans. Madonna herself was obsessed by fame and needed the adulation of fans. She said that herself in later years. Michael had already realised that about himself. It was said at that time, that she wanted to take him to strip bars, gay bars and change his wardrobe. Michael wasn't going to be a puppet or a new plaything to her. He wasn't interested in doing that. Is he not allowed his own likes and dislikes just like her. She wasn't able to be a friend at that time. Today it may have been different but then no. And a Rabbi's opinions interwoven with Michael's words is not the full picture or context of what he is saying either. He is not around to defend himself. I am sure he had some different views and opinions in 2009. But yet again everybody reacts to those using Michael in his death. Fans just react to all the salicious headlines and soundbites. Yes Michael you are in a better place that is for sure. At least no one can hurt him now. He doesn't have to listen to all this crap.

That's so true! Spot on! The media are taking these tapes as Michael's definitve view of everything. His outlook would changed significantly since these were recorded.

 

[Gaiaschild]

The Rabbi is seeking to make $$$$$$ from these tapes and book. and seeking to tarnish Michael's reputation ie by making out he supports Hitler, and he was on drugs and wanted to die, so they can turn homicide into suicide.

Those tapes are private, they are years old and there is no way Michael would have wanted those publicised, poor Michael he probably trusted the rabbi at the time, his fault was he trusted people too much those tapes were taped as part of counselling process, it is normal to tape. I don't think this means Michael wanted them public. Rabbi also stole 100.000 dollars from heal the world foundation and on another tape Michael had a handwritten list of people out to harm him and rabbi schumely,Uri Geller, Mottola and Tom Sneddon, were on that list, which must have been some time around the trials.


How are his children going to feel when they hear these tapes of the abuse of Michael and the way there father's image is being tainted in the future. There is no respect for Michael at all, it is all about money as usual.


Why no mention of all the charitable work Michael did and his millions donations to charity and airlifting tonnes of supplies to war torn countries, or helping sick children and visiting orphanages. Because it doesn't fit the image they want to portray of Michael. Natural healing methods with visualisation techniques for cancer are done by lots of people, ie is like prayer, it doesn't mean he thought he was messiah, as rabbi is painting, he just saw that it helped lots of children get better, and Gavin Ariviso got better from 4th stage cancer which is very rare.

 

[CarinaT]

Ugh. I wish I hadn't heard those clips. They make Michael sound mean and vindictive.

If Michael knew right away that Madonna wasn't the type of person he wanted to be around, then why did he hang out with her numerous times and then say these mean things about her years later? Even if she did say something about him in the press (I have never heard her say anything bad about him, and the only thing I've seen so far in this thread was that she might have commented on his kiss with Lisa Marie Presley on Mtv), he should still have known better than to speak ill of another artist. Him saying those things about how she was just jealous of his fame makes him sound completely vain. That's a side of Michael I've never seen before, and I didn't know existed.

I don't know why you ever thought that. Of course it existed. He's human. And it's not like he made these comments publicly on TV like many classless people do.
Who doesn't rant a bit or speak ill about other people, a fellow colleague, sibling or a fellow artist behind the scenes? Give him a break, I'm sure he 'spoke nasty' in private about people or things he didn't like - just like all of us do.
Sounds a bit like you're falling for the "mean and vindictive" thing...

 

[Vaneela_w]

I really don't get what this man thinks he's doing by releasing these tapes after all this time and especially after Michael's death. I think it's despicable what he's doing while at the same time pretending he was Michael's friend. Maybe he was at some point, but I don't think they were so close over the last years.
If anything, he's showing Michael in a negative light and influencing the public, because the negative things will stick more in the public's mind than the good things about him. I never thought Michael was a saint, and this does not change my general opinion of him. Despite all he went through in his life, I still think he remained a good person. When bad things happen to people, of course they become bitter and wary of all the people around them. However, Michael still preserved a part of his innocence, naivity and kindness, and I truly admire him for that.
I still hate that these tapes are being released and I'm sure 100% Michael wouldn't want them released now. And this guy is just a mean spirited man with nothing better to do with his life...:cheeky:

 

[X_AGNES_X]

Ugh. I wish I hadn't heard those clips. They make Michael sound mean and vindictive.

If Michael knew right away that Madonna wasn't the type of person he wanted to be around, then why did he hang out with her numerous times and then say these mean things about her years later? Even if she did say something about him in the press (I have never heard her say anything bad about him, and the only thing I've seen so far in this thread was that she might have commented on his kiss with Lisa Marie Presley on Mtv), he should still have known better than to speak ill of another artist. Him saying those things about how she was just jealous of his fame makes him sound completely vain. That's a side of Michael I've never seen before, and I didn't know existed.

he's only a human . everyone has the moment of disliking someone
remember its a private conversation
i don't think he intended to make it public (at least not the comment he made on Madonna )
this is the thing we shouldn't ever hear about.

 

[snowhite]

Ugh. I wish I hadn't heard those clips. They make Michael sound mean and vindictive.

If Michael knew right away that Madonna wasn't the type of person he wanted to be around, then why did he hang out with her numerous times and then say these mean things about her years later? Even if she did say something about him in the press (I have never heard her say anything bad about him, and the only thing I've seen so far in this thread was that she might have commented on his kiss with Lisa Marie Presley on Mtv), he should still have known better than to speak ill of another artist. Him saying those things about how she was just jealous of his fame makes him sound completely vain. That's a side of Michael I've never seen before, and I didn't know existed.

I guess what bothers me the most is that so many posters in this thread are laughing about his comments towards her. Michael fans are usually so protective and hate other people criticizing him, so why would they do that to another artist? Just because she was outspoken and provocative doesn't mean she wasn't classy, there are many people (such as myself) who grew up looking up to her. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I really don't appreciate the nastiness. :no:

ARE YOU SERIOUS? after all the sh*t people put Michael through you're going to criticize him? and Madonna do you know anything about her? saying she's a nasty witch was one of the nicest things he could've said about her lol
she was "outspoken and provocative"? no she practically harassed him, and she wanted to do some pretty creepy stuff with him in that video they were planning together, god knows what she wanted to do further with him...maybe put him in her Sex book? lol.. seriously she scares me too

 

[lulu]

he's only a human . everyone has the moment of disliking someone
remember its a private conversation
i don't think he intended to make it public (at least not the comment he made on Madonna )
this is the thing we shouldn't ever hear about.

That`s true....
Oh my God...

Noone cant`t go into somoone`s brain and know everything. There must be a space for your own...
He`s gone now.. He just need a peace..he just need to remember his music, his great performing and love him.
It hurt me...

 

[tragickingdom]

Ugh. I wish I hadn't heard those clips. They make Michael sound mean and vindictive.

If Michael knew right away that Madonna wasn't the type of person he wanted to be around, then why did he hang out with her numerous times and then say these mean things about her years later? Even if she did say something about him in the press (I have never heard her say anything bad about him, and the only thing I've seen so far in this thread was that she might have commented on his kiss with Lisa Marie Presley on Mtv), he should still have known better than to speak ill of another artist. Him saying those things about how she was just jealous of his fame makes him sound completely vain. That's a side of Michael I've never seen before, and I didn't know existed.

Maybe Michael thought Madonna would be like her 80s era self (the Madonna that I personally liked) and not be the bad girl, controversal, sexually explicit Madonna from that Erotica era that some of her fans like myself care to forget.

 

[ensleyave]

What about his mother who he compares to Mother Theresa? Or Tatum O'Neal? Diana Ross? Elizabeth Taylor? He obviously had many positive female figures in his life. Every person alive (except for Buddhist monks maybe) is capable of being manipulative and materialistic, male or female.

Don't forget that Michael was always surrounded by beautiful "it" girls throughout most of his life. If he said that he didn't like most girls, but Princess Diana was his type, then he obviously prized beauty, grace, and conservativeness. I'm guessing that most girls didn't live up to his ideals, and that sooner or later all the women in his life disappointed him, which is why he held these bitter views towards women. Not every woman is a Princess Diana or an Audrey Hepburn.

Maybe, that is the type of woman he is looking for. Janet fits the description of that dignified, caring and tomboy. He could not find that type. Also, he said he was very hard to be married to, because he liked helping so many people that sometimes his wife LMP could not understand that. He wanted a mate, but the kind that could believe in him and do the things he felt were important. He said at that time he doesn't know if he is disciplined enough to be married, because he likes to move around a lot and most women like to be stable. To may he sounds like a wonderful mate. He will let you do you, as long as you let him be who he is. He was not into cheating, so you didn't have to worry about that. He was a free spirit that felt peoples pain especially sick and helpless children.

 

[ensleyave]

LMP did not live at Neverland. He lived with her in the city. He loved her and she promised him they were going to have kids together before that got married. He said that was the first thing they were going to work on. She then changed her mind after they were married. He said it broke his heart. After they were divorced, she continued to hang out with MJ's mother writing letters to him saying she loves him and will have his kids as many as he wants, but his heart was hardened toward her and it was to late. He still kept in contact with her for many many years up until the time of the recordings. He did not have anything really bad to say about her. I think he loved her. They would argue about him being responsible for trying to help so many sick kids. He said she even hung up the phone on a sick girl that called the home. He also said she was mainly concerned for her kids and others were not his or their responsibility. That was a big disagreement amongst them.

Oh yeah, as I posted earlier Madonna was too sexually explicit for him. That was not his type and she did say some bad things about him to the press allegedly. I remember it was printed if it is true she said MJ wore more makeup than she did among some other things.

 

[lulu]

LMP did not live at Neverland. He lived with her in the city. He loved her and she promised him they were going to have kids together before that got married. He said that was the first thing they were going to work on. She then changed her mind after they were married. He said it broke his heart. After they were divorced, she continued to hang out with MJ's mother writing letters to him saying she loves him and will have his kids as many as he wants, but his heart was hardened toward her and it was to late. He still kept in contact with her for many many years up until the time of the recordings. He did not have anything really bad to say about her. I think he loved her. They would argue about him being responsible for trying to help so many sick kids. He said she even hung up the phone on a sick girl that called the home. He also said she was mainly concerned for her kids and others were not his or their responsibility. That was a big disagreement amongst them.

Oh yeah, as I posted earlier Madonna was too sexually explicit for him. That was not his type and she did say some bad things about him to the press allegedly. I remember it was printed if it is true she said MJ wore more makeup than she did among some other things.

Thaks for post this. I`ve waited for this. I think that Michael loved LMP,and she loved him. They just can`t find the same language.

 

[ensleyave]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? after all the sh*t people put Michael through you're going to criticize him? and Madonna do you know anything about her? saying she's a nasty witch was one of the nicest things he could've said about her lol
she was "outspoken and provocative"? no she practically harassed him, and she wanted to do some pretty creepy stuff with him in that video they were planning together, god knows what she wanted to do further with him...maybe put him in her Sex book? lol.. seriously she scares me too

In the book, he said paraphasing here she told him what they were and were not going to do or go. She wanted to remake him. She was too sexually agressive. She would be mean to his fans if they wanted an autograph even if the fans were children. She would tell them to go away. She would call him up at and she would say that she is putting her fingers between he legs. He would say Madonna PLEASE. She would say I want you to rub yourself and think of me. When he would see her again she would say this is the finger I used last night. She would show him books of women in bondage. He just did not like that. He was a romantic. He felt there should be some mystery in a relationship and marriage. So it doesn't get boring. He felt couples shouldn't spend every moment together so you can miss one another. He also thought a relationship should be innocent and not do everything and anything with your bodies. He does contradict himself somewhat. We all do don't we.
He was HUMAN HUMAN HUMAN. I am still a fan.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

In the book, he said paraphasing here she told him what they were and were not going to do or go. She wanted to remake him. She was too sexually agressive. She would be mean to his fans if they wanted an autograph even if the fans were children. She would tell them to go away. She would call him up at and she would say that she is putting her fingers between he legs. He would say Madonna PLEASE. She would say I want you to rub yourself and think of me. When he would see her again she would say this is the finger I used last night. She would show him books of women in bondage. He just did not like that. He was a romantic. He felt there should be some mystery in a relationship and marriage. So it doesn't get boring. He felt couples shouldn't spend every moment together so you can miss one another. He also thought a relationship should be innocent and not do everything and anything with your bodies. He does contradict himself somewhat. We all do don't we.
He was HUMAN HUMAN HUMAN. I am still a fan.

a man after my own heart. you know i have loved this man for 20 years, i doubt anything that comes out now or in the future will not diminish my love for him.
anyone willing to see michael as a human being and not god can and will still continue to love and cherish his life and his memory.
he was truly a one of a kind man. i think his life, values, style, interests are more in line with earlier generation. our society is too sexual and in a sense a loss of innocence.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

Ugh. I wish I hadn't heard those clips. They make Michael sound mean and vindictive.

If Michael knew right away that Madonna wasn't the type of person he wanted to be around, then why did he hang out with her numerous times and then say these mean things about her years later? Even if she did say something about him in the press (I have never heard her say anything bad about him, and the only thing I've seen so far in this thread was that she might have commented on his kiss with Lisa Marie Presley on Mtv), he should still have known better than to speak ill of another artist. Him saying those things about how she was just jealous of his fame makes him sound completely vain. That's a side of Michael I've never seen before, and I didn't know existed.

I guess what bothers me the most is that so many posters in this thread are laughing about his comments towards her. Michael fans are usually so protective and hate other people criticizing him, so why would they do that to another artist? Just because she was outspoken and provocative doesn't mean she wasn't classy, there are many people (such as myself) who grew up looking up to her. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I really don't appreciate the nastiness. :no:

i am sorry you are upset by this. If Michael said Madonna was jealous of him.... I would believe him.
the alternative as you wrote is to because MJ was this VAIN man. He wasn't. I mean with all the she said about him the worst he called madonna was a Nasty Witch? Jealous?
He had feelings too, does his humanity and his feelings count for anything.

 

[dearmichael1]

Ugh. I wish I hadn't heard those clips. They make Michael sound mean and vindictive.

If Michael knew right away that Madonna wasn't the type of person he wanted to be around, then why did he hang out with her numerous times and then say these mean things about her years later? Even if she did say something about him in the press (I have never heard her say anything bad about him, and the only thing I've seen so far in this thread was that she might have commented on his kiss with Lisa Marie Presley on Mtv), he should still have known better than to speak ill of another artist. Him saying those things about how she was just jealous of his fame makes him sound completely vain. That's a side of Michael I've never seen before, and I didn't know existed.

I guess what bothers me the most is that so many posters in this thread are laughing about his comments towards her. Michael fans are usually so protective and hate other people criticizing him, so why would they do that to another artist? Just because she was outspoken and provocative doesn't mean she wasn't classy, there are many people (such as myself) who grew up looking up to her. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I really don't appreciate the nastiness. :no:

Are u serious. he spoke of another person , like you put it in private. All the shit ppl have said about him for YEARS, you are condemning him for it. WHAT? Don't tell me you dont talk about other people in the privacy of your own home, especially when they talk bad about you . I know I do. Its human nature. That doesn't take away from who he is. He still comes across as the sweet caring Michael, but human too. This man had been Judge and ridiculed for years , from folks in the industry and the press. And no one defended him, but when he defends himself he is vindictive. Sorry but you sound just like these people out there. You may have only heard Madonna say one bad thing about Michael but other people have heard many. And like Michael said on those tapes after they went out SHE WROTE SOME MEAN THINGS ABOUT HIM SO HE CALLED A A NAST WITCH. I think that was FUNNY AS HELL

And as far as Madonna being class. I think most of the population in the world didn't view her as that. Most people thought she was trashy and a Hoe. Not just Michael. Myself and everyone that I know.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

What about his mother who he compares to Mother Theresa? Or Tatum O'Neal? Diana Ross? Elizabeth Taylor? He obviously had many positive female figures in his life. Every person alive (except for Buddhist monks maybe) is capable of being manipulative and materialistic, male or female.

Don't forget that Michael was always surrounded by beautiful "it" girls throughout most of his life. If he said that he didn't like most girls, but Princess Diana was his type, then he obviously prized beauty, grace, and conservativeness. I'm guessing that most girls didn't live up to his ideals, and that sooner or later all the women in his life disappointed him, which is why he held these bitter views towards women. Not every woman is a Princess Diana or an Audrey Hepburn.

I think Liz and Princess Diana has a lot in common. They were / are two of the most charitable women. Liz has been at the forefront of the fight against AIDS for decades. Princess Diana, the causes and people she touched through her work is probably something that attracted her to MJ. Not just her looks.

He doesn't seem bitter about women. He needed ...
a woman that was not out for fame and fortune but was out for love
a woman that would love him unconditionally and not judge or ridicule him.
a woman that would live in luxury and travel the world curing and helping the most destitute children
a woman that was beautiful but not overtly sexual.
he doesn't seem bitter to me.