AllForMJ
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Hi MJJ7777! Welcome to the thread and glad you are enjoying it!
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Its great because this is a discussion thread. This is what it is for. Sometimes disagreements occur in discussions.
It happens in beauty parlors and barber shops all over the world.
On this board, and especially this thread, its only ALL about L.O.V.E. expressed in different ways from different perspectives.
Keep it going.
Don't stop til you get enough, and with L.O.V.E. that can never happen.
It happens in beauty parlors and barber shops all over the world.
On this board, and especially this thread, its only ALL about L.O.V.E. expressed in different ways from different perspectives.
Keep it going.
Don't stop til you get enough, and with L.O.V.E. that can never happen.
Asedora
Guests
I do not see anything "great" about this person being ignorant and rude.
This is what she said and it looks totally ignorant:
Pls everybody tell me where did I say that i WANT this thread to be closed? This person probably has no sense of humor.
This is not a first time she is attaking me. For some reason she doesn't like any my opinions or there are some other issues I am not aware of. Who cares.... . I put her on ignore list. I am sick and tired of it.
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ah Asedora, AllforMJ
what I'm saying is, its ALL about LOVE, it really is. Everyone is here because we love, first of all, this guy named Michael Jackson, yes we see he is a consummate artist, and we also see he is a GUY we love, SO much, so that's all it is, is everyone expressing that love for the man and the artist in the ways we know how in this thread. As far as rudeness goes, its once aqain, imho, the difference between biting one's tongue and being frank. It just means it was pointed, not fluffed. She felt you used the word, 'closed' because if it were not in your mind, you would not have used it. Its like how the subconscious mind can't distinguish between a joke and the truth, if you tell it something it goes into a consciousness of creation and that is what AllforMJ does not want to have happen by your bringing it up, the way I see it, however, I can also see how you would feel it was rude since you were the one she was being quite frank with, but I do not see it as being all that serious is all I'm saying. Maybe if my ego was attacked I might, but as it is, from an objective perspective, I'm just saying, its not all that serious.
I believe that AllforMJ gets frustrated when people seem to act like they don't get her main point, which is that MJ was in love as he told us himself from his own selection and creation of his own music for his own albums. It is debated about This Is It in some circles, and I personally do not go along with the explanation offerred the world by Sony because it doens't make sense but people do not ask questions and accept whatever comes over the wire. People spend hours in conference rooms trying to come up with just what to tell the public, even if there was a reason directly from MJ himself, so I'm just saying, AllforMJ is asking us to let Michael "speak for himself" through his music. I feel for that point to be acknowledged would be helpful for anyone posting in the thread because when it is not, it is a wee bit off topic imho.
The question is Did MJ Find Love In The Dark. The song that originally started the discussion back in '07 was Someone In The Dark, where MJ is singing about a friend, a "Ben" type friend, who started out as a stranger who was an answer to a prayer, which kept him going through all the years of difficulty, all the lonliness, the vitiligo, the many pressures brought to him by his astronomical success. He made songs that indicated that "she" had connected with that lonliness and he ended up feeling abandoned by her and he didn't know why she "left". He later realized he was not alone and that "she" was still "with" him although they were "far apart". He felt some things were his fault so he wanted One More Chance and he got it. When he did, he realized that the person in his heart was indeed REAL.
It had been pointed out then that he placed Ben on the Number Ones CD out of sequence and the Live version, as an indication, a communication, a big hint for "her" to understand that is was "her" that One More Chance was about or at least it was what I noticed.
The answer to Did MJFLITD was answered over and over as many songs were examined. This explanation is to bring you and others who are relatively new to the topic, up to speed that this could be the reason AllforMJ is not very tolerant of someone posting in the thread who seems to keep veering off the points that have already been established and I'm just taking a chance on filling you in and if you already knew this then perhaps there are others who didn't. jm2cw
Its great because at the end of the day it all boils down to El Oh Vee Eeeeeee :heart:
If we could all simply give some praises to a thing called LOVE we will all be alright. Just say yes, I acknowledge love ... and all will be continually well. jmho
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I do have to say, if you followed AllforMJ's posts over the years you'd know that its pretty unfair to think of AllforMJ as being like the media but its mostly hilarious omy goodness LOL!!
I hope everybody is calmer at least. Discussions are great, we just have to be willing sometimes to say things in a discussion board that we say to others in our daily lives. Things like, "oh hay, I didn't know that", or, "what exactly do you mean" (i think we've gotten pretty good with that one) and things like, "oh I'm sorry, I misunderstood" (which is easy to do communicating in text-only)
I'm not trying to completely abandon y'all's little (MJ)- lovers spat but as a comic relief I have posted this clip from the IJCSLY rehearsal.
This is so much fun to watch with the volume muted. MJ's body language speaks loudly! oh my goodness he's so sweeeeet and HOT and funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSNkgiof3Mc
I hope everybody is calmer at least. Discussions are great, we just have to be willing sometimes to say things in a discussion board that we say to others in our daily lives. Things like, "oh hay, I didn't know that", or, "what exactly do you mean" (i think we've gotten pretty good with that one) and things like, "oh I'm sorry, I misunderstood" (which is easy to do communicating in text-only)
I'm not trying to completely abandon y'all's little (MJ)- lovers spat
but as a comic relief I have posted this clip from the IJCSLY rehearsal.This is so much fun to watch with the volume muted. MJ's body language speaks loudly! oh my goodness he's so sweeeeet and HOT and
funnyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSNkgiof3Mc
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MJJ7777
Proud Member
Thanks for the welcome!
Asedora- I totally agree with what you said however during HIStory tour, MJ was married to Lisa, if not was with Debbie. He was still taking Propofol even though he was in a romantic/s relationship at that time. So, I'm not sure if sleep anesthesia can be a reliable indicator as to MJ's romantic life. But IDK...
Then we have Karen who was recently re-hired for the tour. Things may have happened for the long duration in which she was absent from MJ's life. I don't think she was as close to MJ as she was before. Thus, she wasn't entitled to know everything, especially private matters.
Asedora- I totally agree with what you said however during HIStory tour, MJ was married to Lisa, if not was with Debbie. He was still taking Propofol even though he was in a romantic/s relationship at that time. So, I'm not sure if sleep anesthesia can be a reliable indicator as to MJ's romantic life. But IDK...
Then we have Karen who was recently re-hired for the tour. Things may have happened for the long duration in which she was absent from MJ's life. I don't think she was as close to MJ as she was before. Thus, she wasn't entitled to know everything, especially private matters.
Asedora
Guests
AllforMJ is asking us to let Michael "speak for himself" through his music. I feel for that point to be acknowledged would be helpful for anyone posting in the thread because when it is not, it is a wee bit off topic imho.
AllforMJ is not very tolerant of someone posting in the thread who seems to keep veering off the points that have already been established and I'm just taking a chance on filling you in and if you already knew this then perhaps there are others who didn't. jm2cw
It is not a question of not letting MJ "speak for himself" trough his lyrics. It is a question about difference of opinions. There were two groups of ppl in this thread. First group believed that there was a real woman and another group didn't, which I used to belong to.
Nobody was disputing that MJ was not in Love. For the first group he was in love with real a woman, for the second group he was in love with his muse, with the woman in his mind.
I hope it is clear now I it doesn’t' need to be explained again and again.
And if AllforMJ is not tolerant, she has to learn how to be tolerant. She doesn't own this thread. Right? We do not have this option here as far as I know.
Well, we have all gone back and forth as we have examined things related to this topic. I believe the first person to introduce the aspect of the "muse" was yours truly and it was because one day I realized that is what "she" was, and I say that with full understanding also that "she" was/is also, REAL.
Its just that by her not being THERE with him, the easy explanation for myself was that she was a real person whom MJ "met" in some form or fashion at some point in time, who he did not see again, he "searched the whole world wishing she'll be there time after time" and he nevertheless kept singing about "her". Something seems to have happened (songs on Dangerous) and he experienced "her" in a different way.
When I say muse, I don't mean exclusive to the fact of her existence, and I don't mean someone he made up, not at all. I just mean someone he was for some reason inspired by, to sing to/about, and who was embedded deeply in his heart through all of what the public witnessed him going through, without "her" being anywhere in sight, until a certain point came where "she" became more REAL to him, whether that's because they corresponded via internet, he got photos of her, he made it his business to go "hangin around" her or whatever.
His marraiges are irrelevant to this thread imho unless you are deciphering a song you feel fits, but you can't look at his life choices to see what was going on in the music we have discussed so far. Some have considered lines like, "I have a wife and two children who love me" to indicate Lisa, so music that specifically may fit is one thing, but this thread is all about starting with the music first and going from there. I wonder if that makes sense toya. If not let me know.
Its just that by her not being THERE with him, the easy explanation for myself was that she was a real person whom MJ "met" in some form or fashion at some point in time, who he did not see again, he "searched the whole world wishing she'll be there time after time" and he nevertheless kept singing about "her". Something seems to have happened (songs on Dangerous) and he experienced "her" in a different way.
When I say muse, I don't mean exclusive to the fact of her existence, and I don't mean someone he made up, not at all. I just mean someone he was for some reason inspired by, to sing to/about, and who was embedded deeply in his heart through all of what the public witnessed him going through, without "her" being anywhere in sight, until a certain point came where "she" became more REAL to him, whether that's because they corresponded via internet, he got photos of her, he made it his business to go "hangin around" her or whatever.
His marraiges are irrelevant to this thread imho unless you are deciphering a song you feel fits, but you can't look at his life choices to see what was going on in the music we have discussed so far. Some have considered lines like, "I have a wife and two children who love me" to indicate Lisa, so music that specifically may fit is one thing, but this thread is all about starting with the music first and going from there. I wonder if that makes sense toya. If not let me know.
I'm going to petition the owners of this site for some NO HUNTING SMILIES smilies :lol: ooooooooooooo wouldn't that be fun :devil: muahhahahahahahahahafor dead meat number one:
for dead meat number two:
~ Good thing you stopped at only using two in a post, es-oh-es...how unlike you by the way, for how much ammo do you think I have on hand at any given moment anyway?
Blessed are the peace makers...
meanwhile, its ok, I love you in your violence
irate:(bet u hate Peter Pan too)
Asedora
Guests
This is so much fun to watch with the volume muted. MJ's body language speaks loudly! oh my goodness he's so sweeeeet and HOT and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSNkgiof3Mc
It will be a different opinion from me once again. I do not find him healthy looking here. I do not find it funny either . He did sacrifice himself for this world and I really love him because what this man did is incredibly important.
I didn’t watch TII yet because I do not think I can handle it and besides I do not want to pay Sony/AEG. From what I saw so far I can say that it is obvious for me that MJ had problems. I can clearly see some emotional issues, I can see some health issues plus I know that in TII they did put only the best parts.
Honestly, looking at this video I see a "mask of life" but not a real life.
Asedora
Guests
He got married LMP in 1994 I guess? The marriage lasted for 20 months. History tour was from September 7, 1996 - October 15, 1997.
I guess he was already divorced. I do not remember when he started with Debbie.
But there is nothig was romantic with Debbie imo. I do not even count it.
MJJ7777
Proud Member
I agree. I couldn't find the "happy" MJ everyone was mentioning. I saw the movie and I honestly didn't know what to say. He just wasn't the MJ I've grown to know.
But the IJCSLY was probably the "happiest" moment you'll come across in the movie. I think he enjoyed this number more so than any other.:wub:
You're saying Asedora that you don't see a man having fun, in the zone, doing what he loves in a way that shows he's glad to be there doing it? He's enjoying himself very much playing off his fellow performer and all he's ever asked is that we enjoy it too.
That's why he's doing it. For all to enjoy. So if MJ were here right now you'd say, "you look unhealthy and like you're not having fun"???
Even if you think he had some pathetic existence, even if you buy everything they told you about propofol, and everything other negative slant on Michael's life, I don't know why you can't see that he is enjoying himself?
I agree with you that if "she" was with him like he seemed to have been singing about, his life would have been very different, but although she wasn't there with him in daily life, it doesn't mean he wasn't handling his life as best he could with "her" in his heart, making the best of his situation and having fun with his cast and crew.
For all we know, had "she" not come back into his awareness, he might have not made it passed 2005. He was not only accused of the most henious thing ever, he was also accused (basically by the entire world) of being the exact OPPOSITE of his character. That alone could have taken him out of here.
We are rejoicing that Michael was apparantly in a different space from feeling like a victim of hate, or going out of his way to people-please to the point of exhausting himself. He's simply being himself, and I for one love it.
That's why he's doing it. For all to enjoy. So if MJ were here right now you'd say, "you look unhealthy and like you're not having fun"???
Even if you think he had some pathetic existence, even if you buy everything they told you about propofol, and everything other negative slant on Michael's life, I don't know why you can't see that he is enjoying himself?
I agree with you that if "she" was with him like he seemed to have been singing about, his life would have been very different, but although she wasn't there with him in daily life, it doesn't mean he wasn't handling his life as best he could with "her" in his heart, making the best of his situation and having fun with his cast and crew.
For all we know, had "she" not come back into his awareness, he might have not made it passed 2005. He was not only accused of the most henious thing ever, he was also accused (basically by the entire world) of being the exact OPPOSITE of his character. That alone could have taken him out of here.
We are rejoicing that Michael was apparantly in a different space from feeling like a victim of hate, or going out of his way to people-please to the point of exhausting himself. He's simply being himself, and I for one love it.
mystygrl
Proud Member
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See what happens when I do not regularly visit this thread? Tsk...tsk...tsk:no:...
Hi, Asedora and welcome!First of all, regarding the words bolded in black, to you, Asedora I say point well taken. I agree that regardless of what one believes as to whether MJ was alluding to a "real" woman or an "abstract" relationship that we choose not to dispute he was not in love. And, if we find ourselves believing he had a "physical" lover or a "spiritual" connection with someone that the one thing we can DEFINITELY agree upon is that his interpretation of love through his lyrics and music combined, touched the hearts of all mankind whether young or old, regardless of nationality, uniting a generation and many more to come.
Second, about the words bolded in red, actually, this thread was started by AllForMJ on June 30, 2008, according to Post #1. In fact, she initially began this discussion since May 18, 2008, and, at one point, requested the mods to close it, which they did. Therefore, we would not have had this wonderful thread and discussion, which quickly became one of the largest topics visited if it wasn't for AllForMJ.
Personally, I cannot thank her enough for such a wonderful gift this thread has been to those who believe MJ truly had a "special lady" and to those who believe he had a "special someone" in his mind.
P.S. Uhh, about the birth of this thread and the closing as well as the reopening of it, I gladly accept corrections needed; especially from you, AllForMJ, the one who began it all.
Asedora
Guests
Exactly. This is what I can sense as well. I dunno how other ppl cannot see it. He was NOT MJ I used to know before. And this is def not an age issue. There is something else behind.
And you right that ILCSLY maybe was the best "funny" moment.
I have a strong feeling that Michael knew that something is going to happen with him.
AllForMJ
Guests
Hmmmmm...
And the saga continues. :lol:
But anyways....
This is the type of stuff that I'm talking about. This right here.
If you think it sounds cruel to the point that you yourself are saying it does, why would you continue saying things like this and trying to drive it forward?
This thread is not about what sounds cruel. It is about love and romance and what MJ was conveying.
The type of songs that he started working on and releasing were very loving songs and obviously meant something special to him.
For example, during the trial he was interviewed by Geraldo Rivera. Geraldo showed a clip of MJ in the recording studio working on a song. The song that MJ was working on was "Beautiful Girl." During a time like that, a time that was extremely hard on him, it would take a lot of strength to work on such a loving song, record it so beautifully and have it coming from his imagination only.
But, if there's a true source behind it, and a real feeling for him to pull from, it would be effortless just like it was.
Now about who owns this thread, please keep in mind that you don't. Yes, I am the one that initiated it, and although I probably cannot claim full ownership either, because I do not own this forum, I did open up the discussion and it is obvious that I would be the person, more so than yourself, that would understand why I did so, right?
If the idea for the thread did not come from you, how can you come in from nowhere and start directing it? From looking at how long it's been going before you came along, don't you think it was doing quite alright without you critiquing it and trying to reshape it to your liking and also trying to tell me about not having any tolerance as I watch you in action?
Are you serious? :lol:
Come on now. If you want to talk about reality then stop trying to act like I'm not being realistic. And you can't call me ignorant, not have me return the same word and then also say I'm not showing any tolerance. LOL
I welcome you too btw
With all due respect to both of you .....
:hijacked: You are off topic!
There is a Lisa Marie thread that is perfect for hyjacking with conversations about Debbie Rowe. Please take this conversation there
on this note, I realize I could be wrong about this, but in trying to figure out why you guys see it this way, I'm wondering if its not simply because he is not "matching up to" the "Michael Jackson" you expected where he's giving all kinds of exhausting extra energy. I love watching him be comfortable in his own skin. Its beautiful to me. :wub:
Asedora
Guests
So what you saying, all those years being in this buseness and performing he wasn't being himself and in TII he was? I do not really get your point.
So once again, all those years he was not "in his own skin"? I respectfully disagree with this.
At least everybody can see a difference.
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I completely agree and its intersting that it did not include the rest of the song. Just the one line.
btw mystygirl nice post
good to see ya.I will offer on this topic that it does not mean that he was not being himself per se. It means that in the older days, Michael had different goals and he put a lot of energy into reaching them. That involved imho, some energy toward trying to be all things to all people so to speak. He wanted to cross over demographics which he did very successfully as evident from his fans being all over the globe, he had to make a short film to sell certain records and put a lot of energy into making sure they crossed all the way over the globe as well and everything else that went into the uncalculable success his career became...but in TII he was not concerned about anything but doing some great theatre as himself to please only the eye of the camera so to speak. Not everyone in the entire world.
MJJ7777
Proud Member
Oh...I was referring to Asedora's post where she said MJ obviously didn't have "Love" in his life before his death, because he had to use propofol to sleep. A girlfriend wouldn't let him do such things. I responded and said MJ used Propofol during HIStory at a time when he was possibly still married to Lisa and/or with Debbie.I welcome you too btw
With all due respect to both of you .....
:hijacked: You are off topic!
There is a Lisa Marie thread that is perfect for hyjacking with conversations about Debbie Rowe. Please take this conversation there
on this note, I realize I could be wrong about this, but in trying to figure out why you guys see it this way, I'm wondering if its not simply because he is not "matching up to" the "Michael Jackson" you expected where he's giving all kinds of exhausting extra energy. I love watching him be comfortable in his own skin. Its beautiful to me. :wub:
Dont know if thats off topic.
Very well put.Asedora, may I ask, is French your first language and English your second?
Also...
When one performs they are "on"...they put on their "stage persona" which is good...it's part of being an entertainer, and MJ has always been a master at knowing how to present himself to an audience to draw them in.
But when he said the words, "I love you" Michael Jackson "the performer" was put aside and Michael Jackson, just him, pure and simple, was the one we heard.
Asedora
Guests
Different energy, different goals, being himself...... . Did you see the whole tape? Also you saw the best pars. How you can drive your own conclusions and ignore what ppl say who saw him in person those days? I mean his fans who were around him and who saw a difference?
Anyways, TII is off top. We have a whole forum on MJJC board just for TII. I do not want to discuss TII because this movie makes me feel bad and sorry for Michael.
I do not really want to watch it knowing at the same time that he gonna die in a few days. I just do not feel right about it.