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What AEG exec told my friend about Michael

danae85 said:
For some reason, though I am pretty thick skinned and do not care a bit about what people think or say about me, it hurts very much when someone in MJJC even insinuates that I'm lying or is rude to me in any way. This forum is like a little haven for me, and I want to think that we are all here because of love and we will follow Michael's example and be sweet and nice to each other.

However, I have seen some pretty brutal attacks being made on other posts, and i understand that our feelings are always going to be running high, and I also know that this is a sensitive subject for all of us, so i am trying not to take anything personally or seriously.

But saying that I am a stranger to this community is below the belt. I have spent more time in this forum (albeit reading and not commenting as much, since i am not one to talk if i have nothing worth adding to a discussion) than i have with my friends these past 6 months. And I have been loving MJ all my life. I am not a stranger, I am one of you.
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I have been here on MJJC for a LONG time, and was very active (and even influential in some ways?) during the trial. I've put that same energy and intelligence into these investigations. I BELIEVE you. I understand that you will be attacked and I'm SO sorry. "We" really should behave better here on MJJC. Please try to ignore it as possible?

I thank you for posting.

Vic
 
Okay, this is what Randy Phillips had to say about the budget, it's clear to me he was angry, to say the least.
(He also implies that they didn't want Murray, but that's offtopic. The whole interview is a good read. And maybe Murray is not so offtopic after all, the was paid by AEG also, adding to the final costs. The details about the money are removed form the contract. From what I've read, there were the production costs itselves, murray's fee, michael's advance, what more?)

Randy Philips:
"The original contract called for $7.5 million in a production budget to prepare the show… And I knew when we did the deal, knowing Michael, it would go to $10 [million], maybe $12 million. By the time it hit $24 million, I was actually ready to jump off the balcony of this office building because I thought my career was over. But that's Michael," Randy laughed. "It just got bigger and bigger."

Among the things that were to be shown on the tour were several 3D mini-movies, which cost about $9 million to make. But AEG was forced to draw a line in the sand when Michael told Randy and concert and eventual "This Is It" film director Kenny Ortega that he needed a stage version of the largest waterfall in the world.

"The last straw for Kenny and I, because we're running out of time, we're running out of money… he said to us he wanted us to recreate the Victoria Falls from Africa," Randy said. "Kenny and I looked at each other and said, 'How are we going to do that?!'
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/entert...s_Is_It__Intervention_Revealed_-64454532.html
 
Popescu said:
Okay, this is what Randy Phillips had to say about the budget, it's clear to me he was angry, to say the least.
(He also implies that they didn't want Murray, but that's offtopic. The whole interview is a good read. And maybe Murray is not so offtopic after all, the was paid by AEG also, adding to the final costs. The details about the money are removed form the contract. From what I've read, there were the production costs itselves, murray's fee, michael's advance, what more?)

Randy Philips:
"The original contract called for $7.5 million in a production budget to prepare the show… And I knew when we did the deal, knowing Michael, it would go to $10 [million], maybe $12 million. By the time it hit $24 million, I was actually ready to jump off the balcony of this office building because I thought my career was over. But that's Michael," Randy laughed. "It just got bigger and bigger."

Among the things that were to be shown on the tour were several 3D mini-movies, which cost about $9 million to make. But AEG was forced to draw a line in the sand when Michael told Randy and concert and eventual "This Is It" film director Kenny Ortega that he needed a stage version of the largest waterfall in the world.

"The last straw for Kenny and I, because we're running out of time, we're running out of money… he said to us he wanted us to recreate the Victoria Falls from Africa," Randy said. "Kenny and I looked at each other and said, 'How are we going to do that?!'
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/entert...s_Is_It__Intervention_Revealed_-64454532.html
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So Murray was written into the AEG contract ...being paid by AEG?

edit..Ok I read that story..thank yhou for posting it......Phillips says.....He ..meaning Micahel would of hired Murray himself if Randy would of said No.....IMHO.....those are Randy's words...IDK if I believe him....Michael was Murray's only patient at this point and how in the hell does a Dr Let his only patient die...unless he was being paid to kill him.
 
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xthunderx2 said:
So Murray was written into the AEG contract ...being paid by AEG?

edit..Ok I read that story..thank yhou for posting it......Phillips says.....He ..meaning Micahel would of hired Murray himself if Randy would of said No.....IMHO.....those are Randy's words...IDK if I believe him....Michael was Murray's only patient at this point and how in the hell does a Dr Let his only patient die...unless he was being paid to kill him.
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Murray never recieved the money from AEG, he sued them afterwards for 300.000$. The nerve.
It seems that neither AEG, nor Michael, signed the contract.
http://tmzdev.sandbox.tmz.com/2009/...rray-lawsuit-michael-jackson-london-concerts/
 
Popescu said:
Murray never recieved the money from AEG, he sued them afterwards for 300.000$. The nerve.
It seems that neither AEG, nor Michael, signed the contract.
http://tmzdev.sandbox.tmz.com/2009/...rray-lawsuit-michael-jackson-london-concerts/
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ohhhh....well I new that Michael didn't hire him because he meaning Murray said he had never been paid...but there was speculation on WHO hired him...so now we know that it WAS AEG....and yes you are right the nerve of Murray suing after the fact..Is he insane...300.000 after he killed Michael..this guys not all there in that head that is for sure. also it doesn't suprise me that AEG didnt sign the contract they wanted to be as far away from Murray as possible...they didnt want anything pointing to them......however they made sure that they recouped the money that they lost after Michael passed away by putting a request into the estate now didnt they?...sneaky bastards if you ask me.
 
I think a lot of people have taken stories and blown them way out of proportion. I've noticed many fans taking the sentence "he didn't want to do it" and interpreting that to mean he must have been forced. That's not necessarily the case. Let's take a look at ourselves for a moment. We are reading that Michael didn't want to do it, but he got into it in the end. It's probably a situation we could all relate you. Admit it, we've all being there. We've all had moments were we dread doing something, but once we finish we always say "that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be".

I can tell you that literally a day after I finished High School, I reluctantly took a job to work night-shift packing shelves in a supermarket. I had no choice, I needed the money. At first, I hated it. By the end of each working day, I would be exhausted, tired and in the beginning I didn't feel motivated at all. At 17 years old, you feel like the world is at your feet. All your friends were going off and finding a purpose in their lives. I was convinced God didn't put me on this earth to pack shelves. But, I'll tell you what, when my time was up, when it was time to say goodbye, I didn't want to leave. I fell in love with my co-workers, fell in love with my job, it was such an amazing learning experience and I had learned everything you could ever hope to learn in a job - discipline, dedication - you name it. By the end of it, I thought to myself "Man, I had so much fun!" And this was a job I initially didn't want! Yeah it was tough work, but ask me if I would do it again and I would reply with a big fat "YES!"

I just think we separate Michael from us a lot of times and in some cases (such as these) we have some double standards. It seems like it's ok for us to take on jobs that we don't necessary want to take on, but need to for a number of reasons. That's fine. That's ok. But when Michael does it, we seem to stop and say "He was manipulated!" "He was drugged!" "Tohme held a gun to his head!". I'm not going to call anyone here a liar. Yes, maybe at first, Michael didn't want to do the shows. But he had a reason for doing them. Taking the job probably wasn't something he wanted to do initially, but you have to understand, that doesn't mean someone backed him into a corner and forced him into doing it. Everyone involved on the show has said that same thing: That Michael saw this as an opportunity to show his children what he did. He saw it as an opportunity to get his messages out there. He saw it as opportunity to be in front of fans again. He saw it as an opportunity to get his finances in order. Just like you would probably take a job you really don't want just to get your finances in order or support your family. Does that mean someone held a gun to your head and forced you to sign the contract? No. Whether you wanted to do it or not, it was your choice, and your decision.

There were many reasons why Michael agreed to do the shows. Not necessarily because he wanted to, but because he felt he had a reason to - for his children, for his fans and for the environment. I remember Kenny Ortega was once asked what was Michael was like during rehearsals, and he responded by saying "He was driven". I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. Michael was motivated by a purpose. Michael didn't want to do the Victory tour either, but he did it, because he was motivated by the fact that he knew at the end of every show a different charity would benefit from these concerts. He did it for them because would always put others' needs before his own. There were many things Michael didn't want to do, but was willing to do in order to bring joy to other people. With "This Is It" it was like "I don't want tour again, but I'm willing to do it for you. I'm willing to put 110% into this to make you happy. I'm willing to put on the best show possible to get people to take notice and listen to my messages. I'm willing give my children a chance to see what I do because I'm still young enough to do it and they are old enough to appreciate it." Just like you'd probably tell your kids, "I don't want to go to work everyday and leave you here, but I'm doing this for you. I'm doing this so that you could eat and have more toys and have a roof over your head, clothes on your body and blankets on your bed". When you think of MJ's character, you know he wasn't thinking to himself "but I don't want to do this". You know he would have been thinking "I have a reason to do this. This is my purpose. This is what I have to do."
 
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All I can say now, is thank you for risking to post. Some of us in here believe you, and I hope you appreciate that? Those who don't, can you try to ignore it? Some of us are just trying to find justice for Michael, whatever the truth might turn out to be.
 
StephluvsMJ said:
I think a lot of people have taken stories and blown them way out of proportion. I've noticed many fans taking the sentence "he didn't want to do it" and interpreting that to mean he must have been forced. That's not necessarily the case. Let's take a look at ourselves for a moment. We are reading that Michael didn't want to do it, but he got into it in the end. It's probably a situation we could all relate you. Admit it, we've all being there. We've all had moments were we dread doing something, but once we finish we always say "that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be".

I can tell you that literally a day after I finished High School, I reluctantly took a job to work night-shift packing shelves in a supermarket. I had no choice, I needed the money. At first, I hated it. By the end of each working day, I would be exhausted, tired and in the beginning I didn't feel motivated at all. At 17 years old, you feel like the world is at your feet. All your friends were going off and finding a purpose in their lives. I was convinced God didn't put me on this earth to pack shelves. But, I'll tell you what, when my time was up, when it was time to say goodbye, I didn't want to leave. I fell in love with my co-workers, fell in love with my job, it was such an amazing learning experience and I had learned everything you could ever hope to learn in a job - discipline, dedication - you name it. By the end of it, I thought to myself "Man, I had so much fun!" And this was a job I initially didn't want! Yeah it was tough work, but ask me if I would do it again and I would reply with a big fat "YES!"

I just think we separate Michael from us a lot of times and in some cases (such as these) we have some double standards. It seems like it's ok for us to take on jobs that we don't necessary want to take on, but need to for a number of reasons. That's fine. That's ok. But when Michael does it, we seem to stop and say "He was manipulated!" "He was drugged!" "Tohme held a gun to his head!". I'm not going to call anyone here a liar. Yes, maybe at first, Michael didn't want to do the shows. But he had a reason for doing them. Taking the job probably wasn't something he wanted to do initially, but you have to understand, that doesn't mean someone backed him into a corner forced him into doing it. Everyone involved on the show has said that same thing: That Michael saw this as an opportunity to show his children what he did. He saw it as an opportunity to get his messages out there. He saw it as opportunity to be in front of fans again. He saw it as an opportunity to get his finances in order. Just like you would probably take a job you really don't want just to get your finances in order or support your family. Does that mean someone held a gun to your head and forced you to sign the contract? No. Whether you wanted to do it or not, it was your choice, and your decision.

There were many reasons why Michael agreed to do the shows. Not necessarily because he wanted to, but because he felt he had a reason to - for his children, for his fans and for the environment. I remember Kenny Ortega was once asked what was Michael was like during rehearsals, and he responded by saying "He was driven". I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. Michael was motivated by a purpose. Michael didn't want to do the Victory tour either, but he did it, because he was motivated by the fact that he knew at the end of every show a different charity would benefit from these concerts. He did it for them because would always put others' needs before his own. There were many things Michael didn't want to do, but was willing to do in order to bring joy to other people. With "This Is It" it was like "I don't want tour again, but I'm willing to do it for you. I'm willing to put 110% into this to make you happy. I'm willing to put on the best show possible to get people to take notice and listen to my messages. I'm willing give my children a chance to see what I do because I'm still young enough to do it and they are old enough to appreciate it." Just like you'd probably tell your kids, "I don't want to go to work everyday and leave you here, but I'm doing this for you. I'm doing this so that you could eat and have more toys and have a roof over your head, clothes on your body and blankets on your bed". When you think of MJ's character, you know he wasn't thinking to himself "but I don't want to do this". You know he would have been thinking "I have a reason to do this."
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ok....Michael was driven to do shows...he stated he wanted 10 shows NOT 50...why do some people not understand that.....he said it himself.....there are WAY to many sources that have stated this..how can you not believe it....all these people cannot be making it up.....besides Michael told fans..people he trusted...people he spoke to alot.....how can you not believe them...how can you not believe Michael?.....why would these people lie?
 
xthunderx2 said:
ok....Michael was driven to do shows...he stated he wanted 10 shows NOT 50...why do some people not understand that.....he said it himself.....there are WAY to many sources that have stated this..how can you not believe it....all these people cannot be making it up.....besides Michael told fans..people he trusted...people he spoke to alot.....how can you not believe them...how can you not believe Michael?.....why would these people lie?
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I believe Michael, and always have. I believe the Follower Fans, because they are the only ones without an agenda. In the end, it doesn't matter how many people say it is not so. That does not change reality. Some of us are willing to accept that Michael was not a perfect human-being, and that we love him regardless. It just is what it is, and anyone who blocks "investigations," please do not? Some of us just need to KNOW.
 
Victoria83 said:
I believe Michael, and always have. I believe the Follower Fans, because they are the only ones without an agenda. In the end, it doesn't matter how many people say it is not so. That does not change reality. Some of us are willing to accept that Michael was not a perfect human-being, and that we love him regardless. It just is what it is, and anyone who blocks "investigations," please do not? Some of us just need to KNOW.
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I know you do Victoria.....I believe Michael too.....I am one of those with the NEED to KNOW..
 
Popescu said:
Murray never recieved the money from AEG, he sued them afterwards for 300.000$. The nerve.
It seems that neither AEG, nor Michael, signed the contract.
http://tmzdev.sandbox.tmz.com/2009/...rray-lawsuit-michael-jackson-london-concerts/
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We don't know that Murray sued AEG. We know he MAY have or MIGHT sue AEG. The article you posted says "may sue AEG." I haven't seen anything since mid-November, when this story hit the web, about Murray suing AEG. Perhaps he will, perhaps he already has. We don't know for sure though. If he does, I doubt he'll win. As I recall, AEG's response to the threat of a lawsuit was that Murray would need to sue the Estate....which, I think we all know, he is not likely to do.
 
All those things they mentioned are important news. Thank you for sharing it with us.

3. That Michael only got excited about the project towards the end - and that he was like "a kid in a candy store"

So I was right. We are all right. Michael didn't want to do the shows. And then, he did want to do those shows.

Because I kept getting the feeling that Michael did want to do those shows. Even with everybody saying he didn't, I just kept thinking that he did.

They lured him into this. Like a kid doesn't want to take a walk down the street, but you tell them there's a candy store along the street and they can have WHATEVER they want if they take that walk, the kid will jump on their feet and be out the door in no time! That's what they did to Michael, similarly.
 
TinaG said:
We don't know that Murray sued AEG. We know he MAY have or MIGHT sue AEG. The article you posted says "may sue AEG." I haven't seen anything since mid-November, when this story hit the web, about Murray suing AEG. Perhaps he will, perhaps he already has. We don't know for sure though. If he does, I doubt he'll win. As I recall, AEG's response to the threat of a lawsuit was that Murray would need to sue the Estate....which, I think we all know, he is not likely to do.
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You're right Tina, but the point was that Murray was going to be paid by AEG. Why would Michael have to go through them, getting their "permission", if the doctor would have been paid by himself? It makes no sense.

I was trying to put it all toghether, the sum that AEG was going to invest all-in-all into these concerts, and the possible profit. I think we're not talking only about the production costs, which vary from site to site to about 24 or 25 mil $, but about much more.
Question is, how much more? Is it possible that at some point they thought that Mike wasn't up to ALL the concerts, and they were going to lose the money? "Do or die"?
"...I was actually ready to jump off the balcony of this office building because I thought my career was over."
Um, ookay...
 
Popescu said:
You're right Tina, but the point was that Murray was going to be paid by AEG. Why would Michael have to go through them, getting their "permission", if the doctor would have been paid by himself? It makes no sense.

I was trying to put it all toghether, the sum that AEG was going to invest all-in-all into these concerts, and the possible profit. I think we're not talking only about the production costs, which vary from site to site to about 24 or 25 mil $, but about much more.
Question is, how much more? Is it possible that at some point they thought that Mike wasn't up to ALL the concerts, and they were going to lose the money? "Do or die"?
"...I was actually ready to jump off the balcony of this office building because I thought my career was over." Um, ookay...
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I've never heard that before. But it sounds like Randy Phillips. Did he say that?
 
kasume said:
I've never heard that before. But it sounds like Randy Phillips. Did he say that?
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Yes, he DID say that. And then Michael . . died. The Follower Fans were also afraid that Michael would die, and they said so. And then. . . Michael died. How much MORE will it take, anyway? How much more can be discounted or ignored?

There are some who do NOT want to know the truth, and who want to keep an illusion alive. I understand that. But I also hope that they will let US alone to keep digging? And if not, that is very, very . . not good.
 
xthunderx2 said:
ok....Michael was driven to do shows...he stated he wanted 10 shows NOT 50...why do some people not understand that.....he said it himself.....there are WAY to many sources that have stated this..how can you not believe it....all these people cannot be making it up.....besides Michael told fans..people he trusted...people he spoke to alot.....how can you not believe them...how can you not believe Michael?.....why would these people lie?
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I didn't say they lied. You said he only wanted to do 10 shows not 50. Fair enough. He only wanted to do 10, but subsequently agreed to more to meet the demand. I am not calling anyone a lair, but you would expect him to agree to more shows if the demand was there. What I'm having trouble understanding is why people make a big deal out of it. Like I said earlier in my post, there are some projects that Michael didn't want to do but was willing to do to in order to please people.

Michael went to the fans and basically said he was doubting himself. He didn't know if he could do it, he was only one man, he needed to eat more, etc, etc... Remember now, this "meeting" was at the end of May, the shows were less than two months away, and people were in a rush. AEG had just postponed the opening date to make way for more rehearsal time, Michael was working out with Lou Ferrigno, he was doing vocal lessons with Seth Riggs, going to meetings, fans were complaining to him about the method of ticket distribution and the rescheduling and the seating arrangements. Michael was in a stressed mode at this time, and understandably so. The production for the show was a long way from being ready and he was just getting back into the intense rehearsal process after a long period of time. Of course he was going to be stressed out and having doubts. By mid-June, the rehearsals were well under way, and Michael had started to get used to the process again, and started to become more confident in his ability. You could see it in the film. And you could also see that once they hit the Staples and many of the props were up, the 3d LED screen was on, his dream was starting to come alive, you could tell Michael was vibrant, he was confident and he was happy and that he was ready. The footage speaks for itself. You can see this with your own eyes.
 
StephluvsMJ said:
You could see it in the film. And you could also see that once they hit the Staples and many of the props were up, the 3d LED screen was on, his dream was starting to come alive, you could tell Michael was vibrant, he was confident and he was happy and that he was ready. The footage speaks for itself. You can see this with your own eyes.
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This IS the I.U.

I also saw 2012, The world cracked apart and was destroyed. Did, it really? I've seen the Harry Potter films. There was NO real dragon? Was there? Films tell us NOTHING. What I believe is Michael's own words, that he went to bed doing ten concerts, and woke up to fifty. I believe HIM. I believe Michael, and always will, more than anyone.
 
Victoria83 said:
This IS the I.U.

I also saw 2012, The world cracked apart and was destroyed. Did, it really? I've seen the Harry Potter films. There was NO real dragon? Was there? Films tell us NOTHING. What I believe is Michael's own words, that he went to bed doing ten concerts, and woke up to fifty. I believe HIM. I believe Michael, and always will, more than anyone.
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There's a moment in This Is It at the end of "I'll be there". He's singing in an empty arena, he had an audience of about 15 or so people sitting on the floor, singing along. In that moment, Michael spread his arms out, looked to the sky and smiled. You could see the joy and happiness in his face and in his eyes. Michael wasn't playing to cameras, he wasn't playing to a crowd. To me, that was real and couldn't be faked. No amount of digital editing and manipulation could have created that moment. So I, too, believe Michael. I believe what I saw in his eyes.
 
I have no problem to imagine the said could be true...

danae85 said:
1. That Michael did not, in fact, want to do the concerts, but was "contractually obligated"
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I do think that Michael wanted the concert. The things said about doing it for his children and they're old enough to apreciate... that all sounds like him. But I also think Michael didn't wanna do 50 shows. He wanted to get out of that this way or that way for sure.
I think it was an obvious struggeling between a concert promoter investing a hell lot of money and the King of Pop who is just that... you do not dictate Michael Jackson what he has to do.
He cancelled concerts before... 'do or die' that's valid for John Doe but not for the kop... come on who cares about being sued... doesn't really look as if Michael cared about that ever? He was way intelligent enough to know that just giving one or two 'Comeback Concerts' would have put him in a complete different position again.

2. That they had a very hard time with MJ's PR (duh. Media.)
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no doubt about that. Thome Thome had obviously no idea how to play the media game at all. He is a no mercy money guy... but doesn't care at all to be everybodies darling.

3. That Michael only got excited about the project towards the end - and that he was like "a kid in a candy store"
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well that describes an insomniac at its best (with or without Lorazepam etc.).
Yeah he pushed the costs, had ideas over ideas, didn't he... acting like that, telling about not sleeping but listening to 'God' ideas who would give them to Prince if Michael doesn't stay awake... should have told something. But yeah guess with these costs the shows just HAD TO HAPPEN BADLY.
Just don't tell me then that Michaels well being was always priority.

4. That he had driven the cost of the project so high that they were looking at a loss if the concerts had gone through
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Well read above. If ppl at AEG are not completely morons they must have known that they got into a very dangerous business situation there. Hiring someone to feed Michael... that almost tells the whole story already completely... there is some despiration in that, isn't it? I could almost feel it when I heard that.

5. That they made more money than they ever imagined after he passed.
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well we don't really have to read wall street journal to know that. So did the estate.. it's proven yet, it's nothing really unexpected.

The maybe worst about it is, that it proves Barrack et.al. true... Michael was an undervalued asset... yeah... we should have known it's just hard to survive such a pressure.

I felt sick to my stomach when i heard all that, because even though we have been hearing things like that since June 26th, this came from the horse's mouth. I could not sleep that night, tossing and turning, thinking about how that means Ortega has been lying to us, Travis has been lying to us, and the word "motive" just kept ringing in my head. I'm not going to even put the complete thought into a sentence.
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I do think it is nothing really new and I'm sorry it got you that deep really getting to know this.
I have no idea to imagine this could be true (would like to see names to put at it also for making it real evidence, but then again I don't want to see anyones life at risk. My love for the truth is huge but I'd not demand someone else to put their lives/careers at risk for that. It's their decision)... my mind is more and more tending to believe that.
So many of us were imediately thinking when hearing about the 50 concerts (although happy yes) but the very next thought was 'sheeeesh that is too much).
Don't blame K. Ortega or T. Payne... they didn't really lie... they've just signed contracts and can't give the complete picture. I don't blame them. They need to survive in that business (read above). They have to survive with that 'man in the mirror' and I'm sure it follows them this way or that way.
It's up to the LAPD to make them and others talk really.

That is the entertainment business. It will cost more lives. It did before and it will do again. Let's be honest we all know that.

Everyone better get suspicious when somoene starts to call you an 'undervalued asset' and someone like Thome is put in for caring for you.
 
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StephluvsMJ said:
I think a lot of people have taken stories and blown them way out of proportion. I've noticed many fans taking the sentence "he didn't want to do it" and interpreting that to mean he must have been forced. That's not necessarily the case. Let's take a look at ourselves for a moment. We are reading that Michael didn't want to do it, but he got into it in the end. It's probably a situation we could all relate you. Admit it, we've all being there. We've all had moments were we dread doing something, but once we finish we always say "that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be".

I can tell you that literally a day after I finished High School, I reluctantly took a job to work night-shift packing shelves in a supermarket. I had no choice, I needed the money. At first, I hated it. By the end of each working day, I would be exhausted, tired and in the beginning I didn't feel motivated at all. At 17 years old, you feel like the world is at your feet. All your friends were going off and finding a purpose in their lives. I was convinced God didn't put me on this earth to pack shelves. But, I'll tell you what, when my time was up, when it was time to say goodbye, I didn't want to leave. I fell in love with my co-workers, fell in love with my job, it was such an amazing learning experience and I had learned everything you could ever hope to learn in a job - discipline, dedication - you name it. By the end of it, I thought to myself "Man, I had so much fun!" And this was a job I initially didn't want! Yeah it was tough work, but ask me if I would do it again and I would reply with a big fat "YES!"

I just think we separate Michael from us a lot of times and in some cases (such as these) we have some double standards. It seems like it's ok for us to take on jobs that we don't necessary want to take on, but need to for a number of reasons. That's fine. That's ok. But when Michael does it, we seem to stop and say "He was manipulated!" "He was drugged!" "Tohme held a gun to his head!". I'm not going to call anyone here a liar. Yes, maybe at first, Michael didn't want to do the shows. But he had a reason for doing them. Taking the job probably wasn't something he wanted to do initially, but you have to understand, that doesn't mean someone backed him into a corner and forced him into doing it. Everyone involved on the show has said that same thing: That Michael saw this as an opportunity to show his children what he did. He saw it as an opportunity to get his messages out there. He saw it as opportunity to be in front of fans again. He saw it as an opportunity to get his finances in order. Just like you would probably take a job you really don't want just to get your finances in order or support your family. Does that mean someone held a gun to your head and forced you to sign the contract? No. Whether you wanted to do it or not, it was your choice, and your decision.

There were many reasons why Michael agreed to do the shows. Not necessarily because he wanted to, but because he felt he had a reason to - for his children, for his fans and for the environment. I remember Kenny Ortega was once asked what was Michael was like during rehearsals, and he responded by saying "He was driven". I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. Michael was motivated by a purpose. Michael didn't want to do the Victory tour either, but he did it, because he was motivated by the fact that he knew at the end of every show a different charity would benefit from these concerts. He did it for them because would always put others' needs before his own. There were many things Michael didn't want to do, but was willing to do in order to bring joy to other people. With "This Is It" it was like "I don't want tour again, but I'm willing to do it for you. I'm willing to put 110% into this to make you happy. I'm willing to put on the best show possible to get people to take notice and listen to my messages. I'm willing give my children a chance to see what I do because I'm still young enough to do it and they are old enough to appreciate it." Just like you'd probably tell your kids, "I don't want to go to work everyday and leave you here, but I'm doing this for you. I'm doing this so that you could eat and have more toys and have a roof over your head, clothes on your body and blankets on your bed". When you think of MJ's character, you know he wasn't thinking to himself "but I don't want to do this". You know he would have been thinking "I have a reason to do this. This is my purpose. This is what I have to do."
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GREAT POST! These are my views, but you expressed them so much better.
 
xthunderx2 said:
ok....Michael was driven to do shows...he stated he wanted 10 shows NOT 50...why do some people not understand that.....he said it himself.....there are WAY to many sources that have stated this..how can you not believe it....all these people cannot be making it up.....besides Michael told fans..people he trusted...people he spoke to alot.....how can you not believe them...how can you not believe Michael?.....why would these people lie?
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I believe he only wanted to do 10 shows. I just don't know the big relevance of the number as he died in preparing for one show, the first one.

Is it believed that if only ten were to be done:

He would have suspended his perfectionism and not have worked as hard?
He would not have wanted a spectacular one of a kind event for the audience, for his children, for his big comeback, for his message?
He would not have deliberated over every detail?
He would not have been as committed overall to give his very best and therefore would have been less stressed?
He would not have lost weight?
He would not have experienced insomnia?
He would never have requested his own doctor up front?


As much as I believe he wanted to do only 10 shows, I also believe everything that went into him preparing for 50, he would have done for ten.
 
(not directed to anyone in particular, ok?) The POINT is not whether or not Michael wanted to do ten shows, or fifty, or how happy he was to be back on stage, or whether he felt pressured, and so on. The POINT is, did or did not AEG think he COULD do all those shows? It was coming down to the "do or die" moment, He was beginning to pack to go to London. If, for whatever reasons, he canceled after a few shows, the losses would have been HUGE. Compared to what has been gained, now. I'm not saying AEG DID anything to Michael. Just exploring a theme, which is what we do here.

How would they know if he was capable? They were paying his DOCTOR, who I'm sure reported back to them.
 
Victoria83 said:
(not directed to anyone in particular, ok?) The POINT is not whether or not Michael wanted to do ten shows, or fifty, or how happy he was to be back on stage, or whether he felt pressured, and so on. The POINT is, did or did not AEG think he COULD do all those shows? It was coming down to the "do or die" moment, He was beginning to pack to go to London. If, for whatever reasons, he canceled after a few shows, the losses would have been HUGE. Compared to what has been gained, now. I'm not saying AEG DID anything to Michael. Just exploring a theme, which is what we do here.

How would they know if he was capable? They were paying his DOCTOR, who I'm sure reported back to them.
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I understand the theory.. and it's scary.



Can someone tell me what Ortega supposedly lied about?
 
bubbyduck4MJ said:
I understand the theory.. and it's scary.

Can someone tell me what Ortega supposedly lied about?
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I'm sure there are links in here, and Youtubes, and so on. But basically, it's felt that he lied about the amount of time Michael actually attended rehearsals. Time was passing, and it apparently wasn't easy to pry him out of his house to actually GO there. Also, about Michael's condition. He was either very well, and fit, or Ortega was having to cut up his food to see that he would eat enough (so clearly there was a concern about his weight. I've never HEARD of anyone cutting up food for a capable adult before). Ortega said both things. . that Michael was perfectly fine, AND that his weight was a concern and he was cutting up his food for him so he'd eat enough. I'm sure there is more. . .
 
StephluvsMJ said:
There's a moment in This Is It at the end of "I'll be there". He's singing in an empty arena, he had an audience of about 15 or so people sitting on the floor, singing along. In that moment, Michael spread his arms out, looked to the sky and smiled. You could see the joy and happiness in his face and in his eyes. Michael wasn't playing to cameras, he wasn't playing to a crowd. To me, that was real and couldn't be faked. No amount of digital editing and manipulation could have created that moment. So I, too, believe Michael. I believe what I saw in his eyes.
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I saw it too. No reason to manipulate that particular footage, of course. His joy in being on stage was not the point, regardless. The point was, was or was he not physically capable of sustaining the effort to complete all those concerts? He had not performed in 12 years. When he signed on for the concerts, he was literally in a wheelchair! (July, 2008, Las Vegas). It has long been said he had lupus, which is an auto-immune disease that can flare up when there is stress. (Lupus would account for the lung inflammation mentioned in one of the leaked autopsy reports.) There was great concern about his weight, at least from some. And so on. If he had completed the concerts, he would have made a vast amount of money for himself and for AEG, and for Sony if there was, eventually, an album. If he had not completed the concerts, the financial losses would have been devastating for all concerned.

As Mechi pointed out, it was a VERY dangerous business situation for AEG. HE HAD NOT PERFORMED FOR TWELVE YEARS. Nobody, including Michael, knew for sure if he'd have the stamina to do that many concerts. . . . . . .

Personally, I'm just wondering about the wisdom of this particular decision. He did not have an album to promote, for one thing. I don't recall his ever being on tour without a current album (those endless compilations don't count. I mean, NEW music!) It would have seemed better from a business (and health-safety) point-of-view for him to complete a kick-azz album, and then do one or two shows. Similar to MSG. Maybe on HBO or something. That would have generated income and promoted an album. Might not have made the money that a tour would have done, but would have been SAFER for him and the promoter, from both a business and health standpoint. That way, his children would have seen him perform, which I'm sure is something he wanted. Now, they never will. . . .
 
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Oh dear.

Michael should have cancelled and ran away...

...I wouldn't blame him if he had faked his death.

By the way, those talking about how in to it he was in the film - that footage was taken from rehearsals in mid-late june - weeks & days near to the 25th. There is even footage from the day before.
 
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