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Discussion about Charges against Dr. Murray / all threads merged

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I am going to give my personal opinion based on what I have read in the autopsy and seen in video and in print from others, such as T Mez, and based on what I have learned about the law and convictions.

If they go for a higher charge, and they lose, Murray walks away. T Mez said he would go for the charge he can prove. Thats basically it, in a nutshell.

What I think or feel or any of us thinks or feels does not matter in the eyes of the law. In the eyes of the law it is black and white and there are some shades of gray with the jury. If the proof is not there and there is considerable doubt, they will come back with a verdict of NOT guilty.

I do not believe this man did this on purpose. I do not think he pre planned this because there are too many things which he could have done to hide things better than he did. He actually was either a complete moron or in an utter panic and out of sheer desperation tried to cover up the Propofol use. It was what he did 'after the fact' that is more criminal than the act itself, which I believe was a dosage error. (I may be wrong but this is what I think)

I believe Murrays lawyers are pretty good so far from what I have seen. I can not put my faith in Brian Oxman at the present time.

Again, just my opinion.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I can understand the desire for a higher charge. Believe me. But unfortunately, it's too late for that now. They would have to go back and redo the whole investigation and that would only create more agony for Michael's fans, friends and family. The authorities would never agree to it. Also, Oxman didn't seem to be too bothered by the IM charge (and even before that), to go on TV talking about Michael being an addict and stuff like that. I don't know why he's asking for fans help anyway, especially when people involved in the court matters obviously don't care what we think and wouldn't listen to us even if we screamed our frustration in their ears. All my opinion.
 
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Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

You guys realize that he still may not serve any jail time. If he has no criminal record, etc there is a very good chance with this charge he will only get probation. If he serves and he gets 2 years he serves 1. To me that is a slap on the wrist
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Beachlover said:
I am going to give my personal opinion based on what I have read in the autopsy and seen in video and in print from others, such as T Mez, and based on what I have learned about the law and convictions.

If they go for a higher charge, and they lose, Murray walks away. T Mez said he would go for the charge he can prove. Thats basically it, in a nutshell.

What I think or feel or any of us thinks or feels does not matter in the eyes of the law. In the eyes of the law it is black and white and there are some shades of gray with the jury. If the proof is not there and there is considerable doubt, they will come back with a verdict of NOT guilty.

I do not believe this man did this on purpose. I do not think he pre planned this because there are too many things which he could have done to hide things better than he did. He actually was either a complete moron or in an utter panic and out of sheer desperation tried to cover up the Propofol use. It was what he did 'after the fact' that is more criminal than the act itself, which I believe was a dosage error. (I may be wrong but this is what I think)

I believe Murrays lawyers are pretty good so far from what I have seen. I can not put my faith in Brian Oxman at the present time.

Again, just my opinion.
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I can't rule out anything,I can't rule out he didn't do it on purpose and I can't rule out he's a complete moron as a man and as a doctor.
I mean my mum worked as a nurse for 30 years and she told me stuff that it's pure sci-fi,and you wonder how it's possible these pp become doctors in the first place...
Murrey was also desperate enough financially to take a lot of risks,he did and we know the results.
A 2D murder as far as evidence goes is such a high risk and I don't like gambling...we still don't know if later on, they will have evidence for more severe charges vs Murrey,at least I hope so.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

oxman should stop calling mj a druggie and helping the defence with their case by saying so. hes only intrested in using mj to get on tv sand that means calling him a druggie.. hes nothing but a pathetic media whore who doesnt give a dam about mj
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Do we know if this is really Brian behind this Facebook page as it is all over Facebook now.
A few of us have tried ringing his office and left messages asking if it really is his page but not had any reply as yet.
If you read the page you can see it has been written by someone else as the wording is all wrong on a few of the statuses.
One reads "You can also follow Brian on Twitter" So if it was Brian who wrote it he would of put "you can also follow ME on Twitter"
It could of been set up by his secretary or his people.
Does anyone know if it is legit or not?
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

id like to know as is the case in the uk where u can be charged with a higher crime yet the judge offers the jury the option of a lower charge aswell to decide apon. kinda like what they threw at mj at the last min with the alcohol charge

I can understand the desire for a higher charge. Believe me. But unfortunately, it's too late for that now. They would have to go back and redo the whole investigation and that would only create more agony fo Michael's fans, friends and family.
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to befair murder 2 by gross disregard for human life is very similar to manslaughter.the evidence/investigation is pretty much the same its all down to opinion. and i think the word murder puts alot of jurrors off.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

jrsfan said:
This I believe is true. I am so afraid of a plea bargain deal, especially with such a low charge already.
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i doubt there will be a plea theres really nothing to plea it down to. and the problem with the quote you replied to it at this stage we dont have a time of death. and imo if they had a strong TOD.not one that could be manipulated by defence experts then charges would have come along time ago. and the filled upto the eyenall comment comes from oxmans doesnt it? well that says it all
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

at th end of the day id rather he be convicted for IM than be found not guilty of murder 2. the issue i have is over things such as obstruction of justice etc. the lies he told to the medics and what not they should have stacked charges
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Beachlover said:
I am going to give my personal opinion based on what I have read in the autopsy and seen in video and in print from others, such as T Mez, and based on what I have learned about the law and convictions.

If they go for a higher charge, and they lose, Murray walks away. T Mez said he would go for the charge he can prove. Thats basically it, in a nutshell.

What I think or feel or any of us thinks or feels does not matter in the eyes of the law. In the eyes of the law it is black and white and there are some shades of gray with the jury. If the proof is not there and there is considerable doubt, they will come back with a verdict of NOT guilty.
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I agree.
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

i was just gonna aks about that. can ppl start contacting the LAPD and ask where and why it isnt publicy available. it seems they have done whatever it takes to protect this man
 
Re: Is there a possability Dr. Murray will be convicted to more than four years in jail?

pamarella said:
Because the courts take in consideration a lot of things. There have been people convicted of murder that is far worst than what Murray did and the sentencing was like 50 years and they get out after only serving 25 years.

Also it has a lot to do with the running of a prison by the wardens and other people that run the prison bureaus. If prisons are over crowded and they need more room for worst off offenders, they will release other prisoners that they deemed not to be a threat to society. If it can save money, they will release certain prisoners That's how it is in all 50 states.

I have to tell you, Involuntary Manslaughter is by far the least serious of all the other types of murders. I have feeling that Murray will do little time.
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that doesnt really answer the question though. most ppl that are sentenced only serve a % of the time given due to good behaviour etc or have to serve a minimum tarriff b4 they can get parole.in very few cases do they actually seerve what is given or u cant get parole. mj was charged with a crime where u couldnt get parole as sneddon was so desperate to get him but it doesnt really explain why the sentenceing guidline is 2-4 years and not for example a minimum of 5 years probation to 4 years .if probation was the minimum murray could get. imo murray will get the max. in such a high profile case i dont beleive anything else is an option and as its not a long sentence anyway it doesnt make much difference interms of looking at 2,3 or 4 years.anyway we have to get a conviction first and that is the most important thing. acknowledgement in the offical sense that murray took mj away from us and it was not mjs fault.that is what matters first and foremost
 
Re: Is there a possability Dr. Murray will be convicted to more than four years in jail?

eStyle said:
Alright, thank you!
So, in that case the bail is way too little to me...! He could easily pay that, couldn't he?
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well the bail was actually 3x more than it should have been or what is reccomended for such a crime so that was something.
 
Re: Is there a possability Dr. Murray will be convicted to more than four years in jail?

The reason they asked for a higher bail was simply because they saw him as a flight risk, not to do with the crime.
I am a paralegal so I work with alot of attorneys. No, there is no chance he will be given more then 4 years unless more charges are brought against him. The attorneys I have spoken with doubt he will even get jail time. And if he does they think they will go with the minimun 2 years where he will serve about a year.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

1) Is this really Oxman? The profile has small pictures taken from paparrazi shots, to me it makes the page look fake.

2) Charges are not the issue here. The DA can charge him with murder 2 even murder 1 if they want. The main question is "can they prove it?" I'll go with T-Mez here , it is more important that they have charges that they can prove. In a case DA has to prove their claims, but all the dependent needs to do is prove a reasonable doubt. So it is important that you go with a charge that you can prove 100%. Also there's double jeopardy - if he's tried for murder and found not guilty due to reasonable doubt he cannot be tried for the same crime again.

Yes it is not fair, yes I'd like to see him get a higher sentence but at the same time I also prefer that he gets a sentence rather than walking away free.
 
Re: Is there a possability Dr. Murray will be convicted to more than four years in jail?

angelofinnocence said:
Hello
and hugs to all.
I'm just wondering if there is a possability Murray could get more than four years in jail considering the circumstances of Michael's death? The Gibbons woman-sorry can't remember her first name) from the D.A's office said it was up to the judge about how long Murray is put away for when asked by a journo about the 4 years ?
I wonder if there has ever been given more than 4 yrs for straightfoward IM only?
just a thought?
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Real talk if more people come out and go in throughout this trail Murray would get more time this is really pissing me off
 
Re: Is there a possability Dr. Murray will be convicted to more than four years in jail?

LisaU123 said:
The reason they asked for a higher bail was simply because they saw him as a flight risk, not to do with the crime.
I am a paralegal so I work with alot of attorneys. No, there is no chance he will be given more then 4 years unless more charges are brought against him. The attorneys I have spoken with doubt he will even get jail time. And if he does they think they will go with the minimun 2 years where he will serve about a year.
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can u xplain why the sentencing guidlines are 2-4 years yet probation is an option? why are the sentencing guidlines not amount of years probation to 4 years
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I think it will be more beneficial to make people aware of the FACTS and TRUTHS of Michaels life and death. Such as the drug amounts and types in his system, he did have vitiligo, etc.

It will be important to put pressure on the judge to give Murray the Maximum sentence possible.

I do wonder why there are no other charges like obstruction???

On one hand I would love to see Murray hung by the gallows, but I trust T Mez's opinion. I don't trust Oxman. He's an idiot.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

oxman only cares about oxman. hes willing throw mj to the dogs if it means he gets his face on T.V. this time its no different hes just going down a different route. hes prob the best defence witness murray has
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

ivy said:
1) Is this really Oxman? The profile has small pictures taken from paparrazi shots, to me it makes the page look fake.
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Exactly what I said in my post! I don't think it is him either!
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Dangerous Incorporated said:
I dont care whether you like Oxman or not. If you liked Michael Jackson, do what you can to help get higher charges placed on Murray.
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i agree, i don't have a facebook what does the page say? i really want these charges changed. Involuntary manslaughter isn't enough.

has then been confirmed to be oxman?
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

elmari said:
The charge should be more severe. But then I keep thinking about what Tmez said. If the DA doesn't have enough evidence to convict a 2nd degree murder charge, then Murray might be acquitted and not serve any time at all. They went with IM because they supposedly have the evidence to convict.

Anyways, I do still think it should be 2nd degree murder w/o a doubt.
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Yeh...although I do think there is evidence for murder 2.. and I doubt Murray will serve any time anyway :/

Ejacobs29 said:
This is a political Move by DA Cooley. He has thrown in his hat for California AG..please don't believe the hype people. Murray left Micheal dead for hours before he called 911,he had so much propofol in his system it was in his eye's, he lied to police, EMT's and Doctors at UCLA. He made phone call's while MJ was dead. Please people see it for what it is..this DA cares only about his career and doesn't care if There is Justice for Michael.
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Ejacobs29 said:
Does everyone here understand that the maximum is 4 years for this charge. Most likely he will get probation. The DA will get a win and become The Next Attorney General of California.

Meanwhile Michael is dead, his children have no parents and the Jackson's are delivered one final slap in the face...

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I completely understand and and agree, however, can I just say though, what can we as fans do to change the charges? Join that facebook page...? I don't understand how we can make any difference.

I highly doubt the DA are going to listen to us and increase charges.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

elusive moonwalker said:
filled upto the eyenall comment comes from oxmans doesnt it?
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I think the coroner report said propofol was in his eyes didn't it? I can't bare to look again.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

ivy said:
1)

2) Charges are not the issue here. The DA can charge him with murder 2 even murder 1 if they want. The main question is "can they prove it?" I'll go with T-Mez here , it is more important that they have charges that they can prove. In a case DA has to prove their claims, BUT ALL THE DEFENDENT NEEDS TO DO IS PROVE REASONAL DOUBT. So it is important that you go with a charge that you can prove 100%. Also there's double jeopardy - if he's tried for murder and found not guilty due to reasonable doubt he cannot be tried for the same crime again.

Yes it is not fair, yes I'd like to see him get a higher sentence but at the same time I also prefer that he gets a sentence rather than walking away free.
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My feelings as well, and this is going to be another discussion with 2 sides on the board. Hopefully it will stay civil without name calling and pointing of fingers.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Rockin. said:
I think the coroner report said propofol was in his eyes didn't it? I can't bare to look again.
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It was everywhere, enough for major surgery and they was after he died so there must have been more.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I saw T-Mez break the entire thing down on CBS News the other morning and when it comes to what T-Mez says and what Oxman says, I'll go with T-Mez everytime, without doubt.

Aside from the fact that it appears to ME that Oxman is gearing up to be a defense witness!

I'm sure we would all like the charges to be something else, but I'll stick with T-Mez and his legal skills over Oxman anyday.

One more very important thing, if Oxman wants the charges to be changed, then he needs to offer some ADDITIONAL HARD EVIDENCE, which the D.A. can add to the evidence he already has, otherwise this effort is a waste of time, in my opinion.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Big Apple2 said:
I saw T-Mez break the entire thing down on CBS News the other morning and when it comes to what T-Mez says and what Oxman says, I'll go with T-Mez everytime, without doubt.

Aside from the fact that it appears to ME that Oxman is gearing up to be a defense witness!

I'm sure we would all like the charges to be something else, but I'll stick with T-Mez and his legal skills over Oxman anyday.
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Very true, I see a few people as defense witnesses actually..
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Rockin. said:
I think the coroner report said propofol was in his eyes didn't it? I can't bare to look again.
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i first heard it on one of the tabloid shows presented by the former prosecutors.oxman was on it it was said in a tabloidy way. if someone can confirm who read all the detailds forgive me for not having the stomach. ive been tortured enough this last few days after reading the bits i did. i feel like ive been pushed back 6 months
 
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