Discussion about Charges against Dr. Murray / all threads merged

[Ramona122003]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

:reading:



Thank you.

So the terrorist threat would obviously be a federal crime, but the stalker death threat?

I really would have thought that the FBI would be involved with such a high profile person's sudden death. Especially Michael Jackson's, considering things that have happened in the past etc. Anyway..



Thanks.

I'm a bit confused about this:



I don't want to sound stupid, but I'll remain stupid if I don't ask, and this thread is for these kinds of questions, so..

Is the preliminary/grand jury where the plea bargaining happens?
Is it that there will be either a preliminary hearing or grand jury or is the preliminary just before the grand jury? If it is either/or what decides which one it will be? What exactly happens? :blink:

I am afraid I don't know much about the stalker death threat. I think stalkers are still consider a state matter unless the stalker is national threat in someway.

The FBI usually don't get involve in murder cases, no matter how big. They are consider a state crime. A good example would be back during the civil right movement when a white person could get away with killing a black person because an all white male jury will not convict them. Which is why KKK members and other were brought up on old Reconstruction federal charges instead of murder. If the FBI does get involve, it would be more to keep terrorists or such from targeting the court house, much like what they did for Michael's case.

A plea bargain is usually often during interrogation. That is how you get confession tapes and such, which they use during the hearing for the sentences. A plea bargain to my understanding is reach before a grand jury.

 

[BillieJean84]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Murray's defense is going to say: Michael knew the drug he was asking around for, was potentially dangerous & that he could possibly not wake up from it. They are going to have it sound like Michael was already aware (which he prob was anyway) that this is a highly dangerous thing to do but said that his dr. said it was ok.

 

[twinklEE]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Murray's defense is going to say: Michael knew the drug he was asking around for, was potentially dangerous & that he could possibly not wake up from it. They are going to have it sound like Michael was already aware (which he prob was anyway) that this is a highly dangerous thing to do but said that his dr. said it was ok.

This reasoning doesn't take away the fact that Murray messed up, propofol is not lethal if given with proper equipment in a proper setting. Murray can talk out of his rotten ass, he messed up. period. Michael did not ask to be intoxicated by this man, he believed in the abilities of that male w****

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Murray's defense is going to say: Michael knew the drug he was asking around for, was potentially dangerous & that he could possibly not wake up from it. They are going to have it sound like Michael was already aware (which he prob was anyway) that this is a highly dangerous thing to do but said that his dr. said it was ok.

The problem with the defense is that even if Michael knew the risk of a medication, Murray was the one responsible for given it.

It is like going into surgery. You may know the risk and know that you may not wake up, but you do it anyway for whatever reason. Once you are knocked out, you are in the care of the doctors around you. Therefore, it is not fault of your own if the doctor mess up and kills you. Because the doctors are the one who are suppose to take care of you and you put your trust and life in their hands. That defense would only really work if Michael took the drug himself and he died. He also may not had died to begin with if Murray did what he was suppose to do as a doctor and watch his patient after he shot him full of drugs.

And this still doesn't explain everything that happen after Michael stopped breathing.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

no questions a stupid question. thats what this thread is for

Is the preliminary/grand jury where the plea bargaining happens?
Is it that there will be either a preliminary hearing or grand jury or is the preliminary just before the grand jury? If it is either/or what decides which one it will be? What exactly happens? :blink:

i presume any plea bargining happens after the prelim of GJ as its at this stage where charges can be changed from when murrya is first charged and the prelim etc decided if the case actually goes to trial in the first place.

there will either be a prelim OR a GJ. they are different things but both do the same action interms of deciding whether a case goes to trial. the prosecution will decide which one to use. its up to them if its a prelime its kinda like a mini trial theres a judge and the pros shows enough evidence that it thinks will be needed to to show the judge it should go to trial. u dont need much evidence. the defence can cross examine the pros evidence.

a grand jury is totally one sided. the pros conduct it in private with i think someone said 20 jurrors. they present pros evidence. no defence and the GJ decide if theres enough evidence

 

[funkyfish]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Murray's defense is going to say: Michael knew the drug he was asking around for, was potentially dangerous & that he could possibly not wake up from it. They are going to have it sound like Michael was already aware (which he prob was anyway) that this is a highly dangerous thing to do but said that his dr. said it was ok.

And i would hope that the prosecution point out that murray shouldn't have said it was ok. Because it wasn't.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

no questions a stupid question. thats what this thread is for


i presume any plea bargining happens after the prelim of GJ as its at this stage where charges can be changed from when murrya is first charged and the prelim etc decided if the case actually goes to trial in the first place.

there will either be a prelim OR a GJ. they are different things but both do the same action interms of deciding whether a case goes to trial. the prosecution will decide which one to use. its up to them if its a prelime its kinda like a mini trial theres a judge and the pros shows enough evidence that it thinks will be needed to to show the judge it should go to trial. u dont need much evidence. the defence can cross examine the pros evidence.

a grand jury is totally one sided. the pros conduct it in private with i think someone said 20 jurrors. they present pros evidence. no defence and the GJ decide if theres enough evidence

Actually elusive that is not completely true.

What usually happens when someone is charge is that they are taken to the station for questioning. During this process a plea bargain can be reach. They do this by telling the suspect the suppose evident against them and ofter them a way out if they cooperate.

That is what interrogations are held for usually.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

i guess murray will blame mj for not having resus equipment there aswell. all hecan do is blame mj or the tooth fairy came in and did it

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Actually elusive that is not completely true.

What usually happens when someone is charge is that they are taken to the station for questioning. During this process a plea bargain can be reach. They do this by telling the suspect the suppose evident against them and ofter them a way out if they cooperate.

That is what interrogations are held for usually.

ok thanks. im not to sure on the plea bargining. please step in. im jsut going on everything that happened with mj and how things ran then. obviously plea barings werent involved so its more of my opinion that actua fact

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

ok thanks. im not to sure on the plea bargining. please step in. im jsut going on everything that happened with mj and how things ran then. obviously plea barings werent involved so its more of my opinion that actua fact

From my understanding of Michael's case, a plea bargain may had been offer. I remember because every kept saying that Michael should take the plea bargain.

I think it was to the effect of pleading guilty to a lesser charge so he would not go to jail. In exchange, he had to be officially register as a pedo and be subjected to unannounce visits from child serves.

Although, the deal of a plea bargain is never release unless the suspect takes it.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

yes there were rumours that sneddon offered him a plea but there was never really anymore info than what u have said given at the time.whether it was actually true i dont think has ever been said.

 

[terrell]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

The problem with the defense is that even if Michael knew the risk of a medication, Murray was the one responsible for given it.

It is like going into surgery. You may know the risk and know that you may not wake up, but you do it anyway for whatever reason. Once you are knocked out, you are in the care of the doctors around you. Therefore, it is not fault of your own if the doctor mess up and kills you. Because the doctors are the one who are suppose to take care of you and you put your trust and life in their hands. That defense would only really work if Michael took the drug himself and he died. He also may not had died to begin with if Murray did what he was suppose to do as a doctor and watch his patient after he shot him full of drugs.

And this still doesn't explain everything that happen after Michael stopped breathing.

Another problem that Murray face is that this was done OUTSIDE of the hospital (illegal) with a drug that is suppose to be INSIDE of the hopital (illegal) and there was no grounds for MJ to be using this drug (sorry but using it for sleep is not the purpose for this drug). Also, the right equipment was not used (and again, all of this should have been in the hospital).

 

[terrell]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Ugh, I know. Trying to prepare myself for this. Hopefully these jurors have some logic, because honestly whether or not MJ was a druggie (He wasn't.) is irrelevant to this. I mean, he could've been on tranquilizers from morning til night, getting Demerol shots from Klein 10x a day, snorting coke in between songs, smoking crack in his dressing room, and building a meth lab in his backyard...that does not tell us anything about whether or not Murray was fully equipt to administer and 100% committed while Michael was under his care - and - whether or not he tried his damnest to help save Michael while he was dying. [God, that last sentence was hard to type...]

Everything else is just ethics,...should he have been giving this outside of a hospital?, should he have been administering without a license?...and, of course, should he have been prescribing for an addict?....:smilerolleyes: - and while the answer to all of those questions is "no" - that is not the big picture here.

I hope they understand the gravity of this case. Most people I talk to don't seem to. They think it's simply a case of "enabling". Smh. I am so sick of that word...

To "enable" a person would be even worst for Murray if that was case.

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Another problem that Murray face is that this was done OUTSIDE of the hospital (illegal) with a drug that is suppose to be INSIDE of the hopital (illegal) and there was no grounds for MJ to be using this drug (sorry but using it for sleep is not the purpose for this drug). Also, the right equipment was not used (and again, all of this should have been in the hospital).

Given him the drug outside of a hospital is not illegal. If they try to go after him on that, then Murray can easily get doctors who dealt with people using this drugs to sleep to counter them. Just like this link:

http://www.anesthesiologynews.com/index.asp?ses=ogst&section_id=1&show=dept&article_id=7579

It could also be argued that the drug is indeed safe to use even outside a hospital and if the DA goes there, they will lose ground.

Their best bet is to show that Murray acted foolishly by pumping him full of drugs and leaving the room and everything he did afterward. Murray actually given Michael the drugs in question should be secondary.

 

[Rockin.]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

OK so there is plea bargaining first and then either preliminary hearing or grand jury.

there will either be a prelim OR a GJ. they are different things but both do the same action interms of deciding whether a case goes to trial. the prosecution will decide which one to use. its up to them if its a prelime its kinda like a mini trial theres a judge and the pros shows enough evidence that it thinks will be needed to to show the judge it should go to trial. u dont need much evidence. the defence can cross examine the pros evidence.

a grand jury is totally one sided. the pros conduct it in private with i think someone said 20 jurrors. they present pros evidence. no defence and the GJ decide if theres enough evidence

Enough evidence for a proper trial?

Thanks to those answering these questions and clarifying things. Thats why I made this thread so that everyone can understand what may happen, and can ask questions relating to proceedings.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Princess M the last sentence who mentioned did make me smile. I understand what you mean. The reason people think it is about enabling is because they bought into the media hype right after his death, which depicted Michael as an addict. Somewhere in these peoples minds remain the idea that he is an addict, which prevents them from being critical about other facts. SAD

 

[PrincessMichaela]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

To "enable" a person would be even worst for Murray if that was case.

Well, right, but what I said was that a lot of people think this case is based solely on him "enabling". They think it's just a "white collar" ethical dilemma, rather than a criminal case. They don't realize that Murray screwed up royally from start to finish.

 

[PrincessMichaela]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Princess M the last sentence who mentioned did make me smile. I understand what you mean. The reason people think it is about enabling is because they bought into the media hype right after his death, which depicted Michael as an addict. Somewhere in these peoples minds remain the idea that he is an addict, which prevents them from being critical about other facts. SAD

Sad, indeed. :no: :better:

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

nough evidence for a proper trial?

yes the GJ will decide that

 

[Rockin.]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

So we read on tmz that he will plead not guilty... and will not waive his right to a preliminary hearing.

So if this is true, because he plead 'not guilty' does that mean no plea bargain.. and there will be a trial?

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

So we read on tmz that he will plead not guilty... and will not waive his right to a preliminary hearing.

So if this is true, because he plead 'not guilty' does that mean no plea bargain.. and there will be a trial?

Since we don't even know the charges and neither does Murray, it is too early to say what he will plea no guilty to anything. The DA also interrogates people before they can enter any kind of plea.

What usually happens in interrogates that they tell the person what would most likely happen to them if they fight the charges. They also tell the suspect how they know he is guilty of the crime in question without given too much of the case away. Virtually, the tell a suspect if you fight, you will lose, and get the max sentence. Whatever it is.

 

[princessleia]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

I think it's safe to assume he'll plead not guily for now. I think if there's a plea bargain it will only happen after the defense knows exactly what they're charged with and based on what evidence.

 

[maggiemay]

Re: If/After Murray is charged, then what happens?

I'm a paralegal, although I don't work in the criminal field I know a bit about it. He will be arraigned and more then likely be given bail. His lawyers more then likely will work with the DA and try to plea bargain and avoid a trial. If a trial does happen it will probably be quite a while until that happens.

That's right. As for camera's ...That again is totally up to the judge. It's not going to happen right away remember that. Our Justice system is very slow...but they know we fans and the family are outraged. So I am sure they'll push this quickly. You have to remember too, they must pick jurors. And this is going to take some time. So be patient.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

So if this is true, because he plead 'not guilty' does that mean no plea bargain.. and there will be a trial?

plea bargins only happen when someone pleads NG. if they plead guilty then obviously u dont need a plea bargin. nothing will happen until we know what charges hes facing. there will be a trial if the judge says one will happen after the prelim of the grand jury. no point trying to get a plea bargin b4 the judge actually rules theres going to be a trial

 

[Rockin.]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

plea bargins only happen when someone pleads NG. if they plead guilty then obviously u dont need a plea bargin. nothing will happen until we know what charges hes facing. there will be a trial if the judge says one will happen after the prelim of the grand jury. no point trying to get a plea bargin b4 the judge actually rules theres going to be a trial

I thought we knew the charge was involuntary manslaughter. Oh no.. I thought I understood last time but I'm confused again now. I thought a person pleads guilty for a lesser sentence and this was plea bargaining..? And if a plea bargain is reached there is no trial. If they plead not guilty I thought there is no option but to go to trial. Thats what I got from the info I posted on the first page... have I misunderstood?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

I thought we knew the charge was involuntary manslaughter.

no. we dont know the charge. that is what TMZ is saying. we will only know the charge 100% when the D.A Anounces it

I thought a person pleads guilty for a lesser sentence and this was plea bargaining..? And if a plea bargain is reached there is no trial.

yes that is right

If they plead not guilty I thought there is no option but to go to trial. Thats what I got from the info I posted on the first page... have I misunderstood?

well let my explain it this way. if im accused of a crime i dont know whether ill be charged say with manslaughter or a lesser charge. then obviously im going to wait until i know what the charge is b4 i go to the police/D.A and say look i plead guilty to manslaughter. what if the police were never going to charge me with manslaughter in the first palce and only charge me with a lesser crime? yet ive gone to them saying ill pleasd guilty b4 i even know what the charge is gonna be. see what i mean? If u plead not guilty you can always change your plea later. if the D.A offers you a deal. its notl ike once u plea not guilty thats it.

 

[Thetruthbetold]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

what happen next is more arrest's that's how i feel personally start gunning for everyone in that camp he not the only one who should be going to jail

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

I thought we knew the charge was involuntary manslaughter. Oh no.. I thought I understood last time but I'm confused again now. I thought a person pleads guilty for a lesser sentence and this was plea bargaining..? And if a plea bargain is reached there is no trial. If they plead not guilty I thought there is no option but to go to trial. Thats what I got from the info I posted on the first page... have I misunderstood?

You plea not guilty to the higher charge that DA set forward. However, they can use a plea bargain to make you plea guilty on a lesser charge or even dropped some charges.

For example, if they wanted to charge Murray on manslaughter, trafficking, hiding evidences, ect, Murray could enter a plea bargain in which he plead guilty on manslaughter, but they drop the other charges against or enter a plea of no contest.

It is a plea where the defendant neither admits nor disputes a charge, serving as an alternative to a pleading of guilty or not guilty. A no contest plea, while not technically a guilty plea, has the same immediate effect as a guilty plea, and is often offered as a part of a plea bargain.

 

[bouee]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

well let my explain it this way. if im accused of a crime i dont know whether ill be charged say with manslaughter or a lesser charge. then obviously im going to wait until i know what the charge is b4 i go to the police/D.A and say look i plead guilty to manslaughter. what if the police were never going to charge me with manslaughter in the first palce and only charge me with a lesser crime? yet ive gone to them saying ill pleasd guilty b4 i even know what the charge is gonna be. see what i mean? If u plead not guilty you can always change your plea later. if the D.A offers you a deal. its notl ike once u plea not guilty thats it.

Thanks for the explanations. Off topic, but this PR stunt from Murray's lawyers could be about negociating the charges then. Meaning he could be facing more than IM. I don't know, but I really hope so...

 

[bouee]

Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Thank you all for the explaination.

Sorry, I'm still a little bit confused ....

So you can plead not guilty at first, to "play it safe" and be able to change your plea later. My understanding from the previous posts is that if you start by pleading guilty, then you can no longer change it. Is that right ?

If he plead not guilty at first, and then wants to change to guilty to enter a plea bargain, when and how would that happen ?


If there are various charges you can either plead guilty, not guilty or no contest to each charge, right ? Then what would happen to each of thos charges ? I mean, if you plead guilty or no contest to onde of the charges, can you enter a plea bargain for ALL of the charges ??


Thank you