Latest on MJJC

Medical experts opinions about the case and medical information

Re: What a nurse thinks

There was a video on TMZ where he had a woman who worked for him and her sister go to his storage unit and pick up boxes that morning. but that was not in CA.

It is suspicious he had the boxes moved that morning. The sisters could not get their story straight. One said they were picking up furn. Another said they were there to get some old needles and dispose of them. the tape for when they went there is nonexistent becasue the security camera was not working on THAT day. You may have A coincidence and I will not think twice. but after a whole slew of coincidences, I start to wonder.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Beachlover said:
You are the first one on this thread to call Michael Jackson a druggie.
Click to expand...

She wasn't calling MJ a druggie, she was saying how others viewed him and why the charge was not higher because of it.:)
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

ginvid said:
She wasn't calling MJ a druggie, she was saying how others viewed him and why the charge was not higher because of it.:)
Click to expand...

Exactly. This thread has been civil until now, it will not be dragged down into an argument by a select few. Continue, but be respectful!
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

It's my understanding that CPR must be done on a firm surface to be effective. I'd assume the gurney's used by EMTs are very firm? Or, it should be done on the floor, or if in a bed in a hospital, a board is slipped under the person. Doing CPR on a bed can actually do a lot of physical damage if nothing firm is not placed under the patient. In that sense, we don't know WHO broke Michael's ribs, but we do know that Murray was doing CPR on a bed, because Alvarez (the Security guard who called 911) said so on that call that was released to the public. He was told to instruct whoever was doing CPR (Murray) to get the patient onto the floor. That is heard on the tape.

Of course, there is no proof of who took the Security tapes. It was reported early-on that they were missing, and it's not been reported that they were found that I've heard. Anyone? So, dunno about that one.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I have never heard of them being found either.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Victoria83 said:
It's my understanding that CPR must be done on a firm surface to be effective. I'd assume the gurney's used by EMTs are very firm? Or, it should be done on the floor, or if in a bed in a hospital, a board is slipped under the person. Doing CPR on a bed can actually do a lot of physical damage if nothing firm is not placed under the patient. In that sense, we don't know WHO broke Michael's ribs, but we do know that Murray was doing CPR on a bed, because Alvarez (the Security guard who called 911) said so on that call that was released to the public. He was told to instruct whoever was doing CPR (Murray) to get the patient onto the floor. That is heard on the tape.

Of course, there is no proof of who took the Security tapes. It was reported early-on that they were missing, and it's not been reported that they were found that I've heard. Anyone? So, dunno about that one.
Click to expand...

You know when Anna Nicole was found the nurse was doing CPR on the bed, because she could not get Anna Nicole to the floor because of size. But when Moe the bodyguard came which he is also an EMT said we have to get her to the floor and he did. Michael was only 136 and Murray over 200 some pounds easy. He would have had know problem getting him to the floor. He made too many mistakes for his actions to be involuntary.


Even an EMT and my 8 year old know to put a person on a hard surface. WOW
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I have never heard there definitely were security tapes in the first place. Some say there were cameras for who comes and goes from the building itself but not in the actual bedrooms or second floor.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I hoping the D.A. shuts down every excuse he gave with fact and expert testimony because his reasoning that morning based on the evidence already has shown this man did nothing reasonable.
 
Last edited:
Re: What a nurse thinks

if Michael died within SECONDS then he died before Murray left the room to go to the bathroom and Murray knew it
he was either incredibly stupid, or he did it on purpose!
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

We don't know for certain if there were security tapes. We DO know it was reported on CNN that "the tapes are missing." There is no confirmation that this was an accurate statement, or if it was not. There has never been a follow-up statement that I've ever heard, that either the tapes were found, or not found, or if there were even security cameras. I'd imagine that there WERE. Security cameras are pretty basic for a celebrity's home. Or even wealthy non-celebrities.

What we can go by is Michael's past history. He was extremely security-conscious. I would expect he'd be even more so after he had children.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Here, here Snowhite.

Or there is something else we do not know. that is possible. But based on what we do know, that has to be the case. Simple equipment was so important.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

This is a very interesting thread, and thanks. I am not an EMT, but even I know that CPR is done on a hard-surface. That is simple logic. Murray is a large man, and would have had no problem putting little Michael on the floor, immediately. I know that if a general anesthetic is given, the person should be monitored and rescue equipment and drugs close-at-hand. That is obvious. By no means should the person ever be left alone. When surgery is done, there is always a division of roles. A surgeon, and an anesthesiologist. And nurses present. Even in a dentist's office, the dentist has a nurse there, and is not alone in giving anesthesia. I know this from my own personal experience, and that of my family.

There is no indication that Murray was a stupid man. He does not have a long history of medical mistakes/stupidities. He has a medical degree. He ran a cardiology clinic. He was caring for the most famous person in the world. He apparently had only ONE patient. How could this have been a "mistake?" How is that even possible? There remain many unanswered questions. . . . .
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

i have a question about propofol.

even after being under this drug wouldnt a person wake still "tired" ? I thought it was a sedative or anesthegisit (sp) not an actually sleeping medication
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I'm not sure. Propofol does have a quick recovery time, and does not leave many after effects, unlike most other anaesthetics. However, you are right, it does not give a proper sleep (no REM etc) so if you are really tired before propofol, IDK if the tiredness would carry over to after recovery.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

i always hear people say they hope a person didn't suffer too much, when they died. i have a really hard time believing that a person doesn't suffer, when they die...no matter what. no use in me trying to convince myself otherwise, just to make myself feel better...


death=suffering..

it is what it is, to me...
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

vncwilliam said:
i always hear people say they hope a person didn't suffer too much, when they died. i have a really hard time believing that a person doesn't suffer, when they die...no matter what. no use in me trying to convince myself otherwise, just to make myself feel better...


death=suffering..

it is what it is, to me...
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

vncwilliam said:
i always hear people say they hope a person didn't suffer too much, when they died. i have a really hard time believing that a person doesn't suffer, when they die...no matter what. no use in me trying to convince myself otherwise, just to make myself feel better...


death=suffering..

it is what it is, to me...
Click to expand...

Not to get all the way over in to left field and off topic, but even in the Bible it compares death to being sleep. When some people die, they are obviously in pain. they grab at their chest, they may scream. it really is terrible. their pain receptors are going full force in their whole body, from their brain and they feel every bit of it as they die.

What people are hoping with Mj, and I one of them, is that when he died, that it didn't compute in his body that he was in pain. Maybe like he really fell to sleep rested and quiet and just never woke up.

I am not trying to convince you otherwise from your views. I was just explaining what i hope happened. What many hoped happened. That there was no pain.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Victoria83 said:
This is a very interesting thread, and thanks. I am not an EMT, but even I know that CPR is done on a hard-surface. That is simple logic. Murray is a large man, and would have had no problem putting little Michael on the floor, immediately. I know that if a general anesthetic is given, the person should be monitored and rescue equipment and drugs close-at-hand. That is obvious. By no means should the person ever be left alone. When surgery is done, there is always a division of roles. A surgeon, and an anesthesiologist. And nurses present. Even in a dentist's office, the dentist has a nurse there, and is not alone in giving anesthesia. I know this from my own personal experience, and that of my family.

There is no indication that Murray was a stupid man. He does not have a long history of medical mistakes/stupidities. He has a medical degree. He ran a cardiology clinic. He was caring for the most famous person in the world. He apparently had only ONE patient. How could this have been a "mistake?" How is that even possible? There remain many unanswered questions. . . . .
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you said here but now will add my thoughts.

I do believe Michael knew this as well and this is why he was looking for another doctor or nurse to be there as well. What baffles me is why Michael allowed this to be done by one man without proper equipment handy. He should have known better.

It leads me to wonder what really happened here. Were they using the Propofol other nights? Were they using the Lorazepam other nights? Were they trying to get an assistant there? What was Michael himself thinking?

It is very difficult to stay awake all night monitoring a single patient even if thats your only job. I have worked nights. I have worked 12 hour nights. I used to sleep ALL DAY for at least 8 or 9 hours sometimes and STILL I was tired. Propofol comes out of your lungs and into the surrounding air. That room was hot.

I can't even imagine if Michael told me he would give ME 500,000.00 a week to sit there if I could have done it even WITH proper equipment. I would have wanted a pulse oximeter with a loud alarm, a heart monitor with a loud alarm, etc in the event I fell asleep. It all just makes a recipe for disaster.

So, there are many things I question.

BUT keep in mind here that the heat in that room would not have been any benefit AFTER the fact because it speeds up everything Murray would have tried to cover up.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

ginvid said:
Not to get all the way over in to left field and off topic, but even in the Bible it compares death to being sleep. When some people die, they are obviously in pain. they grab at their chest, they may scream. it really is terrible. their pain receptors are going full force in their whole body, from their brain and they feel every bit of it as they die.

What people are hoping with Mj, and I one of them, is that when he died, that it didn't compute in his body that he was in pain. Maybe like he really fell to sleep rested and quiet and just never woke up.

I am not trying to convince you otherwise from your views. I was just explaining what i hope happened. What many hoped happened. That there was no pain.
Click to expand...

I have seen a lot of people die. I have NEVER seen one scream out in pain. Also, if he was given Propofol in the amount we know he gave, believe me...it was totally peaceful for him. If NOTHING else, KNOW that.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Thank you for posting justthefacts. It pretty much confirms everything we have heard.
I am thankful it seems Michael did not suffer.
Dr.Murray is a b*t*rd.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Beachlover said:
I have seen a lot of people die. I have NEVER seen one scream out in pain. Also, if he was given Propofol in the amount we know he gave, believe me...it was totally peaceful for him. If NOTHING else, KNOW that.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. My dad died of a stroke, my uncle said right before he died ( became brain dead) he cried out and grabbed his head and his eye. that was the kind of thing I was talking about. They may cry out because of pain before they fall asleep.

It does make me feel better to know that about MJ. I wish that had happened for my dad. I think that is what people mean when they say that about people suffering before they died, even though as VNC said, death does equate to suffering.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

Beachlover said:
I have seen a lot of people die. I have NEVER seen one scream out in pain. Also, if he was given Propofol in the amount we know he gave, believe me...it was totally peaceful for him. If NOTHING else, KNOW that.
Click to expand...
I agree...this is why in my post..I stated he just went to sleep....Bless him..he felt no pain.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

ginvid said:
Thanks for that. My dad died of a stroke, my uncle said right before he died ( became brain dead) he cried out and grabbed his head and his eye. that was the kind of thing I was talking about. They may cry out because of pain before they fall asleep.

It does make me feel better to know that about MJ. I wish that had happened for my dad. I think that is what people mean when they say that about people suffering before they died, even though as VNC said, death does equate to suffering.
Click to expand...

You know, here is a funny thing. Often when people are injured or in such pain they pass out, or things like that, our brains tend to 'skip' over that part when and if we recover. We don't remember that. We may remember thinking 'pain' but we often can't recall feeling it. I think sometimes people cry out because they know something is wrong but not necessarily they feel pain. We can never always know, but I think this is often true.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

I want Murray under oath. Did he leave MJ alone to go to the restroom or was he talking to his girlfriend? why didn't he use any monitoring equipment? There are just too many unanswered questions.
 
Re: What a nurse thinks

sloride said:
The trial is going to have a lot of medical accounts such as this one and medical professionals giving their expert opinion. What seems to be the overwhelming opinion is that Murray pretty much killed Michael in seconds and was lying about the propofol. My mum's an auxillary nurse so she's had proper first aid training. She has always said to me that Murray doing CPR on the bed shows that he knew Michael was already dead as everyone knows that you immediatly put the person on the floor. Its pointless on a bed as all you're doing is pushing the matress down showing that a) Michael was already dead or 2) Murray did not want to save him.
Click to expand...
Yup, michael was dead.
 
Last edited:
Re: What a nurse thinks

what do you mean people don't suffer when they die? of course some people will die in pain, my father had cancer and his organs shut down one after the other he died in pain no one can tell me he didn't. and there are so many ways in which people die that are painful BUT in Michael's case he was unconscious, I want to believe he was because in that case he didn't feel anything
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top