Cascio Tracks Debate Thread

[larry141094]

I think people would like an actual DEBATE as apposed to a childish squabble, and at the same time we don't want it popping up in every single forum we goto, so why not make a thread for it?
Although there will be rules (so it's fair and theres not too much madness)

1. DO NOT tell people to shut up or insult anyone for any reason
2. Speculation IS allowed but speculation without a strong fact to back it up may not be counted in the final result.
3. NO GOD SPEAK! or in other words "Michael wouldn't write those lyrics", in other words suggesting something as fact without back up.
4. NO spam, 1 post at a time please, so yes that means you will have to multiquote at times.
5. Be mature, this is a debate, not an argument.
6. Every week a new debate topic is put forward (THIS WEEK IS STREET CRED, READ ON PG9)
7. STAY ON THE TOPIC!!!

How will this be judged? well, a collation of all facts and STRONG speculation at the set date of January 19th 2011. I would also like to convey that if you are not willing to listen to other people and take on board evidence as well as strong speculation in an objective manner, i suggest you don't take part.

LET THE DEBATE BEGIN!

 

[earthlyme]

ummm I dont think this will turn out that good cuz we've all seen the debate all over the threads that have been created so far.

But Here is what I think. take it or leave it!

For people who say its Malachi singing it in the parts where Michael is singing it, I think you should check y'all selves again cuz The person(J. Malachi) has said it Wasnt him and to keep on brining his name after that is just silly, stupid and unfair. How is it that we Demand that its Malachi when the PERSON has said it aint him??? Look at it from this view, when Michael said he had vitiligo, people didnt believe him and continued to spread rumors about him wanting to change his skin.

Now I want to ask you, Who knows You as a person than yourself? Imagine if ppl. labeled you as something which you clearly are not? this is what is happening right now. The Jackson family started this... I have some respect for them but when it comes to Michael, they've done some things wrong and this is one of it.

This is just speculation and NOT A FACT! There are ppl. from TINI sayin' the Album *Michael* is not Michael... Ok, REALLY? Thats just messed up man! If you think the 3 songs are NOT Michael, then Get your facts ready and up them out cuz with just speculating that Jason Malachi is singing the parts is very wrong.

Like i said, this is my Opinion, take it or leave it...


L.o.v.e.
Romi

 

[KOPV]

when I tried opening a debate thread it was closed... stating that there are too many threads like it.. even though I stated that we should keep it in here so we don't have to read it everywhere... BUT!!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Here are some subquestions for the debate:

-Why are Cascio tracks debated at all if Michael -as some of you say- sing them?
-Why does Teddy Riley say that Michael sounds different on those tracks and feels the need to justify it?
-As Teddy puts it so well, Michael sounds different on those tracks, but do we fans want that different voice on all the future songs?
-How come nobody questions other 7 tracks?
-Can we conclude that Michael indeed sounds different (if it is him) on those tracks?
-How come that those who believe it is Michael singing are not bothered by that difference?
-How come that actually some fans do not hear the difference in those three tracks at all?

 

[J_H]

In 2007 Michael recorded 12 songs in the Cascios home studio.
One of them is Water. As far as I know, Michael sang a bit of Water in This Is It.
If the "Water, water, water" was really a part of the song Water , then this proves that Michael really did the "Cascio Tracks". So why hire an impersonator if they have the real deal?

 

[Arklove]

Here are some subquestions for the debate:

-Why are Cascio tracks debated at all if Michael -as some of you say- sing them?
-Why does Teddy Riley say that Michael sounds different on those tracks and feels the need to justify it?
-As Teddy puts it so well, Michael sounds different on those tracks, but do we fans want that different voice on all the future songs?
-How come nobody questions other 7 tracks?
-Can we conclude that Michael indeed sounds different (if it is him) on those tracks?
-How come that those who believe it is Michael singing are not bothered by that difference?
-How come that actually some fans do not hear the difference in those three tracks at all?[/QUOTE]

Good questions....Very thought-provoking....Especially the bolded...I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I sincerely would like to know how they do not hear the difference? I'd like to hear what they hear...This is honest pondering for me...

 

[MJsweden]

For people who say its Malachi singing it in the parts where Michael is singing it, I think you should check y'all selves again cuz The person(J. Malachi) has said it Wasnt him and to keep on brining his name after that is just silly, stupid and unfair. How is it that we Demand that its Malachi when the PERSON has said it aint him??? Look at it from this view, when Michael said he had vitiligo, people didnt believe him and continued to spread rumors about him wanting to change his skin.

Now I want to ask you, Who knows You as a person than yourself? Imagine if ppl. labeled you as something which you clearly are not? this is what is happening right now. The Jackson family started this... I have some respect for them but when it comes to Michael, they've done some things wrong and this is one of it.

This is just speculation and NOT A FACT! There are ppl. from TINI sayin' the Album *Michael* is not Michael... Ok, REALLY? Thats just messed up man! If you think the 3 songs are NOT Michael, then Get your facts ready and up them out cuz with just speculating that Jason Malachi is singing the parts is very wrong.

Great Post:angel:

 

[love is magical]

Here are some subquestions for the debate:

-Why are Cascio tracks debated at all if Michael -as some of you say- sing them?
-Why does Teddy Riley say that Michael sounds different on those tracks and feels the need to justify it?
-As Teddy puts it so well, Michael sounds different on those tracks, but do we fans want that different voice on all the future songs?
-How come nobody questions other 7 tracks?
-Can we conclude that Michael indeed sounds different (if it is him) on those tracks?
-How come that those who believe it is Michael singing are not bothered by that difference?
-How come that actually some fans do not hear the difference in those three tracks at all?[/QUOTE]

Good questions....Very thought-provoking....Especially the bolded...I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I sincerely would like to know how they do not hear the difference? I'd like to hear what they hear...This is honest pondering for me...

I also want to know the answers to the bolded questions.

Do some fans sincerely not hear any difference in those tracks at all?

For the one who hear the difference and accept the tracks because they realize a lot of studio tweetings are necessary to bring these rough demos to releasable shape, do they really such treatment in Michael's demos in the future?

 

[Arklove]

I also want to know the answers to the bolded questions.

Do some fans sincerely not hear any difference in those tracks at all?

For the one who hear the difference and accept the tracks because they realize a lot of studio tweetings are necessary to bring these rough demos to releasable shape, do they really such treatment in Michael's demos in the future?

That's exactly it...IF these tracks turn out to be real, which they very well could be, I'm not disputing the fact that they COULD be...Being so processed and over-produced, and edited, and what not...Is this what we want future songs to sound like? I mean, even if the song is a sure-fire hit, it's sort of a pseudo-song...Not the real deal, regardless if vocals are real or not...I would just like them to stay in the vault; there is a reason that the songs were in such an incomplete stage...Just let them be! lol....If the songs barely had any vocals in them, WHY on earth would I want to hear someone else filling in the vocals? Then, to me, it's not a real, honest to goodness authentic Michael Jackson song...I'm a little tired of hearing people say, 'well, be happy with what we're getting, Michael's gone now...'...NO...this isn't how it works for me...It's my PLEASURE to hear MICHAEL sing 100% of the song..I don't believe that's too much to ask...I'm a fan of MICHAEL JACKSON...I won't accept anything less...

 

[Graf]

That's exactly it...IF these tracks turn out to be real, which they very well could be, I'm not disputing the fact that they COULD be...Being so processed and over-produced, and edited, and what not...Is this what we want future songs to sound like? I mean, even if the song is a sure-fire hit, it's sort of a pseudo-song...Not the real deal, regardless if vocals are real or not...I would just like them to stay in the vault; there is a reason that the songs were in such an incomplete stage...Just let them be! lol

I agree,was it really worth it for just 3 songs?...I mean if they put 3 accapellas of Demo's, without any processing, this album would be doing much better..There would be no "controversy", In my opinion fans would be united and everyone would be embracing this album completely...Yet for whatever reason they were so insistent on putting this Cascio tracks on them. :sigh: ...The songs them selves aren't bad, they just processed his voice beyond pure recognition, which is not the way to do things at all IMO. We listen/buy Michael's music for his unique,powerful, amazing voice...Not for something that sounds like a morphed version of it..w/e..I still bought my album

 

[MJsweden]

Do some fans sincerely not hear any difference in those tracks at all?

Listen To Songs Like: Shout,Privacy,Why You Wanna Trip On Me,Money,2000 Watts And So On. Then You Will Understand How We Think. And OMG!!!! OFC it's Mike?

 

[Arklove]

Listen To Songs Like: Shout,Privacy,Why You Wanna Trip On Me,Money,2000 Watts And So On. Then You Will Understand How We Think. And OMG!!!! OFC it's Mike?

Ok, I still don't understand that...But, I respect your opinion..

 

[Misayko]

Here are some subquestions for the debate:


-How come that those who believe it is Michael singing are not bothered by that difference?
-How come that actually some fans do not hear the difference in those three tracks at all?[/QUOTE]

Good questions....Very thought-provoking....Especially the bolded...I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I sincerely would like to know how they do not hear the difference? I'd like to hear what they hear...This is honest pondering for me...

I dont hear a difference. Whoever is singing the Cascio Songs is also singing on Best of Joy. And this is a "non- fake- song", isnt it?
so probably its just Michael singing on all tracks with someone else (james porte?) who sounds 'almost' the same.

 

[samhabib]

The mother of Michael Jackson claims the songs are fake. The children of Michael Jackson claim the songs are fake. And members of the family of Michael Jackson claim the songs are fake.

I would trust Michael's mother and his children (AND my own ears) over Teddy Riley's 'used car-salesman' spiel.

Michael's mother and children stand to gain financially from sales. It makes absolutely zero sense for them to claim it's not Michael if it is him.

 

[Misayko]

The mother of Michael Jackson claims the songs are fake. The children of Michael Jackson claim the songs are fake. And members of the family of Michael Jackson claim the songs are fake.

I would trust Michael's mother and his children (AND my own ears) over Teddy Riley's 'used car-salesman' spiel.

Michael's mother and children stand to gain financially from sales. It makes absolutely zero sense for them to claim it's not Michael if it is him.

#


what source was saying that almost all jackson fam members are claiming the songs are fake? i didnt see an interview with katherine or paris and prince..

 

[PCR]

In 2007 Michael recorded 12 songs in the Cascios home studio.
One of them is Water. As far as I know, Michael sang a bit of Water in This Is It.
If the "Water, water, water" was really a part of the song Water , then this proves that Michael really did the "Cascio Tracks". So why hire an impersonator if they have the real deal?

did he?
really? I had no idea about it (which doesn't mean at all your info is not truee, it only means my knowledge is quite limited ).

I guess MJ goes for Water, water, water just as an answer to KO request for him to have water... to be honest, I am not quite sure that can be use to prove anything :scratch:

 

[samhabib]

#


what source was saying that almost all jackson fam members are claiming the songs are fake? i didnt see an interview with katherine or paris and prince..

I know you didn't. The Sony-associated Harpo edited out Katherine and Michael's childrens comments.

Three to five of the 10-12 tracks on Michael, out December 14 on Sony, were allegedly recorded at the New Jersey home of producer Eddie Cascio in 2007, when Michael and his children stayed there for four months working on remixes for the 25th-anniversary reissue of Thriller. Michael's son, Prince Michael, said this week that none of what he heard recorded then matches what he hears now on Michael, and that he believes the Cascio cuts were recorded posthumously by a Michael soundalike. Prince's sister, Paris, corroborated these claims--as did Michael's mother, Katherine, during an Oprah interview. Joe Jackson, Michael's dad, also protested the songs via a statement by his attorney.

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/thatsreallyweek/113631/nov-1-7-is-it-michael-or-is-it-memorex

 

[dangerous_88]

another thread about these songs? seriously guys? I feel sorry for Gaz and the mods, this has gone way out of control

 

[loka]

In 2007 Michael recorded 12 songs in the Cascios home studio.
One of them is Water. As far as I know, Michael sang a bit of Water in This Is It.
If the "Water, water, water" was really a part of the song Water , then this proves that Michael really did the "Cascio Tracks". So why hire an impersonator if they have the real deal?

do we have the complete list somewhere ?

 

[Misayko]

another thread about these songs? seriously guys? I feel sorry for Gaz and the mods, this has gone way out of control

i believe the reason is simply that this argument will not come up in every other thread as well. so i think its a good idea.

 

[love is magical]

Listen To Songs Like: Shout,Privacy,Why You Wanna Trip On Me,Money,2000 Watts And So On. Then You Will Understand How We Think. And OMG!!!! OFC it's Mike?

Interesting. Because the above list of songs are mentioned a gazillion times.

Shout, Privacy, WYWTOM, Money: I never have doubt in one single nano second. To these days, I still don't know why people point those songs out. What makes those songs so stand out?

2000 Watts: I was in awe instead of in doubt the first time I listened to it. May be I know how low Michael's voice can go.

In all of the above songs, despite the difference in pitch and style, the power and the richness of Michael's voice are there. The singing technique is impeccable. I don't think anyone can sing Shout the way Michael did.

Again, I understand they need to do all the studio tricks to bring the demos to releasable conditions. I understand the lack of body in Michael's voice is due to audio clean up. But, I surely don't want to hear a super autotuned Michael Jackson song in future release. I hope Sony takes note.

 

[love is magical]

did he?
really? I had no idea about it (which doesn't mean at all your info is not truee, it only means my knowledge is quite limited ).

I guess MJ goes for Water, water, water just as an answer to KO request for him to have water... to be honest, I am not quite sure that can be use to prove anything :scratch:

I also think Michael was just responding to Kenny. Michael was just so musical. He could turn a simple answer into a song.

 

[J_H]

did he?
really? I had no idea about it (which doesn't mean at all your info is not truee, it only means my knowledge is quite limited ).

I guess MJ goes for Water, water, water just as an answer to KO request for him to have water... to be honest, I am not quite sure that can be use to prove anything :scratch:

I'm referring to this thread: http://mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91052
I know the info is from that Friedman guy but he was right with Breaking News.
It could really just be an answer to the request of Ortega but he was going to perform some of the new songs in London, like Best of Joy and maybe some of the Cascio tracks.

 

[MJsweden]

I Just Thought About This: I Think We Are Saying Stuff Like: It Is Not Mike On Monster,Breaking News,Keep Your head Up Because Mike Isn't Releasing The Album. Like On Invincible For Privacy, He Was Here, Releasing It And Stuff. Now People Are Unsure Because He Is Not Here Anymore.

 

[Ohood]

SO ! Sony paid for hundreds of people like , producres , experts , artists, engeenrers and media millions of dollars to include 3 fake songs , although they have hundreds of free of charge songs !and all these people are long time friends and professional rich people!

this is the most stupid theory i heard in my whole life !

 

[Ohood]

another thing,,,,do not post things like Prince said this and Paris said that becuase you know it is Joe co, who said this ,,,please do not include Michael's kids in this farce !

 

[loka]

some fans see a similaritie between "all i need" and this track from Malachi

Jason Malachi_"All That You Need Is In You"

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7rhc4_jason-malachi-all-that-you-need-is_music

 

[samhabib]

another thing,,,,do not post things like Prince said this and Paris said that becuase you know it is Joe co, who said this ,,,please do not include Michael's kids in this farce !

So Michael Jackson's children can't be believed? Is that what you're saying? I really can't believe Michael Jackson fans would claim that Michael Jackson's children are liars. It's completely unbelievable to me to be honest.

 

[love is magical]

So Michael Jackson's children can't be believed? Is that what you're saying? I really can't believe Michael Jackson fans would claim that Michael Jackson's children are liars. It's completely unbelievable to me to be honest.

To be fair, we don't know what the children have said or have not said. We all know how bad the media is. Quotes from RF are not trustworthy.

I agree that the children should not be brought up in this discussion.

 

[michaeljojacksonfan]

Okay lets just say that songs are indeed 'fake' and not MJ. What would Sony/the estates reason be for doing this? Lets think about that. Because i can't work that one out!