Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date April 2, 2013

[yaazgurl]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Well the autopsy also indicates he was healthy. Also I don't know why people are hailing this Patrick Traecy if he is saying he also gave MJ propofol while he was in Ireland. That does not help MJs case and only assisted in giving him a false sense of security regarding the danger of propofo. It should never have been used for sleep period.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

well as MJ's personal physician, why didn't Murray tell AEG that MJ was not fit to perform? why was Murray telling Randy Phillips, Kenny Oretega and Frank Dileo that MJ was fine and healthy? if Murray felt his patient was too sick to do a 50 date tour then why the hell didn't he say something? Murray is trying to find anything to defend himself from his guilt

How do we know he didn't tell them?....They will NEVER publically admit that they knew that Michael wasn't right....then again they did..when Randy Phillips said that he was afraid for Michael and that he had to go to Michael's house and physically make him go to rehearsals..that to me pretty much says that they knew that Michael was never gonna make those concerts....and they really didn't much care how Michael was feeling....as long as he showed up..they were fine....Michael passed away..they still used his name to make money...the made TII..,,I just dont see how folks cannot see that AEG is involved in Michael's death...they had more to do with it than meets the eye..it is a plain as the nose on your face.. If they admitted everything that they knew...then they know they would be held accountable.they are NOT stupid...they will deny until the bitter end,

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Really? Learn new things every day... Define what 'fine' is to you. What the autopsy says? What some paper full of inconsistencies that his report really is? Some can see with their own eyes. And 61 kilograms (he was reported to have had) for his height is not that good of a weight. He was always thin, yet not sickly thin as he was becoming.



Yeah, sure he was, with that much pressure and threats from AEG themselves, he was 5 people in one. Working to death, because he Didn't have the time to finish, which they really didn't finish. He hired a Doctor, who, by the words of Kai Chase, also monitored his food, what he ate, and she said he ate healthy and drank healthy.......0_0 Judging this cold sure can make any enemy dance, not to mention Murray, his defense and AEG.




And you know this for sure how exactly? Not to mention saying there was nothing wrong with Michael physically again is dumbfounding and contradicts with your basically admitting that he was thin, which you did. Silly to blame them? How is it their fault? I guess all previous posts do nothing for some, that is if those same 'some' care to read them in the first place or really take time and dig deep themselves before replying.

.....

He was 136lbs which is in the healthy range for his weight. We also don't know how much he lost in that time period. He could had only lost 5 to 10lbs and it would seem like more for someone of Michael's figure. So saying he was becoming sickly thin cannot be proven because he wasn't sickly thin when he died.

Also, look at Michael customs. If he wanted to gain weight before the concerts, the designer would had put some room to grow in the outfits. Those customs would had fit Michael like a glove at the weight he was at when he died. So, how do you know if Michael didn't lost the weight on purpose because he thought he was physically better at that size, regardless what fans, family, or AEG thought. Are you trying to say you knew Michael's body better than him?

"Yeah, sure he was, with that much pressure and threats from AEG themselves, he was 5 people in one." Where did this come from? Where in any official report did AEG 'threaten' Michael? I seen my reports about Joe given Michael grief, not AEG. I also find it funny how some fans now what people to believe that AEG somehow made Michael work too hard. Even when Michael lived with his family, they said he would work so hard that he would collapsed on the dance floor and would stay up passed all hours to work on music. So suddenly, AEG is the reason he was working so hard, broke the budget, and kept adding to his own shows?

I also don't see what is the big deal about Kai Chase monitoring what he ate. It is not like he is the first star to do something like that and you don't have to be ill or sick to do it.

Finally, if you paid any attention to TII they were several people wearing layers, not just Michael. They were people wearing sweat suits and the guitar was wearing a full leather jacket in June, but no one said a thing. Also, going back to Michael's customs, those things were thick and he was going to be dancing in them. So, he was going to get hot there, so what different did it make if he wore multi-layer clothes. Also, being cold doesn't mean you are sick. My grandma and mom complains about being cold all the time and they perfectly healthy.

If Michael was sick, as some of you are trying to push, it would had been reported in the autopsy. Even the common cold would had been found in his blood and lungs, but the corona said nothing. If there was anything physically wrong with Michael, Murray could easily used it for his defense.

In the end, I think you should take your own advise about posting.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Really? Learn new things every day... Define what 'fine' is to you. What the autopsy says? What some paper full of inconsistencies that his report really is? Some can see with their own eyes. And 61 kilograms (he was reported to have had) for his height is not that good of a weight. He was always thin, yet not sickly thin as he was becoming.



Yeah, sure he was, with that much pressure and threats from AEG themselves, he was 5 people in one. Working to death, because he Didn't have the time to finish, which they really didn't finish. He hired a Doctor, who, by the words of Kai Chase, also monitored his food, what he ate, and she said he ate healthy and drank healthy.......0_0 Judging this cold sure can make any enemy dance, not to mention Murray, his defense and AEG.




And you know this for sure how exactly? Not to mention saying there was nothing wrong with Michael physically again is dumbfounding and contradicts with your basically admitting that he was thin, which you did. Silly to blame them? How is it their fault? I guess all previous posts do nothing for some, that is if those same 'some' care to read them in the first place or really take time and dig deep themselves before replying.

.....

Michael was a grown man who could take care of his damn self. Maybe you are not used to seeing people at a proper weight but guess what he was maybe you should go find a BMI calendar and that will tell you that. And if Michael was cold he put a jacket on if he was hungry he ate if he needed to take a break he took one. There was noting wrong with Michael Jackson and if there was it was up to Michael Jackson at AEG to take care of himself. You keep saying AEG threatened him show me one threat?

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

People need to stop acting like Michael was mentally unable to dress or feed and take care of himself.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

How come anyone says this defense strategy will incriminate Murray even more ? Does anyone realise that Murray did not admit he had given MJ what he wanted ? 50 mg daily or 25 doses would not have even induced sleep so how come they would have damaged MJ? Does anyone realise that Murray's whole defense has been , MJ was an addict and even if I told him to beat it, he would have hired another one to get his fix of propofol, I agreed but did not do what he was expecting me to do, he wanted HUGE amounts everyday, the amounts I gave would not have done anything but he believed once he took propofol everything would have been fine, he was psychologically dependent on the drug. Does anyone realise that Chernoff will call no one but Kathrine to make this point. He will make her repeat what she told Oprah "I once asked his plastic surgeon to fake everything cus my son was such an addict and there was no way to stop him" Chernoff will say Murray did what Katherine did, the plastic surgeon was irresponsible doctor took advantage of his patient and did what MJ wanted him to do, on the other hand Murray convinced MJ he was doing what he hired him to do , but in fact he was not. As his mother said, as his sister Janet said, Mr.Jackson was beyond help, Mr.Jackson did what he wanted and out of frustration, out of desperation he waited Murray to leave the room to inject the fatal dose.

Is this a plausible theory? when you say he was an addict, you tried to intervene endless times, he was in a weak mental and physical state, he was financially dependent on others, he was going to lose everything if he did not sleep, the jurors will think it's a plausible theory, Michael Jackson was a troubled man with a troubled life, no one could have saved him and it's very likely he waited Dr.Murray to leave to inject propofol .

Do you realise how damaging to the prosecution's face were the claims spread by the family along with some "fans" ? And some of you have the nerve to ask for second degree murder and first degree murder charges !!!!!

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

How do we know he didn't tell them?....They will NEVER publically admit that they knew that Michael wasn't right....then again they did..when Randy Phillips said that he was afraid for Michael and that he had to go to Michael's house and physically make him go to rehearsals..that to me pretty much says that they knew that Michael was never gonna make those concerts....and they really didn't much care how Michael was feeling....as long as he showed up..they were fine....Michael passed away..they still used his name to make money...the made TII..,,I just dont see how folks cannot see that AEG is involved in Michael's death...they had more to do with it than meets the eye..it is a plain as the nose on your face.. If they admitted everything that they knew...then they know they would be held accountable.they are NOT stupid...they will deny until the bitter end,

Sorry, but Michael was physically fine, his inability to sleep none withstanding. It is not AEG's job to care for Michael. As long as he could physically do the concerts and they provided a safe environment, like no bridge fallen when he is on it, then they are not legally responsibility for people that Michael let into his house.

Michael was a grown man and he held responsibilities to his own health, not AEG. If Michael wasn't feeling well, he should had done something about it, not AEG. Saying AEG should had done this and that it taking away any adult responsibilities Michael had. I know this is not your intention, but this is what you are doing. You and some other fans have reduce Michael to a child in order to make him blameless for everything that has happen.

The truth of the matter, Michael is to blame for some of what has happened. He should had never hire Murray or taking this drug to sleep, plain and simple. However, he has already paid the price for his mistake, which was too high, imo. Now, it is Murray's turn to pay the price for being stupid.

However, to say AEG somehow should had baby Michael is not their job, no matter how much you and others want it to be. Which is why this lawsuit had no merit.

Also, Randy Phillips never said what you wrote. He never said he force Michael to go to rehearsals or he couldn't make the concerts. The people who made such claims and put it in Randy's mouth was TINI. If you're going to quote someone, use their actually quotes and not what they suppose to have said to some unknown source.

 

[twinklEE]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

People need to stop acting like Michael was mentally unable to dress or feed and take care of himself.

For real

 

[StacyJ]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Oh Soundmind, I definitely agree that Janet, Katherine and others will be called to the stand by Murray. I swear they make me sick

 

[ScrEAm.Jack5on]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Also I don't know why people are hailing this Patrick Traecy if he is saying he also gave MJ propofol while he was in Ireland. That does not help MJs case and only assisted in giving him a false sense of security regarding the danger of propofo. It should never have been used for sleep period.

From what I have read, Dr. Traecy said MJ refused to have propofol without there being an anaesthetist present, and he never said he used it for sleep, he said it was for a procedure. There is a thread in the case section.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

People need to stop acting like Michael was mentally unable to dress or feed and take care of himself.

THANK YOU! I hate how MJ is made to be some decrepit addled brained simpleton or worse a minor child. He was 50, a brilliant entertainer and person. But even being that, he made some devastating misjudgements in his life. The last one was entrusting his treatment for a chronic sleep condition to a careless, wreckless, arrogant, money grubbing opportunistic doctor, who did not give him the attentive care required for the treatment he was administering.

 

[kasume]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Originally Posted by yaazgurl
Also I don't know why people are hailing this Patrick Traecy if he is saying he also gave MJ propofol while he was in Ireland. That does not help MJs case and only assisted in giving him a false sense of security regarding the danger of propofo. It should never have been used for sleep period.

From what I have read, Dr. Traecy said MJ refused to have propofol without there being an anaesthetist present, and he never said he used it for sleep, he said it was for a procedure. There is a thread in the case section.

That is exactly what he said. And he said that when he DID prescribe Michael medications, NONE of them were for insomina, more for like a cold. He says he may be witness at the trial, not the prelims.

And not only propofol, but he said Michael refused drugs LESS powerful than propofol without an anesthest also. Without going into conspiracy, I can state the fact that Dr. Treacy says he believes Murray "did it on purpose." I believe this man. He says he has graphic evidence. And has mentioned being offered five to six figures to say bad things about Michael.

in case anyone gets their facts mixed up on what this doctor has said, please go to his thread in the case section where you can hear his interview. he did another longer one recently.

 

[Alma]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

"Yeah, sure he was, with that much pressure and threats from AEG themselves, he was 5 people in one." Where did this come from? Where in any official report did AEG 'threaten' Michael? I seen my reports about Joe given Michael grief, not AEG. I also find it funny how some fans now what people to believe that AEG somehow made Michael work too hard. Even when Michael lived with his family, they said he would work so hard that he would collapsed on the dance floor and would stay up passed all hours to work on music. So suddenly, AEG is the reason he was working so hard, broke the budget, and kept adding to his own shows?

Okay, people are gonna need official reports... People should only believe what they see written in paper, right? Have you read any of the other posts here where it's explained a lot how much emotional turmoil the AEG really caused him? No? Did you read any of Randy Philips's interviews and analysed them? No, none of that? Then your post is full of holes and no worth repeating what's been said Before, reading selectively is occuring often, nothing surprising.

I also don't see what is the big deal about Kai Chase monitoring what he ate. It is not like he is the first star to do something like that and you don't have to be ill or sick to do it.

Re-read what was really said, which was that she said Murray took the breakfasts and all to Michael's room, allegedly he monitored the food, didn't say it was Kai Chase the one who did it, and that's not even such an important paragraph to pick upon. The point that was made on this was that Michael did concern himself with eating healthy for the tour, that's all it was said.[/QUOTE]

Also, being cold doesn't mean you are sick. My grandma and mom complains about being cold all the time and they perfectly healthy..

Jackson room was of an unbearably high temperature, read reports attesting to that, as well as what nurse Cheryl Lee says about Michael crying on the phone, feeling sick a few days before June 25, because of complaining of feeling hot on one side and cold on the other. I understand what you're saying about your grandmother, my mother feel very cold often, there are people and people, as well as more than one reason for being cold; but Jackson's very high temperature in his room does raise some flags. It's your choice to believe these or not, not my concern, in the end.

If Michael was sick, as some of you are trying to push, it would had been reported in the autopsy. Even the common cold would had been found in his blood and lungs, but the corona said nothing. If there was anything physically wrong with Michael, Murray could easily used it for his defense.

Who's trying to push that he was sick? All I've said was that he wasn't perfectly healthy, like Philips loved to boast. He did have a chronic bronchitis, afterall. That's not perfectly healthy, and also, I'm not implying that his health was the reason he passed. The reason he passed in the end was Murray giving propofol to an insomniac. Insomnia... isn't that an illness that needs to be treated? When he cried that night of feeling sick, Murray didn't take him to the hospital, he wanted to see the nurse, and she said she couldn't come to him, so he did Ask for health. If one thinks that complaining of feeling both hot and cold and being an insomniac aren't health-related.... How exactly could Murray use Michael's health as a tool for the defense? Wouldn't that drag him in the mud, really? They're going by saying that he was addicted to drugs, so how exactly does that help.. prescribing Propofol to an 'addict' (that they wanna portray him as) for insomnia?[/QUOTE]

In the end, I think you should take your own advise about posting.

Read previous posts, as this isn't the second time I've been replying in the thread. I wasn't even addressing you on that and you just come out of nowhere teaching members how to post..

 

[kasume]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Okay, people are gonna need official reports... People should only believe what they see written in paper, right? Have you read any of the other posts here where it's explained a lot how much emotional turmoil the AEG really caused him? No? Did you read any of Randy Philips's interviews and analysed them? No, none of that? Then your post is full of holes and no worth repeating what's been said Before, reading selectively is occuring often, nothing surprising.

Agree. We have to listen to what people say with their own tongues as well.

Jackson room was of an unbearably high temperature, read reports attesting to that, as well as what nurse Cheryl Lee says about Michael crying on the phone, feeling sick a few days before June 25, because of complaining of feeling hot on one side and cold on the other. I understand what you're saying about your grandmother, my mother feel very cold often, there are people and people, as well as more than one reason for being cold; but Jackson's very high temperature in his room does raise some flags. It's your choice to believe these or not, not my concern, in the end.

that temperature was reported to be stiffling hot!! In the high 80s or possibly 90s. I remember reading from someone else that Michael like to sleep with his window open......

How can I trust cherilyn lee when she contradicts her own self????

Who's trying to push that he was sick? All I've said was that he wasn't perfectly healthy, like Philips loved to boast. He did have a chronic bronchitis, afterall. That's not perfectly healthy, and also, I'm not implying that his health was the reason he passed. The reason he passed in the end was Murray giving propofol to an insomniac. Insomnia... isn't that an illness that needs to be treated? When he cried that night of feeling sick, Murray didn't take him to the hospital, he wanted to see the nurse, and she said she couldn't come to him, so he did Ask for health. If one thinks that complaining of feeling both hot and cold and being an insomniac aren't health-related.... How exactly could Murray use Michael's health as a tool for the defense? Wouldn't that drag him in the mud, really? They're going by saying that he was addicted to drugs, so how exactly does that help.. prescribing Propofol to an 'addict' (that they wanna portray him as) for insomnia?

According to autopsy, medical experts have yet deemed that Michael passed with health issues, and have yet to label Michael a drug addict. That is why Murray's defense is that Michael killed himself/or committed suicide.

Originally Posted by Ramona122003
"Yeah, sure he was, with that much pressure and threats from AEG themselves, he was 5 people in one." Where did this come from? Where in any official report did AEG 'threaten' Michael? I seen my reports about Joe given Michael grief, not AEG. I also find it funny how some fans now what people to believe that AEG somehow made Michael work too hard. Even when Michael lived with his family, they said he would work so hard that he would collapsed on the dance floor and would stay up passed all hours to work on music. So suddenly, AEG is the reason he was working so hard, broke the budget, and kept adding to his own shows?

They said if Michael didn't go to rehearsals they were going to "pull the plug". That's threatening. And strangely, AEG declined to comment on that matter.

I stay up pass all hours as well and write. That does not mean I'm working too hard. And there's nothing wrong with collapsing on the dance floor when you're doing physical activity like that which keeps the heart pumping blood. It doesn't mean you're not healthy. It means your getting more healthy or already are healthy. Dancing keeps your heart pumping blood and at a nice rate, which makes one healthy.

Where did you read that Michael was the one adding to his own shows?

Yes, Michael said he was a workaholic, so the amount that he puts into his work, may seem hard FOR OTHERS. Also, all the TII Dancers say Michael was on fire at rehearsals. HOWEVER, can't know for sure whether Michael really wanted 50 shows all in one place. Michael is not here to speak for himself. All we can go buy is everything he has written to us, and told us in the past.

 

[Alma]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Michael was a grown man who could take care of his damn self. Maybe you are not used to seeing people at a proper weight but guess what he was maybe you should go find a BMI calendar and that will tell you that. And if Michael was cold he put a jacket on if he was hungry he ate if he needed to take a break he took one. There was noting wrong with Michael Jackson and if there was it was up to Michael Jackson at AEG to take care of himself. You keep saying AEG threatened him show me one threat?

The passion some are defending AEG (and throwing sheer poison at the Jacksons) is astoiunding. Justthefacts... and rushed members like you, go back to a few posts, and say where exactly are people suggesting he was the man you're saying he was? Are you aware of the circumstances surrounding him the last few months of his life? And assuming I'm not used to seeing people at their normal weight is just a childish remark in the absence of a more substantial assertion. If you go by what Kenny Ortega was saying, that (and that's not even flattering for them), that he was nervous for Michael, because up until the last 2 days, where he seemed to have been bucking up a bit (coincidentally how much, much of the selected footage for the released This Is It rehearsals were from the last 2 days, a lot), Michael wasn't coming off as too confident, not the exact words, but Randy Philips words were clearer, can't find the article at the moment, quoting from memory, but Im sure he said that. And you think it's wham-bam.. that simple to say "If he's hungry, he'll eat, if he's cold, he'll dress"... really? The problem with Jackson was that when deep in work as he was, he forgets to do that, the solution would have been for AEG to postpone some shows, at least, not send him to 'war' not really prepared, with so many unfinished things left.....and if he's cold.... It's a really simple assumption to use, like he had been cold just like that.

"On June 21, Cheryll Lee received a foreboding call from a Jackson aide. Lee said Jackson's aide told her the singer needed to see her right away.

"I could hear Michael in the background: 'Tell her. Tell her that one side of my body is hot, is hot, and one side of my body is cold, it's very cold,'" Lee said. "And I said, 'tell him he needs to go to the hospital.'

"I knew that somebody had given him something that hit that central nervous system," she said. "He was in trouble."

On Easter 2009, registered nurse Cherilyn Lee said Jackson had called her, frantically begging for propofol, the intravenous anesthetic, saying he needed it to sleep.

"He said, 'Find me an anesthesiologist. I don't care how much money they want,'" Lee recounted. "

Yeah, he said he needed an anaestheseologist. He also told her his doctor (Murray, maybe) told him it was safe with the proper monitoring. Did that happen really? You say it was Michael Jackson's responsibility to take care of himself. Didn't he try to do it>? Didn't he try to find a doctor to monitor him properly? Why didn't nobody cared to Treat his insomnia, if we're to ask desperate people who can't sleep to treat themselves, instead of being helped by the people they hire to care for them precisely because they wanna live somehow, and he had 50 concerts to honor, you still say it was up to him to take care of himself. he did work out, did try to eat and hydrate, but he couldn't sleep, because of insomnia. Is that still not clear? "Hey, you insomniac, if you're tired, go to sleep". "But I want a doctor to help me sleep". Here came Murray. You also said it was AEG's business to take care of him if he was unfit, how did they do that? Is "Do it or die" a lighthearted comment? Or going over to someone's house and tell them to get their butt to the rehearsals, like Philips said he did? Or what was the purpose for Jackson to say 'they' were so mean?... When he wanted... wanted, that's a big word, it was originally 10 shows he agreed to do, then they waxed because of 'demand'. Shoving more and more shows down his throat, when he didn't want to, having to cope with that, some should saying "Oh, but you don't have concrete proof", when there's elements and circumstances all pointing to how stressed he really was. It takes reading and associating too, very much so, that one shouldn't be forced to reiterate themselves all the time.

Being a grown, 50 year old man is not all it takes for a person to be careful not to die, he was as cautious as he could in his 50 years of life, but followed by an ongoing fear of not knowing who to trust and making bad decisions too from the Very fact that most did betray him. Lots of confusion too.

What are some doing here... Murray's defense could say what some here do "Well, MJ was a grown man whould could take care of his damn self"..... "Not my fault he hired me to help him with his insomnia, so I gave him Propofol, when he could treat himself..."....... What? This thread is Not going to turn into a "Michael Jackson did it to himself" one again...not when the trial (?) is around the corner... ?. It's quite clear it's AEG-friendly in places, not Murray, also, please...........

 

[Alma]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

that temperature was reported to be stiffling hot!! In the high 80s or possibly 90s. I remember reading from someone else that Michael like to sleep with his window open......

How can I trust cherilyn lee when she contradicts her own self????

Agree with most of what you're saying.

What I said was that Lee told on that Michael felt both hot and cold at the Same time (on June 21 when he had someone (Murray, I guess) tell her this..... So she wasn't contradicting herself, she said Michael could have been given something attacking the nervous system, hence the weird bipolar reactions. He was obviously given sth not good for him, henceforth his cry for help..But the reports stated that his room temperature was very hot. Stuffy almost, which means he generally felt really cold..

 

[Alma]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

THANK YOU! I hate how MJ is made to be some decrepit addled brained simpleton or worse a minor child.

If some didn't bother to embellish or even put words into someone's mouth, debates would be healthy, with such attitudes, they're bound to fail.

He was 50, a brilliant entertainer and person. But even being that, he made some devastating misjudgements in his life. The last one was entrusting his treatment for a chronic sleep condition to a careless, wreckless, arrogant, money grubbing opportunistic doctor, who did not give him the attentive care required for the treatment he was administering.

He wouldn't know how he was, surely, for real, would he have hired someone like Murray to ultimately kill him? Is also blaming the dead one a good thing? If this turns in this direction, who needs prosecution, really? Murray himself could say how Jackson was a grown man who hired 'an incompetent' like me.... That would the conclusion be, when a doctor gives or agrees to give Propofol to an insomniac without proper equipment. Have some heard of being confused and not knowing who or what to believe? Why do some rule out that Murray wasn't hired by AEG also? Because they need proof, right... Well, there many times when proofs never come or are counterfeited, if all we want is proof and only proof. That's not a way to blame AEG, but circumstances and some of their Own words are enough in the minds of some. Again, don't blame a dead man who was being pressured from all sides and wanting to sleep, And, this thread is not about Propofol.

 

[yaazgurl]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

From what I have read, Dr. Traecy said MJ refused to have propofol without there being an anaesthetist present, and he never said he used it for sleep, he said it was for a procedure. There is a thread in the case section.

Oh then it was my misunderstanding. I feel much better now and hope he is called as a witness because I have been having my doubts about MJ asking for propofol at all especially if he knew how it was supposed to be administetred.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

How exactly could Murray use Michael's health as a tool for the defense? Wouldn't that drag him in the mud, really? They're going by saying that he was addicted to drugs, so how exactly does that help.. prescribing Propofol to an 'addict' (that they wanna portray him as) for insomnia?

MJ visited Adams in March 2009 and the meeting was related to propofol, he asked Lee about propofol in April. He used it during the African leg of the History tour. Propofol was not really Murray's idea to begin with. Propofol was MJ's idea. In other words you can't say Murray came and prescribed propofol for insomnia from nowhere. That's a complete lie and I pray the prosecution won't be that stupid to go there and claim propofol was Murray's idea because once they start to LIE , the jurors will lose faith and confidence in everything else they say , the same happened to Sneddon.
Murray is claiming he was fooling "the addict" and not doing what "the addict" was expecting him to do. Murray did not at any point admit to anything that would have incriminated him regarding propofol and the doses daily given. He and his lawyers wrote a script and read it to investigators and in that script MJ was portrayed as someone with psychological dependency on drugs especially propofol and Murray was portrayed as the doctor who tried to treat that psychological dependency by PRETENDING it was being administered when it was not.
What his family has been claiming regarding their so called failed interventions, Katherine telling Oprah she once asked his plastic surgeon to fake operating on him because he was addicted to plastic surgery , his sister telling Oprah he did not listen to them help no one but Murray. It is what Murray's defence really wanted and needed to boost their theory and give credibility to their script.
The defence now as the prosecutor said are operating under the theory that MJ killed himself. Killed himself because he needed the propofol doses Murray was not giving him, he needed to sleep using propofol when Murray's doses were not enough to induce sleep ( 25 or 50 mg). The doctor left the room and MJ found an opportunity to do it himself.
All the defence needs to raise doubt in the jurors minds. He was an addict, graving for propofol, he could not be saved, he would be broke if he did not perform, he was under tremendous pressure and out of desperation he rapidly injected himself and ended his life. I'm sure at LEAST one of the jurors would take that into consideration before deciding whether to vote innocent or guilty.

 

[yaazgurl]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Thank you for clearing my misunderstanding up. I too believe Murray did it on purpose and I believe he had plenty of motive for doing so. Makes you wonder who else is being offered huge sums of money to call MJ an addict among other things.

That is exactly what he said. And he said that when he DID prescribe Michael medications, NONE of them were for insomina, more for like a cold. He says he may be witness at the trial, not the prelims.

And not only propofol, but he said Michael refused drugs LESS powerful than propofol without an anesthest also. Without going into conspiracy, I can state the fact that Dr. Treacy says he believes Murray "did it on purpose." I believe this man. He says he has graphic evidence. And has mentioned being offered five to six figures to say bad things about Michael.

in case anyone gets their facts mixed up on what this doctor has said, please go to his thread in the case section where you can hear his interview. he did another longer one recently.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

But Soundmind, would you buy that? I would ask why would Murray agree to propofol at all? did he think it was a good idea. Murray told the police that he was not the first doctor to 'introduce' propofol to MJ, and that others doctor did, so Murray kind of admitted that he told MJ it would be ok. I still don't see how Murray is not to blame. How was Murray giving the propofol previously?

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

The passion some are defending AEG (and throwing sheer poison at the Jacksons) is astoiunding. Justthefacts... and rushed members like you, go back to a few posts, and say where exactly are people suggesting he was the man you're saying he was? Are you aware of the circumstances surrounding him the last few months of his life? And assuming I'm not used to seeing people at their normal weight is just a childish remark in the absence of a more substantial assertion. If you go by what Kenny Ortega was saying, that (and that's not even flattering for them), that he was nervous for Michael, because up until the last 2 days, where he seemed to have been bucking up a bit (coincidentally how much, much of the selected footage for the released This Is It rehearsals were from the last 2 days, a lot), Michael wasn't coming off as too confident, not the exact words, but Randy Philips words were clearer, can't find the article at the moment, quoting from memory, but Im sure he said that. And you think it's wham-bam.. that simple to say "If he's hungry, he'll eat, if he's cold, he'll dress"... really? The problem with Jackson was that when deep in work as he was, he forgets to do that, the solution would have been for AEG to postpone some shows, at least, not send him to 'war' not really prepared, with so many unfinished things left.....and if he's cold.... It's a really simple assumption to use, like he had been cold just like that.

"On June 21, Cheryll Lee received a foreboding call from a Jackson aide. Lee said Jackson's aide told her the singer needed to see her right away.

"I could hear Michael in the background: 'Tell her. Tell her that one side of my body is hot, is hot, and one side of my body is cold, it's very cold,'" Lee said. "And I said, 'tell him he needs to go to the hospital.'

"I knew that somebody had given him something that hit that central nervous system," she said. "He was in trouble."

On Easter 2009, registered nurse Cherilyn Lee said Jackson had called her, frantically begging for propofol, the intravenous anesthetic, saying he needed it to sleep.

"He said, 'Find me an anesthesiologist. I don't care how much money they want,'" Lee recounted. "

Yeah, he said he needed an anaestheseologist. He also told her his doctor (Murray, maybe) told him it was safe with the proper monitoring. Did that happen really? You say it was Michael Jackson's responsibility to take care of himself. Didn't he try to do it>? Didn't he try to find a doctor to monitor him properly? Why didn't nobody cared to Treat his insomnia, if we're to ask desperate people who can't sleep to treat themselves, instead of being helped by the people they hire to care for them precisely because they wanna live somehow, and he had 50 concerts to honor, you still say it was up to him to take care of himself. he did work out, did try to eat and hydrate, but he couldn't sleep, because of insomnia. Is that still not clear? "Hey, you insomniac, if you're tired, go to sleep". "But I want a doctor to help me sleep". Here came Murray. You also said it was AEG's business to take care of him if he was unfit, how did they do that? Is "Do it or die" a lighthearted comment? Or going over to someone's house and tell them to get their butt to the rehearsals, like Philips said he did? Or what was the purpose for Jackson to say 'they' were so mean?... When he wanted... wanted, that's a big word, it was originally 10 shows he agreed to do, then they waxed because of 'demand'. Shoving more and more shows down his throat, when he didn't want to, having to cope with that, some should saying "Oh, but you don't have concrete proof", when there's elements and circumstances all pointing to how stressed he really was. It takes reading and associating too, very much so, that one shouldn't be forced to reiterate themselves all the time.

Being a grown, 50 year old man is not all it takes for a person to be careful not to die, he was as cautious as he could in his 50 years of life, but followed by an ongoing fear of not knowing who to trust and making bad decisions too from the Very fact that most did betray him. Lots of confusion too.

What are some doing here... Murray's defense could say what some here do "Well, MJ was a grown man whould could take care of his damn self"..... "Not my fault he hired me to help him with his insomnia, so I gave him Propofol, when he could treat himself..."....... What? This thread is Not going to turn into a "Michael Jackson did it to himself" one again...not when the trial (?) is around the corner... ?. It's quite clear it's AEG-friendly in places, not Murray, also, please...........

I sure am glad that you wrote this post...:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:..I cannot give you enough rep points!!!!

 

[Alma]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

MJ visited Adams in March 2009 and the meeting was related to propofol, he asked Lee about propofol in April. He used it during the African leg of the History tour. Propofol was not really Murray's idea to begin with. Propofol was MJ's idea. In other words you can't say Murray came and prescribed propofol for insomnia from nowhere. That's a complete lie and I pray the prosecution won't be that stupid to go there and claim propofol was Murray's idea because once they start to LIE , the jurors will lose faith and confidence in everything else they say , the same happened to Sneddon.
Murray is claiming he was fooling "the addict" and not doing what "the addict" was expecting him to do. Murray did not at any point admit to anything that would have incriminated him regarding propofol and the doses daily given. He and his lawyers wrote a script and read it to investigators and in that script MJ was portrayed as someone with psychological dependency on drugs especially propofol and Murray was portrayed as the doctor who tried to treat that psychological dependency by PRETENDING it was being administered when it was not.
What his family has been claiming regarding their so called failed interventions, Katherine telling Oprah she once asked his plastic surgeon to fake operating on him because he was addicted to plastic surgery , his sister telling Oprah he did not listen to them help no one but Murray. It is what Murray's defence really wanted and needed to boost their theory and give credibility to their script.
The defence now as the prosecutor said are operating under the theory that MJ killed himself. Killed himself because he needed the propofol doses Murray was not giving him, he needed to sleep using propofol when Murray's doses were not enough to induce sleep ( 25 or 50 mg). The doctor left the room and MJ found an opportunity to do it himself.
All the defence needs to raise doubt in the jurors minds. He was an addict, graving for propofol, he could not be saved, he would be broke if he did not perform, he was under tremendous pressure and out of desperation he rapidly injected himself and ended his life. I'm sure at LEAST one of the jurors would take that into consideration before deciding whether to vote innocent or guilty.

Good for you for giving ideas to the defense, you do it a lot too. Seems like you love repeating that "MJ killed himself" just to make a point, well, give it up, this ain't a pro-Murray forum; you don't take Murray's side, no, but not MJ's either by this attitude. You're not helping.

Jackon didn't want propofol Without the presence of an anetheseologist before. Propofol wasn't MJ's idea when it first was administered to him during touring. Murray was money-hungry enough to accept being his 'anestheseologist' and heart doctor and everth for the big money he got.

One can't get addicted to Propofol, for the upteenth time, it's been said countless of times before. Psychollogically addicted, really? When you have an insomniac like Jackson with 50 concerts on his back and many other pressures to handle, you get him to the hospital first, to Treat his insomnia, as a doctor you ask AEG to allow him to be hospitalized, When he himself asked for help, when feeling both hot and cold, nobody took him or took care of him... Why insert plastic surgery into this?.... This is about an insomnia man preparing really hard for 50 concerts...... Insomnia is the case in here, not addiction, like someone else said, wondering who else is getting paid...kinda like Murray was... to help the defense with generalities like that?........ Did plastic surgery kill him? .. That can't be really taken into cons, or shouldn;t..

Stop repeating the hypothesis that MJ killed himself in the meantime, not just in this thread, and the world of 'good' it serves.

 

[Alma]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I sure am glad that you wrote this post...:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:..I cannot give you enough rep points!!!!

You're kind...


but too many don't agree with things that it isn't I who's saying, these are facts or important aspects worth considering, all some want is Proof, written proof, written sheets, written don't know what... and some here are going for the Jackson bashing route, or Unconstructive comments that can't possibly help, really, certainly not the prosecution.................

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

You're kind...


but too many don't agree with things that it isn't I who's saying, these are facts or important aspects worth considering, all some want is Proof, written proof, written sheets, written don't know what... and some here are going for the Jackson bashing route, or Unconstructive comments that can't possibly help, really, certainly not the prosecution.................

unforunetly you are correct. For me personally I am not here to bash anyone..I just want those that are responible for Michael's death held accountble. There are some on here who have always taken the side of AEG...and they continue to give the defense a motive....they have from the very beginning...they try to sway public opinion instead of getting to the truth.....that Michael does not need..he needs for the truth to come out. It is so odd how things have been coming out for the past 18 months right of the mouths of Randy, Kenny and others...yet..some still dont believe. Some still hold Michael responsible for his own death. I am not saying that Michael was so sick and feeble that he was not able to take care of himself...but ...as has been posted numerous times here....there are signs to tell that Michael was not well those last couple of weeks...I think some chose to ignore them.

 

[MooringTide]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Dr. Murray is the victim here. However, I shall not conceal too much information at this moment as it could definately jeopardize the truth before the upcoming hearing.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Murray is the victim here. However, I shall not conceal too much information at this moment as it could definately jeopardize the truth before the upcoming hearing.

for the love of god ...if you know something...please say it....you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. If Murray was the victim...I think he would of already made that public...I think he would been loud and clear on that. IMO

 

[kasume]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Murray is the victim here. However, I shall not conceal too much information at this moment as it could definately jeopardize the truth before the upcoming hearing.

lol. This is too funny. This has to be a joke!

Where did you come from all of a sudden with that? You're too funny.

In case you are not aware, murray isn't the one laying in a coffin cause he got injected with a deadly dose of drugs by the hands of another.....and wait, this wasn't even a drug addict!!

This was a healthy man who passed away because his doc gave him enough drugs to take down a full grown elephant. Now you tell me who's the victim here. I would love to hear a response.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

But Soundmind, would you buy that? I would ask why would Murray agree to propofol at all? did he think it was a good idea. Murray told the police that he was not the first doctor to 'introduce' propofol to MJ, and that others doctor did, so Murray kind of admitted that he told MJ it would be ok. I still don't see how Murray is not to blame. How was Murray giving the propofol previously?

No, I would not because I've never ever believed MJ was an addict and in order to buy Murray's story you have to first believe MJ was mentaly and emotionally weak and dependent on drugs to function something his family has never failed to speak about.

Good for you for giving ideas to the defense, you do it a lot too. Seems like you love repeating that "MJ killed himself" just to make a point, well, give it up, this ain't a pro-Murray forum; you don't take Murray's side, no, but not MJ's either by this attitude. You're not helping.

ohh really, you should have told that to Janet, Katherine and Randy , at least my comments won't be used to clear Murray , theirs will for sure.

Jackon didn't want propofol Without the presence of an anetheseologist before. Propofol wasn't MJ's idea when it first was administered to him during touring. Murray was money-hungry enough to accept being his 'anestheseologist' and heart doctor and everth for the big money he got

.
MJ did not want propofol without the presence of an anetheseologist also during the rehearsals for This is it, we brought up that FACT and discussed it many times here. That was not the point I made

One can't get addicted to Propofol, for the upteenth time, it's been said countless of times before. Psychollogically addicted, really? When you have an insomniac like Jackson with 50 concerts on his back and many other pressures to handle, you get him to the hospital first, to Treat his insomnia, as a doctor you ask AEG to allow him to be hospitalized, When he himself asked for help, when feeling both hot and cold, nobody took him or took care of him... Why insert plastic surgery into this?.... This is about an insomnia man preparing really hard for 50 concerts...... Insomnia is the case in here, not addiction, like someone else said, wondering who else is getting paid...kinda like Murray was... to help the defense with generalities like that?........ Did plastic surgery kill him? .. That can't be really taken into cons, or shouldn;t..

One can't get addicted to propofol? you are telling me that? I educated myself really good on propofol and I know one can't get addicted to it and I was one of those members who kept screaming that for months and no one was listening. And I kept saying Murray can't prove MJ was physically addicted to it , he will say he was psychologically dependent on it and the family's intervention stories will help him alot .
Did Janet know that? She told Oprah propofol was a painkiller. Did Katherine know that? Did Randy know that? Did Joe know that? I knew that because I bother to read and search , his family were busy figuring out how to collect money out of this tragedy.

Stop repeating the hypothesis that MJ killed himself in the meantime, not just in this thread, and the world of 'good' it serves.

That was what the defense planned on doing the minute Murray started reading his script to the investigators on 27, June 2009. I did not come up with anything original. I'm discussing the defense strategy. We did that during the trial in 2005. Where were you back then? I used to spend ten hours daily on MJ fan sites discussing the prosecution's case and how the defense would destroy it.

The weakest thing in the prosecution case was Janet Arvizos along with the rest of her family. No one in that jury regardless of how much some of them tried could relate to her or feel their so-called pain. Mez was smart enough to put her on the stand and destroy whatever left of the prosecution case.
In this case, the weakest thing is MJ's family. Katherine taking the stand and repeating what she told Oprah will be devastating to the prosecution case whether you like to admit it or not . Janet taking the stand and telling the jurors " he was an addict what could have we done you can't lead a horse to water " will be devastating to the prosecution's case ADMIT IT AND MOVE ON. What damage someone like Janet will do to Murray if she took the stand? What damage someone like Katherine will do to Murray if she took the stand? God , what mother in this whole world will LAUGH about her son's look on national tv with someone like Oprah? Were you surprised by Oprah's COLD reaction to Katherine words? Wait till you hear the jury's reaction , you will be devastated. Paris humanized Mike 1000000 times Katherine words could ever do.

Don't lecture me on how my posts help the defense. Using common sense back then during the trial the fans were confident no way 12 people would believe the prosecution's story and no way 12 people would agree on convicting MJ. Using common sense now, I'm telling you if anyone of MJ's family took the stand , the prosecution case will be over. Because this time there is at least one juror who will ask himself/herself if his mother saying he was such a junkie why should not I believe he could have done it himself ? Don't even answer.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

could we please turn this thread back to the discussion about KJ-AEG case and the claims made by both sides

Michael's weight ?

-if my memory isn't failing me it's not mentioned in KJ's lawsuit. Coroner classifies it as "normal". and unless you can show a relation between his weight and death (example: argue that he wouldn't have died if he was 10 pounds heavier) , it really wouldn't be relevant as far as this case goes.

physically demanding concerts / rehearsals ?

- Almost every job on earth is going to demand some level of physical activity. Michael most probably knew the demands of a concert. we have several aged 50+ artists continue to tour. so the argument shouldn't be that "giving concerts is a physically demanding thing" , it should focus more on was it normal or not, was it forced or not? Was the rehearsal numbers/ length normal or was it extreme? If Michael said "I want to take a break for 10 minutes", did they say "okay" or "no you can't take a break you'll continue for the next hour?".

AEG chose Murray?

-I'll be honest and say this is probably the weakest point in KJ's lawsuit and you don't need to look further than Joe's lawsuit and the autopsy report that shows a prescription from Murray dated back to Dec 08.

AEG hired Murray?

-In my opinion this will be the make or break point for this case. AEG will argue that the contract wasn't signed and KJ's side will make an argument for an oral contract.

What did AEG knew or should reasonably knew?

-If KJ's lawsuit can survive the above point (if the judge thinks ongoing job negotiations between AEG and Murray is enough) then this will become the second most important point.

-did they know that Murray was giving Michael anesthesia? Now one can successfully argue that Michael's sleep problems were well known and Murray was possibly hired to resolve this issues. However like AEG says in their response "sleep problems" and "sleep remedies" equal to anesthesia and knowing that it was being used?

-I'll add this: several members of Jackson family has talked about drug issues, interventions, some staff members (such as Karen Faye) and follower fans has mentioned weight loss, stress, unhappiness etc but apparently none of those people and family members were aware of propofol. so how about AEG?

- edited to add: I saw people saying "wearing multiple layers" should raise red flags. okay but what do you think if we see someone wearing multiple layers on a hot day, does it automatically scream "propofol" or could it be anemia, iron deficiency, thyroid conditions?

what are the limits of liability and duty?

-this will be the last point. even though they hired Murray, even though they might have known or suspected something, where does their liability and duties end?

Both sides have interesting claims, we'll see how this one pans out.