Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date April 2, 2013

[xthunderx2]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

No, I would not because I've never ever believed MJ was an addict and in order to buy Murray's story you have to first believe MJ was mentaly and emotionally weak and dependent on drugs to function something his family has never failed to speak about.


ohh really, you should have told that to Janet, Katherine and Randy , at least my comments won't be used to clear Murray , theirs will for sure.

.
MJ did not want propofol without the presence of an anetheseologist also during the rehearsals for This is it, we brought up that FACT and discussed it many times here. That was not the point I made


One can't get addicted to propofol? you are telling me that? I educated myself really good on propofol and I know one can't get addicted to it and I was one of those members who kept screaming that for months and no one was listening. And I kept saying Murray can't prove MJ was physically addicted to it , he will say he was psychologically dependent on it and the family's intervention stories will help him alot .
Did Janet know that? She told Oprah propofol was a painkiller. Did Katherine know that? Did Randy know that? Did Joe know that? I knew that because I bother to read and search , his family were busy figuring out how to collect money out of this tragedy.



That was what the defense planned on doing the minute Murray started reading his script to the investigators on 27, June 2009. I did not come up with anything original. I'm discussing the defense strategy. We did that during the trial in 2005. Where were you back then? I used to spend ten hours daily on MJ fan sites discussing the prosecution's case and how the defense would destroy it.

The weakest thing in the prosecution case was Janet Arvizos along with the rest of her family. No one in that jury regardless of how much some of them tried could relate to her or feel their so-called pain. Mez was smart enough to put her on the stand and destroy whatever left of the prosecution case.
In this case, the weakest thing is MJ's family. Katherine taking the stand and repeating what she told Oprah will be devastating to the prosecution case whether you like to admit it or not . Janet taking the stand and telling the jurors " he was an addict what could have we done you can't lead a horse to water " will be devastating to the prosecution's case ADMIT IT AND MOVE ON. What damage someone like Janet will do to Murray if she took the stand? What damage someone like Katherine will do to Murray if she took the stand? God , what mother in this whole world will LAUGH about her son's look on national tv with someone like Oprah? Were you surprised by Oprah's COLD reaction to Katherine words? Wait till you hear the jury's reaction , you will be devastated. Paris humanized Mike 1000000 times Katherine words could ever do.

Don't lecture me on how my posts help the defense. Using common sense back then during the trial the fans were confident no way 12 people would believe the prosecution's story and no way 12 people would agree on convicting MJ. Using common sense now, I'm telling you if anyone of MJ's family took the stand , the prosecution case will be over. Because this time there is at least one juror who will ask himself/herself if his mother saying he was such a junkie why should not I believe he could have done it himself ? Don't even answer.

all I can say to your whole long post.....Lets just pray that Katherine doesn't get up there and say that.....you are correct in stating that will be the end of the prosecutions case. Like I said before I am not here to bash anyone..I just want the truth...and there is noway the truth is that Michael was a junkie.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Who has verified that Michael had too much pressure put on him? That can only come from Michael himself.

Remember all the projects that have surfaced that Michael was working on simultaenously with the concert preparations; were those putting pressure on him also?

And if the concert preparations were the reason that he could not sleep, then other bouts in the past with insomnia was a result of what?

At this point, people are going to have to get way more info before pointing fingers here and there.

I still have questions about the state that this lawsuit claims Michael was in; it doesn't jive with anything others who were around him day to day says for months. I'd have to see more evidence that he was so out of it because it doesn't jive with him being able to take proper care of his children at this time if all this is true; yet, no one has questioned his fathering abilities.

Thanks for the summary, Ivy.

I agree with your points here.

 

[Asedora]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Regarding the family being just as guilty as AEG with pressuring, that is extreme. Michael did expressed in a press release how he doesn't want to be joining the Jacksons on tour, and that he accepted the AEG's deal. He wasn't going to tour with the Jacksons, he was really firm about that. He did say 'yes' to a paparazzo that asked him about sth, a concert, or I don't know what, with the Jacksons, and he was annoyed when replying, also a sign that he just wanted to shut him up. His mind was made up, by the looks of it, AEG were too much on his back with serious threats. Talking danger.[/b] A whole company on your back threatening with a lawsuit in case you're not honoring the 50 concerts, God knows what else they threatened him with.[/b] To say he was to postpone more shows is pretty much an understatement, again, given his severe insomnia, he was gonna cancel shows, and he lived in fear because of that, of what AEG would resort to.

Murray serves AEG, in my humble opinion... He didn't mention them at all to save his skin, he could say, "Well, I was pressured by AEG a lot" or anyone for that matter, etc, not saying he won't try anything to save it, but he looks too much like a worshiping fellow, not just based on his underground 'job', where he's a 'doctor' there too. If he's found guilty, he may be ready to do just that, everything for his masters, that's how CIA zombies do for instance. I know it's a lot of speculation on my part regarding this Murray thing, and ppl are gonna need realest proofs to win a case, but not far-fetched at all, and the freemasonery thing is as real as it can be, that's not madness at all, that's what these people do. Not the thread for it, but often, you can't go without mentioning, say... the unseen work.

So, in an ideal world, both Murray and AEG should take the blame, ultimately, Murray administered what he did to an insomniac, an anesthetic that's Not for sleep in the first place, certainly Not for treating insomnia, and asked a whole lot of money for this 'task'. And AEG is just like the invisible, faceless government, the killers "in somebody's mind"... Such mafia dens hire faithful money-hungry nobodies, so their hands remain blood-free, that's very real.[/b] Murray signing the contract as MJ's doctor.... of course corporations are gonna appear traceless and never leave tangible marks, that's for the dummies to do that, who very much can be likened, although radically, to suicide bombers, who do it for their god. Never underestimate them..[/b]

Good points. Folks want to see everything simple because to think outside the box hurts the brain. As more simple as better. You made good points and this is pretty much how the reality looks like imo.
Actually I did not know about this MJ press release and how much he did not want to join J5. Thanks for letting me know. I was talkin only about what I was feeling how Mj would make his mind about his future. For me it was pretty obvious that he would not go back to J5 after being a Super Mega Star.
To deal with corporations like AEG was dangerous and he knew that too but he hoped that he will make it. This is how I see. Everybody wants to make Jacksons look like monsters, but real monsters are not the family.

 

[8701girl]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Good for you for giving ideas to the defense, you do it a lot too. Seems like you love repeating that "MJ killed himself" just to make a point, well, give it up, this ain't a pro-Murray forum; you don't take Murray's side, no, but not MJ's either by this attitude. You're not helping.

Jackon didn't want propofol Without the presence of an anetheseologist before. Propofol wasn't MJ's idea when it first was administered to him during touring. Murray was money-hungry enough to accept being his 'anestheseologist' and heart doctor and everth for the big money he got.

One can't get addicted to Propofol, for the upteenth time, it's been said countless of times before. Psychollogically addicted, really? When you have an insomniac like Jackson with 50 concerts on his back and many other pressures to handle, you get him to the hospital first, to Treat his insomnia, as a doctor you ask AEG to allow him to be hospitalized, When he himself asked for help, when feeling both hot and cold, nobody took him or took care of him... Why insert plastic surgery into this?.... This is about an insomnia man preparing really hard for 50 concerts...... Insomnia is the case in here, not addiction, like someone else said, wondering who else is getting paid...kinda like Murray was... to help the defense with generalities like that?........ Did plastic surgery kill him? .. That can't be really taken into cons, or shouldn;t..

Stop repeating the hypothesis that MJ killed himself in the meantime, not just in this thread, and the world of 'good' it serves.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

If some didn't bother to embellish or even put words into someone's mouth, debates would be healthy, with such attitudes, they're bound to fail.

He wouldn't know how he was, surely, for real, would he have hired someone like Murray to ultimately kill him? Is also blaming the dead one a good thing? If this turns in this direction, who needs prosecution, really? Murray himself could say how Jackson was a grown man who hired 'an incompetent' like me.... That would the conclusion be, when a doctor gives or agrees to give Propofol to an insomniac without proper equipment. Have some heard of being confused and not knowing who or what to believe? Why do some rule out that Murray wasn't hired by AEG also? Because they need proof, right... Well, there many times when proofs never come or are counterfeited, if all we want is proof and only proof. That's not a way to blame AEG, but circumstances and some of their Own words are enough in the minds of some. Again, don't blame a dead man who was being pressured from all sides and wanting to sleep, And, this thread is not about Propofol.

Then please don't put words in my mouth. I no more blame Michael for what happened to him and Murray's bungling than I would any patient who suffers at the hand of a physician.
We all believe in and rely on the doctors we enlist. MJ entrusted his children to Murray. He believed in his competence for him as well. But Murray failed him, like many others have. My question is, why is it seemingly ignored that Michael had the established relationship with Murray and if he was hired by AEG, it was most likely at MJ's request. All proof indicates that circumstance. AEG is a world wide concert promoter. Out of literally hundreds of thousands of doctors in this world, Conrad Murray being on their radar is highly questionable unless MJ brought him to their attention.

Which brings me back to the point of my post. Some comments and Katherine's suit to an extent gives the impression that Michael had no decision making abilities or control, and further needed to be looked after like he was a child instead of an adult. The size and grandeur of the concerts were a result of MJ's visions and input. I don't believe someone who was making this extravaganza did not have the presence of mind to do so. The pressure was definitely getting to him, and affecting him physically, but MJ had come through far worse than a series of concerts.

P.S. I never mentioned propofol anywhere in my post.

 

[Asedora]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Well the autopsy also indicates he was healthy. Also I don't know why people are hailing this Patrick Traecy if he is saying he also gave MJ propofol while he was in Ireland. That does not help MJs case and only assisted in giving him a false sense of security regarding the danger of propofo. It should never have been used for sleep period.

Mj died from OVERDOSE not from "organic" illness. Autopsy will not show a damn if a person died from insomnia "treatment'. Medications were injected into his body by doctor Murray because MJ was UNDER stress and could not sleep. He could not sleep and could not eat and asked for medications because he was under AEG pressure; And it was like "do or die" choice. Are you guys able to flollow the line you are juts obsessed with Dr. Murray and nothing else bothers you?
AEG was responsible for Michael's well being but they did not give a damn but they were videotaping him for a reason. Then they made TII movie and that was it. When money keep coming it is laways good, no mattar what is behind it.
I am pretty much sure that Murray was in constant contact with AEG and they knew wnat was going on. It was just a matter of time.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Medications were injected into his body by doctor Murray because MJ was UNDER stress and could not sleep. He could not sleep and could not eat and asked for medications because he was under AEG pressure.

hmm. to make that argument I think you'll need to show insomnia (and eating issues) only after the AEG deal / rehearsals started.

however as far as we can tell his sleep issues were always present for a long time (and he seems to be a picky eater). So I can't see how it can be argued that his inability to sleep was because of stress/pressure when it was an already existing condition.

 

[kasume]

AEG chose Murray?

-I'll be honest and say this is probably the weakest point in KJ's lawsuit and you don't need to look further than Joe's lawsuit and the autopsy report that shows a prescription from Murray dated back to Dec 08.

According to Frank DiLeo, Michael asked, "Have you found a doctor yet?" Which means it was up to aeg to find a doctor.

AEG hired Murray?

-In my opinion this will be the make or break point for this case. AEG will argue that the contract wasn't signed and KJ's side will make an argument for an oral contract.

I think you got that mixed up there. Anyways, Michael had six weeks to sign that contract. And IF there was an oral contract, what was Murray doing with a paper contract that had a space for both him and Michael to sign?

What did AEG knew or should reasonably knew?

-If KJ's lawsuit can survive the above point (if the judge thinks ongoing job negotiations between AEG and Murray is enough) then this will become the second most important point.

muzikfactory made a GREAT point in her video that cant be ignored. WHY did murray go after aeg for his money, and NOT Michael's estate? why did murray call after aeg, and NOT michael's state?

-did they know that Murray was giving Michael anesthesia? Now one can successfully argue that Michael's sleep problems were well known and Murray was possibly hired to resolve this issues. However like AEG says in their response "sleep problems" and "sleep remedies" equal to anesthesia and knowing that it was being used?

This all goes back to your previous question as well. they might not have known michael was "getting anesthesia", but they SHOULD have figured something may have been wrong and ask the doc to help Michael.

Here's what a medical professional has stated.

"Michael Jackson could not have recieved such huge amount of Propofol during course of 6 weeks without showing some side effects during his waking hours; he simply would not be able to do any sort of physical activity yet alone go through rigorous rehearsals and deliver. Medically speaking that is just not possible! - Tima

She said he would not be able to do any sort of physical activity, and yet TII dancers are saying Michael was on fire, and one saying the TII movie not showing his best moves.

So you probably have a point there. AEG could not have noticed Michael using propofol because he WASN'T using propofol. Murray is lying when you look at it medically.

-I'll add this: several members of Jackson family has talked about drug issues, interventions, some staff members (such as Karen Faye) and follower fans has mentioned weight loss, stress, unhappiness etc but apparently none of those people and family members were aware of propofol. so how about AEG?

Again, look at my previous answer. I also don't believe the drug issues, interventions, unhappiness, stress, as well. And one is bound to lose weight with physical activity. that Thriller was naturally thin.

-this will be the last point. even though they hired Murray, even though they might have known or suspected something, where does their liability and duties end?

If the knew something, who could have told them??? What kinds of things was murray communicating with them? If they suspected something, I doubt they did. Michael was singing and dancing better than what we saw in TII. (which means he wasnt taking propofol for six weeks)

BUT,

According to Katherine, Dr. Conrad Murray was "selected by, hired by, and controlled by AEG.

According to dileo aeg may have been selected murray, phillips has admitted to hiring murray, but then there’s the controlling aspect…..

On June 18, a week before the 25th, Why did randy phillips have to bring murray along with them to Michael’s house when he threatened Michael by “pulling the plug”? (Frank DiLeo, Kenny Ortega, Paul Gongaware showed up as well) The meeting was about “missed rehearsals” which is why Michael was threatened. NOTHING that has to do with murray. Still confuses me how aeg successfully brought that doctor with them to discuss Michael missing rehearsals……

Randy demanded that Michael stop seeing Dr. Kleine and ONLY take drugs given my Murray.

Now, either that is controlling, or that is controlling. Seems like this meeting was more than just about missed rehearsals. As only Michael’s concert promoter, phillips had NO RIGHT to demand Michael what doctor to see. And the wierdiest thing is, why the heck would Murray not object to something like that???? Someone can’t have more than one doctor? What’s the deal?

Phillips and Murray were in on something.

 

[Asedora]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

hmm. to make that argument I think you'll need to show insomnia (and eating issues) only after the AEG deal / rehearsals started.

however as far as we can tell his sleep issues were always present for a long time (and he seems to be a picky eater). So I can't see how it can be argued that his inability to sleep was because of stress/pressure when it was an already existing condition.

I had very bad insomnia and depression for a long time, for a few years. It is horrible and physically it kills you. Really it is on and off. A little stress and it has to be treated immediately because it gets worse. As more stress you get as worse you feel. But the best treatment is to cut off a patient from all negative emotions, COMPLITELLY. Then you can get a balance. To get a better result, you have to keep this balance to make things more stable. It takes months and even years.
I can speak from my own experience because I know how does it feel. It really never goes away. It is always there and to control it you have to get a lot of relaxing and very positive emotions. Michael did not have that choice. Things can get out of control if you are under stress. Then the pills are the only a choice to make a person functional. MJ needed immediate rehab treatment to normalize NATURAL sleeping abilities, not rehearsals till 12 am in the morning. AEG should know that and Murray should know that too. They play fool like they did not see what was going on. Nonsense.

PS. I really wish, Michael would drop this contract, sell his catalouge to Sony or whatever they wanted from him, get some cash and buy a house whatever he would be able to afford for his kids but be alive , not on FL. But I know deep inside that he would never do it. He was a King of Pop and this is it.

 

[gerryevans]

Randy demanded that Michael stop seeing Dr. Kleine and ONLY take drugs given my Murray.

Now, either that is controlling, or that is controlling. Seems like this meeting was more than just about missed rehearsals. As only Michael’s concert promoter, phillips had NO RIGHT to demand Michael what doctor to see. And the wierdiest thing is, why the heck would Murray not object to something like that???? Someone can’t have more than one doctor? What’s the deal?

Phillips and Murray were in on something.

This could go back to what one of the dancer's said, which was that they could always tell when MJ had been to see Klein. That could mean whatever Klien was giving him was visibly affecting him. That doesn't mean Klien was giving him something potentially dangerous, but whatever the medication was, MJ might have needed to lay low for a couple of hours before going directly to rehearsals, but couldn't, and everyone saw the affects of the treatments and it was alarming, especially if they didn't know specifically what the treatments were.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Michael did not have that choice. Things can get out of control if you under stress. Then the pills are the only a choice to make a person functional. MJ needed immediate rehab treatment to normalize sleeping abilities, not rehearsals till 12 am in the morning. AEG should know that and Murray should know that too. They play fool like they did not see what was going on. Nonsense.

Unfortunately, I think the only way MJ wouldn't have had that kind of stress is if he NEVER performed on stage again. If he just made records, I think he would have been fine. But for him to ever make a so called "comeback" on a stage, I think he would have wanted it to be BIG, STUPENDOUS...."something like they've never seen before." And with that kind of BIG, you always get BIG pressure. I don't think he'd ever be normalized to the point that he could do a concert series and his chronic condition NOT be triggered.

 

[kasume]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

This could go back to what one of the dancer's said, which was that they could always tell when MJ had been to see Klein. That could mean whatever Klien was giving him was visibly affecting him. That doesn't mean Klien was giving him something potentially dangerous, but whatever the medication was, MJ might have needed to lay low for a couple of hours before going directly to rehearsals, but couldn't, and everyone saw the affects of the treatments and it was alarming, especially if they didn't know specifically what the treatments were.

IF you are right, thing is, why was it randy phillips? Why wasn't it murray demanding Michael all that. HE's the doctor!!!

and I WILL NOT forget that it was murray bringing Michael's food up to him......where he could so easily slip something into Michael's food....

Kleine seems so easy to mess over.....

 

[ivy]

According to Frank DiLeo, Michael asked, "Have you found a doctor yet?" Which means it was up to aeg to find a doctor.

could be. what I'm saying an argument that Murray was a random doctor is weak. It's obvious that Michael knew him before. Now AEG could have picked a doctor from the doctors Michael knew - that's a possibility.

I think you got that mixed up there. Anyways, Michael had six weeks to sign that contract. And IF there was an oral contract, what was Murray doing with a paper contract that had a space for both him and Michael to sign.

what makes you say he had six weeks to sign it? Sure Murray was working for 6 weeks, but negotiations were ongoing (emails show this) and Murray only signed it on June 24. It doesn't seem like final contract was lying around for the 6 weeks.

Oral agreement and paper contract are two different things and a paper contract is preferred as it's relatively harder to prove an oral contract legally. Let me give an example : let's say that you applied for a job interview etc. The company calls you and say "kasume we want to offer you the job and give you $50,000 do you accept?" you say "yes" - this is an oral agreement/ contract. The company says "okay come next monday and we'll do the paperwork". You go next monday and sign the paper and then you officially become an employee, and your employment, salary etc gets verified. both sides (employee and employer) would prefer a written document especially it's for a long term and detailed job with detailed duties and benefits.

oral contract argument is done by Katherine in her lawsuit and I think it's a possibility that the judge can see it as enough evidence for a relationship between AEG and Murray.

edited to add: AEG could have done the contracts and payroll but did they hire whomever they want or whomever Michael wanted? for example let's think about dancers who had 2 year contracts with AEG right? so would you say they were "selected and hired by AEG" or that Michael selected them and AEG hired them on his behalf?

WHY did murray go after aeg for his money, and NOT Michael's estate? why did murray call after aeg, and NOT michael's state?

This is easy, everyone was being paid by AEG. We have Karen Faye for example who says Michael called her and asked her to comeback and she was getting paid by AEG. No one except Kai Chase filed a creditor's claim.

This all goes back to your previous question as well. they not have known michael was "getting anesthesia", but they SHOULD have figured something may have been wrong and ask the doc to help Michael.

perhaps they did and perhaps they heard "he's fine". now I'm talking from the legal perspective as far as this case goes the argument is "they knew Michael was getting propofol in a dangerous setting, it was their duty to protect him from such dangerous conditions and they did nothing".

so knowing he's getting propofol in a dangerous setting and doing nothing is different than thinking that he has flu and doing nothing.

So I probably have a point there. AEG could not have noticed Michael using propofol because he WASN'T using propofol. Murray is lying when you look at it medically.

himm if this is your argument you do realize that this takes the blame from AEG (shots down Katherine's lawsuit) and puts it solely on Murray right?

According to dileo aeg may have been selected murray, phillips has admitted to hiring murray, but then there’s the controlling aspect…..

On June 18, a week before the 25th, Why did randy phillips have to bring murray along with them to Michael’s house when he threatened Michael by “pulling the plug”? (Frank DiLeo, Kenny Ortega, Paul Gongaware showed up as well) The meeting was about “missed rehearsals” which is why Michael was threatened. NOTHING that has to do with murray. Still confuses me how aeg successfully brought that doctor with them to discuss Michael missing rehearsals……

all claims made in KJ's lawsuit. I'm really curious about how / who will back this up. Who is the witness in this? Now don't get me wrong , it might have happened but how will KJ's lawyers will prove this.

Randy demanded that Michael stop seeing Dr. Kleine and ONLY take drugs given my Murray.

we discussed this in the previous thread about Katherine's lawsuit. Michael visited Klein on June 22. 4 days later reportedly he was demanded not to see him. so it's kinda weak argument.

 

[Asedora]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Unfortunately, I think the only way MJ wouldn't have had that kind of stress is if he NEVER performed on stage again. If he just made records, I think he would have been fine. But for him to ever make a so called "comeback" on a stage, I think he would have wanted it to be BIG, STUPENDOUS...."something like they've never seen before." And with that kind of BIG, you always get BIG pressure. I don't think he'd ever be normalized to the point that he could do a concert series and his chronic condition NOT be triggered.

Yes, he would be fine if he never was on stage again. But you have to keep in mind that his financial advisers told him that he was broken. They told him that he has no money and such. He had no choice. Michael was not that aware about his finances. He did not understand too much about banking and accounts. He trusted people who worked for him and God knows what was going on his accounts.
I really wish Michael never would make that choice he made. I wish he would just sell any assets he had, declare a bankruptcy or whatever but be alive, not on FL.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I really wish Michael never would make that choice he made. I wish he would just sell any assets he had, declare a bankruptcy or whatever but be alive, not on FL.

You stated my sentiments exactly! I don't even think he'd have had to declare bankruptcy. If he sold that d@mn catalogue to the highest bidder, I think he could have made a hundred mil for himself after the fact, and still get a few million each year from his other interests.

I would have even been happy if he completely retired, and the only time I heard about him is when he was giving Paris away for her marriage.

 

[kasume]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

what makes you say he had six weeks to sign it? Sure Murray was working for 6 weeks, but negotiations were ongoing (emails show this) and Murray only signed it on June 24. It doesn't seem like final contract was lying around for the 6 weeks.

hmmm....that's interesting. Why would aeg not let Michael see the final contract first before murray? why would they seek out to give murray the contract first?

This is easy, everyone was being paid by AEG. We have Karen Faye for example who says Michael called her and asked her to comeback and she was getting paid by AEG. No one except Kai Chase filed a creditor's claim.

Which gives aeg the dominant power on WHO to bring in.

So I probably have a point there. AEG could not have noticed Michael using propofol because he WASN'T using propofol. Murray is lying when you look at it medically.

himm if this is your argument you do realize that this takes the blame from AEG and puts it solely on Murray right?

i noticed that. but its not like aeg is going to say Michael WASN'T using propofol, that hurts murray's defense. And then they will have to prove that too! whether aeg is willing to hurt murray's defense. idk. i just know that they havent so far.

(but I also added BUT... at the end, they COULD have known something)

all claims made in KJ's lawsuit. I'm really curious about how / who will back this up. Who is the witness in this? Now don't get me wrong , it might have happened but how will KJ's lawyers will prove this.

there are the emails, which we probably have not seen all of them. also, its the children's lawsuit too. people keep forgetting that. i wonder what the children heard when randyphillips, frank dileo, murray, paul gongaware and kennyortega all went to his house. its hard to lie about a meeting like that.

we discussed this in the previous thread about Katherine's lawsuit. Michael visited Klein on June 22. 4 days later reportedly he was demanded not to see him. so it's kinda weak argument.

you mean four days earlier.....and it's not a weak argument. it just means Michael was probably not listening to phillips

 

[Asedora]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I would have even been happy if he completely retired, and the only time I heard about him is when he was giving Paris away for her marriage.

Yeah.... Michael was a warier in his heart and the King of Pop. He would never sell this damn catalogue to Sony because he never would do what somebody wanted him to do. He would never let them to put him down. It would not be Michael Jackson. He said he was unbreakable and that describes pretty well what kind of person he was imo.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

hmmm....that's interesting. Why would aeg not let Michael see the final contract first before murray? why would they seek out to give murray the contract first?

perhaps he did see it before or knew about the negotiations. Top people are generally the last persons to sign a contract.

Which gives aeg the dominant power on WHO to bring in.

see my example/question about the dancers. would you say they were "selected and hired by AEG" or that Michael selected them and AEG hired them on his behalf?

its the children's lawsuit too. people keep forgetting that. i wonder what the children heard when randyphillips, frank dileo, murray, paul gongaware and kennyortega all went to his house. its hard to lie about a meeting like that.

I don't know what you mean by "children's lawsuit" as I do not think it was their idea to file a lawsuit. they could be very well added to increase the damages it could be gotten if they won the case. Prince had to be added for the emotional distress claim. Plus what they say could be hearsay unless they were first handedly experienced some events.

you mean four days earlier.....

I meant 4 days later. reportedly on June 18the they told Michael not to see Klein but 4 days later (June 22) he was seeing Klein.

and it's not a weak argument. it just means Michael was probably not listening to phillips

which means Micheal wasn't really under their control, pressure or "orders" as it was claimed.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

IF you are right, thing is, why was it randy phillips? Why wasn't it murray demanding Michael all that. HE's the doctor!!!

and I WILL NOT forget that it was murray bringing Michael's food up to him......where he could so easily slip something into Michael's food....

Kleine seems so easy to mess over.....

Murray didn't have that kind of position with MJ where he could tell him what to do or who to see. The concert was an MJ/AEG collaboration. AEG had already invested millions in the production. Phillips had pull with MJ. Murray had little to none. Plus, Murray just didn't care that much. He was mainly interested in how much money he could finagle for himself. That nurse was more concerned about MJ's welfare than Murray. With or without the proper equipment, Murray NEVER would have left MJ in that room unattended if he genuinely gave a hoot.

 

[kasume]

Murray didn't have that kind of position with MJ where he could tell him what to do or who to see. The concert was an MJ/AEG collaboration. AEG had already invested millions in the production. Phillips had pull with MJ. Murray had little to none. Plus, Murray just didn't care that much. He was mainly interested in how much money he could finagle for himself. That nurse was more concerned about MJ's welfare than Murray. With or without the proper equipment, Murray NEVER would have left MJ in that room unattended if he genuinely gave a hoot.

Still, this is about the medical side of things. Any doctor should have more power over that than a concert promoter. It's strange how phillips was giving the medical demands and not murray/ or it's strange that murray would have phillips speak for him about something like that. If there REALLY was a problem, you bet any doctor would have spoken up and warned Michael themselves!!! and you're right, even IF something was wrong, murray didn't care. he shot a non drug addict up with loads of drugs that killed him.

perhaps he did. Top people are generally the last persons to sign a contract.

i never heard of that.

If Michael signed anything first it would more likely be a gag contract between him and the Con......

see my example/question about the dancers. would you say they were "selected and hired by AEG" or that Michael selected them and AEG hired them on his behalf?

Who else could have selected them BUT Michael??? that is the creative process. it was "Michael Jackson's This Is It". And Michael was the creative genius behind all of it. I really doubt aeg could point out the flaws/perfection dancers would have in Michael's moves, unless they know every move themselves......

I don't know what you mean by "children's lawsuit" as I do not think it was their idea to file a lawsuit. they could be very well added to increase the damages it could be gotten if they won the case. Prince had to be added for the emotional distress claim. Plus what they say could be hearsay unless they were first handedly experienced some events.

I personally believe they either heard something or was told something by their father. They could have heard something from that meeting. It does not mention ONLY Prince, it says "kids", which means they all may have something to bring up (maybe not blanket).

reportedly on June 18the they told Michael not to see Klein but 4 days later (June 22) he was seeing Klein.

which means Micheal wasn't really under their control or "orders" as it was claimed.

Or it could mean Michael was being RESITANT the last couple of days!!

Notice what he says about the LAST rehearsal.. he says MJ took over and started speaking up for himself. Hint of a power struggle? MJ starts to get confident and the next day he is gone?

The last rehearsal:

“He was his old self. He was interacting with us, giving us suggestions, making changes. In the beginning, he let everyone else run things. Then, he was like, ‘This is my show. We’re going to do it how I want to do it.’ I loved it. That’s something I always wanted to see. I thought he was being taken advantage of in the beginning because he was older. ... And you could tell he had something to say, but he wouldn’t say it. But that last day, he took over.
“He knew what he wanted. The dancers were like, ‘Good, he’s speaking up.’ The dancers had Michael’s back.” - CG

 

[classic]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

. . . For a serious performer, for Any performer whatsoever, to only have 1 month and a half for rehearsing, with the set not finished, some songs and choreography not done. With ppl like Randy Philips himself, the AEG head chief, going to his home and Force him to go to the rehearsals, although he had so many other things to do, and most likely, wasn't feeling well... Like it's been said, for a man to complain of being cold at the rehearsals.......... This is too mindblowing, AEG Obviously knew he Wasn't fit to perform, Ortega too said Michael couldn't sleep, that he was nervous for him, they didn't try to stop this, they went ahead as planned, although the preparation time was limited, only 2 weeks to go... for the first concert in 12 years by a perfectionist, hard-working artist. Didn't Philips say that they tried to convince him for 2 years to perform, and that the response was always the same, that he wasn't prepared mentally and physically.

......... That's what I mean by being Just as guilty, in a way, as Murray. AEG could stop it, they saw Michael as a liability for them, and they didn't care how overworked and sleepless he was, just 'do it or die', there's no other way out, you gotta provide money to us. They tried to tell him often that he needed the money..... , review old articles of both Philips and Thome Thome saying how Michael was really short of money and he Needed to do the shows. But No one was more desperate than generating profits and making hard cash more than AEG and Murray, 'the money or your life' very much fits them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see just how at fault these AEG folks really were. Also, again, where is the written proof that Jackson's health was as great as they said it was, as Philips himself said it was, that he passed them with flying colors? ........ Was he really that healthy, that fit, that strong to do it, although increasingly getting thinner. Just by viewing some This Is It scenes, when he does the spin at the end of "Black And White", he looked a bit uncoordinated, that's what happens when one hasn't gotten any sleep. ........ He was getting sickly thin, with 3 or 4 shirts on him and a jacket, and that didn't raise any flags either??..........

I've been in places in the summer with sweaters or jackets because I got colder than others; chances are because they dancers were working so hard, the place was kept cool.

Also, some of this is hearsay not facts, which is what we should be discussing. By the way, again, AEG admits that they weren't there to be Michael's caretaker, so projects outside of theirs that Michael was working on would not have been a concern of theirs. That would have been up to Michael to prioritize. Let's be a little realistic here because I'm sure that Michael understood when he signed contracts what his responsibilities were.

 

[kasume]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Let's be a little realistic here because I'm sure that Michael understood when he signed contracts what his responsibilities were.

Let's be more realistic than that. Documents can be changed, switched, edited, faked.

Just like that ridiculous, bizarre, thing of an autopsy report!

 

[classic]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I disagree. What motive does Murray have for murder? NONE. On the otherhand, AEG, among others, do have motive for murder. So, if you really feel that MJ was murdered (which I think is a strong possibility), than Murray wasn't the ringleader. Manslaughter, yeah, then you could argue it was Murray and no one else. But if you are going to use the term Murder, then there is no way Murray acted alone. The first thing in a murder case is motive, and Murray has no motive if he's acting alone. His only motive would be money, which means someone would've had to pay him. I do believe I've read that his fininancial situation has improved and that his debts have been paid off. But, I don't remember where I read that, so I don't want to say for sure that that is the case.

What has AEG gotten from Michael's death that they would not have gotten from his performing? Or if he didn't perform, there wouldn't have been losses to them because I'm sure they protected themselves financially just as Michael did if AEG didn't fulfill their end of the contract.

 

[rainny]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

I meant 4 days later. reportedly on June 18the they told Michael not to see Klein but 4 days later (June 22) he was seeing Klein.

June 18th was a Thursday. Then, it was the weekend when MJ called

Cherilyn in Florida on the 21st, and on the 22nd, He did go to Klein's, but Klein said

on TV that MJ said _goodbye_ to everybody in his offices that day, and

that he found it strange.

 

[kasume]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

June 18th was a Thursday. Then, it was the weekend when MJ called

Cherilyn in Florida on the 21st, and on the 22nd, He did go to Klein's, but Klein said

on TV that MJ said _goodbye_ to everybody in his offices that day, and

that he found it strange.

Michael was leaving for London in about a week. Unless, Michael had another appointment with Kleine before he left......I still don't see what that point has to do with anything....just saying, not trying to be rude....

It's so hard to believe people like kleine and cherilyn lee in the first place.

 

[mijaons]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

AEG, like most corporations, is a money-making machine, too morally responsible for Jackson's death that it's clear. For a serious performer, for Any performer whatsoever, to only have 1 month and a half for rehearsing, with the set not finished, some songs and choreography not done. With ppl like Randy Philips himself, the AEG head chief, going to his home and Force him to go to the rehearsals, although he had so many other things to do, and most likely, wasn't feeling well... Like it's been said, for a man to complain of being cold at the rehearsals.......... This is too mindblowing, AEG Obviously knew he Wasn't fit to perform, Ortega too said Michael couldn't sleep, that he was nervous for him, they didn't try to stop this, they went ahead as planned, although the preparation time was limited, only 2 weeks to go... for the first concert in 12 years by a perfectionist, hard-working artist. Didn't Philips say that they tried to convince him for 2 years to perform, and that the response was always the same, that he wasn't prepared mentally and physically.

......... That's what I mean by being Just as guilty, in a way, as Murray. AEG could stop it, they saw Michael as a liability for them, and they didn't care how overworked and sleepless he was, just 'do it or die', there's no other way out, you gotta provide money to us. They tried to tell him often that he needed the money..... , review old articles of both Philips and Thome Thome saying how Michael was really short of money and he Needed to do the shows. But No one was more desperate than generating profits and making hard cash more than AEG and Murray, 'the money or your life' very much fits them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see just how at fault these AEG folks really were. Also, again, where is the written proof that Jackson's health was as great as they said it was, as Philips himself said it was, that he passed them with flying colors? ........ Was he really that healthy, that fit, that strong to do it, although increasingly getting thinner. Just by viewing some This Is It scenes, when he does the spin at the end of "Black And White", he looked a bit uncoordinated, that's what happens when one hasn't gotten any sleep. ........ He was getting sickly thin, with 3 or 4 shirts on him and a jacket, and that didn't raise any flags either??..........

I completely agree with you. Especially in light of how Michael had pledged the catalogues for aloan from AEG. I hate revisitng all this - it brings back to mind how completely unnecessary his death was and how much he was surrounded and hounded by people who wnated to ruin him in his last years. And I squarely place the blame on Bashir and that family that started his whole slide in his last decade. Bastards, all of them. I can't get any sleep if I start thinking about how sinister Michael's last few years have been. He didn't deserve to live that way. Why were people so inhumane to him?

 

[8701girl]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

June 18th was a Thursday. Then, it was the weekend when MJ called

Cherilyn in Florida on the 21st, and on the 22nd, He did go to Klein's, but Klein said

on TV that MJ said _goodbye_ to everybody in his offices that day, and

that he found it strange.

Maybe with everyone telling him not to go to klien anymore, he decided to go one last time on 22nd and thats he was saying bye.....just a thought...

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

i never heard of that.

that's from my personal experience. I worked as an assistant to a music band and saw the contract signing process. generally the artist would tell their staff (lawyers, assistants, managers etc) what they want, these people would negotiate on their behalf, a lot of drafts will come and go with changes, and the artist wouldn't be bothered till the very end.

If Michael signed anything first it would more likely be a gag contract between him and the Con......

if you are talking about a confidentiality agreement that would only be need to signed by Murray and not Michael.

Who else could have selected them BUT Michael??? that is the creative process. it was "Michael Jackson's This Is It". And Michael was the creative genius behind all of it. I really doubt aeg could point out the flaws/perfection dancers would have in Michael's moves, unless they know every move themselves......

the point in that example was to show simply having a contract with AEG and being paid by AEG, doesn't automatically mean that they are selected by AEG. The same could apply to Murray. We don't know.

Or they could very well now what was going on, heard something, saw something. They could have heard something from that meeting. It does not specifically say Prince, it says "kids", which means they may have something to bring up (maybe not blanket).

could be but like I said it could be about damages as well. Damages awarded to 13-12-8 year old kids would be higher than damages awarded to a 80 year old.

Or it could mean Michael was being RESITANT the last couple of days!!

I don't know if you read Katherine's lawsuit and I'm writing anything here based on the arguments made there. the June 18 riot act is portrayed as "you do this and that if not we are going to pull the plug and to cover the costs we'll go after your assets (including sony/atv)". it also argues that because of the financial situation Michael was cornered and controlled.

Now call it what you want "resistant" or "not listening" , from the above perspective it means Michael wasn't threatened,cornered or controlled as he was portrayed.

If you are saying he was killed because he got brave - that's a personal theory that has nothing to with KJ's lawsuit.

June 18th was a Thursday. Then, it was the weekend when MJ called Cherilyn in Florida on the 21st, and on the 22nd, He did go to Klein's, but Klein said on TV that MJ said _goodbye_ to everybody in his offices that day, and that he found it strange.

Maybe with everyone telling him not to go to klien anymore, he decided to go one last time on 22nd and thats he was saying bye.....just a thought...

It wasn't just for goodbyes. Michael did get medical treatment on Klein's office on June 22nd. Klein filed a creditors claim in that he lists on June 22nd " return visit extended, IM injection, fine line needle, restlylane and misc charges". In other words it's for botox.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Welp, looks like Murray's defense team picked up on this. It's being reported that a point of their defense will be that Michael was unfit to perform, and that the rehearsals and all those years of touring took a toll on his body, thus having the desire to be medicated.

well murray had a meeting with phillips and poss ortega at the begining of june where he told them mj was healthy etc.


and regarding the riot act where mjwas told to use murray instead of klien. do pp know how stupid that sounds. klien is a dermotologist. i guess murray is one aswell as everything else and would be giving mj botox etc. they dont even specialise in the same thing. but of course the lawsuit is implying klien was drugging mj up so any doc could do that

and well said soundmind re katherine and the defence case. cause thats the botom line. forget all the negligence that murray pulled with the phonecalls. thats taking aback seat. it maybe things some ppl dont want to hear but if murray walks it will be because of that and nothing else. and when its written out like that heck even id believe it if i were a clueless joe public. cause after all if his family are saying it it must be true. but heck i guess ti wil lget them a few more $ on the interview circuits afterwards

 

[Alma]

Re: AEG Wants Katherine Jackson Lawsuit Dismissed

Dr. Murray is the victim here. However, I shall not conceal too much information at this moment as it could definately jeopardize the truth before the upcoming hearing.

Hey... is this really necessary from you?

You realize that what you are saying is helping Murray's defense? You realize that Michael Jackson died at the hands of Another? That he is the victim here, cause he's dead and gone? Who was there with him in the room? Are you maybe implying that AEG used Murray for this 'job'? Wouldn't that mean both parties are just as guilty?

Don't come on here to hit and run, if you're not willing to support your affirmations. Murray a victim... wow.