Defense Tactics: Look what TMZ is saying..is this going to be the defense in the trial?

[Alma]

I disagree MJ state of Mind and thinking may have been cloudy if he was led by other doctor to believed that using this drug was safe and all he need was someone to watch him,
He went out and get Murray a doctor who agree to do just that,
Murray lie and did not do what MJ was paying him to do, he leave his patient alone after feeding him dangerous drug,
Yes MJ made mistake in his life like we all do but, but murray did not do what he was been paid to do monitor his patient.
I have a problem with people blaming MJ for his own death, if MJ had gone out and got those drug and use them by himself the story would have been different but he try to be safe as his situation allowed him to be,
MJ was in a war with his back agains the wall he did what he believed was right in his thinking hence MURRAY to watch him.
We don't know what it is like to live MJ life, we did not walk a mile in MJ shoe, let he without sin throw the fist stone,
We see the hell he had gone through over the years, what every MJ may have done wrong don't give Murray the right to not do his job and sit his ass down and watch his patient like he agreed to do.
http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/someone-to-monitor-me/

Spot on.... Thank you..

 

[Alma]

Yet another thing that doesn't make sense in all of this. If he wouldn't use propofol without an anesthetist in Ireland then...??
I think Michael was not stupid when it came to propofol. So how he could allow himself to be sedated night after night (if you believe murray) under such potentially lethal circumstances? Did he have such unshakable faith in murray's abilities?

Was he hypnotized by murray? I'm beginning to wonder...Michael, as smart as he was, how could he have been so totally absolutely wrong about this entire setup?

Everything Murray-related simply makes no single sense. ... That June 25 day was too horrible and unnecessary... the way Michael died like a dog... That's not a possible with a real doctor in his presence, no matter how incompetent you are in certain areas. ... Just too strange for words, gives bad vibrations even when typing about this ish. ...

 

[Petrarose]

Dr. Murray's Defense: MJ Was In Failing Health
2/8/2011 12:55 AM PST by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson was in such a weakened state before he died ... it's unfair to blame his death on Propofol ...and we've learned this is precisely what lawyers for Dr. Conrad Murray will argue to a jury.

Sources familiar with the case tell TMZ ... Dr. Murray's team will argue that at the time of his death, Jackson's body was failing him ... partly because he was "driven over the edge" by AEG to rehearse for his upcoming tour.

We're told Murray's lawyers will call witnesses to testify that Jackson was not showing up for rehearsals -- and when he did show, he was exhibiting "clear signs" of failing health.

The upshot of the defense ... even if jurors believe Dr. Murray administered the fatal dose of Propofol, Jackson was already in failing health.

But as TMZ has already reported ... Dr. Murray's lawyers will argue Jackson himself administered the fatal dose of Propofol to himself when Murray was out of the room.

The trial begins in April.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/08/micha...rehearsal-manslaughter-trial/#comments-anchor

Well when the defense claims this failing health hypothesis, the Proc will bring in witnesses showing that it was only after Murray began his treatment that Michael became sick. Plus they will bring in the autopsy report to show his health at time of death. Next, they will ask what methods the DR. used to treat this "failing health" since he was the DR on record. The only think this defense by Murray will do is cast more negative clouds around Michael, unfortunately.

 

[kasume]

Unbelievable.

We're told Murray's lawyers will call witnesses to testify that Jackson was not showing up for rehearsals -- and when he did show, he was exhibiting "clear signs" of failing health.

Oh boy....well, this certainly doesn't add up murray.

edit: I was going to comment about this, but it may give the defense a heads up, so nevermind....

 

[ivy]

Am I the only one who finds their silence about Tohme strange?

no. Tohme definitely need to be looked at.

Heck no..your not the only one....there are MANY people that find it odd that Tohme has not been anywhere around this investigation.....and IMO...he should be at the top of the list....who knows..maybe more will be revealed about him during this trial....but..I am NOT holding my breath.

my question of "on what basis for Tohme" was from legal perspective. As we all know the criminal case places the blame on Murray. The civil case focuses on the idea of people responsible for MJ's health. Tohme wouldn't fit in unless he had a role in bringing in Murray. Plus he was fired at that time. We need to differentiate something here : Tohme , Dileo, Branca etc were working for Michael and were hired / fired by Michael so Michael was the employer. The civil case is based on the idea that with TII contract Michael was working for AEG and as they were the employer and had power on him.

I disagree MJ state of Mind and thinking may have been cloudy if he was led by other doctor to believed that using this drug was safe and all he need was someone to watch him

It's a safe drug if given properly. If we go with tabloid rumors about Neil Ratner and how he traveled with a mini clinic and nurse during the tour, his previous experience might have been "safe".

If nancy grace thinks these charges are insufficient, then we know something is wrong. And I remember her saying the way they laid the charges on murray wasn't even correct.

sorry but no one without knowing the whole evidence are in a position to determine whether the charges are correct or not. Reasonable doubt is all the defense needs. Plus at a recent interview T-MEZ said that the DA argued about the charges for a long time and then decided on IVM. They might have thought "reasonable doubt" could be easily achieved for a murder charge.

What is their story? The go for Michael probably injecting, or drinking, while directing towards a possibility of someone else upstairs with Michael around that time.

As far as we can tell (and add TMZ stories) I think that they'll go with

"Michael was getting ready for TII. It was quite tiring, stressful in other words TII rehearsals were taking their toll on Michael emotionally and physically. He was losing weight, he wasn't sleeping etc. That night he couldn't sleep either. Murray gave him those minimal doses of drugs. Then when Michael finally fall to sleep Dr.Murray left the room to go to the restroom/ take phone calls. When he came back Michael wasn't breathing. So he must have wake up and inject/drink propofol because he was so desperate for sleep for the concerts to go on. and this behavior makes sense because he was addicted/getting addicted/ dependent on propofol".

I'll say this here : when TINI first started I said (even to them) you are introducing reasonable doubt by pointing finger to other parties. Of course it wasn't listened and I got banned from their websites/facebook pages etc. and now you can see that Murray's defense is running with that reasonable doubt that other people had already provided.

 

[Petrarose]

About the drinking of pro issue, in the autopsy report, I think it was suggested that while they were working on the body to revive Michael there were puncturing of the organs, which caused the spilling of the drug into his stomach. I am paraphrasing here.

 

[ivy]

The best strategy for the prosecution will be to debunk drank/injected propofol idea. That would put the blame on solely on Murray.

 

[Moon__Walk]

Not really surprising - from the moment TINI (and Karen Faye) started mentioning Michael's weight, health pointing fingers to AEG and TII concerts, all I can think is "reasonable doubt". (Same goes for the addiction talk).

Some will most probably be happy with this news and say that the truth is coming out and AEG will be kept responsible - but not gonna happen.

Yeah, I dont believe AEG should be held responsible, just Conrad and Michael...

 

[xthunderx2]

Yeah, I dont believe AEG should be held responsible, just Conrad and Michael...

WHY Michael???,,,He didn't kill himself. WHY would you hold someone that was murdered responsible for their own death.?

 

[Moon__Walk]

WHY Michael???,,,He didn't kill himself. WHY would you hold someone that was murdered responsible for their own death.?

No, But the Propofal wasn't forced into his veins. Michael knew of the dangers of an Anesthesia being administered to his body. That's what I mean by Michael in part being responsible.

 

[xthunderx2]

No, But the Propofal wasn't forced into his veins. Michael knew of the dangers of an Anesthesia being administered to his body. That's what I mean by Michael in part being responsible.

do you know this as fact? there is a rule on this forum that we dont post our OPINION as fact.. If you have evidence to back up your claim I will gladly look at it.

 

[Moon__Walk]

do you know this as fact? there is a rule on this forum that we dont post our OPINION as fact.. If you have evidence to back up your claim I will gladly look at it.

Don't worry, Ive been on a Forum before, I know the rules.

In an interview with ABC News, Lee, also a registered nurse, said Jackson was suffering terribly from insomnia and practically begged her for Diprivan, a general anesthetic normally administered in hospitals to knock people out before surgeries and not routinely prescribed to patients with sleeping disorders.

"He said, 'Find me an anesthesiologist—I don't care how much money they want—find me an anesthesiologist to be with me here overnight and give me this IV,' " she recounted.

Lee said the 50-year-old singer complained his body felt cold on one side and hot on the other.

She said she warned him about potentially lethal side effects, including cardiac arrest if combined with other prescription medication.

"I said, 'This is not a safe medicine, please don't take this.'

" 'I look at you, Michael, and I've been around you long enough now, I love you as family. I would not give this to anyone.' "

Read more: http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/b132193_jackson_nurse_michael_this_not_safe.html#ixzz1Du8vOzew

 

[xthunderx2]

Don't worry, Ive been on a Forum before, I know the rules.

In an interview with ABC News, Lee, also a registered nurse, said Jackson was suffering terribly from insomnia and practically begged her for Diprivan, a general anesthetic normally administered in hospitals to knock people out before surgeries and not routinely prescribed to patients with sleeping disorders.

"He said, 'Find me an anesthesiologist—I don't care how much money they want—find me an anesthesiologist to be with me here overnight and give me this IV,' " she recounted.

Lee said the 50-year-old singer complained his body felt cold on one side and hot on the other.

She said she warned him about potentially lethal side effects, including cardiac arrest if combined with other prescription medication.

"I said, 'This is not a safe medicine, please don't take this.'

" 'I look at you, Michael, and I've been around you long enough now, I love you as family. I would not give this to anyone.' "

Read more: http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/b132193_jackson_nurse_michael_this_not_safe.html#ixzz1Du8vOzew

well that is what Nurse Lee says....it is awful odd how Ms Lee came out of the woodwork at the time that she did...she dropped her information....and then she disappeared again. Not only that...but ..Michael obviously trusted Murray..HE was the doctor...Michael was the patient....Murray administered it in a home setting....HE IS the one that killed Michael...HE is the one on trial for IM.,,,Michael is the dead one.

 

[Mechi]

Don't worry, Ive been on a Forum before, I know the rules.

In an interview with ABC News, Lee, also a registered nurse, said Jackson was suffering terribly from insomnia and practically begged her for Diprivan, a general anesthetic normally administered in hospitals to knock people out before surgeries and not routinely prescribed to patients with sleeping disorders.

"He said, 'Find me an anesthesiologist—I don't care how much money they want—find me an anesthesiologist to be with me here overnight and give me this IV,' " she recounted.

Lee said the 50-year-old singer complained his body felt cold on one side and hot on the other.

She said she warned him about potentially lethal side effects, including cardiac arrest if combined with other prescription medication.

"I said, 'This is not a safe medicine, please don't take this.'

" 'I look at you, Michael, and I've been around you long enough now, I love you as family. I would not give this to anyone.' "

Read more: http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/b132193_jackson_nurse_michael_this_not_safe.html#ixzz1Du8vOzew

Well we had many ppl coming to this board shortly after June 25th 2009 telling us it's Michaels responsibility.
But what you're giving as proof... might is only evidence (if at all).
It's what this 'nurse' is telling and the one she said she told is not alive anymore.

There is some sense in patients signing papers when going into hospitals and there's some sense in patients signing papers when going to a doctor.

Medical professionals will better always care about that.

Sure every adult is responsible for their choice of medical advice, treatment etc... still many ppl sue even though... hmmmmm.

Then again I've been with lots of patients who would have signed whatever cuz they were in pain, cuz they were with constant throwing up... etc one could debate even the sense of these papers.

Fact is Michael asked a doctor and if you believe this Lee person he had a tendency of asking medical professionals more often... not a drug dealer around the next street corner or someone who wouldn't know better... a doctor asking for a 'salery' beyond sensible.

There is factual reason why Michaels death wasn't ruled a suicide but a homicide.




If AEG has a part in Michaels death will probably (hopefully) be checked later... it will depend on what ppl working for AEG knew... I wouldn't throw out that easily... just a few days ago a UScourt ruled it's not easily to throw out AEGLive could be responsible... it it to look into a bit more and deeper.



We'll see...

 

[Moon__Walk]

well that is what Nurse Lee says....it is awful odd how Ms Lee came out of the woodwork at the time that she did...she dropped her information....and then she disappeared again. Not only that...but ..Michael obviously trusted Murray..HE was the doctor...Michael was the patient....Murray administered it in a home setting....HE IS the one that killed Michael...HE is the one on trial for IM.,,,Michael is the dead one.

Well, She's said what she knows pertaining to Michael's need for drugs, What else does she have to say? Its not unusual that she's disappeared, She has no more to say. Yes, But their is also a reason Murray is on trial for Involuntary Manslaughter, Not Murder, because Michael played a part in the Propofal going in his system. He wasn't forced to take the powerful sedative.

And your parading "Murder" like it's a fact, NO it isnt! Your contradicting yourself. Do You Know the Rules in the Forum?

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

well that is what Nurse Lee says....it is awful odd how Ms Lee came out of the woodwork at the time that she did...she dropped her information....and then she disappeared again. Not only that...but ..Michael obviously trusted Murray..HE was the doctor...Michael was the patient....Murray administered it in a home setting....HE IS the one that killed Michael...HE is the one on trial for IM.,,,Michael is the dead one.

I have to agree. Can't people say whatever they want now that Michael is dead? How do we know they are telling the truth? I'm sorry. But MJ fans saw too many liars and disguised shysters come into Michael's life, put him through a whole bunch of turmoil and then slip away scott-free. I personally don't trust anyone at this point. Maybe I'm bitter. But I don't care about that now that Michael is gone when he should still be here.

 

[Moon__Walk]

I have to agree. Can't people say whatever they want now that Michael is dead? How do we know they are telling the truth? I'm sorry. But MJ fans saw too many liars and disguised shysters come into Michael's life, put him through a whole bunch of turmoil and then slip away scott-free. I personally don't trust anyone at this point. Maybe I'm bitter. But I don't care about that now that Michael is gone when he should still be here.

Yes, But some people chose to believe or not to believe a source depending on how it serves their pre conceived view, that no matter how much evidence contradicts their view, they'll just ignore it and use the "Dont trust anyone" Card...

 

[Mechi]

Yes, But some people chose to believe or not to believe a source depending on how it serves their pre conceived view, that no matter how much evidence contradicts their view, they'll just ignore it and use the "Dont trust anyone" Card...

I have a feeling you should talk about we and us instead of 'some ppl' and 'their'... we all have this tendency inside... it's proven by lots of tests in social psychology.

so yes everybody better knows their 'facts' and/or evidence.

Mrs. Lee said her part... but it's evidence not proven fact.

So does surely Dr. Murray when calling himself 'innocent' in court.

Surely it is the only chance for the defense of Murray to paint Michael responsible, addictive etc. but at the end of the day it shouldn't matter. He went to a medical professional asking for help cuz of insomnia. He didn't want to die.

Again as a real good minded medical professional (no matter if you're nurse or doctor) you better know your borderline and you always have your papers signed for that you can prove.

If you can't provide that it surely always leaves the door open for speculation... however it proves to me that you didn't act with some real professional dignity.

Should be punished by court and medical boards... btw independent completely from that it was Michael Jackson who died there.

 

[Moon__Walk]

I have a feeling you should talk about we and us instead of 'some ppl' and 'their'... we all have this tendency inside... it's proven by lots of tests in social psychology.

so yes everybody better knows their 'facts' and/or evidence.

Mrs. Lee said her part... but it's evidence not proven fact.

So does surely Dr. Murray when calling himself 'innocent' in court.

Surely it is the only chance for the defense of Murray to paint Michael responsible, addictive etc. but at the end of the day it shouldn't matter. He went to a medical professional asking for help cuz of insomnia. He didn't want to die.

Again as a real good minded medical professional (no matter if you're nurse or doctor) you better know your borderline and you always have your papers signed for that you can prove.

If you can't provide that it surely always leaves the door open for speculation... however it proves to me that you didn't act with some real professional dignity.

Should be punished by court and medical boards... btw independent completely from that it was Michael Jackson who died there.

Not necessarily, It depends on the person, Some people are just too biased and one sided to take on any evidence that conflict's their view, and other's take all evidence into account.

I never said Michael wanted to die. He need's sleep, Go to a sleep clinic, exhaust all safer options before going for a dangerous anesthetic that should only be used in a Hospital. And the fact that Murray is a Cardiologist and not an Anesthesiologist doesn't make sense either...

Don't get me wrong, Murray needs to be punished, He in part caused the death of one of my idol's and inspiration, through gross negligence and greed. But Im not biased in the sense that I see that Michael in part caused his own death, as harsh as that is for me to say.

 

[Mechi]

Not necessarily, It depends on the person, Some people are just too biased and one sided to take on any evidence that conflict's their view, and other's take all evidence into account.

I never said Michael wanted to die. He need's sleep, Go to a sleep clinic, exhaust all safer options before going for a dangerous anesthetic that should only be used in a Hospital. And the fact that Murray is a Cardiologist and not an Anesthesiologist doesn't make sense either...

Don't get me wrong, Murray needs to be punished, He in part caused the death of one of my idol's and inspiration, through gross negligence and greed. But Im not biased in the sense that I see that Michael in part caused his own death, as harsh as that is for me to say.

I understand where you're coming from... still what I try to tell you it's you only assuming Michael knew about the risk.

However smart and intelligent Michael was or wasn't, as a matter of fact he didn't study medicine.

See, even when a studied doctor as a patient would ask another studied doctor for a certain medication the responsibility lies with the studied doctor who prescribed and administered.

Fact is also we do not know what he knew and what he might asked for or even not... we do not know. That is only told to us... btw mainly by a through the prelim proven liar with the name Murray.

However it is well proven also what even a cardiologist has to learn to pass his exams.

I can only advice you and everybody to put aside emotions because it was Michael Jackson here who passed. You don't have to put that pain/anger on yourself that he might knew this or that he might is responsible or not... BEFORE THAT IS PROVEN... and it simply IS NOT PROVEN YET just told.

Again every patient going in a clinic signs papers again and again that certain risks were told (hopefully after they were really told)... and even then they often enough when suing are not called 'responsible'. You can not expect someone who didn't study to know all what's possible in medicine. It is the doctors responsibility to get all their information about their patient straight and actual, then also for prescribing and in this case even also for administering (Murray said he gave Michael all those meds).
As a matter of fact Murray can't provide anything proving Michael knew any risk or anything even close to that (btw all those benzos alone in the combination and doses given are already about a killing risk cuz those alone could risk breathing failure...)... and even that Michael got Diprivan before and survived isn't proving more than that or even that he REALLY KNEW THE RISK.

Murray studied medicine and specalized in cardiology, that means he better very well knew he is the one responsible for what happened. If not he only belongs into jail, far away from any patients (even if those would love him to the moon and back), every good doctor will agree with me here.
That he did what he did even though... put him very rightfully in front of that court.

Now let's wait what will be presented and really proven in court there and only judge from there? I really think that would be best.

 

[Moon__Walk]

I understand where you're coming from... still what I try to tell you it's you only assuming Michael knew about the risk.

However smart and intelligent Michael was or wasn't, as a matter of fact he didn't study medicine.

See, even when a studied doctor as a patient would ask another studied doctor for a certain medication the responsibility lies with the studied doctor who prescribed and administered.

Fact is also we do not know what he knew and what he might asked for or even not... we do not know. That is only told to us... btw mainly by a through the prelim proven liar with the name Murray.

However it is well proven also what even a cardiologist has to learn to pass his exams.

I can only advice you and everybody to put aside emotions because it was Michael Jackson here who passed. You don't have to put that pain/anger on yourself that he might knew this or that he might is responsible or not... BEFORE THAT IS PROVEN... and it simply IS NOT PROVEN YET just told.

Again every patient going in a clinic signs papers again and again that certain risks were told (hopefully after they were really told)... and even then they often enough when suing are not called 'responsible'. You can not expect someone who didn't study to know all what's possible in medicine. It is the doctors responsibility to get all their information about their patient straight and actual, then also for prescribing and in this case even also for administering (Murray said he gave Michael all those meds).
As a matter of fact Murray can't provide anything proving Michael knew any risk or anything even close to that (btw all those benzos alone in the combination and doses given are already about a killing risk cuz those alone could risk breathing failure...)... and even that Michael got Diprivan before and survived isn't proving more than that or even that he REALLY KNEW THE RISK.

Murray studied medicine and specalized in cardiology, that means he better very well knew he is the one responsible for what happened. If not he only belongs into jail, far away from any patients (even if those would love him to the moon and back), every good doctor will agree with me here.
That he did what he did even though... put him very rightfully in front of that court.

Now let's wait what will be presented and really proven in court there and only judge from there? I really think that would be best.

Well, It would make sense for an anesthesiologist to be with Michael, Not a Cardiologist, and I wonder why the nurse would lie about the conversation she had with Michael!

 

[Mechi]

Well, It would make sense for an anesthesiologist to be with Michael, Not a Cardiologist, and I wonder why the nurse would lie about the conversation she had with Michael!

It doesn't matter if the nurse lies (bought in by someone for example, or just going for her five minutes of fame for example) or not. It's at the end of a day not proving a thing.

The point is it would have made sense for any medical doctor to refrain from doing the points I've given before... but let me repeat them.
1) stay away from giving diprivan with the indication of insomnia
2) administering diprivan in a home setting with not even half of the proper needed monitorin devices
3) leaving a patient alone whom I've first administered such a dangerous combination of Benzos and then on top of it finally administered also diprivan... honestly every student of medicine must roll their eyes here
4) not giving correct cpr
5) not giving imediately complete information about the medication the patient 'in problems' got to the rescuers appearing at the scene
6) not giving imediately complete information about the medication the patient 'in problems' got to the medical professionals when arriving at the hospital

and honestly that's the small abc for even medical students, that's what really ticks me off.

It would have made perfect sense no matter if the patient knew the risk or not, no matter if the patient was Michael Jackson or not, it would have for sure saved a life, that's why.

 

[jrsfan]

The Jacksons have called Murray the 'fall guy', and they've gone as far as saying

the will to be fake, that MJ would never have rehired Frank Dileo, and that Kenny

Ortega was one of the people responsible for his death, yet they haven't said

anything about the guy who built the fence around Michael and negotiated THE contract,

who also happens to be the one Michael refers to, on tape, as having created

a divide between him and his representatives. He was hiding $5 million even after having

been fired, and he said on TV to be in charge of Michael Jackson's business after

he died.

Am I the only one who finds their silence about Tohme strange?

Yes, I find the silence strange about Thome & also that Tohme & Phillips came to the hospital together:

http://yfrog.com/5mtohmearrivingwithphillij

Also that even though he was fired, he was still president of MJJ Productions as I recall. Correct me if I am wrong, I'm tired.

 

[jrsfan]

Also, I thought I would raise the subject of Dr. Klein - in his TMZ interview in part 2, he talked about MJ wanting propofol 4 years prior to his death, had called his office 2 weeks prior looking for a new anesthesiologist etc. He also talked about in his LKL. good for the defense or prosecution?

 

[moodyblue97]

Well, It would make sense for an anesthesiologist to be with Michael, Not a Cardiologist, and I wonder why the nurse would lie about the conversation she had with Michael!

Same reason as many others who talk about talking with him..

 

[ivy]

No, But the Propofal wasn't forced into his veins. Michael knew of the dangers of an Anesthesia being administered to his body. That's what I mean by Michael in part being responsible.

In short it's a safe drug if given properly. If he believed Murray was able to give it safely then you cannot argue a willingly taking risk.

Also, I thought I would raise the subject of Dr. Klein - in his TMZ interview in part 2, he talked about MJ wanting propofol 4 years prior to his death, had called his office 2 weeks prior looking for a new anesthesiologist etc. He also talked about in his LKL. good for the defense or prosecution?

mostly for defense.. any history of propofol or addiction would help the defense. pm me if you want details.

 

[xthunderx2]

Well, She's said what she knows pertaining to Michael's need for drugs, What else does she have to say? Its not unusual that she's disappeared, She has no more to say. Yes, But their is also a reason Murray is on trial for Involuntary Manslaughter, Not Murder, because Michael played a part in the Propofal going in his system. He wasn't forced to take the powerful sedative.

And your parading "Murder" like it's a fact, NO it isnt! Your contradicting yourself. Do You Know the Rules in the Forum?

First of all in my posts I stated that Murray was on trial for IM...

my prevous post....

"well that is what Nurse Lee says....it is awful odd how Ms Lee came out of the woodwork at the time that she did...she dropped her information....and then she disappeared again. Not only that...but ..Michael obviously trusted Murray..HE was the doctor...Michael was the patient....Murray administered it in a home setting....HE IS the one that killed Michael...HE is the one on trial for IM.,,,Michael is the dead one. " __________________

Either you nor I were privy to the conversations that took place between Michael and Murray..so we dont KNOW as FACT as to what was said to Michael about the Propofol. Murray was the who administered it...Murray is the one that gave all the Benzo's...MUrray is the one that didn't have the proper equipment for his patient...Murray is the one that let Mchael die. MIchael was the patient...Murray was the doctor. Murray has to take FULL responsibility for what happened to HIS patient. Murray was the one that tried to COVER UP the crime seen...MUrray was the one that held out from the paramedics on seen that he EVEN gave the propofol to Michael,,,,and Murray is the one that held that information from the doc on seen at the hospital... with all that being said..please tell me WHERE it is Michael's fault that HE died.??? HE bares NO responsibly whats so ever in his death....Murray is the guilty party...Murray is the one on trial for IM....NOT MICHAEL. And Yes..I KNOW the rules of MJJC VERY well...thank you. Everythng I stated in my post...IS FACT!!

 

[Mechi]

mostly for defense.. any history of propofol or addiction would help the defense. pm me if you want details.

I wouldn't rule out a good argument for the DA because it's the perfect motive?!
Michael was looking for someone else to come with him?! He didn't want Murray anymore?! He lost his temper and killed Michael with meds he thought would disappear soon enough not to prove a damn thing?!
That's speculation of cuz (marked by ending my sentences with ?!)... but possible. Many do miss a motive in Murrays actions yet.

Aside form that I think the addiction talk is not as strong as ppl make it. There was no sign for addiciton in the coroners report. Also propofol itself has no known addicitonal potential to my knowledge, I couldn't fin only one experiment in research proving that yet. The Benzos Michael were given 'to wean him off of his propofol addiction' as only Murray allegedly could name it, however do have a strong potential for addiction to my knowledge.

All in all it proves more Murray could have said no, but didn't... whyever.

 

[wendy2004]

In short it's a safe drug if given properly. If he believed Murray was able to give it safely then you cannot argue a willingly taking risk.



mostly for defense.. any history of propofol or addiction would help the defense. pm me if you want details.

Completely disagree with the bolded. Any history of propofol does not help the defense when put into proper context. No one has said that Michael was asking for or requesting propofol willy nilly. For all the times any doctor or "source" or whoever has said Michael inquired about it (whether one believes them or not), he was"allegedly" ALWAYS insistent on the person knowing what they were doing. He asked for anesthesiologist who would clearly be the person who knew what they were doing. In Murray's case, it's pretty obvious this dumbarse convinced Michael he could administer the drug properly without one present.

There has been NO evidence that Michael has let just anyone give him propofol....again, that's whether one believes any of the doctors, nurses, etc.. who mentioned him inquiring about it.

And whatever Michael's participation in this was, again, this is not about him. It's about Murray taking responsibility for HIS part in this...whether Michael asked for it or not...whether he knew the risks or not. This is about MURRAY purchasing propofol, storing it in the house, and administering it even tho he he was not properly licensed to do so NOR having the proper equipment on hand for lifesaving purposes. I would go out on a limb and say whatever RISK Michael took, it was becuz he was given a false sense of security by Murray that the manner in which he was giving propofol was safe...even if it was different from however Michael MAY have received it in the past for dental work, etc.

This trial is about Murray and HIS WILLFUL negligence. I believe one of the ppl who testified at the preliminary hearing said it best that EVEN IF someone wants to say Michael was known to be addicted to propofol...it was MURRAY who supplied the drug and left it within Michael's reach when he exited the room to pee or make calls. If he wants to say someone else may have put the drug in Michael's juicebox (rolls eyes) it was his negligence that left propofol out in the open for someone else to do damage. Still negligent. This "doctor" even LIED for the sole purpose of purchasing propofol.

He does not, for one second, get a pass due to any percentage of responsibility that MAY be attributed to MJ. MJ's responsibility is moot, here...IMO. Whether it was 1% or 50%, Murray STILL has to pay for his own participation.

He took an oath: FIRST...do no harm. Lying to get propofol was HARM number ONE and the main act that got this entire ball rolling. The defense can say all day that if it wasn't Murray, it could've been some other doctor. Well, it wasn't some other doctor. It was CONRAD MURRAY who made the decision to do this and failed at it. Intentionally or a mistake, he's gotta pay for it, especially when you consider everything else (improper safeguards during administration as well as improper and dumbarse lifesaving attempts after the fact).

This is ALL ABOUT MURRAY. History of propofol has nothing to do with Murray's improper handling and rescuing in THIS particular incident. All the other times Michael "MAY" have received it, he came out of it ALIVE. The only difference here was CONRAD MURRAY.

 

[StacyJ]

Completely disagree with the bolded. Any history of propofol does not help the defense when put into proper context. No one has said that Michael was asking for or requesting propofol willy nilly. For all the times any doctor or "source" or whoever has said Michael inquired about it (whether one believes them or not), he was"allegedly" ALWAYS insistent on the person knowing what they were doing. He asked for anesthesiologist who would clearly be the person who knew what they were doing. In Murray's case, it's pretty obvious this dumbarse convinced Michael he could administer the drug properly without one present.

There has been NO evidence that Michael has let just anyone give him propofol....again, that's whether one believes any of the doctors, nurses, etc.. who mentioned him inquiring about it.

And whatever Michael's participation in this was, again, this is not about him. It's about Murray taking responsibility for HIS part in this...whether Michael asked for it or not...whether he knew the risks or not. This is about MURRAY purchasing propofol, storing it in the house, and administering it even tho he he was not properly licensed to do so NOR having the proper equipment on hand for lifesaving purposes. I would go out on a limb and say whatever RISK Michael took, it was becuz he was given a false sense of security by Murray that the manner in which he was giving propofol was safe...even if it was different from however Michael MAY have received it in the past for dental work, etc.

This trial is about Murray and HIS WILLFUL negligence. I believe one of the ppl who testified at the preliminary hearing said it best that EVEN IF someone wants to say Michael was known to be addicted to propofol...it was MURRAY who supplied the drug and left it within Michael's reach when he exited the room to pee or make calls. If he wants to say someone else may have put the drug in Michael's juicebox (rolls eyes) it was his negligence that left propofol out in the open for someone else to do damage. Still negligent. This "doctor" even LIED for the sole purpose of purchasing propofol.

He does not, for one second, get a pass due to any percentage of responsibility that MAY be attributed to MJ. MJ's responsibility is moot, here...IMO. Whether it was 1% or 50%, Murray STILL has to pay for his own participation.

He took an oath: FIRST...do no harm. Lying to get propofol was HARM number ONE and the main act that got this entire ball rolling. The defense can say all day that if it wasn't Murray, it could've been some other doctor. Well, it wasn't some other doctor. It was CONRAD MURRAY who made the decision to do this and failed at it. Intentionally or a mistake, he's gotta pay for it, especially when you consider everything else (improper safeguards during administration as well as improper and dumbarse lifesaving attempts after the fact).

This is ALL ABOUT MURRAY. History of propofol has nothing to do with Murray's improper handling and rescuing in THIS particular incident. All the other times Michael "MAY" have received it, he came out of it ALIVE. The only difference here was CONRAD MURRAY.

Excellent post... anyway you look at it Murray is negligent. Like you said leaving MJ alone period is negligence enough. If he felt MJ was addicted to it, that's even more reason not to give it to him and even more reason not to leave him alone. That's like leaving crack within reach of a crack addict. Besides MJ was too loopy from all the other sedatives there is no way he begged or injected himself with anything. Murray claims all of this went down in 2 minutes. He's a liar because I would think MJ could've been saved within 2 minutes if the proper life saving procedures were followed. Murray knows he guilty. That is why he didn't tell the EMTs or the ER doctors what he gave him. That showed a conscienceness of guilt.