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Jury sequestering discussion / Appeal / Stay denied
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ExoticPrincess
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Its one thing after the other is'nt it?......why is it that Michael Jackson losing his life seems to not be an important of an issue to them? whats all this delay, delaying for? they can't possible think that everyone who gave a damn about this man will somehow forget that he was killed?
If this is once again delayed, i don't see this trial starting until next year.
Its one thing after the other is'nt it?......why is it that Michael Jackson losing his life seems to not be an important of an issue to them? whats all this delay, delaying for? they can't possible think that everyone who gave a damn about this man will somehow forget that he was killed?
If this is once again delayed, i don't see this trial starting until next year.
StephluvsMJ
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
I hope it's not delayed yet again. Just get it over and done with. They're trying to put off the inevitable.
I hope it's not delayed yet again. Just get it over and done with. They're trying to put off the inevitable.
Petrarose
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
These were the same people who wanted a swift trial. Yet they were the first to begin making attempts for postponements. They are just causing more rage to come on their heads by angry and disappointed fans. Now let's see if Taj and the family will run to twitter to complain about the disgrace of this delay in the justice of their loving Michael. Let us see how much their outcry will be now. Let us see if they will go on TV to talk about it as they did with the tribute.
These were the same people who wanted a swift trial. Yet they were the first to begin making attempts for postponements. They are just causing more rage to come on their heads by angry and disappointed fans. Now let's see if Taj and the family will run to twitter to complain about the disgrace of this delay in the justice of their loving Michael. Let us see how much their outcry will be now. Let us see if they will go on TV to talk about it as they did with the tribute.
love is magical
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
To be fair, the charge is brought against Conrad Murray by the People of California. It's a criminal case. None of the Jacksons has any say in the trial process. Whether there will be any delay depends on how timely the Appeal Court look into the defense filing. The Jacksons can do nothing. It's out of their hands. Actually, I think it's better if they keep their mouths shut and let the prosecutors do their job.
To be fair, the charge is brought against Conrad Murray by the People of California. It's a criminal case. None of the Jacksons has any say in the trial process. Whether there will be any delay depends on how timely the Appeal Court look into the defense filing. The Jacksons can do nothing. It's out of their hands. Actually, I think it's better if they keep their mouths shut and let the prosecutors do their job.
Petrarose
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Yes ^^ but that is not the point of the statement. The point is that there should be some form of outrage. The point is not that they have something to do with the trial process. It is just like families who have someone in their family killed. There will be a trial, but they go on TV to bring the issues for justice out to the masses. That is the point of the statement.
Yes ^^ but that is not the point of the statement. The point is that there should be some form of outrage. The point is not that they have something to do with the trial process. It is just like families who have someone in their family killed. There will be a trial, but they go on TV to bring the issues for justice out to the masses. That is the point of the statement.
love is magical
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
First, I don't know whether Taj will tweet something or not. I hope he doesn't, as Paris follow his tweets. Second, I don't know how they feel in private. How do we know there is no some form of outrage within the family. Remember, we all are seeing things from the outside. As much as we don't like the Jacksons, they are the one who lost a father, son, a brother and an uncle. Third, different people react differently. I'm telling you I'm extremely frustrated. But, I'm not outraged. I don't get angry easily. That's just my personality. So, even if I'm not outraged, that doesn't mean I don't care. So, if there is no outrage from any of the family member, it's not a sign of anything.
First, I don't know whether Taj will tweet something or not. I hope he doesn't, as Paris follow his tweets. Second, I don't know how they feel in private. How do we know there is no some form of outrage within the family. Remember, we all are seeing things from the outside. As much as we don't like the Jacksons, they are the one who lost a father, son, a brother and an uncle. Third, different people react differently. I'm telling you I'm extremely frustrated. But, I'm not outraged. I don't get angry easily. That's just my personality. So, even if I'm not outraged, that doesn't mean I don't care. So, if there is no outrage from any of the family member, it's not a sign of anything.
Ramona122003
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
When you consider the pure rage T3 gave on twitter over the album, or the boastful twits Randy gave when the AEG lawsuit went through, and his anger rant when Kenny was dropped, the silents they have over Murray is deafing.
Toya have time to twit about an infect insect bite, Jackie have time to twit pictures of himself, Jermaine has time to twit about his book, Mrs. Jackson has time to go on tv to sell a tribute and pimp the kids, but not world has been spoken about the trail except in passing.
It kind of gives us a clue where their priorities lie.
When you consider the pure rage T3 gave on twitter over the album, or the boastful twits Randy gave when the AEG lawsuit went through, and his anger rant when Kenny was dropped, the silents they have over Murray is deafing.
Toya have time to twit about an infect insect bite, Jackie have time to twit pictures of himself, Jermaine has time to twit about his book, Mrs. Jackson has time to go on tv to sell a tribute and pimp the kids, but not world has been spoken about the trail except in passing.
It kind of gives us a clue where their priorities lie.
Petrarose
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
EXACTLY Ramona ^^. The thing is we need some family members to do some public campaigning too. We are doing a good job of it, but since they are family it is easier for them to gain TV opportunities which can serve a good purpose. Murray's lawyers are running to TMZ all the time making outlandish statements about Michael and the judge's rulings. Now is a good time for some members of the family to say something publicly. I think if I hear that statement "we don't know what they are doing/feeling/saying in private," I am going to scream!!!!!!!!
EXACTLY Ramona ^^. The thing is we need some family members to do some public campaigning too. We are doing a good job of it, but since they are family it is easier for them to gain TV opportunities which can serve a good purpose. Murray's lawyers are running to TMZ all the time making outlandish statements about Michael and the judge's rulings. Now is a good time for some members of the family to say something publicly. I think if I hear that statement "we don't know what they are doing/feeling/saying in private," I am going to scream!!!!!!!!
Nonoka
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Tired of injustice
Tired of the schemes
The lies are disgusting
So what does it mean
Kicking me down
I got to get up
As jacked as it sounds
The whole system sucks
You take the words right out of my mouth, Michael.
Tired of injustice
Tired of the schemes
The lies are disgusting
So what does it mean
Kicking me down
I got to get up
As jacked as it sounds
The whole system sucks
You take the words right out of my mouth, Michael.
KingMikeJ
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Michael's death/murder and Conrad Murray's trial is probably very painful for them to talk about so I don't blame them.
It's her personal Twitter, why wouldn't she? Some people complain about the Jacksons talking about Michael all the time and now they get criticized for talking about themselves?
It is his personal Twitter, why wouldn't he tweet pictures of himself?!
He is selling a book and promoting via Twitter, nothing unusual here.
I'm not defending this, but to back up my first point I will repeat - it is probably very painful for the family to talk about the trial.
Katherine has spoken about it in interviews and Jermaine tweets about it regularly.
Michael's death/murder and Conrad Murray's trial is probably very painful for them to talk about so I don't blame them.
It's her personal Twitter, why wouldn't she? Some people complain about the Jacksons talking about Michael all the time and now they get criticized for talking about themselves?
It is his personal Twitter, why wouldn't he tweet pictures of himself?!
He is selling a book and promoting via Twitter, nothing unusual here.
I'm not defending this, but to back up my first point I will repeat - it is probably very painful for the family to talk about the trial.
Katherine has spoken about it in interviews and Jermaine tweets about it regularly.
maral
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
and frankly the more delay the more Murray's true pathetic side emerges..... he's looking more desperate than ever
i somewhat agree. but than again the Juros in 05 weren't sequestered and they were fair even though sneddon tried all the dirty ways to influens them, so why should Murrays case be different.....
and frankly the more delay the more Murray's true pathetic side emerges..... he's looking more desperate than ever
TheChosenOne
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Yes, there is more to the lives of the Jacksons than what is going with Michael.
But as a show business family and as people who purport to want to protect and defend Michael's legacy the Jackson family have been an abysmal failure!
No-one is saying that they cannot have personal tweets. It is their right. But when something of importance as it relates to the legacy of their beloved son and brother is ignored it can be frustrating!
Yes, there is more to the lives of the Jacksons than what is going with Michael.
But as a show business family and as people who purport to want to protect and defend Michael's legacy the Jackson family have been an abysmal failure!
No-one is saying that they cannot have personal tweets. It is their right. But when something of importance as it relates to the legacy of their beloved son and brother is ignored it can be frustrating!
maral
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
because everything else has failed and he can't win this case with logic
ExoticPrincess
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Cause he's a dummy grasping at straws!
Cause he's a dummy grasping at straws!
Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
First let me post this. I asked on a legal forum for advice about how much the trial can be delayed. this is the answer given to me by a lawyer.
"If the stay is granted that means the COA is taking the appeal seriously and you can expect a decision in about 3 months. If no stay is granted the trial will proceed and any decision by the COA will be moot. The key for you people out there in TV land is whether the stay is granted."
so as far as I can understand COA (court of appeals) will evaluate the stay request. If they don't grant the stay the trial will go on.
If they grant the stay then their decision will be done in 3 months.
So depending on the decision we are looking to either no delay or a delay of 3 months.
First let me post this. I asked on a legal forum for advice about how much the trial can be delayed. this is the answer given to me by a lawyer.
"If the stay is granted that means the COA is taking the appeal seriously and you can expect a decision in about 3 months. If no stay is granted the trial will proceed and any decision by the COA will be moot. The key for you people out there in TV land is whether the stay is granted."
so as far as I can understand COA (court of appeals) will evaluate the stay request. If they don't grant the stay the trial will go on.
If they grant the stay then their decision will be done in 3 months.
So depending on the decision we are looking to either no delay or a delay of 3 months.
love is magical
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elusive moonwalker
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Thanks ivy.so the stay decision will have to happen by thurs?
Thanks ivy.so the stay decision will have to happen by thurs?
elusive moonwalker
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Basically stopping the trial.stay means to put on hold.so they will stay the trial which then gives them time to rule on the appeal. If they dont grant the stay then i guess it means they wont hear the appeal
Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
elusive is right.
Murray's defense appealed judge Pastor's decision and at the same time they asked for a stay. Stay meaning they put the case "on hold" while the court of appeals make the decision.
According to this lawyer (John Kaman - criminal defense lawyer) court of appeals first decide on the stay request. If they say no to the stay request the trial will go on as planned. If they accept the stay request they'll put the case on hold until they make a decision on the appeal (jury sequestration) and again according to this lawyer that will happen within 3 months time period.
elusive is right.
Murray's defense appealed judge Pastor's decision and at the same time they asked for a stay. Stay meaning they put the case "on hold" while the court of appeals make the decision.
According to this lawyer (John Kaman - criminal defense lawyer) court of appeals first decide on the stay request. If they say no to the stay request the trial will go on as planned. If they accept the stay request they'll put the case on hold until they make a decision on the appeal (jury sequestration) and again according to this lawyer that will happen within 3 months time period.
elusive moonwalker
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Cheers ivy jez i didnt think we would be looking at upto three months.well no point stressing untill we know on the stay i guess *sigh*
Cheers ivy jez i didnt think we would be looking at upto three months.well no point stressing untill we know on the stay i guess *sigh*
Justthefacts
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
How did we get from Murray wanted a speedy trial to them trying to put it on hold? This is a rhetorical question BTW
How did we get from Murray wanted a speedy trial to them trying to put it on hold? This is a rhetorical question BTW
love is magical
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Thanks elusive and ivy. Do we know when we'll get a decision from COA re the stay request?
Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
exactly. I just put it as a piece of information so that we know how the system works. We'll know more once the stay decision happens.
I think it was all a tactic. they wanted to catch prosecution unprepared such as introducing the self drink theory and hoping that the prosecution wouldn't be able to debunk it. It backfired on them thanks to Judge Pastor.
I'm guessing by the jury selection date because without a stay order it will go on.
exactly. I just put it as a piece of information so that we know how the system works. We'll know more once the stay decision happens.
I think it was all a tactic. they wanted to catch prosecution unprepared such as introducing the self drink theory and hoping that the prosecution wouldn't be able to debunk it. It backfired on them thanks to Judge Pastor.
I'm guessing by the jury selection date because without a stay order it will go on.
elusive moonwalker
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Yeah at least we know the process and what we are dealing with
Yeah at least we know the process and what we are dealing with
Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Actually they have ulterior motives in my opinion.
Case Anthony trial was televised but the jury was sequestered. The televised trial and commentary wasn't defense friendly mainly all the media and the public believing that Casey Anthony was a murderer. The defense expects the same thing to happen for Murray. For example I posted some transcripts from Nancy Grace - even though she still believes that Michael to be *questionable* in regards to molestation accusations, she also calls Murray a murderer. So I think the defense is expecting a similar trend towards Murray - even though media might not be MJ friendly, they will still tend to blame Murray for his death.
The interesting thing about Casey Anthony trial is that even though all the media and public believed her to be a killer, the jury - which was sequestered- found her not guilty. Now they are trying to achieve the same here. They think if they lock the jury and they don't see the public and media hate towards Murray they will be more likely to come up with a not guilty verdict.
Now I also followed Casey Anthony trial quite closely and there have been some evaluations in regards to the outcome. One was that she was too highly charged (capital murder) and the jurors were unwilling to give her such high sentence - if lower charges were presented as alternative would be better. We don't have this issue with the Murray trial. The charge is the lowest possible charge.
Second argument was that the sequestered jurors forming a common mindset and friendships. It's kinda like this: when you sequester jury they have no access to their families and friends and they only have contact with other jurors, they became friendly with each other. So they don't want to disappoint their jury friends. An opinion leader can be present and that person can shape the opinions of the other people as they want to be "friendly". For example research has shown that if a person has an alternative belief and has access to his/her families for support they can stand their ground : such as if a jury believes a person to be guilty while the others don't and can talk with their families and get support like "do what's right, fight for what you believe" etc they can keep voting guilty for a long time despite the other jurors position. On the other hand research shows that if the jury are sequestered they can't stay their ground and can change opinions /or persuaded otherwise by the group mindset.
I don't know if I was able to express it properly.
Actually they have ulterior motives in my opinion.
Case Anthony trial was televised but the jury was sequestered. The televised trial and commentary wasn't defense friendly mainly all the media and the public believing that Casey Anthony was a murderer. The defense expects the same thing to happen for Murray. For example I posted some transcripts from Nancy Grace - even though she still believes that Michael to be *questionable* in regards to molestation accusations, she also calls Murray a murderer. So I think the defense is expecting a similar trend towards Murray - even though media might not be MJ friendly, they will still tend to blame Murray for his death.
The interesting thing about Casey Anthony trial is that even though all the media and public believed her to be a killer, the jury - which was sequestered- found her not guilty. Now they are trying to achieve the same here. They think if they lock the jury and they don't see the public and media hate towards Murray they will be more likely to come up with a not guilty verdict.
Now I also followed Casey Anthony trial quite closely and there have been some evaluations in regards to the outcome. One was that she was too highly charged (capital murder) and the jurors were unwilling to give her such high sentence - if lower charges were presented as alternative would be better. We don't have this issue with the Murray trial. The charge is the lowest possible charge.
Second argument was that the sequestered jurors forming a common mindset and friendships. It's kinda like this: when you sequester jury they have no access to their families and friends and they only have contact with other jurors, they became friendly with each other. So they don't want to disappoint their jury friends. An opinion leader can be present and that person can shape the opinions of the other people as they want to be "friendly". For example research has shown that if a person has an alternative belief and has access to his/her families for support they can stand their ground : such as if a jury believes a person to be guilty while the others don't and can talk with their families and get support like "do what's right, fight for what you believe" etc they can keep voting guilty for a long time despite the other jurors position. On the other hand research shows that if the jury are sequestered they can't stay their ground and can change opinions /or persuaded otherwise by the group mindset.
I don't know if I was able to express it properly.
LastTear
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
You expressed it brilliantly as always Ivy, thank you.
I believe Murray is due back in Pastors court Tuesday, I guess that will still happen??
I really hope that we are not looking at another long delay.
You expressed it brilliantly as always Ivy, thank you.
I believe Murray is due back in Pastors court Tuesday, I guess that will still happen??
I really hope that we are not looking at another long delay.
smoothlugar
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Most interesting your explanation, Ivy. Thanks!!
Most interesting your explanation, Ivy. Thanks!!
Aquarius
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Re: Jackson doctor defense files appeal, seeks delay
Thanks Ivy. I still have my reservations about how the media is going to portray Michael. What I've perceived from the media so far is that the dr. acted irresponsible and they haven't shown much kidness towards Michael. That was the reason of my question; I never thought about the dynamics when jurors were sequestered, very insightful.
Let's just hope the stay is not granted.
Thanks Ivy. I still have my reservations about how the media is going to portray Michael. What I've perceived from the media so far is that the dr. acted irresponsible and they haven't shown much kidness towards Michael. That was the reason of my question; I never thought about the dynamics when jurors were sequestered, very insightful.
Let's just hope the stay is not granted.