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Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

Tony R said:
I feel they need a real fan in charge of these releases
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It's not like fans agree about the releases though.

I mean look to the past releases. First people wanted new songs. Some wanted untouched songs aka demos the way MJ left them. When given such demos some found it underwhelming so they wanted both the demos and the finished versions. Some fans don't want the already leaked songs. Some people argued the songs MJ didn't release in his lifetime shouldn't be released - hence no new releases. It doesn't end there. While fans want live performances, they can't agree on which ones they prefer. Even in a documentary fans have different expectations about who should participate in such documentaries. As this thread showed us original concepts by MJ can also be mocked.

So this is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind a situation IMO. Estate or fans in charge of releases wouldn't make much of a difference though. I don't see any release to be widely accepted by the fans. Just look to the past releases.

I thought Bad 25 was conceptually really good. Original album, untouched demo, remixes, live audio, a concert, a documentary - widely criticized
then there was Xscape - which I thought was best of two worlds with original and new versions - widely criticized
now we have OTW just the original with original artwork concept - again criticized

So personally I don't think there is a magic formula to please all the fans. Fans will always find a thing to criticize.
 
Guys move on from that "black michael" discussion please. Not only this is not allowed on MJJC, it's disrespectful and inappropriate.
 
A piece of chalk is the stupidest thing ive heard of for a re-release. A holographic off the wall cover, a la This Is It DVD would have even been better.

A piece of chalk.....
 
Ivy, well said.

I think they should stop releasing anything ever again, and if they do plan to release something, they have to run their idea through every single fan (millions) and wait for their approval - which means we still don't get anything:D


Tony R said:
I feel they need a real fan in charge of these releases, when I see repackages of other artists (Dylan, Elvis, Springsteen) it really seems a true lover of the music has been involved.
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Maybe you loved those releases but it doesn't mean everybody agree with you on that.
I got curious about that bolded bit and had a look at Amazon reviews. Funnily enough, those too had 1, 2, 3 star reviews, so seemingly those true lovers of music cannot get it right either.
 
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ivy said:
It's not like fans agree about the releases though.

I mean look to the past releases. First people wanted new songs. Some wanted untouched songs aka demos the way MJ left them. When given such demos some found it underwhelming so they wanted both the demos and the finished versions. Some fans don't want the already leaked songs. Some people argued the songs MJ didn't release in his lifetime shouldn't be released - hence no new releases. It doesn't end there. While fans want live performances, they can't agree on which ones they prefer. Even in a documentary fans have different expectations about who should participate in such documentaries. As this thread showed us original concepts by MJ can also be mocked.


So personally I don't think there is a magic formula to please all the fans. Fans will always find a thing to criticize.
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I don't think anyone is mocking Michael's 1970s ideas for cover artwork. I'm sure that all of the sincere and committed fans here want the OTW re-issue and documentary to be a smash success. I think most people feel that there would be more chance of this success if the marketing was focused around Michael the incomparable singer, songwriter and dancer, and not Michael the (maybe slightly less than incomparable) cover design artist.
 
myosotis;4128969 said:
I don't think anyone is mocking Michael's 1970s ideas for cover artwork. I'm sure that all of the sincere and committed fans here want the OTW re-issue and documentary to be a smash success. I think most people feel that there would be more chance of this success if the marketing was focused around Michael the incomparable singer, songwriter and dancer, and not Michael the (maybe slightly less than incomparable) cover design artist.
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This is getting OTW now. I failed to see any article in which this release was marketed around the chalk.

Did you read any articles when news broke about this release?
"THE ALBUM – The importance of Michael Jackson's Off the Wall cannot be overstated. Recorded when he was just 20 years old, the album heralded Michael's stunning emancipation as a singular musical force and creative visionary. It smashed the ceiling on record sales for black artists, ushering in an exciting new era of R&B-to-pop crossover airplay, chart, marketing and sales trends not seen before in modern pop music. It's the record that "invented modern pop as we know it," wrote Rolling Stone. For fellow black artists of the day, Michael served as an illuminating inspiration. "

That was pr release and it was repeated nearly all of the articles, and no chalk was marketed in any way or form, thats all on fans here.
The whole chalk thingy is minuscule but somehow thats all what we can talk here?

They need to release another 1 minute clip, if that can help us over chalk-gate and we get something else to concentrate.

Priorities, people priorities:yes:
 
myosotis said:
I don't think anyone is mocking Michael's 1970s ideas for cover artwork. I'm sure that all of the sincere and committed fans here want the OTW re-issue and documentary to be a smash success. I think most people feel that there would be more chance of this success if the marketing was focused around Michael the incomparable singer, songwriter and dancer, and not Michael the (maybe slightly less than incomparable) cover design artist.
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I don't think the Estate expects it to be a smash success and if fans do they will probably be disappointed. Re-issues rarely are a smash success.

I don't like the chalk idea myself and I definitely would have loved to have demos and stuff instead, but now all we talk about is the damn chalk as if that's all we get here. Well, the main thing in this release is the new documentary, not the chalk.

I don't even think this is targeted for hard core fans. Nor it is an anniversary release of the album. It seems to me Spike Lee simply made this docu and maybe the Estate just wanted to attach the album to it so people can buy it in a package if the documentary boosts some interest in the album. I think that's all. That there will be a huge OTW anniversary has only been fan rumour, don't forget that. And now if we don't get what fans fantasized about or what they were made believe by some fan groups on Facebook we all act disappointed. But to be honest no one really promised us a big OTW anniversary in the first place.

I think generally if the documentary is well done it can be a positive project for MJ and OTW. A smash success it will be not but anything positive that may boost interest in MJ's work in the general public I do welcome. Of course, the documentary can also be bad. Then it's time for criticism.
 
I might have got this wrong, but OTW was released in August 1979, making it currently 36 years old.
Are the estate marketing this release as "OTW 35" ?
 
MJRemixed said:
I might have got this wrong, but OTW was released in August 1979, making it currently 36 years old.
Are the estate marketing this release as "OTW 35" ?
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No. No one ever said this is an anniversary release.
 
Bubs;4128970 said:
This is getting OTW now. I failed to see any article in which this release was marketed around the chalk.

Did you read any articles when news broke about this release?
"
The whole chalk thingy is minuscule but somehow thats all what we can talk here?

They need to release another 1 minute clip, if that can help us over chalk-gate and we get something else to concentrate.THE ALBUM – The importance of Michael Jackson's Off the Wall cannot be overstated. Recorded when he was just 20 years old, the album heralded Michael's stunning emancipation as a singular musical force and creative visionary. It smashed the ceiling on record sales for black artists, ushering in an exciting new era of R&B-to-pop crossover airplay, chart, marketing and sales trends not seen before in modern pop music. It's the record that "invented modern pop as we know it," wrote Rolling Stone. For fellow black artists of the day, Michael served as an illuminating inspiration. "

That was pr release and it was repeated nearly all of the articles, and no chalk was marketed in any way or form, thats all on fans here.

Priorities, people priorities:yes:
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I certainly don't want to 'go on' about it...but if a question is asked it seems impolite not to reply. Yes, I did see an announcement (not an article) when this package was released. The announcement said:

.....decided to take a different approach with this release – strip it down and keep it simple and allow everyone to celebrate the album that started it all with a fun, specially designed, collectible package ....


That and the photograph on amazon are the 'marketing' I am referring to. The decision that the 'package' was the means of 'celebration', and the photograph that shows potential buyers what the contents of the package are, which seems not to emphasise the new DVD/ Blu-ray.

I will be very happy to say no more.
 
respect77 said:
I don't think the Estate expects it to be a smash success and if fans do they will probably be disappointed. Re-issues rarely are a smash success.

I don't like the chalk idea myself and I definitely would have loved to have demos and stuff instead, but now all we talk about is the damn chalk as if that's all we get here. Well, the main thing in this release is the new documentary, not the chalk.

I don't even think this is targeted for hard core fans. Nor it is an anniversary release of the album. It seems to me Spike Lee simply made this docu and maybe the Estate just wanted to attach the album to it so people can buy it in a package if the documentary boosts some interest in the album. I think that's all. That there will be a huge OTW anniversary has only been fan rumour, don't forget that. And now if we don't get what fans fantasized about or what they were made believe by some fan groups on Facebook we all act disappointed. But to be honest no one really promised us a big OTW anniversary in the first place.

I think generally if the documentary is well done it can be a positive project for MJ and OTW. A smash success it will be not but anything positive that may boost interest in MJ's work in the general public I do welcome. Of course, the documentary can also be bad. Then it's time for criticism.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
AtlasAir said:
The chalk is about as exciting as when Invincible came in 5 colors.
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I think Invincible covers were cool. Nobody forced anyone to buy all 5 of them. But it was interesting that fans got to choose and if they wanted they could have purchased let's say just the red version instead of the classic silver one.

I think that's more fair than releasing the album like current artists are doing today. Standard Version, Special Edition, Deluxe Version, Best-Buy Exclusive Tracks, Walmart Exclusive Tracks, Japanese Edition... all at the same time and all of them have different tracklists and bonus tracks. That is exploitative in my opinion. Invincible was just innocent fun.
 
ivy said:
I thought Bad 25 was conceptually really good. Original album, untouched demo, remixes, live audio, a concert, a documentary - widely criticized
then there was Xscape - which I thought was best of two worlds with original and new versions - widely criticized
Click to expand...

I think that was discussed to death for million times but I'll say it again. Bad 25 was conceptually excellent. But when it came out it was full of flaws: damaged VHS converted to poor quality DVD and released in 2012, Pitbull, documentary again having the same poor quality VHS snippets, people like Justin Bieber, Mariah Carey, Chris Brown, Cee-Lo & Kanye West talking while having nothing remotely interesting to say, the ending of the celebration documentary with people talking about MJ's death and where they were at the time??

I agree that the Xscape album was best of two worlds and the best release so far. But finishing songs by original producers (something they tried to do on MICHAEL with majority of real songs) instead of contemporization process would be perfect in my opinion.
 
respect77 said:
It seems to me Spike Lee simply made this docu and maybe the Estate just wanted to attach the album to it so people can buy it in a package if the documentary boosts some interest in the album. I think that's all. That there will be a huge OTW anniversary has only been fan rumour, don't forget that. And now if we don't get what fans fantasized about or what they were made believe by some fan groups on Facebook we all act disappointed. But to be honest no one really promised us a big OTW anniversary in the first place.

I think generally if the documentary is well done it can be a positive project for MJ and OTW. A smash success it will be not but anything positive that may boost interest in MJ's work in the general public I do welcome. Of course, the documentary can also be bad. Then it's time for criticism.
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Thats what I think too, release OTW because documentary coming out.

@Myosotis, it is not really marketing if you read content of the product from Amazon. It is two different thing marketing on the media and product description on Amazon. When potential buyers finds their way to Amazon to at least look at the OTW, they are already being "sold by marketing" outside of Amazon.
 
barbee0715 said:
They'd probably need a committee of fans, since everyone here is so wildly different. Especially when it comes to the HIStory tour and post Quincy eras.

Maybe if they just had people reading the fan web sites, that would help somewhat. I've been on a few and read all sorts of commentary on this new OTW release.
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SheilaMJFan4Ever said:
:ermm: Have you read through the last couple of pages in this thread?! Some of the fans have slandered Spike Lee's name and made bigoted comments about black people (which is ironic as hell seeing that the artist they love and admire is BLACK). You trust them to speak for and/or represent Mike's huge multi-demographic fanbase? I don't!

Hold on while I put the tea down. I need something stronger to drink... :crackingup:

NeedastrongerdrinkKermit_zps6ca8091f.jpg
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ivy said:
It's not like fans agree about the releases though.

I mean look to the past releases. First people wanted new songs. Some wanted untouched songs aka demos the way MJ left them. When given such demos some found it underwhelming so they wanted both the demos and the finished versions. Some fans don't want the already leaked songs. Some people argued the songs MJ didn't release in his lifetime shouldn't be released - hence no new releases. It doesn't end there. While fans want live performances, they can't agree on which ones they prefer. Even in a documentary fans have different expectations about who should participate in such documentaries. As this thread showed us original concepts by MJ can also be mocked.

So this is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind a situation IMO. Estate or fans in charge of releases wouldn't make much of a difference though. I don't see any release to be widely accepted by the fans. Just look to the past releases.

I thought Bad 25 was conceptually really good. Original album, untouched demo, remixes, live audio, a concert, a documentary - widely criticized
then there was Xscape - which I thought was best of two worlds with original and new versions - widely criticized
now we have OTW just the original with original artwork concept - again criticized

So personally I don't think there is a magic formula to please all the fans. Fans will always find a thing to criticize.
Click to expand...

Let me put it a different way then...I should be in charge of all future releases.


;)
 
myosotis said:
I don't think anyone is mocking Michael's 1970s ideas for cover artwork.
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the now deleted "used condom" post on this thread is a mockery. Go and look to other forums, fb fan groups etc. you will see the same mockery. I see a difference between people who say "I don't like the chalk idea" and people that mock the idea.

I think most people feel that there would be more chance of this success if the marketing was focused around Michael the incomparable singer, songwriter and dancer, and not Michael the (maybe slightly less than incomparable) cover design artist.
Click to expand...

I don't think that the marketing was "focused" on cover design though. Original press release to the public had no reference to the cover design. Statement released to the fans only vaguely mentioned original cover concept with "you'll see it when you get it". Amazon product description mentioned the chalk. It's the fans that are focusing on the chalk.

OnirMJ said:
I think that was discussed to death for million times but I'll say it again. Bad 25 was conceptually excellent. But when it came out it was full of flaws: damaged VHS converted to poor quality DVD and released in 2012, Pitbull, documentary again having the same poor quality VHS snippets, people like Justin Bieber, Mariah Carey, Chris Brown, Cee-Lo & Kanye West talking while having nothing remotely interesting to say, the ending of the celebration documentary with people talking about MJ's death and where they were at the time??

I agree that the Xscape album was best of two worlds and the best release so far. But finishing songs by original producers (something they tried to do on MICHAEL with majority of real songs) instead of contemporization process would be perfect in my opinion.
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well this is actually proves my point. According to you documentary is okay but some people shouldn't be in it. Remixes are okay but some people shouldn't do remixes. New versions of songs are okay but some people shouldn't be producers and so on. Once again this just proves my point that every fan has an idea of a "perfect release" and will find something to criticize. There is no magic formula.

Tony R said:
Let me put it a different way then...I should be in charge of all future releases.
;)
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That's what every single fan wants however given none of the fans agree on these stuff it won't solve any problems.
 
Tony R said:
Let me put it a different way then...I should be in charge of all future releases.


;)
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haha-you must be a glutton for punishment. I envision the gladiator days where people volunteered to be fed to the lions.

@Bubs: Chalk-gate. That's hilarious. :)
 
This has been asked before but I'm just throwing it out there again 'Does anyone know if the album is the original 79 pressing remastered? This would interest me greatly and it would be quite a good selling point. I'm going to focus on the positives of this release. It is a great album and I'm looking forward to the documentary, I'm not over the moon about the chalk but I've said my opinion on that.

Postives: Documentary, Artwork and if it was the original album mix that would sell me.
 
Psychoniff said:
Really? That was just a joke aimed at the estate, not MJ.
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how can it be aimed to Estate when apparently the chalk, chalkboard was MJ's idea? Personally as it turns out it was MJ's idea I think you are mocking MJ - not criticizing the Estate.

note: I'm differentiating between the source of the idea and not liking, criticizing and mocking an idea.
 
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If my previous post was not clear enough: When staff post warnings on a thread and when we delete posts it's not because we want them to be continued.
 
Re: Good Morning America to show unseen Michael Jackson video

Interesting, I presume related to OTW?
 
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