"A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

[ivy]

to be brutally honest the more some of you say "we don't need to hear from the other side" or say that they don't need to interview the key players in this saga directly, the more you are showing your bias and expecting this book to be one sided expose of the fake songs. and that's fine but I wouldn't call such book "whole story" or "objective".

That means not only talking to the anti-Cascio side, but also the pro-Cascio side. It means, obviously, talking to Eddie, Porte and the Estate. And it means not disregarding every piece of information that doesn’t match up with the hoax theory.

Well from their statements see the below

"We aim to deliver an objective and fascinating piece of investigative journalism with revealing and exclusive interviews, never-before-told stories, and accounts from people on both sides of the controversy" Damien Shields

so they hope to talk to both sides. The issue is that the team is anti-Cascio songs to start with. So I don't know how realistic to expect the other side to talk to them.

Also comments here versus the team statements confuse me. If you read the discussion here you expect the book to be an expose that's calling the songs fake but then see this comment "The group’s mission is to make sure that the information surrounding one of music’s biggest controversies is properly documented so that folks can draw their own educated conclusions,” said James Alay. So will they present a book that says "here's what one side says, here's what other side says, now make up your mind". Well I thought everyone already made up their minds.

The Estate, Sony, and/or Cascio may very well participate through interviews via their legal representatives (as the Estate did with Sullivan) so we cannot rule that option out.

Well Sullivan example is not really good. After 16 months of refusing to answer any questions only answering one area and refused to answer the remaining three and few questions and giving a blanket statement. I don't think that resulted in any significant information. So in my mind there's no comparison between a willing participant and an unwilling one.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I did no pursue this discourse about the inciminated 3 songs since a long time because 100% Michael or not this album is made with so much love and so much respect and all the songs as a whole are pieces of Michael's life. For me it is really an "Michael"-Album and it is a honour to Michael. Only that is important. (imo)

How can something be made with "so much love and respect", when they're lying and scamming fans with three questionable songs?

 

[Chamife]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Good evening all

I support everything that sheds more light on the origin of the Cascio songs. For me they don't have to prove anything, although that would be the cherry on the pie. I believe Damien Shields & team will be objective, because this issue is too important for him/them to be not objective. All credibility will be gone if they aren't. They say they want to discover the truth, whatever the truth will be and that sounds good to me.

This project is called 'ATruthUntold', so I'm assuming there will be new (publicly untold) information?

I wish them wisdom and succes in achieving their (my) goal.

 

[Tygger]

Ivy, you continually suggest the potential book can only be objective if the Estate, Sony, and Cascio participate so it seems the concern is to hear their side as well.

I am saying if their legal representatives answer for them, it is participation. Sullivan is a fine example. As you may remember with Sullivan, those questions included the validity of executors’ position. To their credit, they did not avoid those questions; their legal representative answered them and Sullivan printed those answers in his book.

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

^^

well yeah, to call anything objective I do think it needs to have both sides. I consider that as common sense. It's not only related to this topic, it relates to anything and everything. Obviously also getting information directly from the actual source is better from getting information from/ through a third party. Again those seems to be common sense to me. and as I pointed out if their promise is to have the "whole story", by logic you would expect that to mean everyone/all sides to be included. so I don't see what's the issue here.

I disagree with that "sullivan was a fine example". To the contrary I think Sullivan is an example that unwilling participants and middleman involved does not provide satisfactory results or significant information. Sullivan wrote after 16 months of refusing to answer questions, they agreed to written submission ,sullivan sent 4 areas of questioning, and they only answered one area and did not answer his follow up questions. Sullivan wrote and I copy " Howard Weitzman had no real answers to offer, though, about the other three areas of question and controversy I submitted to him.". Sullivan also complains that at the same time Branca was refusing to answer his questions he was talking Forbes writer Greenburg. If you compare Greenburg article about the will you will see that he was shown 3 past wills. So unwilling to talk to Sullivan means Weitzman not answering his questions, Willing to talk to Greenburg means Branca personally showing him 3 old wills. You tell me which one is better? So if it's not clear: I'm saying there's a HUGE difference between someone saying "absolutely I'll answer any questions you might have" and a person who screens and sends selective answers through their lawyer.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

This is just the beginning ... that will get even hotter. :fear:

 

[Chamife]

To the entire 'ATruthUntold'-team, some encouraging words because it isn't an easy job:

"If someone ever tells you that you can't, all you have to do really is remove the T at the end because you CAN."

"I have confidence in my abilities. I have real perseverance. Nothing can stop me when I put my mind to it."

"I have always be kinda determined. I have always have a vision of things I have wanted to do and goals I have wanted to reach and nothing could stop me getting that. I am focused and I know what I want and what I want to achieve and I won´t get side-tracked. And even though I get down sometimes, I keep running the race of endurance to achieve those goals. It keeps me on track. I am dedicated."

"No matter what, the most powerful thing in the world is the human mind and prayer, and belief in your self and confidence and perseverance. No matter how many times you do it, you do it again until it's right. And always believe in your self. And not matter who's around you that's being negative or thrusting negative energy at you, totally block it off.

“No matter what, no star is too far to reach and you never give up."

~Michael Jackson


And get to that $ 40.000,=!! I'm expecting my creditcard to be charged on the 14th of December!!

 

[ChrisC]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I don't need this book to present both sides. I already know that isn't Michael Jackson singing.

I would just like some cold, hard evidence that somebody intentionally misled someone else over this. That there were discussions of money and contracts signed and silence bought. That there was planning and who stood to gain etc etc.

If the writers of this book promised me that, and as others have said, offered more transparency, then I'd give them my money. But at the moment it feels as if it's a glamour project.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I know the truth. So this book is not meant for me. It is meant for people who don't know about this tragedy. The purpose of this book is to spread the truth all around the world. People should know about the biggest fraud in music industry in history of music. That's why I decided to support this project.

I hope they succeed in their goal.

 

[WildStyle]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

yes why would anyone need to talk to the people who were actually there? Seriously?



how can you have the "facts" without talking to both sides? With hearsay, gossip and speculation?

How do you know they haven't interviewed people that were actually there? Do you know everyone that was actually there? My point is, it is possible to learn about a situation through investigation without talking to every single person involved. We don't know what they have uncovered through documents, interviews or whatever else. So why be so quick to judge the contents of the book and what will or will not be in there when we really have little to no idea? How can we say it will reveal nothing new? How can we say they don't have any facts? How can we say it won't change anything? Nobody can say that because nobody has read the book and nobody knows what is in it. I mean, it doesn't get much simpler than that. If you support the initiative, donate, if not, don't.

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

^^

Let me repost what I posted before and I'll make emphasis

First of all if people are wrong, the ATU team can tell us who they have already interviewed and so on. After all they are asking for financial support, they can get more support if they say "exclusive interviews with x,y,z" and so on. Why aren't they advertising this unknown information & sources for their advantage? They seem to love secrecy but at the time when they are asking for money they could provide more details to get more supporters. Currently they are trying to convince people that this is a worthwhile effort to financially support them. The more information, the more transparency would result in more support. If people have questions, concerns and if they are mistaken, why aren't they answering such questions and correcting such misconceptions?

and you actually pointed out my main issue

So why be so quick to judge the contents of the book and what will or will not be in there when we really have little to no idea?

exactly. we really have little to no idea about what will be in the book. so how can you blame people for having questions and why no answer or more information cannot be provided?

Note: Yes I could be a little more demanding when compared to some people but my suggestion of transparency and more information can only make it better for the ATU team as more info can convince more people to support their initiative. I have seen people after people who happen to be highly anti-Cascio songs but say the same thing.

 

[WildStyle]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I agree that more information from them would garner more support. I would think they are aware of this and have their reasons for what they do and don't decide to share. Maybe they will put out a bit more information, maybe they won't. At the end of the day I know these guys have put a lot of work in and are the only people in the fan community doing anything pro-active in regards to this situation. I have hope, and I have trust, so I decided to donate.

 

[Tygger]

Ivy, there is no issue except I suggested legal representatives may answer questions for this book to give the objective balance. You have shown in your post that Sullivan did attempt to have a conversation with resistant parties and their legal representative answered Sullivan’s questions instead of avoiding the situation altogether to their credit. It is not Sullivan’s fault these parties were resistant to him and not others. It will not be Shields' fault if the same scenario happens to him.

Again, no book that I am aware of has the transparency you feel this book must have especially in the compiling phase it is currently in. We do not know, at least I do not know, if interviews have been secured with any of these three parties. I believe they most likely will answer questions through their legal representatives. This may not be satisfactory to some, however, again, it is not Shields' fault.

 

[Kapital77]

I think it´s a matter of trust in someone... in this case, Damien Shields.

Damien Shields it´s a great fan, it´s sure he investigated so much about this issue. I really don´t know what he has recollected (it´s like a secret for him) but i don´t think he will share important info before the book will be released.

I will trust in him and hope he will resolve some parts of the puzzle. Maybe when you read it you will found that Frank didn´t tell you all the truth about those tracks.

Ivy, support them, support the proyect, i know you want the truth and finally close this endless debate.

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

@tygger : once in a while you can agree to disagree. I already explained myself, you writing the same thing 14,678 times is not going to change my opinion. Let's leave it at that and not turn this the annoying never ending circle.

Ivy, support them, support the proyect, i know you want the truth and finally close this endless debate.

I would if I thought if it would close the endless debate. I don't think that's the case. I don't think anyone can look to even to a book which proves the songs to be not legit and say "I can finally move on". Great debate thread showed me a lot more needed for people to move on and some probably never be able to move on. I also believe only the people who already believe the songs to be fake will buy the book as a confirmation of their opinion, I don't think it would have the mass public effect they hope it to have. If the time shows I'm wrong, I'll say so. Luckily they don't need my support, there are millions of MJ fans and it has been said the majority of the fans felt the same way in regards to Cascio songs. so funding should not be a problem. That makes all of my discussion here irrelevant as well. Who cares what I think? I'll get the book when it's released based on the reviews and as I said if I'm wrong, I'll admit that I was wrong.

 

[kreen]

I think it´s a matter of trust in someone... in this case, Damien Shields.

Well, that's the thing for me. I don't trust Damien Shields. He's already decided in his mind and in his heart that it's not MJ singing those songs. Would he have the intellectual courage to potentially anger his team mates, his supporters and his "celebrity" contacts by asking the tough questions, challenging every assumption, and seeing the available facts from all possible angles?

Basically, I would feel a lot better abourt financing this if he included as part of the core team -- meaning the ones who will decide what to do, what questions to ask, and everything -- a number of, for lack of a better term, pro-Cascio people. Like if Ivy, for instance, was among the people responsible for the project -- if I knew that she'll get to see every fact, assess every statement, and even write at least a "dissenting opinion", if need be, in the book -- then I'd be a lot more interested in Damien Shield's project.

I would trust Ivy to reach the conclusion that the songs are fake, in that's what the facts say. But I don't trust Damien Shields to conclude that the songs are real, even if that's what what he uncovers points to.

 

[Tygger]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

@tygger : once in a while you can agree to disagree. I already explained myself, you writing the same thing 14,678 times is not going to change my opinion. Let's leave it at that and not turn this the annoying never ending circle.

I could post every instance of your repeating that the book would requires interviews with certain parties to be objective but, I believe that would be rude. There is no reason for you to reply with rudeness to me.

Again, Shields will most likely get those interviews for his book providing the objectivity sought. He will most likely speak to their legal representatives and it will not be his fault if they refuse to answer his questions or prefer to speak to someone else about this situation.

 

[Willy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Like if Ivy, for instance, was among the people responsible for the project -- if I knew that she'll get to see every fact, assess every statement, and even write at least a "dissenting opinion", if need be, in the book -- then I'd be a lot more interested in Damien Shield's project.

Yeah, they should take Ivy, Korgnex and you on board then they would certainly got to the bottom of it. lol
Let's be serious here, they come from the doubters camp and as I assume represent the view that these songs are not performed by Michael Jackson and that is the main truth they should be seeking to show in this this book. Of course, they should try to contact the other parties, at least to be able to say that the other side refused to cooperate, because that's what probably is going to happen. Remember, Joe Vogel couldn't get them to talk.

I expect this book to present the evidence that won't leave much doubt as to the authenticity of these songs. Then it could make a significant contribution to the public disclosure of this fraud and ultimately achieve commercial success of the book. If it was to be otherwise, and this book was to be an extension of the Great debate thread and present balanced opinions of both sides with no concrete conclusions then the book would be redundant because it would explain nothing, nor would it bring closure to anyone, not to mention that, apart from a few committed fans, nobody would buy it.

 

[krikzil]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Most likely? $40k should come with more guarantees than that. No, not his fault if certain key players won't cooperate but shouldn't this group know beforehand whether the "other side" is even willing to participate before asking fans for so much money?

 

[Tygger]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Krikzil, it is most likely not Michael on those three songs yet fans spent multiples more than $40K to have that CD. Fans were also not made aware three song were not authentic before purchase.

 

[krikzil]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Krikzil, it is most likely not Michael on those three songs yet fans spent multiples more than $40K to have that CD. Fans were also not made aware three song were not authentic before purchase.

So then that would be a sufficient justification for this group to take advantage of fans as well?

The difference here though is that I'm not implying there's any malicious intent to defraud fans by this group. Your statement above doesn't give the same benefit of a doubt to Sony/Branca. It's just that good intentions don't guarantee the soundness of a plan. I'm sorry the Cascio songs have been such a terribly divisive issue in our fandom and would welcome a truly impartial investigation into the situation in the hopes it would put things to rest. Without more transparency, I don't see how this project can accomplish that.

 

[morinen]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I wish the fan coomunity could at least once put aside their idle criticism of other fans' initiatives. If you don't want to support something, fine, don't, but is it really necessary to speculate about taking advantage of other fans or state your opinion about what other fans should and should not do? Other fans can think for themselves, thank you very much. Like every charity project, like every "flowers" project, this is a personal decision of every one of us. It's kind of unethical to tell other people where they should or should not put their money.

 

[Tygger]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

The difference here though is that I'm not implying there's any malicious intent to defraud fans by this group. Your statement above doesn't give the same benefit of a doubt to Sony/Branca.

I did not imply any malicious intent of any party you mentioned.

I do not see this Kickstarter initiative as taking advantage of fans either. If these tracks are proven to not be authentic in the future, it means fans were already taken advantage of. What will fans do then?

 

[morinen]

Let me say here why I think this project is important even if it doesn’t contain comments from Sony, the Estate or Cascios.

It may be true that today such a book would be purchased mostly by hardcore fans who already have an opinion on the Cascio songs. It may be true that it won’t make a huge impact on the general public. But this book is not only for today. Because Michael’s legacy is not a matter of today, it will last for centuries.

There was a writer in my home country, named Michael Sholokhov, who wrote famous novel “And Quiet Flows the Don” in 1920s. A controversy ensued whether he was the real author, and the debate is still ongoing. Sholokhov is long gone, everyone who had anything to do with that work is long gone, but today, a century later, people are still debating.

I think we all would not wish something like this for MJ’s legacy, but unfortunately, from the way things look, there is a real possibility that the Cascio issue will never be officially resolved. There is a possibility that this controversy will last for decades.

Now let’s imagine what will remain 50 or 70 years later. All the live witnesses will be gone, their twitter and facebook pages will likely be gone, many of the media articles covering the issue will be gone, today’s fanboards will be gone. How will the next generation know what went down? How will they judge the situation with those songs? By word of mouth and from bits and pieces that miraculously survived somewhere on the internet? A book is something that will last and remain structured. A book is something that interested fans and researchers will always be able to find in a library or in a second-hand store.

If fans can’t get this situation resolved, in my opinion, the next best thing they can do is document the accounts of witnesses while they are still available first-hand, talk to as many of them as possible, have as detailed conversations as possible. Record as much of it as possible for the next generation to rely on. And from this perspective, I commend the ATU team for their civil approach to the issue and trying to reach out to both sides.

I support all factual books written about Michael’s life - even if they are one-sided - for the same reason. He is a historic persona of global significance, and many aspects of his personality are yet to be re-discovered and appreciated. Not many people may be interested in his biography or late art today, but it’s important to document it diligently for those who will come after them. Because the people who witnessed it all will not be around forever. The facts about Michael – in all aspects of his life and work – deserve to be on the record.

 

[kreen]

Let me say here why I think this project is important even if it doesn’t contain comments from Sony, the Estate or Cascios.

It may be true that today such a book would be purchased mostly by hardcore fans who already have an opinion on the Cascio songs. It may be true that it won’t make a huge impact on the general public. But this book is not only for today. Because Michael’s legacy is not a matter of today, it will last for centuries.

There was a writer in my home country, named Michael Sholokhov, who wrote famous novel “And Quiet Flows the Don” in 1920s. A controversy ensued whether he was the real author, and the debate is still ongoing. Sholokhov is long gone, everyone who had anything to do with that work is long gone, but today, a century later, people are still debating.

I think we all would not wish something like this for MJ’s legacy, but unfortunately, from the way things look, there is a real possibility that the Cascio issue will never be officially resolved. There is a possibility that this controversy will last for decades.

Now let’s imagine what will remain 50 or 70 years later. All the live witnesses will be gone, their twitter and facebook pages will likely be gone, many of the media articles covering the issue will be gone, today’s fanboards will be gone. How will the next generation know what went down? How will they judge the situation with those songs? By word of mouth and from bits and pieces that miraculously survived somewhere on the internet? A book is something that will last and remain structured. A book is something that interested fans and researchers will always be able to find in a library or in a second-hand store.

If fans can’t get this situation resolved, in my opinion, the next best thing they can do is document the accounts of witnesses while they are still available first-hand, talk to as many of them as possible, have as detailed conversations as possible. Record as much of it as possible for the next generation to rely on. And from this perspective, I commend the ATU team for their civil approach to the issue and trying to reach out to both sides.

I support all factual books written about Michael’s life - even if they are one-sided - for the same reason. He is a historic persona of global significance, and many aspects of his personality are yet to be re-discovered and appreciated. Not many people may be interested in his biography or late art today, but it’s important to document it diligently for those who will come after them. Because the people who witnessed it all will not be around forever. The facts about Michael – in all aspects of his life and work – deserve to be on the record.

I agree with everything you say, and if I do indeed support this project, it will be because there's a chance that, even though it is biased, some new information might still come out of it, even indirectly.

But I still don't know why all of this has to come out in a book and not on a Web site. And I don't know why there's any point in a self-published book : nothing screams "don't take this seriously" like a self-published book.

 

[MIST]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

it is most likely not Michael on those three songs yet fans spent multiples more than $40K to have that CD.

There are other songs on the album too where fans agree that it's Michael who sings.
Maybe there are fans who bought it just for the other songs.

 

[Pentum]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

There are other songs on the album too where fans agree that it's Michael who sings.
Maybe there are fans who bought it just for the other songs.

Well, then you still paid for the songs which gives the Cascios royaltees.

You could have bought them seperatly.

Anyway, I am disappointed with the pleding progress so far. Only 87 backers, yet there are million of MJ fans. We haven't reached 8k yet, still got 32k to go.

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I wish the fan coomunity could at least once put aside their idle criticism of other fans' initiatives. If you don't want to support something, fine, don't, but is it really necessary to speculate about taking advantage of other fans or state your opinion about what other fans should and should not do? Other fans can think for themselves, thank you very much. Like every charity project, like every "flowers" project, this is a personal decision of every one of us. It's kind of unethical to tell other people where they should or should not put their money.

you could be right but unfortunately it happens with every project. for example you would think that sending flowers to Michael to remember him would be something that everyone would consider to be not only appropriate but also nice thing to do. But however even that project received questions about integrity, credibility, requests of accounting and even some people campaigning against it saying the money can be better spent on other things such as charities.

What I'm trying to say is every project receives their fair share of criticism. Every project's survival is dependent on their supporters and how well they can answer and convince their critics. I don't get why this project is expected to be any different.

 

[ChrisC]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Well, then you still paid for the songs which gives the Cascios royaltees.

You could have bought them seperatly.

Well I certainly did. It's a decision I'm so glad to have made to this day.

 

[Pentum]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Well I certainly did. It's a decision I'm so glad to have made to this day.

Seperatly?