"A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

[kreen]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I like what I'm reading from Damien : he's certainly talking the right talk, in terms of saying he will be objective. He's also implying that he already has significant information.

Even if this turns out to be non-conclusive, or biased, it could still be the proverbial kick in the hornet's nest that leads to more information getting out.

I think I'll contribute, but I'll be all over these boards if it turns out Damien talked through his hat, or if he only pretended he'd be objective at all.

 

[Tygger]

If you have a question that is not answered here please feel free to send it to us and we’ll do our best to address it in due course.

I think the team has been very open thus far particularly about their constraints. I think they were very forthcoming on the below.

Q. Why not reveal who you have interviewed, and the topics you have investigated? Why the secrecy about the project?

A. We know it may be frustrating for eager fans, but we must abide by journalistic due diligence. At this stage of our investigation we have an obligation to protect the confidentiality of our sources and the information they have provided to us thus far. We are also in the process of conducting further interviews which may influence the way particular events are presented. Remember, the investigation and the manuscript are not complete at this point. We need to fact-check the information provided to us and, where possible, present that information based on several corroborating recollections. In the case of conflicting versions of events from different sources we will articulate both accounts and allow the reader to draw their own conclusions. This takes time and until we can corroborate as much of our research as possible we are not in a position to disclose it. We do not want to misrepresent the facts.

Q. Do you think Cascio, The Estate, Sony etc. will even respond to you given that you are openly against these songs?

A. A Truth Untold is not openly for or against these songs. A Truth Untold is openly questioning these songs. We acknowledge that we all have opinions on this issue, many of which have been strongly voiced in the past, but we must set those opinions aside and allow the facts to dictate the narrative of this project. We hope all parties are open to contributing any relevant information they may be able to provide towards our research as we pursue our quest for the truth.

Q. Why not a lawsuit?

A. Even though we are not attorneys, we’d imagine anyone who purchased the album is capable of filing a lawsuit if they see fit. A Truth Untold is a research project to be written and published as a book. The information published in our book will be the most thorough and accurate account publicly available regarding this issue. Once published, anyone can use the information presented in our book however they see fit. In theory, we suppose that could include someone out there filing a lawsuit. But to be clear, that’s not what A Truth Untold is about at this time or in the foreseeable future. A Truth Untold is about discovering and documenting the facts.

I truly hope they will get the funding they are requesting.

 

[ivy]

We recently received the below collection of questions and felt that they were all very valid questions

I wonder who came up with those questions? oh wait it was us

While I really really appreciate the time they took and answered the questions unfortunately not all of the answers satisfied me and left me with some more questions. Perhaps I'm being hard but I'll go over them briefly.

We believe our approach with the A Truth Untold campaign speaks for itself in terms of objectivity.

I tend to disagree with this. It's really hard to overcome strong biases and this is true of every one of us. Also personally I did not feel like their approach spoke of objectivity. Every single video , interview we saw hinted the songs being fakes and even their name "truth untold" hints that there's a lie. (if the songs are legit and the statements said so then the truth was told.)A story untold for example would mean that there's more than meets the eye however a truth untold means that there's a lie. It's also not helping that the people that associated with this project and the fans who are promoting this project are highly anti-cascio songs. It's definitely not a balanced group.

We are here to uncover ALL the facts possible so that the audience can draw their own conclusions.

This personally makes me very happy and more positive about this project but on the other hand I'm not sure if this would be something that would satisfy their biggest supporters - who believe the songs to be fakes. I don't know but I feel like if I strongly believed the songs to be fakes I would expect a book that's announcing to the masses that the songs are fake. I'm not sure a book which is "here make up your mind" would satisfy that groups expectations. Anyhow it's not an issue now but when the book is released there could be some unhappy donators.

We sincerely hope that all parties will participate in our quest for the truth and contribute whatever information they have.

Well we all hope that but to me it's just unlikely and that's based on first hand experience. Soon after the songs were released based on our request they released a statement however after that any more requests were left unanswered. I feel like this is something those parties have moved on and have no plans to address. So hope is good but reality makes me think Estate/Sony/ Cascio participation is highly unlikely. (and I offered Q&A's to both Branca and Eddie Cascio and I know their approach) I can be proven wrong by time. Still I would have preferred a commitment to be achieved before starting this project.

Our work will not be considered complete until we feel all parties on all sides have had sufficient opportunity to tell their story.

here and later on they acknowledge that if Estate/Sony/ Cascio parties do not participate they won't be able to deliver their "whole story" promise. So they are realizing the possible problem there. So again it would have been better to get these parties to commit to interviews without promising "whole story" to the backers.

Absolutely. Part of the problem right now is that fans continue to go around in circles with theories and speculation. There’s a lot of bickering and negativity and this is largely attributed to the fact that there is not enough factual information on the subject available. We are here to break through that bickering with something solid and tangible. And the information that is available has never been assembled and articulated in a way that paints a complete overall picture with testimony from those who were there.

I still don't think this would bring closure to be honest. First of all I think everyone have already made up their minds. So I'm thinking due to everyone's strong opinions it's unlikely a lot of people would change their opinions. Secondly I don't think a book which is "here's objective facts make up your minds" is going to stop those theories or speculation. Everyone will make their minds and there will be two differentiating opinions in the end. It's impossible that everyone would come to the same conclusion when they read the book. So I don't see how that stops the speculation. And finally once again for the people who strongly feels the songs are fakes I feel like they need more to feel closure. I have seen such comments from those fans.

At this stage of our investigation we have an obligation to protect the confidentiality of our sources and the information they have provided to us thus far.

Information I agree and that's the reason I never personally asked for any information about what they discovered but not naming the people they interviewed.. well they are shooting themselves at the foot IMO. and honestly this is the "weird secrecy" I'm talking about. Not really forthcoming for my taste.

A Truth Untold is not openly for or against these songs.

Just a note, you really cannot separate the members from the project.

Once published, anyone can use the information presented in our book however they see fit. In theory, we suppose that could include someone out there filing a lawsuit.

a little bit unrealistic. if they need $40 K to investigate it's obvious that no one is going to face the costs of a lawsuit alone.

But to be clear, that’s not what A Truth Untold is about at this time or in the foreseeable future.

so it's just a book and that's it. that means the expectations of "to get the ball rolling" probably isn't going to happen either.

 

[kreen]

Ivy, I share much of your hesitation, but this is the way I look at this :

Nobody else right now is even trying to put anything together to find some more information about the Cascio songs. So it's not like we have a choice between Damien and other people : it's either him or nothing.

I expect this book to be similar to any other "non-fiction book" you'll find on any other subject : the authors always proclaim they're being objective and are only "letting people come to their own conclusions", but it's almost always rhetoric : they set out to write a book about a given opinion, and arrange everything -- even the contradictory evidence they choose to include – so as to bring people to the conclusion they set out to prove.

But even in those books, there are kernels of truth. Some quotes can indeed be revelatory. And sometimes what is NOT in the book – when you know the author would have put it in if he could have – is indicative of a certain truth.

So even if that book reaches, say, 10 % of its potential, even if it unearths just a few more facts, I think it is worth a try to finance it.

With people like you and me – and Korgnex, and others – on board, we’d get to join the discussion as the book is being prepared, and we could provide a challenge function. The challenge function won’t be coming from Damien and his friends, and it won’t be coming from MOST of the donators, but if a few of us « not-anti-Cascio » people join up, we can hold them to account if the whole thing turns out to be an anti-Cascio, opiniated rant. Because then we could say, "hey, we helped you finance this. You said you'd be objective, but weren't".

 

[ivy]

it's either him or nothing.

at the end of the day everyone is going to make their own decisions. Yes I do appreciate ATU team for trying to do something. They are definitely a lot more productive than the never ending circular discussion repeating the same stuff. But on the other hand it doesn't mean that something necessarily needs to be done. Status quo and moving on is also valid options. But like I said , it is each person's decision.

With people like you and me – and Korgnex, and others – on board, we’d get to join the discussion as the book is being prepared, and we could provide a challenge function. The challenge function won’t be coming from Damien and his friends, and it won’t be coming from MOST of the donators, but if a few of us « not-anti-Cascio » people join up, we can hold them to account if the whole thing turns out to be an anti-Cascio, opiniated rant. Because then we could say, "hey, we helped you finance this. You said you'd be objective, but weren't".

To be brutally honest, given my experience with this group of extremely anti-cascio songs people (and their friend circles) challenging function is not something I'm willing to do. People cursed at me just because I wasn't in their anti-Cascio group. One of founding members of ATU called me an Estate plant and their friend & main supporter circles even resorted to personal attacks in the hopes of they can extort me to leave fan community. The only reason I had participated in the Cascio songs discussion was because it had so many opinions, theories, it was interesting and challenging discussion but if I knew people would forget human decency and turn into conspirators and resort to insults I would have stayed away from it.

I wish in this topic there was a respectful discussion in where everyone just focused on the opinions of each other and not turn it personal but unfortunately that's not case. Perhaps it's that experience that makes me prefer letting the sleeping dogs lie and not wander into this messy topic again.

Anyway..To Each its own.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

This has been a mixed bag for me from the start, but I'm beginning to lean towards supporter.

Let me explain.

Damien is a phenomenal guy. Damien is essentially a secondary Joe Vogel -- that is, he has the resources and talent to provide interesting, informative articles on Michael Jackson music. (In Vogel's case, no one here can deny that his Hollywood Tonight + Don't Be Messin' Around articles weren't informative, even if Man in the Music was essentially fan discussion compiled into a 200+ page book.)

When I first read of this campaign, I was just as skeptical as the rest of you. What could they really uncover? They didn't have any personal interviews with the estate or Eddie or James, so essentially everything they could possibly reveal is purely based on hearsay, right?

Wrong. While they DON'T have access to perhaps the most essential sources, they have access to a number of phenomenal ones. Let's not forget that a number of people Damien has spoken to were there during the production of Michael, and could have heard something, seen something, learned something. Especially Teddy Riley, who has already made his final stance in recent months.

And hey, even if this book doesn't completely resolve the Cascio fiasco, it's a book on Michael's last few years in the recording studio, complete with first-hand accounts of people who were there for it. And that in itself is good enough for me.

I have yet to donate as I'm not at my best financially, but I'm hoping to contribute some money by the end of the campaign. Best of luck to everyone involved.

 

[Alec]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

This has been a mixed bag for me from the start, but I'm beginning to lean towards supporter.

Let me explain.

Damien and Alec are both phenomenal guys. Damien is essentially a secondary Joe Vogel -- that is, he has the resources and talent to provide interesting, informative articles on Michael Jackson music. (In Vogel's case, no one here can deny that his Hollywood Tonight + Don't Be Messin' Around articles weren't informative, even if Man in the Music was essentially fan discussion compiled into a 200+ page book.) While I haven't spoken to Damien personally, I HAVE spoken to Alec, and he is a very generous man who knows what he's doing.

When I first read of this campaign, I was just as skeptical as the rest of you. What could they really uncover? They didn't have any personal interviews with the estate or Eddie or James, so essentially everything they could possibly reveal is purely based on hearsay, right?

Wrong. While they DON'T have access to perhaps the most essential sources, they have access to a number of phenomenal ones. Let's not forget that a number of people Damien has spoken to were there during the production of Michael, and could have heard something, seen something, learned something. Especially Teddy Riley, who has already made his final stance in recent months.

And hey, even if this book doesn't completely resolve the Cascio fiasco, it's a book on Michael's last few years in the recording studio, complete with first-hand accounts of people who were there for it. And that in itself is good enough for me.

I have yet to donate as I'm not at my best financially, but I'm hoping to contribute some money by the end of the campaign. Best of luck to everyone involved.

Hi I think you've mistaken me for somebody else. I certainly am not involved in A Truth Untold! But thank you for the compliment!

All good points otherwise!

 

[WildStyle]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Donations have come to a grinding halt. I'm not so sure they're going to make it.

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

^^

normally for any donation campaign you would see a quick heavy support at the beginning and last minute heavy support. It's normal for it to slow down in the middle. However if it totally stopped (as you said halt) it might be problematic.

 

[Alec]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Donations have come to a grinding halt. I'm not so sure they're going to make it.

Well 40k is a very ambitious goal. But I sure hope they make it. It matters to me because there is no one interested in standing up for Michael but this group of people. Not his colleagues, not his estate, not his family... No one did anything substantial to resolve this terrible mess. That's why I try to support this project in any way I can, like mentioning it in conversations with friends or fans, or by donating. I believe every effort counts and can help make this come to fruition.

We didn't ask for it, but we're all in this together as Michael Jackson fans. And I think we owe it to him to resolve this issue.

 

[Arklove]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Well 40k is a very ambitious goal. But I sure hope they make it. It matters to me because there is no one interested in standing up for Michael but this group of people. Not his colleagues, not his estate, not his family... No one did anything substantial to resolve this terrible mess. That's why I try to support this project in any way I can, like mentioning it in conversations with friends or fans, or by donating. I believe every effort counts and can help make this come to fruition.

We didn't ask for it, but we're all in this together as Michael Jackson fans. And I think we owe it to him to resolve this issue.

This. And this is exactly why I just donated

 

[Tygger]

Always There, Alec, completely agree with both of you. Only one slight disagreement: the family was against those tracks.

Wild Style, I truly hope they get the funding they are requesting. Fans are unique and each fan supports Michael legacy in a manner most befitting to them. I hope more will financially support this initiative however, the depth of this matter is not truly understood and the repercussions from a possible fraud being uncovered are far wider than simply removing the songs from Michael’s catalog.

 

[kreen]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

It just hit me that this campaign -- if it doesn't succeed -- will have the unintended consequence of making it impossible from now on for the "anti-Cascio songs" people to claim that it is an absolute certainty that the tracks are fake. Damien's whole campaign is predicated both on the fact that more needs to be done in order to come to a conclusion, and also -- if he is to be believed -- on the idea that he's not yet taking sides since there are facts both for and against.

Next time somebody tells me the songs are fake as if it's a proven historical fact, I can tell them,"then why did Damien need to prove it?"

 

[WildStyle]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

That is without a doubt some of the strangest logic i've ever read. Congrats sir.

 

[kreen]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

That is without a doubt some of the strangest logic i've ever read.

Is it? Or did I just blow your mind?

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Is it? Or did I just blow your mind?

LOL. perhaps it was just confusing what you wrote? for a minute I had to re-read what you wrote but then it's late here and I'm sleepy.

Kreen is referencing the great debate thread in which some people comment like it's a fact that these songs are fakes. And he's asking if it's an established "fact" why more objective examination into is needed for people to come to their own conclusions as ATU says. He's saying if such examination is needed to come to conclusions then no one can argue that it's a "fact" these songs are fake.

 

[WildStyle]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Investigation is needed because very little is known about how this situation happened in the first place. That is what the book is about. Uncovering facts that we've never heard and piecing the events together. Everybody obviously has their own opinions on whether the songs are fake or not.

For me personally, it's not "Gee, I can't tell if this is Michael or not. I need more information." It's "These songs are obviously fake, now how the hell was this allowed to happen?."

 

[kreen]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Investigation is needed because very little is known about how this situation happened in the first place. That is what the book is about. Uncovering facts that we've never heard and piecing the events together. Everybody obviously has their own opinions on whether the songs are fake or not.

For me personally, it's not "Gee, I can't tell if this is Michael or not. I need more information." It's "These songs are obviously fake, now how the hell was this allowed to happen?."

Except that this is not what ATU is promising, and that's certainly not how they're promoting their initiative.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Over at Maximum Jackson, PG13 made a good point.

Assuming this project doesn't make it to $40,000 by the end of its campaign, there are various Print on Demand services that will charge only a few hundred for publishing -- this, for example, is how Chris Cadman publishes his works. Even if we don't reach the goal (which, in all truth is a very modest goal but almost impossible to reach within two or three weeks from now), this book can still come out.

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

For me personally, it's not "Gee, I can't tell if this is Michael or not. I need more information." It's "These songs are obviously fake, now how the hell was this allowed to happen?."

Except that this is not what ATU is promising, and that's certainly not how they're promoting their initiative.

this is the confusion I was talking about.

Today I read a convo between one of the ATU founders and a fan who is anti-cascio songs. The fan called them sell-outs for their objective approach, said they needed to be objective 3 years ago and their strong anti opinions cannot be forgotten, added the videos, tweets etc give the anti vibe but the mention of objectivity seems to be a ploy to attract a wider number of people.

I'm not saying if this fan is right or wrong but what they said was definitely interesting.

So I guess there are multiple takes on their approach - which again signaling confusion

there are people that questions whether or not they could be truly objective
there are people who don't pay attention to the objectivity or "we are going to provide information and everyone will make up their minds" claims which portrays the books as middle of the road approach and expect the book to be heavily anti-Cascio songs (probably due to previous opinions of the members of ATU)
and there are others who do want the book to be explicitly and directly anti-Cascio songs and they don't care for objectivity or other side.

Over at Maximum Jackson, PG13 made a good point.

Assuming this project doesn't make it to $40,000 by the end of its campaign, there are various Print on Demand services that will charge only a few hundred for publishing -- this, for example, is how Chris Cadman publishes his works. Even if we don't reach the goal (which, in all truth is a very modest goal but almost impossible to reach within two or three weeks from now), this book can still come out.

he has a point but given how kickstarter works it would be an issue. In kickstarter if you don't reach your goal ($40,000) you don't get anything. so if they don't reach it, they would need to start another campaign to collect money again.

The better way to do it would be to start a campaign with the absolute minimum cost.

For example
alternative 1: calculating the costs for a free pdf release : assuming forensic testing and legal fees are the minimum required and ATU members in USA does the interviews rather than Damien travelling internationally.
alternative 2: calculating the cost for an e-book release
alternative 3: calculating the cost for an print on demand release
alternative 4: calculating the cost for softcover, hardcover etc release

for example hypothetically if alternative 1 required $20,000, Alt 2 required $25,000, Alt 3 required $30,000 and Alt 4 required $40,000, they could have started a kickstarter campaign with the $20,000 goal and in the explanation they could have added the more money they collect over the minimum goal would mean a better and high quality version of the book.

(note: kick starter allows you to collect over your goal but as I said you can't get anything below your goal)

so as I said if they can't make their goal they would need to start another campaign with a lower goal. I'm not sure if what they want to do and it's impossible to tell how the supporters will think about it.

 

[kreen]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I gotta say it's pretty pathetic that Michael Jackson fans -- of whom there are millions -- can't raise 40,000 $ between them. And 130 contributors is pathetic too.

 

[Bubs]

I gotta say it's pretty pathetic that Michael Jackson fans -- of whom there are millions -- can't raise 40,000 $ between them. And 130 contributors is pathetic too.

I'm sorry but I find your post a bit insulting.

There is a collection for Starlight Children’s Foundation, and so far they have got 16 supporters and so far have received $330 toward their $2000 goal.
Patrick Treacy, with help of MJ fans built Everland (can cater up to 30 babies or toddlers) with $20,500 USD, which is a lot less than what is needed for this book, and this project already have received more than what went to built whole earthquake proof house for kids in Haiti.

At least this collection has 130 supporters, which I(own my own behalf) can honestly say is well and truly tragic.
Not everybody's priorities lies on what this book may or may not reveal.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I gotta say it's pretty pathetic that Michael Jackson fans -- of whom there are millions -- can't raise 40,000 $ between them. And 130 contributors is pathetic too.

Well let's keep in mind that millions of Michael Jackson fans don't have accounts on MJJC, Maximum Jackson or any other fan forum. Heck, I'm sure a good percentage of them aren't even aware of this project. Not to mention that there are many reasons why a fan wouldn't want to donate -- financial issues, the principle of the project, etc.

I'm a supporter of the project, but as I've stated before, I'm having some financial troubles so I can't donate at this time, but I'm hoping to throw in something before the end of the fundraiser.

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

the $40,000 is a lot more than what other projects ever collected - one rose and everland both of which was around $20,000. However I think what Kreen is trying to say that it was always argued that the majority of the fans cared deeply about Cascio songs, so if that's the case you would have assumed that fundraising to be easy. The results shows some possibilities ranging from MJ fans not being big on donations regardless of what the reason might be or not as many MJ fans caring about Cascio songs anymore or not enough people believing in this proposed book and so on.

 

[serendipity]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I think from the fans who know about it, the majority likely doesn't care for this project. JMO

 

[WildStyle]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I often wonder just how many MJ fans are hardcore fans of his music. As in they own everything from Steeltown up until the end, study it back to front and care and are greatly interested about the back-stories of songs and the creation process.

 

[kreen]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I often wonder just how many MJ fans are hardcore fans of his music. As in they own everything from Steeltown up until the end, study it back to front and care and are greatly interested about the back-stories of songs and the creation process.

When I compare MJ's fan base with that of other classic artists, from Elvis and Sinatra to Prince and the Beatles, I always notice two things.

One is that all of the people who were fans of his whe he was coming out with the great Jacksons albums like Destiny and Triumph or even Off the Wall and Thriller seem to have evaporated. I'm talking about people who would be in their 40's or 50's now. Basically people MJ's own age. If you go on a Beatles' discussion board, you have a bunch of younger fans who recently discovered their music, but you also have all of those old-timers who were around when they went on Ed Sullivan's show. With MJ, you seem to only have the new generation of fans. All of the old fans seem to have forgotten him, or see his music only as a fun, silly nostalgia thing, not a canon of work worth exploring.

The second thing, which is linked to the first, is that a lot of his fan base is made up of people who love his music, but also love and defend the man, or at least his public persona that they've chosen to believe in.If you go on any other music-related forum, fans routinely criticize or make fun of aspects of the artist's life and career. They'll study the music and every detail of the artist's career, but they don't see their interest as a sort of vocation or crusade to defend a victimized person.

I think that these two aspects might explain this initiative's failure, but also the fact that nothing serious has been done in 3 years. We're talking about a fan base that skews younger, and that has less money and expertise to invest in a serious challenge. And their hyper-emotional devotion to the artist hampers their credibility, and makes them less likely to have an almost scholarly, "historian" view of his career, which is a big motivation for getting to the bottom of the Cascio controversy -- for me at least.

 

[ChrisC]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

When I compare MJ's fan base with that of other classic artists, from Elvis and Sinatra to Prince and the Beatles, I always notice two things.

One is that all of the people who were fans of his whe he was coming out with the great Jacksons albums like Destiny and Triumph or even Off the Wall and Thriller seem to have evaporated. I'm talking about people who would be in their 40's or 50's now. Basically people MJ's own age. If you go on a Beatles' discussion board, you have a bunch of younger fans who recently discovered their music, but you also have all of those old-timers who were around when they went on Ed Sullivan's show. With MJ, you seem to only have the new generation of fans. All of the old fans seem to have forgotten him, or see his music only as a fun, silly nostalgia thing, not a canon of work worth exploring.

The second thing, which is linked to the first, is that a lot of his fan base is made up of people who love his music, but also love and defend the man, or at least his public persona that they've chosen to believe in.If you go on any other music-related forum, fans routinely criticize or make fun of aspects of the artist's life and career. They'll study the music and every detail of the artist's career, but they don't see their interest as a sort of vocation or crusade to defend a victimized person.

I think that these two aspects might explain this initiative's failure, but also the fact that nothing serious has been done in 3 years. We're talking about a fan base that skews younger, and that has less money and expertise to invest in a serious challenge. And their hyper-emotional devotion to the artist hampers their credibility, and makes them less likely to have an almost scholarly, "historian" view of his career, which is a big motivation for getting to the bottom of the Cascio controversy -- for me at least.

Great post, really. Usually I just 'thank' but I had to quote too on this occasion.

One thing I will say though is the Michael Jackson situation is so unique it's hard to compare with other artists. The change of skin colour, the constant changes in appearance, the courting the press, the press and public backlash, the sex allegations - just to briefly summarise. I too am fervent in my defence of Michael because the flipside is so vicious and/or entirely skewed and misinformed. It's just too big an injustice to ignore for me.

Additionally, a lot of those other artists you mentioned will get a great deal of respect in the media and outside, taken seriously, at times their achievements 'magnified'. When it comes to MJ it always seems it's a bit of a novelty, a bit of a joke, and all of his 'weaknesses' magnified.

I've always been quite vocal in my criticisms of MJ - even just about a month ago, a poster on this board replied to my post and said 'wow, you seem to hate everything'. I've been active on MJ forums for the best part of 15 years and I've had this from other fans throughout. So there's certainly a portion of fans who will absolutely not have a single bad word said about him. But when it comes to the general public and media, and I see the tide of nasty, nasty stuff, I feel like someone should stand up for him.

 

[krikzil]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

Another alternative? The initiative wiil have failed on its own merits, if it does ultimately go unfunded.

An old fan.

 

[ivy]

Re: "A Truth Untold" GOES LIVE. Book publication aimed to present the truth about the Cascio songs.

I often wonder just how many MJ fans are hardcore fans of his music. As in they own everything from Steeltown up until the end, study it back to front and care and are greatly interested about the back-stories of songs and the creation process.

I would imagine only all of the fans are the hardcore fans of MJ's music (otherwise they wouldn't be fans) but only a subset of the whole fans would be greatly interested in the specifics of the back stories and the creation process. I'll imagine Joe Vogel could give a good idea about the size of that specific fan group as he has been the author to serve that market with all of his books.

If you are talking about ATU being about the back stories and creating process that's another confusion point for me. They make you wonder if this proposed book would focus on the Cascio songs or if this book would be the last 3 years of MJ's musical life with Cascio songs being a small part. I believe it was PG on Maxjax that said he would have separated it to two books and I agree.