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Apparently Janet Is Not Invincible Either

i think the word innocent is hindering what you're trying to say. she wasn't 'innocent' nor pretended to be lol

this is also going from your initial point in the other thread, where you downlplayed her early sexual content:

Remyisme said:
with Michael this stuff, have been his logo, he done it from the start and forever.
With Janet, she was not doing this at first, she basically became over sexualized with the 2000ds, she had other stuff to talk about before.
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and i still proclaim that all her albums since after TVR and until Discipline have been naff but not because of 'oversexualisation' - just didn't deliver.

i fail to see your implications (and especially the mj comparisons) since they were both doing their stuff a long time ago and both milked it around a certain period in later years.
 
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Her image in the Janet album era was miles different to Rhythm Nation. It was a very different side to Janet that hadnt been seen before. Sexy, confident, very much came into her womanhood at this stage which was a real eyeopener to her fans. Which was good, it was different and was accompanied with some really good tracks and made her extremely successful.The thing is that now shes still stuck in that era in my opinion and I'd like to see her move on.You can still exude confidence in your own image and sexuality without getting your cleavage out at every opportunity.
 
Well the last albums of Janet are crap, and she doesn't do anything different compared to what younger artists offer, that is.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Yeah, the only difference between Janet and Michael's situation is that Sony actually didn't promote "Invincible" and it still sold 10 million copies.
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What Invincible did is no small feat considering it received no promo from Sony, but that was also during a different time in the industry. The industry is radically different now, sales are NOT what they were (even for such a relatively short time back as 2001). For instance, Lil Wayne's new cd is the first cd of this year to approach 1 million in sales in it's first week, before that however...the highest first week for a new cd was under 500K. Do you realize how low that is?

A big name artist's cd not receiving proper promotion in 2001 is not same for a big name artist's cd not receiving proper promotion in 2008.

Datsymay said:
What you say would be ok if Janet was financing her songs and selling them. Unfortunately she isn't finacing them herself. The record company is spending money to distribute and advertise her songs. They want their money back and they want to make a profit. It is called business. Janets fans are dropping like flies. It is obvious because she hasn't sold much in US and she has sold very little overseas. If she doesn't sing what the public wants then fans, what's left of them, should put their money where their mouth is and buy a bucket load of theose songs cause the general public don't seem to be buying it.
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I don't think its a case of Janet not doing what the public wants from her. In fact I would say no Janet Jackson material has had a fair/level playing field since 2001 and "All For You."

After that time the Super Bowl happened, and industry politics caused anything with with the name and likeness of Janet Jackson to not be played on any major radio or tv outlet. Now, with the Disicipline cd, radio has been somewhat supportive (well pop radio, urban radio has always been fairly supportive of both Michael and Janet), and she has MTV willing to work with her again, but the damage has been done to her career. Meaning the label has to work even harder to get her music and videos out there, and they aren't.

They (the record label) knew what deal was with Janet. The lack of support, and the other hurdles that may go with keeping a Janet Jackson project afloat, and they stated at the beginning they were going to be with the project (on a INTERNATIONAL level) for the long haul....they weren't and they aren't. :no:
 
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Well I don't think it is true, part of her several flops depend on the fact she doesn't offer anything different to what every younger artis does... the music is always the same, the topics the same, the coreograpies the same, it is important to be different and unique in such a difficult market (come on the last albums and videos could be done by everyone like spears or simpon). She should change and propose something different and definetly something that will support her better. The label has support her and her album untill it was evident her sales were poor and that there was nothing to do to make the album more succefull.
 
Anyway said:
The label has support her and her album untill it was evident her sales were poor and that there was nothing to do to make the album more succefull.
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That's not true at all...

Did you see what Janet said in the first post of this thread? She and the label haven't seen eye to eye since the "Feedback" single. Meaning, sometime during Feedback's run on the charts, she and the label weren't agreeing on what the second single should be (and various other aspects of promotions, etc for this project).

That single ended up being "Rock With U (A song, by the way, that is very different from anything Janet has released in YEARS)." A track it is rumored Janet was against to being the second single.... However, she followed the label wishes, did the video, and promoted the track in various interviews and performances. It didn't work, so the label stops any attempt what so ever to further promote the cd.... How is that sticking with this CD until it's evident there is nothing more they could do to make it successful?

The label isn't even supporting Janet with this new tour (I said support, NOT backing/financing the tour. I know, for the most part, labels don't do that). If they choose to promote a new single and video on the back of this tour that alone could potentially bring in a substantial amount of sales...
 
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The label support Janet untill Rock with you. The cd didn't sell well since the second or third week since it was released and when the first single was still on radios an the video on Mtv... then they tried with a second single, and Janet did the video and she did it also if she preferred an other song, but it and the various tv shows and interviews didn't help the album to sell...so then the label droped her, not before, after the released of the second single and after shows, perfomances and interviews, and that is what everyone else would have done if the sells were so poor.
To me Janet is too avarege today, she doesn't do anything special or different compared to the mass out there and it is so evinde and obvious, and if Janet's fans care about her they will suggest the same: find your own unique way, not crap music and videos.
 
Anyway said:
The label support Janet untill Rock with you. The cd didn't sell well since the second or third week since it was released and when the first single was still on radios an the video on Mtv... then they tried with a second single, and Janet did the video and she did it also if she preferred an other song, but it and the various tv shows and interviews didn't help the album to sell...so then the label droped her, not before, after the released of the second single and after shows, perfomances and interviews, and that is what everyone else would have done if the sells were so poor.
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That was my point...that they stopped promotion after the second single. That's not doing all you can for a project. You said they did all they could for the project before they pulled promotion. Pulling promotion after the second single, after stating they would be with the project for the long haul (presumably more than two singles), hardly doing any promo internationally, is not doing all you can for a project...again, what you said.

Especially, like I stated before, when you know the artist is going on tour, which could potentially bring in more sales if they were to promote the cd with the tour...something they aren't going to do...again, not doing all you can for a project.
 
Yes but actually that as everything they could do before lose money on that project. They supported the project untill they could, there was nothing then to support, people didn't like the cd at all. The album failed when the promotion was at its best.
They couldn't risk more money on such a project. Now Janet has to tour on herself because they decided not to put money into the project anymore cause is risky for them, so now is Janet who needs to tour for her money. Very simple, it happens all the time to artis. Janet failed, not because of poor pubblicity, that is my opinion.
 
Anyway said:
Yes but actually that as everything they could do before lose money on that project. They supported the project untill they could, there was nothing then to support, people didn't like the cd at all. The album failed when the promotion was at its best.
They couldn't risk more money on such a project. Now Janet has to tour on herself because they decided not to put money into the project anymore cause is risky for them, so now is Janet who needs to tour for her money. Very simple, it happens all the time to artis. Janet failed, not because of poor pubblicity, that is my opinion.
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I agree. Janet did loads of photoshoots and lots of interviews. I think some of the photoshoots might have done her some damage. I didn't like her bondaged look at all. I recon some people may have been put off by them too. At the end of the day, the business people need to get their money back and make a profit as well, otherwise they will not throw good money after bad. It is just busness, nothing personal.
 
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Anyway said:
Yes but actually that as everything they could do before lose money on that project. They supported the project untill they could, there was nothing then to support, people didn't like the cd at all. The album failed when the promotion was at its best.
They couldn't risk more money on such a project. Now Janet has to tour on herself because they decided not to put money into the project anymore cause is risky for them, so now is Janet who needs to tour for her money. Very simple, it happens all the time to artis. Janet failed, not because of poor pubblicity, that is my opinion.
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Janet is touring because she hasn't toured in over 7 years. In fact she postponed the last tour because the label asked her to record the cd that would become Discipline.

There was no promotion internationally for this project Janet spoke of that herself....How is that the label doing all they can to support the project?

Island Def Jam released two tracks to radio after the "Feedback" single... "Rock With U" to pop stations, and "Luv" to Urban stations. Rock With U failed to chart, but "Luv" (the single it is rumored Janet wanted to be sole second single, not RWU) found an audience on Urban stations. In fact it reached #34 on airplay alone, with no video or even a slight push from the label. Why didn't the label push "Luv" as a single or order a video for it (considering it was released as a single to radio at the same time and was doing better than Rock With U)? Again, does this sounds like the action of a label doing all it can to promote a project?
 
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whatever people here think, her tour is selling well so don't hate. don't compare her to michael. and stop complaining about her being overly sexual b/c if that were the issue, no album after 'janet' would've sold.
 
Datsymay said:
I agree. Janet did loads of photoshoots and lots of interviews. I think some of the photoshoots might have done her some damage. I didn't like her bondaged look at all. I recon some people may have been put off by them too. At the end of the day, the business people need to get their money back and make a profit as well, otherwise they will not throw good money after bad. It is just busness, nothing personal.
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Yep! It is what Janet's fans don't understand, the label support Janet all the ways they could before the album failed and then they decided not to put anymore effort in it (and it happens all the time, the label support tha albums of everyartist untill they can't earn more money from it, otherwise they will lose money), it didn't failed because they didn't do any promotion, it failed while they were doing promotion and that's why they rightly decided not to put any money in it. I personally think Janet is not that popular anymore simply because she is not different. She doesn't have anymore than everyone else younger and more athletic than her has. That is, simply, she should be more original. Nohing about hate her or whatever, nobody does, is just an objective opinion.
 
Anyway said:
Yes but actually that as everything they could do before lose money on that project. They supported the project untill they could,
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pulling straight out after a first single is not doing everything one could, no matter how badly a first single does. it's nowhere near doing their job at all, actually.

Discpline had some quality tunes that could have been brought to the attention of the masses through promotion and marketing (as that seems just about the only way Pop works nowadays).
 
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Maybe, but to me tha labum was really crap long and boring.
To me doesn't seem like that I saw Janet on tv shows on many magazines, the first single was played evrywhere many times a day and the second also for the fist weeks.
Actually Janet didn't do her job as well as she could..those playback perfomances! awful... I liked Janet but I am tired to say and hear "it is because of the label that didn't support her!" after 3 flops and 2 different music labels, I don't know but to me it sounds like an excuse for justify a bad album which didn't sell well. They promote Feedback in a very good way, they put money in it and in her second single, but the album dropped the charts after 2 weeks, while the promotion was high, I don't think is their job to lose money, but to support projects which will give back a certain amount of money. Is so simple, it is math, you can't put 200.000 $ if the projects gives back only 50.000$.
 
^ "after 3 flops and 2 music labels", it's not a matter of an excuse you see many people (dedicated fans, and casual ones alike) defending Discpline because it is no artistic flop - by far her best since TVR.
 
Anyway said:
I liked Janet but I am tired to say and hear "it is because of the label that didn't support her!" after 3 flops and 2 different music labels, I don't know but to me it sounds like an excuse for justify a bad album which didn't sell well.
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Very well, but I have yet to see you address the "excuses" in this thread with any semblance of logic.

You've said the label did all it could to support the cd, and that it is "so simple," okay, if they did all they could, why was there hardly any promo on an international level? That makes little to no sense whatsoever if you giving your all to ensure the commercial success of a cd. Does it?

What about the scenario I brought up with the single "Luv?" If they were doing all they could, why not commission a video for "Luv" since they released it to Radio at the same time as RWU, and not mention it was doing better than RWU, with no promo....
 
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I blame Janets music ventures lately on J.D...

I think she is so in love with him that she does not see that him as a producer etc. has ran it's course.. He was very limited to a specific style and sound and that's over now.. So when he tries to make a newer sound, it does not really pull off correctly..

love is blind, and it blinded her into 2 albums not doing well..

Not that I thought her 2 last albums were CRAP.. just not JANET standard.


That does not mean she does not have it either.. SHE DOES... She'll have to use trial and error to find the sound for her.. And to me she'll find it by simply looking away from J.D. regarding music.
 
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That Other Fan said:
Very well, but I have yet to see you address the "excuses" in this thread with any semblance of logic.

You've said the label did all it could to support the cd, and that it is "so simple," okay, if they did all they could, why was there hardly any promo on an international level? That makes little to no sense whatsoever if you giving your all to ensure the commercial success of a cd. Does it?

What about the scenario I brought up with the single "Luv?" If they were doing all they could, why not commission a video for "Luv" since they released it to Radio at the same time as RWU, and not mention it was doing better than RWU, with no promo....
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I said, again, they supported the project UNTILL the project itself FAILED and it failed since the second or third week since it was released on the market when the promotion was still at it best. Then they start to put less effort in it because is what music labels do because they can't risk to lose money,they pushed the album but the album was a flop anyway so they stop after they promote the second single. It is marketing logic, is very obvious, there is nothing against Janet in the label, just simple financial reason to do so. The album failed while they were promoting it and while they were putting money into it. That is again.
 
Anyway said:
I said, again, they supported the project UNTILL the project itself FAILED and it failed since the second or third week since it was released on the market when the promotion was still at it best. Then they start to put less effort in it because is what music labels do because they can't risk to lose money,they pushed the album but the album was a flop anyway so they stop after they promote the second single. It is marketing logic, is very obvious, there is nothing against Janet in the label, just simple financial reason to do so. The album failed while they were promoting it and while they were putting money into it. That is again.
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It makes sense to me.:yes:
 
This is such B.S. Its really annoying when record companies stop promotion on good music and flood the airwaves with garbage. I was dissaponted that Rock With You was not realeased as a single in the U.K. as far as I know. That would def have been a big hit for Janet. Im not sure if it was released in U.S. but Janet did film video for it.
 
well what does 'support the album' mean in ur terms???
 
threat said:
This is such B.S. Its really annoying when record companies stop promotion on good music and flood the airwaves with garbage. I was dissaponted that Rock With You was not realeased as a single in the U.K. as far as I know. That would def have been a big hit for Janet. Im not sure if it was released in U.S. but Janet did film video for it.
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I do not believe Rock witchu you would have been successful anywhere, for the same reason I thought and said it was a bad idea. That title has historical landmark for a whole generaion, it is sentimental and it is nostalgic. I thought it was a mistake to use that title and expect it to be a success and I was right. people don't like their minds messed up like that. They like to hold some things dear to them and that song title and Michael Jackson are inter related, just like Elvis and wooden heart.
Janet should have changed the song title for the same reason that Michael changed heart break hotel. People don't like change. my opnion.
 
KOPV said:
A person is ((NOT)) INVINCIBLE when something bad FINISHES them..


Neither of them are close to 'finished'.. Nothing bad that has happen tore them apart SO...

At this point I think it's safe they are still INVINCIBLE...



If you're on top and stay on top, that's one thing.. That shows you got what it takes to take on all comers.. That is A Victory

BUT

Each time you get knocked down, you get A VICTORY each time you stand back up..
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But is it fair to say that? Janet's album sales have been suffering since Damita Jo (her first real flop), and she's put out two more albums since then. I agree that the music isn't all bad (Discipline was better than 99% of the albums that came out this year), but it's still not as good as her Pre-Damita Jo output.

I think Janet needs to back off the music scene for a few years, gain back that spark of creativity that she used to have, and then come back with a bang. If the music is as good as her 80s and 90s albums, the public will welcome her back, I'm sure of it.
 
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^^ True, but Damita Jo still isn't another Velvet Rope, Control, or Rhythm Nation. It's around that point that Janet started losing her edge.
 
well iwouldn't ask for another vr only b/c she was deeply depressed and in a bad place, that's how the cd was so introspective
 
are mj fans actually fighting about which jackson does NOT act their age? cuz um.....
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Explain. Janet should cut it out with the oversexualized songs. How many times is she gonna have an orgasims (sp) in her songs?

I think Janet needs to back off the music scene for a few years, gain back that spark of creativity that she used to have, and then come back with a bang. If the music is as good as her 80s and 90s albums, the public will welcome her back, I'm sure of it.
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I have to agree with this. She needs to take some time off and find her creativity. She needs to stop letting JD (who I do adore) produce her CDs. He is good for Mariah and other people. Janet needs to go back to Jimmy Jam and Terry and Janet needs to get some inspriation.

I think she is so in love with him that she does not see that him as a producer etc. has ran it's course.. He was very limited to a specific style and sound and that's over now.. So when he tries to make a newer sound, it does not really pull off correctly..
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I agree with what you stated here. I watched something on her and it was stated that JD produced her latest effort. She was asked what did her and JD did and she laughed and said "work" and her whole body movement told me a diofferent story. I was like, "WTF?" I also read on prince.org on a huge Janet thread that according to L.A. Reid, Janet did not have any idea what she wanted to do with her latest cd. I found that odd coming from a music veteran. It also hurted that she did not write any songs on "Displine".
 
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