Atheist thread

man.in.the.mirror

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Well the Bible alone has started numerous Wars over the years, then theres other religions disagreeing with the Christian bible e.t.c. which leads to more fights, also religion has effects on stuff that doesn't really concern it like Politics e.t.c. the bible and religion as a whole is bad news for the world :yes:
it,s not the bible that creates the wars it,s the people,i believe in jehovah(which means in hebrew causes to become) and i believe the bible to be gods word ,where does it say in the bible kill one another ,hate one another,i.d like to know.because it isn,t,and if people lived there lives by the bible,there wouldn,t be any need for wars,
it,s people who cause the wars through greed ,money,leadership ,power ,you name it.
personally i think this thread should be closed,i,m all for everyone having opinions,but it will sooner or later get out of hand,and there is people on the board from all different backgrounds and beliefs so someone eventually is gonna get upset,
i agree with you thriller mj yes religion doesn,t belong in polotics,
 
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K.O.S.

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I dont think this comment is suitable, and can understand if it offends some people around here. What problems has the bible caused? and narrow minded surley beliving in a greater presence out there and the creation of existance by god is anything but narrow minded?

On another note i participated in a Alpha Course last year - I assume some may of heard of it? It was intersting and would recommend it for non believers. Its not there to convert (its did not convert me) its there to explain christianity. And they give you lots of wine and cake yum yum!

The Bible is the cause of much evil, there is no doubt about that. If someone takes offense at me or anyone saying this, then they do two things. They deny facts and they deny me and others right to criticize that book. People need to stop treating religion like this holy thing that can not be touched or talked down. Freedom of speech means you can say anything is good, and anything is bad. You can not be judged upon that. What you can and should be judged upon is wether your statement is accurate or not.

I personally would like the Bible to disapear into dust along with all the other "holy books" as I hate how it twists people's minds and distort childrens sense of reality and how its dogmatic nature pisses on human freedom and development.

Also, if you have read the Bible, you know there is some evil shit in it. No one can deny that, because it is written in the damn book, and you who say this book is the word of God and that it is accurate, have to justify why the book contains things like murder, rape, torture, slavery etc. The old testament tells of an evil character called God who will make your life miserable if you do not obey and believe in him. The new testament is slightly less harsh, but it still holds the same dogmatic none negotiable rules of conduct and philosophy of life. The book contradicts itself numerous times and it states claims about our world we know today to be false.

If you feed your kids with this stuff and tell them it is the truth, you are robbing them of a real chance to actually learn what the world is all about, and explore their own fate.

When you label your child to your religion before the child is able to think for itself, you commit child abuse.

Hammer me all you want for saying this, but I know alot of people who agree and do alot of good things to prevent this from destroying us. Because religion WILL be the cause for our doom, long before nature takes care of it.

Right now, a bunch of terrorist muslims are working on getting a nuclear device. Do not even think about telling me that religion has nothing to do with why these people exist.

I live in Norway, an atheist country. We have the lowest murder rate and highest living standards on Earth (Read from UN) We have proven that letting go of old mid evil myths and primitive life views leads to prosperity and happiness. There are some christians left, but they hold no influence in office, they pass no laws. Children are not taught about God in school by law. In my country, the days of religion is over. In a few generations, ALL Norwegians will be atheists. The rest of the world will follow one day, but I fear it will take a massive disaster of global magnitude to wake people up to realize that this fantasy of ours is nothing more then a feel good drug that we have grown dependent on.

Don't get me wrong, I do respect your right to believe what you will. But I do not approve of people who try to inject their beliefs onto innocent children, and at the same time try to pass laws and manipulate schools to indoctrinate people. That I will fight against for the rest of my life.
 

Superstition

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Right now, a bunch of terrorist muslims are working on getting a nuclear device. Do not even think about telling me that religion has nothing to do with why these people exist.

Its a facade. If it wasn't religion it would be something else.

Religion aside, with billions of people on earth it wouldn't matter if everyone was an atheist, we'd still have wars. No, that is not a fact, that is a theory, and probably backed up by the fact that Amazonian tribes who probably don't believe in any higher power and have never heard of God will hack and slash someone sailing down their part of the river or walking through their turf.
 

sugarbunny891

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I live in Norway, an atheist country. We have the lowest murder rate and highest living standards on Earth (Read from UN) We have proven that letting go of old mid evil myths and primitive life views leads to prosperity and happiness. There are some christians left, but they hold no influence in office, they pass no laws. Children are not taught about God in school by law. In my country, the days of religion is over. In a few generations, ALL Norwegians will be atheists. The rest of the world will follow one day, but I fear it will take a massive disaster of global magnitude to wake people up to realize that this fantasy of ours is nothing more then a feel good drug that we have grown dependent on.


Nearly 83% of Norwegians are members of the state Church of Norway, to which they are registered at baptism. Many remain in the state church to be able to use services such as baptism, confirmation, marriage and burial, rites which have strong cultural standing in Norway. Up to 40% of the membership attends church or religious meetings at least once annually, with fewer attending regularly.

According to the most recent Eurobarometer Poll 2005, 32% of Norwegian citizens responded that "they believe there is a god," whereas 47% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force" and 17% that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, god, or life force.
 

K.O.S.

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As long as the human race is divided AND dependent on natural resources, wich we do not share, then yes we will have wars. But we will have far less bloody wars. All the biggest and bloodiest wars were motivated by religion. The war on terror is motivated by religion.
 

sugarbunny891

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As long as the human race is divided AND dependent on natural resources, wich we do not share, then yes we will have wars. But we will have far less bloody wars. All the biggest and bloodiest wars were motivated by religion. The war on terror is motivated by religion.

The "war on terror" is a war on terrorists and terrorism not religon - I odnt think this is a disccusion to get into on here though really
 

K.O.S.

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Nearly 83% of Norwegians are members of the state Church of Norway, to which they are registered at baptism. Many remain in the state church to be able to use services such as baptism, confirmation, marriage and burial, rites which have strong cultural standing in Norway. Up to 40% of the membership attends church or religious meetings at least once annually, with fewer attending regularly.

According to the most recent Eurobarometer Poll 2005, 32% of Norwegian citizens responded that "they believe there is a god," whereas 47% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force" and 17% that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, god, or life force.

Yes that is true. I myself am a member. I am just lazy and haven't cancelled it yet. But I live in this country so I know what is what. 83% of the people are members of the church, but 80% of those people are atheiets or agnostic. On paper it might look like we are a christian nation, but in real life christians are a minority. And they are becoming a smaller group for each generation.

When people who work in office or have some form of social status and or are known, they get mocked if they talk about their beliefs. If the prime minister said on stand that we should follow the Bible, he would be out of office.

In the US an atheist can not be elected. In Norway you are expected to either be an atheist or a very moderate christian. One party in Norway that uses the Bible as guidance for their law making, went into office back in the 90`s and tried to pull off their agenda. They now hold 6% support in the population.
 

sugarbunny891

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When people who work in office or have some form of social status and or are known, they get mocked if they talk about their beliefs. If the prime minister said on stand that we should follow the Bible, he would be out of office.

I think that is the same for all countrys.
 

K.O.S.

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The "war on terror" is a war on terrorists and terrorism not religon - I odnt think this is a disccusion to get into on here though really

Actually it is. Because a suicide bombers motivation is the Quran. Osama Bin Laden might be one of the few who only uses Islam as a coverup for his real agenda. To mess up the US as much as he can. But if he did not have Islam, he would not be able to recrute so many people and create so much havoc.

The war on terror is fought by the US. And the US calls it a mission from God. I donn't think you need more then that to see that religion has played a huge role in history.
 

sugarbunny891

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Also if i remember rightly each December doesnt norway give a Christmas tree to the UK in thanks for the UK's assistance during World War II. They put it up in Trafalger Square. Why what a Athesist goverment/country give a christmas tree?
 

sugarbunny891

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Actually it is. Because a suicide bombers motivation is the Quran. Osama Bin Laden might be one of the few who only uses Islam as a coverup for his real agenda. To mess up the US as much as he can. But if he did not have Islam, he would not be able to recrute so many people and create so much havoc.

The war on terror is fought by the US. And the US calls it a mission from God. I donn't think you need more then that to see that religion has played a huge role in history.

So you are basically saying it should be called "war on religon" then? By saying it is?
Al-Qaeda has got to be no more than 400 members? Its a group not religon
 

K.O.S.

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Because Norway has been a christian country since the Viking era. We have traditions like all other countries. We celebrate all the holidays, but Norwegians are still atheists.

Norway has a very high standard when it comes to christmas trees because of our forests, and it has been a long time tradition to donate a tree to England. Norway holds its relationship with the UK very dear because of the 2 World War, so we don't brake of traditions so easily. You will find all types of religions in Norway. We are a diverse culture now and we allow everyone to practice their faith however they want, as long as it does not brake the law. But the Norwegian people have spoken. We do not want religion in our schools and our government. And that is how it is today.
 

K.O.S.

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So you are basically saying it should be called "war on religon" then? By saying it is?
Al-Qaeda has got to be no more than 400 members? Its a group not religon

No Al-Qaeda is a group. And they are far more then 400 members. My point is that the people doing the dirty work are hardcore believers of Islam. If you take away Islam, Al Qaeda looses ground. They depend upon Islam to recruite suicide bombers. And Al Qaeda is only one of many terrorist groups. It was originally not a war between religions, but it has become one now.
 

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No one knows how the Universe came about. But we know a lot about what happened nanoseconds after it happened. If you want to dig your head deeper into this, I suggest you do some reading on Dr. Stephen Hawking. He has some books and lectures where he talks about this. Very interesting, and very true indeed.

But I can tell you this. The Universe does not exist for a purpose. That is the defualt position we humans must come to realize. No one exists for any special reason. You exist because you exist, and most importantly because you can exist. Existence just is. There is no divine plan. The Universe is random and does not rely on predetermined outcomes. Life is about opportunities. It is about sensing and experience, and most importantly survival.

If you want to know more about matter and energy, read quantum physics. As I said, the Universe is a maze of opportunities. And what can happen, will most likely happen, somewhere. Maybe here, maybe somewhere else. But the beauty of it, it can happen. And the most brilliant thing is. The Universe can happen without a cause. Sound silly? I know. But read some quantum physics and watch "The Double Slit" Experiment on YouTube, and you will have a new meaning of what is silly. Imagine this. Two particles existing at two different places at the same time. It actually is what happens, I kid you not;) What we know as cause and effect is the mechanical system that runs the Universe. But the crazy thing is that the notion of cause and effect only apply where space, matter, energy and time exist. Without this variables, there is no cause, no effect. That is what physics and quantum mechanics are struggling to figure out. How can existence come from none existence But they are so close to an answer now, it is only a matter of time until we have a unified theory. A theory of everything. The most likely answer they have is something called The Multiverse. They believe that there are several universes and these universes come about in the same manner as we did, and that this happens all the time, always has and always will be. The most likely answer to this is black holes. Universes expand, collapse and expand again. Some universes expand to become something like ours. Some universe expand just a tiny bit before collapsing in on itself. Like soap bubbles.

Quote:

"there is plenty of evidance to prove god exists,you only have to look at nature,the bible also backs it up 100% and the bible has been proved right by archiology,
we didnt just get here with a big explosion,a greater force than us is behind it all,"



I think you are mistaken Sir. There is no evidence for God. Looking at nature does not count as evidence. That is using common human perception and using your emotional responses to nature as evidence. Nature is what it is, and it does not require a higher force to exist. It requires two things to come into existence. Space and Energy. The Big Bang was not an explosion, it was an expansion of space and it is still going on. And the Bible has never been proven right by anyone. That is a false statement. The Bible is many things, but it is not credible to fact, and it is certainly not historically correct.

If anyone wants to convince me there is a God, you can not do it by analogy, or by using false dichotomy. You have to demonstrate empirically what the word God means, what it is, why it is, how it is and how it came to be. If you can do that, then you will convince this atheist beyond reasonable doubt. Till, then I stay a Pastafarian and believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster. :)

Every single thing you are saying is based on THEORY as far as what is behind everything. Stephen Hawkins still can't explain WHY? Before the big bang is the EVENT HORIZON, Scientist don't know what was before the big bang. The scientist are talk about the BIG RIP, they know the Universe can't keep expanding. Multi-Universes and Worm Holes are all based on theory. But that still doesn't DIS-PROVES there is a God or Supreme being.

And the fact that every since Man has existed, the questioned has always been, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AND WHO/WHAT IS BEHIND IT ALL?

THAT'S WHERE THE BELIEF IN A GOD OR SUPREME BEING COMES INTO PLAY.:cheeky:
 

K.O.S.

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Every single thing you are saying is based on THEORY as far as what is behind everything. Stephen Hawkins still can't explain WHY? Before the big bang is the EVENT HORIZON, Scientist don't know what was before the big bang. The scientist are talk about the BIG RIP, they know the Universe can't keep expanding. Multi-Universes and Worm Holes are all based on theory. But that still doesn't DIS-PROVES there is a God or Supreme being.

And the fact that every since Man has existed, the questioned has always been, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AND WHO/WHAT IS BEHIND IT ALL?

THAT'S WHERE THE BELIEF IN A GOD OR SUPREME BEING COMES INTO PLAY.:cheeky:

Well the problem with your post is that you use the word "theory" incorrectly. In your sentence a theory means a guess, a hunch or a suggestion. But the word theory in science has a complete different meaning. The word theory is the highest form of explanation you can get. It is the last step of the scientific method. Theory does not mean "a guess" "a hunch" or "a suggestion". It is an explanatory model that explains the available evidence.

In science you start with a premiss. You decide to explain a physical phenomenon. In science you start with observation of your subject. You then, based on that observation construct a hypothesis to explain the phenomenon. You conduct a series of experiments and you try to verify the predictions you make. If you fail, your original hypothesis is cast away and you have to come up with a new one. If you somehow manage to succeed and prove your hypothesis, you submit your findings to something called "peer review" This is where all the relevant scientists in the world try your experiment and try to get the same results as you. If they manage to get different results then what you had, your hypothesis gets rejected- But if the scientists(And this is done 100 of times before accepted as valid) are able to replicate your findings, make the same predictions, your hypothesis has become a "Scientific Theory" It then gets published.

A theory has to be falsifiable and verifiable. You have to be able to empirically test your theory at any given time. And should you discover new evidence that would contradict the theory, you revise the theory. This is done everyday in science.

But calling a theory just a theory, then you are missing out on what that word means

Gravity is also a theory. We have other theories as well. Atomic theory(nuclear technology) Cell theory(Biological cells), Computer theory(how to make a computer), quantum theory(explains how particles operate) and numerous other theories. These are all "just theories" As I said a scientific theory is never a guess of any kind. You can not have a theory without the evidence. The theory of evolution would not be a theory if we did not have all the evidence at our hands.

String Theory and Multiverse theory are called theories because the predictions match 100% But these theories are made out of mathematics.

And yes Stephen Hawking doesn't know everything. No one does. But I don't see that as an argument for a God. The burden of proof is with the people claiming that God exist.


You can not prove that something does not exist. That would be a paradox, because the word existence is a physical definition, and without physical data you can not prove anything. So by default, for something to exist or likely to exist, you have to prove its existence or provide evidence for any probability for such a thing to exist.

The problem with God, is that it is not a theory. It is not even a hypothesis. You can not test it, verify it, falsify it. You can not do anything. That is why I reject the notion of a God, because it lacks 100% of all the evidence of any kind to support it.

Just because we don't know certain things yet, does not mean that some divine being is the likely answer. That is how men and women thought 2-3000 years ago, and guess what came out of that. The Bible. The master of all guessing games in the world.


Just to ad something before this thread goes apeshit.

I talk alot of science shit, but remember this well. Science has NEVER talked about God. Science does not take God into consideration when applied. Scientists can not use God in any scientific test or theory- The reason is simple. God is by definition an "unknown"

Scientists rely on empirical data to be able to work, and God does not provide that.

This is a misconception among many people, who think that science challenges religion. It does not. Religion challenges itself.
 
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pamarella

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Well the problem with your post is that you use the word "theory" incorrectly. In your sentence a theory means a guess, a hunch or a suggestion. But the word theory in science has a complete different meaning. The word theory is the highest form of explanation you can get. It is the last step of the scientific method. Theory does not mean "a guess" "a hunch" or "a suggestion". It is an explanatory model that explains the available evidence.

In science you start with a premiss. You decide to explain a physical phenomenon. In science you start with observation of your subject. You then, based on that observation construct a hypothesis to explain the phenomenon. You conduct a series of experiments and you try to verify the predictions you make. If you fail, your original hypothesis is cast away and you have to come up with a new one. If you somehow manage to succeed and prove your hypothesis, you submit your findings to something called "peer review" This is where all the relevant scientists in the world try your experiment and try to get the same results as you. If they manage to get different results then what you had, your hypothesis gets rejected- But if the scientists(And this is done 100 of times before accepted as valid) are able to replicate your findings, make the same predictions, your hypothesis has become a "Scientific Theory" It then gets published.

A theory has to be falsifiable and verifiable. You have to be able to empirically test your theory at any given time. And should you discover new evidence that would contradict the theory, you revise the theory. This is done everyday in science.

But calling a theory just a theory, then you are missing out on what that word means

Gravity is also a theory. We have other theories as well. Atomic theory(nuclear technology) Cell theory(Biological cells), Computer theory(how to make a computer), quantum theory(explains how particles operate) and numerous other theories. These are all "just theories" As I said a scientific theory is never a guess of any kind. You can not have a theory without the evidence. The theory of evolution would not be a theory if we did not have all the evidence at our hands.

String Theory and Multiverse theory are called theories because the predictions match 100% But these theories are made out of mathematics.

And yes Stephen Hawking doesn't know everything. No one does. But I don't see that as an argument for a God. The burden of proof is with the people claiming that God exist.


You can not prove that something does not exist. That would be a paradox, because the word existence is a physical definition, and without physical data you can not prove anything. So by default, for something to exist or likely to exist, you have to prove its existence or provide evidence for any probability for such a thing to exist.

The problem with God, is that it is not a theory. It is not even a hypothesis. You can not test it, verify it, falsify it. You can not do anything. That is why I reject the notion of a God, because it lacks 100% of all the evidence of any kind to support it.

Just because we don't know certain things yet, does not mean that some divine being is the likely answer. That is how men and women thought 2-3000 years ago, and guess what came out of that. The Bible. The master of all guessing games in the world.


Just to ad something before this thread goes apeshit.

I talk alot of science shit, but remember this well. Science has NEVER talked about God. Science does not take God into consideration when applied. Scientists can not use God in any scientific test or theory- The reason is simple. God is by definition an "unknown"

Scientists rely on empirical data to be able to work, and God does not provide that.

This is a misconception among many people, who think that science challenges religion. It does not. Religion challenges itself.

A THEORY means that based on some evidence some things can be proven true but it doesn't prove absolute certainty. There still can be questions. A THEORY doesn't prove absolute fact or truth. And scientist do not try to dis-prove that there is a God either. Many scientist will tell you that they do believe in a God or being.

Gravity is a theory that has been proven. Whether you believe in the law of gravity or not, it's effects you can not escape. And understanding the theory of gravity is meaningless. Stephen Hawkins my know the theory of gravity for all it's scientific worth and a village idiot my not know anything, but if the both of them jump off of a building, they are going to hit the ground with the same exact force.

I see the supreme being the same way. Because I don't see a God or force or Being, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

When I look out at the world, I am looking at God or a Supreme Being in it's many many manifested forms. I don't think of God as an individual from a religeous viewpoint.

I think you are getting too wrap up in the term "GOD" Let go of the different religious terms of what God is and look at a FORCE. There is something responsible for all this.

AND STILL ALL THE SCIENTIFIC THEORIES DO NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION WHY????
 

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I dislike the term "atheism" because it acknowledges theism. Frankly, god is simply a crude explanation to various mysteries that has long since passed its expiration date. Just think of the almighty creator in his infinite existence for a moment. If God has always existed and he has always been the creator, where are his infinite number of creations which came prior to the big bang? Surely if he had been creating things in perpetuity there would be some sign of these creations, unless these creations are of the invisible sort like Angels and Djinns (which are about as substantial as faeries and elves). Plot hole in the mythology.

A talking baby in a cradle (speaking full sentences with correct grammar no less), a girl becoming a mother without male intervention, an invisible race of beings which delivers sacred messages to a chosen few. Truly, there is little need to criticize that which damns itself.
 

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Ok, thanks for responding. Nice to chat about something else then Michael, lol.

Well I am an atheist because I do not believe in things that do not have evidence for it.

Also, after reading human history and human psychology, I came to realize that the concept of a God most likely comes from our own imagination. I won't get into it to much, because I don't want to write five pages to explain myself. That I can do on PM.

But for me, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And in all human history, there has been no evidence for anything remotely close to being divine.

The Universe does not require a God to exist, and we know life do not require a God to evolve. When I think about that, and review human history and human thought, I am deeply convinced that religion and the belief in a higher force is nothing but wishful thinking. The Universe is complex, it is old and it is huge. It contains wonders never seen before, and it works on a set of laws, that no longer are laws if we look at the really small(particles) The Universe is a system of chance and probability. It is a maze of posibillities, and it might not be the only one out there. I study a lot of science and quantum mechanics is perhaps the most interesting field. It shows what the Universe really is. It gives you a perspective of the physical world, you cannot get from looking at it in a normal way. We humans simply can not see matter. We only see light and we only see parts of that light. Thanks to technology and science we can look at the building blocks for matter. We can see what energy is and how it changes into matter.

I bet many didn't know this. But matter is actually space. It is emptiness. When you touch something, you actually don't touch anything. Your atoms collide with the atoms of the object you touch, and the electromagnetic force prohibits the two atoms from passing through each other. Hence the reason why objects feel hard or soft etc.

Stuff like this gets your mind going, and after digging your head through it a few times, religion becomes boring.

your last two paragraphs sound like God saying the invisible controls the visible, and that sight is temporal. that is something he says in the Bible.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv...=Long&q1=temporal&restrict=All&size=First+100
 

Steve001

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I dislike the term "atheism" because it acknowledges theism. Frankly, god is simply a crude explanation to various mysteries that has long since passed its expiration date. Just think of the almighty creator in his infinite existence for a moment. If God has always existed and he has always been the creator, where are his infinite number of creations which came prior to the big bang? Surely if he had been creating things in perpetuity there would be some sign of these creations, unless these creations are of the invisible sort like Angels and Djinns (which are about as substantial as faeries and elves). Plot hole in the mythology.

A talking baby in a cradle (speaking full sentences with correct grammar no less), a girl becoming a mother without male intervention, an invisible race of beings which delivers sacred messages to a chosen few. Truly, there is little need to criticize that which damns itself.


Very well said Hardcastle...I totally agree 100%!! I couldn't have worded it better myself. :yes:
 

smoothcriminal12

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Ok, thanks for responding. Nice to chat about something else then Michael, lol.

Well I am an atheist because I do not believe in things that do not have evidence for it.

Also, after reading human history and human psychology, I came to realize that the concept of a God most likely comes from our own imagination. I won't get into it to much, because I don't want to write five pages to explain myself. That I can do on PM.

But for me, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And in all human history, there has been no evidence for anything remotely close to being divine.

The Universe does not require a God to exist, and we know life do not require a God to evolve. When I think about that, and review human history and human thought, I am deeply convinced that religion and the belief in a higher force is nothing but wishful thinking. The Universe is complex, it is old and it is huge. It contains wonders never seen before, and it works on a set of laws, that no longer are laws if we look at the really small(particles) The Universe is a system of chance and probability. It is a maze of posibillities, and it might not be the only one out there. I study a lot of science and quantum mechanics is perhaps the most interesting field. It shows what the Universe really is. It gives you a perspective of the physical world, you cannot get from looking at it in a normal way. We humans simply can not see matter. We only see light and we only see parts of that light. Thanks to technology and science we can look at the building blocks for matter. We can see what energy is and how it changes into matter.

I bet many didn't know this. But matter is actually space. It is emptiness. When you touch something, you actually don't touch anything. Your atoms collide with the atoms of the object you touch, and the electromagnetic force prohibits the two atoms from passing through each other. Hence the reason why objects feel hard or soft etc.

Stuff like this gets your mind going, and after digging your head through it a few times, religion becomes boring.

Interesting....

But there is one question that must be answered:

What happened that made these atoms get here? What makes that electromagnetic force stop from letting these atoms go right through each other? Who or what does that?
 
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