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Cascio Tracks Debate Thread

love is magical said:
To be fair, we don't know what the children have said or have not said. We all know how bad the media is. Quotes from RF are not trustworthy.

I agree that the children should not be brought up in this discussion.
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So you're saying that none of us can refer to the media? Then on what basis are people having this debate? The quote I gave had nothing to do with Roger Friedman. If people want to point at Sony's experts and Teddy Riley, etc, NONE of them
trumps Michael's own children's assertions. Simple as that.
 
samhabib said:
So you're saying that none of us can refer to the media? Then on what basis are people having this debate? The quote I gave had nothing to do with Roger Friedman. If people want to point at Sony's experts and Teddy Riley, etc, NONE of them
trumps Michael's own children's assertions. Simple as that.
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Unless you saw the children state this themselves, no one is going to believe it, nor should they, especially coming from a Yahoo gossip site.
 
[I'm repeating here a post I sent on the Maximum Jackson website]

While I personally don't know whether the Cascio tracks are real or not, I was thinking the other day that so far, we've only looked at the controversy from one perspective, which is : "let's listen to the tracks and judge whether they sound like MJ".

But let's look at the whole thing from another angle: Would carrying out such a hoax even be possible? What would it entail? It seems to me that the following would have had to happen for the Cascio tracks to be fake :

1- The whole Cascio family, as well as James Porte and presumable HIS family, would have to agree to go ahead with their scheme, and promise never to say a word about it.

2- The perpetrators would have to contact Jason Malachi -- a man they presumably had never talked to -- and get him as well as his loved ones to go along with the hoax, and promise never to reveal it.

3- In order for the scheme to be profitable to all involved, the perpetrators -- Eddie Cascio, Porte and Malachi -- would then have to agree on a legally binding payment or financial agreement regarding sharing of royalties. Lawyers would have to be brought in for it to have any value.

4- Then, the vocals would have to be recorded, which entails that either Malachi went to New Jersey to records his vocals, or that he did them elsewhere.

Regarding this previous point, we have heard 4 Cascio tracks so far. Two are conventional, free-flowing ballads with apparently unprocessed vocals, while the other two are up-tempo, heavily processed vocals with seem to be made up of a collage of parts. A sub-question is : why do the 4 songs seem to reveal different stages of completion? Were the perpetrators so clever that they purposedly recorded "complete" songs like "All I Need", and other "incomplete" ones like "Monster" so they could create the illusion that some of them were made up on the spot with MJ?

5- Finally, the perpetrators would have to have the guts to go to Sony, to the Estate, and finally to an audience of millions on the Oprah Show, and lie through their teeth.

And they would have to do ALL OF THE ABOVE knowing full well that if their hoax was ever revealed for what it is, they would face certain litigation from one of the most powerful companies in the world, almost certain financial ruin, and utter personal humiliation.


So, here is the final question : would such a hoax even be possible?
 
samhabib said:
So you're saying that none of us can refer to the media? Then on what basis are people having this debate? The quote I gave had nothing to do with Roger Friedman. If people want to point at Sony's experts and Teddy Riley, etc, NONE of them
trumps Michael's own children's assertions. Simple as that.
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I'm not saying you can't refer to media report. I just feel it's not necessary to bring up the children. I think the children should be left out of this matter. Moreover, we just don't know what the children have said. That's all.

To me, the children's privacy is much more important than the authenticity of these tracks.
 
J_H said:
In 2007 Michael recorded 12 songs in the Cascios home studio.
One of them is Water. As far as I know, Michael sang a bit of Water in This Is It.
If the "Water, water, water" was really a part of the song Water ;), then this proves that Michael really did the "Cascio Tracks". So why hire an impersonator if they have the real deal?
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Good point : if that Water Water song ever comes out, this will be an important piece of evidence. It would also prove that as late as 2009, he still had those Cascio songs on his mind, which could indicate that he was indeed willing to bring them to London.
 
kreen said:
[I'm repeating here a post I sent on the Maximum Jackson website]

While I personally don't know whether the Cascio tracks are real or not, I was thinking the other day that so far, we've only looked at the controversy from one perspective, which is : "let's listen to the tracks and judge whether they sound like MJ".

But let's look at the whole thing from another angle: Would carrying out such a hoax even be possible? What would it entail? It seems to me that the following would have had to happen for the Cascio tracks to be fake :

1- The whole Cascio family, as well as James Porte and presumable HIS family, would have to agree to go ahead with their scheme, and promise never to say a word about it.

2- The perpetrators would have to contact Jason Malachi -- a man they presumably had never talked to -- and get him as well as his loved ones to go along with the hoax, and promise never to reveal it.

3- In order for the scheme to be profitable to all involved, the perpetrators -- Eddie Cascio, Porte and Malachi -- would then have to agree on a legally binding payment or financial agreement regarding sharing of royalties. Lawyers would have to be brought in for it to have any value.

4- Then, the vocals would have to be recorded, which entails that either Malachi went to New Jersey to records his vocals, or that he did them elsewhere.

Regarding this previous point, we have heard 4 Cascio tracks so far. Two are conventional, free-flowing ballads with apparently unprocessed vocals, while the other two are up-tempo, heavily processed vocals with seem to be made up of a collage of parts. A sub-question is : why do the 4 songs seem to reveal different stages of completion? Were the perpetrators so clever that they purposedly recorded "complete" songs like "All I Need", and other "incomplete" ones like "Monster" so they could create the illusion that some of them were made up on the spot with MJ?

5- Finally, the perpetrators would have to have the guts to go to Sony, to the Estate, and finally to an audience of millions on the Oprah Show, and lie through their teeth.

And they would have to do ALL OF THE ABOVE knowing full well that if their hoax was ever revealed for what it is, they would face certain litigation from one of the most powerful companies in the world, almost certain financial ruin, and utter personal humiliation.


So, here is the final question : would such a hoax even be possible?
Click to expand...


If you read some wikileaks you would be surprised to see how many more hoaxes have been possible, much more complicated than Cascio tracks. Everything is possible. But the truth prevails eventually. Time will tell.

The funny thing is that for my part I hear Michael in the song "All I need" and good part in KYHU, but have serious doubts about BN and Monster. It is not necessarily a question of Cascio tracks or not, but of what we hear on some of those tracks.
 
I just hope that they never gonna release Cascio tracks as single or video !! That would be not good for the controversy...
 
kreen said:
Good point : if that Water Water song ever comes out, this will be an important piece of evidence. It would also prove that as late as 2009, he still had those Cascio songs on his mind, which could indicate that he was indeed willing to bring them to London.
Click to expand...


Can anyone here Tweet Kenny about this song "Water" and ask if Michael did sung "Water" in those few lines?
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Unless you saw the children state this themselves, no one is going to believe it, nor should they, especially coming from a Yahoo gossip site.
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In that case no one on this board is allowed to claim that 'forensic audiologists', Bruce Swedien, Dr. Freeze and everyone else that was namechecked in that bogus Sony release (apart from the unstable Teddy Riley) have attested that the vocals are Michael's? Because I haven't seen them asserting that?
 
kreen said:
Good point : if that Water Water song ever comes out, this will be an important piece of evidence. It would also prove that as late as 2009, he still had those Cascio songs on his mind, which could indicate that he was indeed willing to bring them to London.
Click to expand...

I'm not able to see any correlation between the "Water response" and the authenticity of the Cascio tracks vocals.

Most of us do not dispute that Michael wrote part of the tracks and recorded demos at the Cascio studio. The issue is how complete those demos were and how much production works have done to fill in the gap.

Say, Michael was indeed singing the song Water instead of just answering Kenny. It doesn't offer much insight. It's not like Michael was singing "mama say mama get a zig zag" (whatever that line is)...
 
love is magical said:
I'm not able to see any correlation between the "Water response" and the authenticity of the Cascio tracks vocals.

Most of us do not dispute that Michael wrote part of the tracks and recorded demos at the Cascio studio. The issue is how complete those demos were and how much production works have done to fill in the gap.

Say, Michael was indeed singing the song Water instead of just answering Kenny. It doesn't offer much insight. It's not like Michael was singing "mama say mama get a zig zag" (whatever that line is)...
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Hello, how are you? :cheeky:
 
samhabib said:
In that case no one on this board is allowed to claim that 'forensic audiologists', Bruce Swedien, Dr. Freeze and everyone else that was namechecked in that bogus Sony release (apart from the unstable Teddy Riley) have attested that the vocals are Michael's? Because I haven't seen them asserting that?
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I said before Sony/Estate has yet to show any proof, other than what they said in the statement. Still, I'd take their word over gossip reporting.
 
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Thanks for the debates so far guys, but just remember the rules please.

A couple of things, the statements about Michael's children stating the songs are fake, there has NEVER been a video or an official response in an interview where Michael's kids stated this, Joe Jackson, the one who said that also said when TII came out last year "They used body doubles in a lot of the scenes and the media is going to tear this film up because of it". As well as that, Michael's family have lied PLENTY of times about things concerning him, for example to name a few, LaToya calling him a pedophile, Joe stating he never beat Michael (and later admitting it along with Katherine Jackson). Now on top of this, we can also see WHY the Jacksons would bash the Cascio tracks, because Michael spent his last years recording with the Cascio's and not his nephews 3T for example, 3T are the BIGGEST anti-cascio movement from the family as shown by the Riley-3T war on Twitter. As for his mum and dad, they most probably felt a strong amount of jelousy that Michael seemed to feel more comfertable aroun the Cascio's as opposed to his own family (As he would just 'turn up at the door', and yet he stated he didn't see his family much because he was "busy").
 
Theres nothing to debate about. Michael isnt singing on those tracks... period.
 
You have no proof of that. It's nice that you've been listening to Michael for 8 years, you still have 0% of proof that it's not him on these recordings...If you're not willing to hear another's opinion or debate on the issue, then why the heck did you respond? You can just, you know, stay out of this thread and others like it.
 
With all due respect Larry, either side hasn't provided any proof at all, and I fail to see why it would be up to those who don't believe in the Cascio tracks to provide proof that it's not him. It's like a Jehova's Witness turning up to my door step. I don't share their beliefs, but i'm not going to find evidence to support the reason why I don't accept something I can't see or hear is true. So for me to accept that 3 songs on "Michael" sound nothing like him at all, I need proof in order to accept it.

The only thing we as "non-Cascio track accepters" have been given, is excuses. Excuses which attempt to explain why the vocals on these songs sound so different. It has been admitted and accepted by everyone that these vocals don't sound "the same" and therefore we've heard that every single studio trick was used in order to make the vocals sound production quality.

I'm not saying it's definitely Jason Malachi singing these tracks, but i'd stake my house and everything I own on the songs sounding more Malachi like than Jackson. And unfortunately for me, if these songs that are so clearly different in every way and there are a lot of long time Michael fans accepting this as "obviously Michael" then I feel like I should fly the white flag now, and the next "Mamacita" song to surface may as well just be embraced as a lost MJ track.

That truly is my biggest fear. In my opinion we have been handed songs that sound more "Mamacita" like than ANYTHING Michael has ever sung before, and because it came from Sony a great amount has accepted it and gobbled up the reasons for it sounding so different for breakfast.
 
Daniel.San said:
With all due respect Larry, either side hasn't provided any proof at all, and I fail to see why it would be up to those who don't believe in the Cascio tracks to provide proof that it's not him. It's like a Jehova's Witness turning up to my door step. I don't share their beliefs, but i'm not going to find evidence to support the reason why I don't accept something I can't see or hear is true. So for me to accept that 3 songs on "Michael" sound nothing like him at all, I need proof in order to accept it.

The only thing we as "non-Cascio track accepters" have been given, is excuses. Excuses which attempt to explain why the vocals on these songs sound so different. It has been admitted and accepted by everyone that these vocals don't sound "the same" and therefore we've heard that every single studio trick was used in order to make the vocals sound production quality.

I'm not saying it's definitely Jason Malachi singing these tracks, but i'd stake my house and everything I own on the songs sounding more Malachi like than Jackson. And unfortunately for me, if these songs that are so clearly different in every way and there are a lot of long time Michael fans accepting this as "obviously Michael" then I feel like I should fly the white flag now, and the next "Mamacita" song to surface may as well just be embraced as a lost MJ track.

That truly is my biggest fear. In my opinion we have been handed songs that sound more "Mamacita" like than ANYTHING Michael has ever sung before, and because it came from Sony a great amount has accepted it and gobbled up the reasons for it sounding so different for breakfast.
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I really can't add much to this...My sentiments exactly...
 
Daniel.San said:
With all due respect Larry, either side hasn't provided any proof at all, and I fail to see why it would be up to those who don't believe in the Cascio tracks to provide proof that it's not him. It's like a Jehova's Witness turning up to my door step. I don't share their beliefs, but i'm not going to find evidence to support the reason why I don't accept something I can't see or hear is true. So for me to accept that 3 songs on "Michael" sound nothing like him at all, I need proof in order to accept it.

The only thing we as "non-Cascio track accepters" have been given, is excuses. Excuses which attempt to explain why the vocals on these songs sound so different. It has been admitted and accepted by everyone that these vocals don't sound "the same" and therefore we've heard that every single studio trick was used in order to make the vocals sound production quality.

I'm not saying it's definitely Jason Malachi singing these tracks, but i'd stake my house and everything I own on the songs sounding more Malachi like than Jackson. And unfortunately for me, if these songs that are so clearly different in every way and there are a lot of long time Michael fans accepting this as "obviously Michael" then I feel like I should fly the white flag now, and the next "Mamacita" song to surface may as well just be embraced as a lost MJ track.

That truly is my biggest fear. In my opinion we have been handed songs that sound more "Mamacita" like than ANYTHING Michael has ever sung before, and because it came from Sony a great amount has accepted it and gobbled up the reasons for it sounding so different for breakfast.
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It's up to them to provide proof because it's already been stated that it's Michael on the records, by both the label and The Estate. They have nothing else to do, they've already said their piece, and they've explained why they believe what they do. No pun intended, but it's human nature, if you disagree with something, you have to prove why, if someone is accused of fraud, it has to be proven. Now you're all basically saying Sony have committed fraud with the release of this album and the songs on it, now it's in your hands to prove it. That's how the world works.
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
You have no proof of that. It's nice that you've been listening to Michael for 8 years, you still have 0% of proof that it's not him on these recordings...If you're not willing to hear another's opinion or debate on the issue, then why the heck did you respond? You can just, you know, stay out of this thread and others like it.
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Learn to read

been listening to Mike since the AGE of 8... and my opinion is just as much valid as any one elses in here.. it doesnt change the fact that people are still going to comment regardless.
 
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