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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

I feel like we need Michael's VOICE now. He did address many issues in the 60 Minutes Interview that we are still talking about TODAY.



 
Almost finished watching part 1 of the documentary now, and it been a struggle! I find this documentary embarrassing for the two men involved and their families as the things they say and the way they say them are not credible. Only someone who believes that Michael was ***** ***** is going to believe their nonsense tales.

The parents look like they dropped the ball allowing themselves to be separated from their children, as they put it. Surely, that makes them look neglectful! Of course, they are doing this for fame and money, as some folks believe there is no such thing as bad publicity. Disgusting people.
 
Guys, do you agree that the estate should communicate a little with us? I don't expect them to tell us about legal matters but surely they are aware of what a shitstorm it has been this week, even if it did FLOP for HBO. A little communication goes a long way.

I really wonder what happens next. This can't be it, we've no idea when this rebuttal doc will even come out (one really should have been ready as soon as this filth aired) but have the estate no ground to sue on at all? Except for what they are already suing them for. But something HAS to be done about these three liars, disgusting pieces of human waste.
 
nextbigthing56;4246370 said:
Sorry if this has already been posted..

**FACT-BOMB: The evidence the media refuses to show you about Michael Jackson’s accusers**

For five years, these men – both professional actors – have been suing Michael Jackson’s estate for hundreds of millions of dollars. This lawsuit has generated thousands of pages of court records: witness statements, motions, depositions and disclosure. These public documents PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt that the men are lying. The whole media knows about these documents, but are refusing to report on them.

*Both men strenuously defended Jackson, including under oath, for decades, and only decided they’d been molested years after his death, when they were both in financial trouble and filed a lawsuit seeking hundreds of millions of dollars. That lawsuit was thrown out of court – twice – but the men are in the middle of an appeal, giving them a gigantic financial motive to lie.

*Since filing their lawsuit, both men have repeatedly changed their stories, frequently telling directly contradictory versions of the same supposed events. For example, Wade Robson has told at least four directly contradictory stories about the first time Jackson supposedly abused him.

*In the lawsuit, Robson was caught lying under oath so brazenly that the judge threw out his entire witness statement and said no rational juror could ever believe his account.

*Between 2012 and 2014, Robson wrote two drafts of an abuse memoir and tried unsuccessfully to sell them to publishers. Meanwhile, he lied under oath and said he’d never discussed his allegations with anyone except his lawyers. When the Jackson estate discovered he’d actually been shopping books, the court ordered him to produce the drafts as evidence. They revealed the story of his abuse had changed significantly from one draft to the next.

*Robson was also ordered to release his emails as evidence. He breached the order repeatedly, first by claiming they didn’t exist, then by simply refusing to hand them over. Then he redacted all the emails between himself and his family members and cited ‘attorney-client’ privilege, even though none of his family are attorneys.

*When he eventually complied with the court order and released the emails, they revealed that at the time he was constructing his lawsuit and abuse memoir, he was researching and emailing himself links to old tabloid newspaper stories about abuse allegations against Michael Jackson.

*The emails showed Robson found one particular story from the early 1990s which specifically named he and his mother. He emailed it to his mother and asked whether it was true. She replied, ‘Wow, none of that is true’. He then included it in his story anyway.

*Emails also revealed that throughout 2011/12, Robson was lobbying Jackson’s estate for a job directing and choreographing an official Michael Jackson tribute show in Las Vegas. His campaign to secure this role had included sending emails explaining that his amazing friendship with Jackson meant nobody was better qualified for the role than he was, and he was devoted to doing the best job he possibly could ‘for Michael’. After being told someone else had got the job, he suddenly claimed he’d been abused and filed a creditor’s claim against the estate for millions of dollars.

*Months later, according to Jimmy Safechuck, he flipped on the TV and saw Wade Robson being interviewed about his lawsuit. In that moment, Safechuck suddenly remembered that he had been abused by Jackson as well, so decided to join the lawsuit. He didn’t mention that this epiphany coincided exactly with his inheritance circling the drain after a relative died and the surviving siblings started suing each other – including him – for control of the family business.

*Robson was also ordered to produce his diaries as evidence. In them, he’d written about how these allegations might rescue his failing career by making him ‘relatable and relevant’. He also wrote, ‘It’s time for me to get mine.’ When questioned under oath about what he’d meant when he wrote that, he refused to answer.

*Both men tell stories in the TV show which directly contradict stories told under oath in their lawsuit. In fact, they have continued to change their stories as recently as within the last week.

*For example, Jimmy Safechuck claims under oath in the lawsuit that he only remembered Jackson had abused him in 2013 when he turned on the TV and saw Robson. Yet in tonight’s TV show and interviews promoting it, he claims he knew he’d been abused in 2005 and thus, when asked to testify for Jackson’s defence ‘towards the end of the trial’, he refused to do so.

*But that’s a provable lie. Safechuck was never asked to testify for Jackson’s defence. The judge ruled long before the trial began that testimony could only be heard about certain children, and Safechuck was not one of them. All testimony about Safechuck was literally banned from the courtroom. So Jackson’s defence cannot have asked him to testify – and certainly not after the trial was already underway.

*Robson claimed in a BBC interview last week that Jackson had abused him ‘hundreds of times’. Yet his mother’s sworn testimony is that they went to Neverland roughly 14 times but Jackson was almost never there. She estimates the number of times they visited the ranch and he was actually there was four.

*Questioned about their financial motive, the men now say they don’t care about money and are only suing to embolden other abuse victims by holding the Jackson estate accountable. This is a provable lie. The lawsuit was originally filed under seal and Robson tried to extract a settlement from the estate with zero publicity. Only when the estate refused to pay a bean did he go public.

I could continue, but if you’re still on board with the TV show and its accusers at this point, you are irrational to the point of mania.

This ‘documentary’ covers up all of this information, instead presenting two professional actors’ heavily edited and completely unchallenged testimony without ever examining their credibility, their proven lies and perjury, their constantly changing stories or their financial motives.
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Who wrote this? Is some of it from the estates lawsuit letter?
 
There's a rebuttal documentary being made? If that's true then who's making it?
 
Guys, keep spreading the truth. It's working. The public is already beginning to turn on Leaving Neverland.

A popular YouTube personality recently put out the following tweet about the film. Check out the replies. People aren't having it.

https://twitter.com/h3h3productions/status/1103102233787359232

Edit: And notice the lack of MJ avatars in those replies. These aren't hardcore Jackson fans pushing back.
 
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If you are feeling defeated or overwhelmed it’s best to just take a few days break from this craziness. This has been a very hard past few weeks for me as well. I’ve been prepping myself for the fallout. The minute I heard news of this documentary I knew it would shake everybody up especially in the MeToo movement . Everyone has heightened emotions and reacts from emotion and not logic. Give everyone time to simmer down.

The facts clearly support that these two men are not being forthcoming. Way too many red flags. Try to not give up on Michael Jackson , his music is the best pop music ever made and his influence in pop culture is unparalleled. While he was very controversial I refuse to be told by media outlets that I can’t listen to his music anymore. Innocent until proven guilty, that’s how our court system works. The world is hearing only from the prosecution in this instance with no defense. No wonder why every one is up in hysterics. It’s graphic and at times very believable. We just focus on the real facts though and rise above the drama and headlines.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Guys, do you agree that the estate should communicate a little with us? I don't expect them to tell us about legal matters but surely they are aware of what a shitstorm it has been this week, even if it did FLOP for HBO. A little communication goes a long way.

I really wonder what happens next. This can't be it, we've no idea when this rebuttal doc will even come out (one really should have been ready as soon as this filth aired) but have the estate no ground to sue on at all? Except for what they are already suing them for. But something HAS to be done about these three liars, disgusting pieces of human waste.
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Yes I do, the estate have been nothing more than shameful during this whole thing. Partly why i'm having doubts cause A they haven't released anything, B the fans have had to do all the defending. Does that really paint a good picture of them? No.
 
I'm following the Twitter hashtag and majority of people are not buying it. And I'm not just talking Michael fans, but lots of comments from casual watchers. I do think it's nauseating how there's barely been any action by the Estate so far to counteract the claims, but at the same time we really shouldn't write the general public off just yet.
 
travis3000;4246381 said:
If you are feeling defeated or overwhelmed it’s best to just take a few days break from this craziness.
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If you're feeling defeated, just know that this will blow over. It's only been a few days since the HBO showing and already people are starting to side-eye Dan Reed and the allegations.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Guys, do you agree that the estate should communicate a little with us? I don't expect them to tell us about legal matters but surely they are aware of what a shitstorm it has been this week, even if it did FLOP for HBO. A little communication goes a long way.

I really wonder what happens next. This can't be it, we've no idea when this rebuttal doc will even come out (one really should have been ready as soon as this filth aired) but have the estate no ground to sue on at all? Except for what they are already suing them for. But something HAS to be done about these three liars, disgusting pieces of human waste.
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Lies run sprints but the truth runs marathons.
The estate will be doing all kinds of work behind the scenes on this. There's no point in rushing things just to placate the fans. They've gotta be smarter than that, weigh up all their options and be strategic about this. Anyway, these guys are making themselves less and less credible by the day, the estate can just sit back for now and wait for the right moment to hit back. Which they will.

The most important thing is to make sure that appeal of their's goes nowhere to make sure they don't get a penny. That should be the estate's main goal.
 
analogue said:
There's a rebuttal documentary being made? If that's true then who's making it?
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Well I know Taj was trying to raise money to get one made but I don't think he's raised much so far. The estate should help him out financially.

A rebuttal documentary is the only hope of turning this around but it has to be very professional and well done.

I really think Spike Lee is the best person for this though. He's just the kind of director that is needed for something like this (that is if he still supports Michael because who knows at this point).
 
Yall keep your head up. what we are doing is working. Here today, MJ music palying on all stations. In fact, it is playing a little more. I think when we hear this stuff it is more media bias than the overall public. There method did not work nd many folks know the media is BS. And Oprah can say what she wants, she know she took a hit hard in what she did. Wait until all the truth about these liars start coming out because u know they are going to be watch in what they do, people who listen to these fools are going to look even worst.
 
Cinnamon234 said:
Well I know Taj was trying to raise money to get one made but I don't think he's raised much so far. The estate should help him out financially.

A rebuttal documentary is the only hope of turning this around but it has to be very professional and well done.

I really think Spike Lee is the best person for this though. He's just the kind of director that is needed for something like this (that is if he still supports Michael because who knows at this point).
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Give it time. It maybe going on as we speak. This doc just came out this week and many wanted time to see it in order to know what they are fighting up against.
 
Nonoka said:
I'm following the Twitter hashtag and majority of people are not buying it. And I'm not just talking Michael fans, but lots of comments from casual watchers. I do think it's nauseating how there's barely been any action by the Estate so far to counteract the claims, but at the same time we really shouldn't write the general public off just yet.
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And as time goes on, it is going to be more reveal.
 
Calisto said:
If you're feeling defeated, just know that this will blow over. It's only been a few days since the HBO showing and already people are starting to side-eye Dan Reed and the allegations.
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I agree. I have been through this in 1993 and 2005, this will get better. I facebook people about the hawaii foundation Wade had and people were like (WTF) even one who was on the fence and said it was hard to believe these guys aint getting no money.
 
terrell said:
I agree. I have been through this in 1993 and 2005, this will get better. I facebook people about the hawaii foundation Wade had and people were like (WTF) even one who was on the fence and said it was hard to believe these guys aint getting no money.
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Thanks to sites like Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube, the media no longer has full control of the narrative. Oprah Winfrey and the like can try to spread all the FUD they want, but the public now has the tools to call them out on it with actual receipts.
 
CrazyVegasMJ;4246368 said:
When did James state that MJ never talked to him again after he hit puberty? Did he say that in the doc? I might’ve missed it
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in the lawsuit said that when he grew up his hotel nights and sexual things ended and his relationship of friendship and visits were spaced out in time. he says that Michael and him were together only like Friends without sex when he was already a teenager ( in the photo of the tour with Lisa was a of the last times that were seen ) . in the demand account tells that michael call him sometimes to "make sure" that he remained loyal to him. the relationship of friendship ended in 97 when he was 19, but the sexual ended before in his 14-15 .then nothing until 2003-2005 when supposedly Michael called him several times personally to know that everything was going well and to make sure that james would not speak against him.
this comes out in the legal documents
 
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Scream said:
Lies run sprints but the truth runs marathons.
The estate will be doing all kinds of work behind the scenes on this. There's no point in rushing things just to placate the fans. They've gotta be smarter than that, weigh up all their options and be strategic about this. Anyway, these guys are making themselves less and less credible by the day, the estate can just sit back for now and wait for the right moment to hit back. Which they will.

The most important thing is to make sure that appeal of their's goes nowhere to make sure they don't get a penny. That should be the estate's main goal.
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Yeah you're right about that my friend. I should be more patient but sometimes,especially this week it has been so hard to remain patient. With their appeal you mean that they still need to pay the estate, right? What could make the court decide that Robson and Safechuck don't have to pay anymore?

Also, true, I don't know about Wade and James, but Dan Reed sure didn't like to be interviewed that way by Piers Morgan today. There should be many many more journalists grilling this fool like that. Actual questions that matter.

Cinnamon234 said:
Well I know Taj was trying to raise money to get one made but I don't think he's raised much so far. The estate should help him out financially.

A rebuttal documentary is the only hope of turning this around but it has to be very professional and well done.

I really think Spike Lee is the best person for this though. He's just the kind of director that is needed for something like this (that is if he still supports Michael because who knows at this point).
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That's exactly the whole thing now. It wouldn't surprise me if some high name celebrities right now are in full favor of Michael but just are afraid to speak out in fear of extreme backlash from their fans. Especially with this MeToo movement and way of thinking.

Look at Corey Feldman, his first tweets in full caps was great and his responses to other people on Twitter too, some really good stuff there. Then he goes on TV and becomes all PC. Shame!

terrell said:
Give it time. It maybe going on as we speak. This doc just came out this week and many wanted time to see it in order to know what they are fighting up against.
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Yeah, let's do that. I really hope you are right and that in due time these three disgusting men will get theirs. If there's actual justice these three punks will answer for their crimes. Because that's what this is.
 
Gone are the days when the media thought they controlled the people's minds, the "doc" has been slaughtered all over Twitter, Facebook and comment sections, the press want the clicks and revenue of a guilty narative, we don't need Oprah to tell us what to think, he have our own sources now. The Estate will take there time and come back with they're own PR that wipes the floor with this shit
 
Twitter is very encouraging actually. More people defending him than believing the mockumentary.
 
Calisto said:
Thanks to sites like Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube, the media no longer has full control of the narrative. Oprah Winfrey and the like can try to spread all the FUD they want, but the public now has the tools to call them out on it with actual receipts.
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And now a days trust for the mainstream media is at an all time low
 
Guys, I did several Google searches on Michael Jackson Safechuck This is It and so on, but all the results I get are how Safechuck is doing now and all that bla bla.

We have no real proof that he promoted This is it? Nothing in the credits?
 
The 90's were rough, but nothing will ever be as bad as 2005.

I can still vividly remember seeing the newspaper headlines about Michael having a "secret pedo dungeon" in Neverland and other nonsense. It was horrific. That very unflattering mugshot was everywhere too. Makes me wanna cry just thinking about it tbh.
 
Gloria Alred on TMZ "This is a significant stain on his legacy". "I love his music too, but if he is a predator there has to be consequences". "His conduct fits the profile of a sexual predator"....
smfh. Yeah, he was so guilty in '93 that you left the prosecution almost immediately after you said how Jordan and Evan would be willing to testify in court under oath. (Obviously that wasnt part of Evans plan for extortion)
 
Just saw another article that apparently radio stations worldwide are pulling his music. Isn't this hyperbole? Weren't it just a few stations right now?

And it's impossible for anyone to know, but still, what are the dangers of this spreading to streaming services too? I would imagine very slim, because R Kelly, where there's actual evidence against, his music is fully available on Spotify.
 
Scream said:
The 90's were rough, but nothing will ever be as bad as 2005.

I can still vividly remember seeing the newspaper headlines about Michael having a "secret pedo dungeon" in Neverland and other nonsense. It was horrific. That very unflattering mugshot was everywhere too. Makes me wanna cry just thinking about it tbh.
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True. me, myself and three other kids (not really kids then) were the only MJ fans in my school back then and holy hell. It was a living nightmare. Thinking back, the fortitude that we had was unheard of coming from young kids back then. Even our families were targeted, we were ostraziced, they even made fun of our appearance. Everything was fair play. The principal had to tell some of the kids to leave us alone. That's how bad it was.
 
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